Author Topic: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2  (Read 774963 times)

salan

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4000 on: November 28, 2012, 05:45:24 PM »
         
This is the place to talk about the works of fiction you are reading, whether they are new or old, and share your own opinions and reviews with interested readers.

Every week the new bestseller lists come out brimming with enticing looking books and rave reviews. How to choose?


Discussion Leader:  Judy Laird



This seems like a discussion that needs to be in the Women's Issues discussion group....
Sally

JeanneP

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  • Sept 2013
Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4001 on: November 28, 2012, 07:51:45 PM »
Guess we did say to much.  Sometimes we do get carried away when in forums at times. I bet we could write a Best Seller Mary.

rosemarykaye

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4002 on: November 29, 2012, 03:27:27 AM »
I saw the Hannukah heading and wondered if anyone on here could explain to me what happens during this time?  We have virtually no Jewish population in this area, so I am horribly ignorant apart from what I see on TV occasionally.  I find these festivals very interesting.

Rosemary

Steph

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4003 on: November 29, 2012, 06:09:18 AM »
I knew and know a lot of jewish.. The word means Festival of the Lights.. They light candles for a period of days. Commemorates something that happened in the temple.. It is a light hoiday and they sometimes give presents.. Dreidels ( like  a top) and gelt.. Gold coins(chocolate)
Stephanie and assorted corgi

Babi

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4004 on: November 29, 2012, 09:08:19 AM »
 My ex-DIL and my grandchildren are Jewish, ROSEMARY, and I have had the pleasure of
attending both a 'bat mitzvah' (boys) and a 'bar mitzvah' (girls) and of course attend a
sabbath service.  Here is a link that explains Hannukah (or Channukah) beautifully.

http://www.history.com/topics/hanukkah
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

jane

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4005 on: November 29, 2012, 09:18:48 AM »
Quote
both a 'bat mitzvah' (boys) and a 'bar mitzvah' (girls)  

I think those got twisted around above.

It's my understanding that the  bar mitzvah is for boys; bat mitzvah for the girls???

There's a nice explanation, Rosemary, of these "coming of age" ceremonies here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_and_Bat_Mitzvah

MaryPage

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4006 on: November 29, 2012, 12:06:55 PM »
It is a celebration of the part of Jewish History in the Old Testament of the Bible about the Maccabees.  The books in the original Christian Bible are still in the Roman Catholic Bible, but were thrown out when the Protestants came along.  I have no idea why.

So get hold of a Catholic version of the Bible and you can read First and Second Maccabees.  The part I remember most vividly, and perhaps some women with delicate stomachs insisted these books be deleted from Holy Scripture for this reason, was when the enemy prepared large frying pans and proceeded one by one to cut up and fry the Maccabee sons right in front of their mother.

Well, I was a teenager back when I read that, and now I'm 83 and have not read it since.  Hope I was wrong, but quite truthfully, that is what I remember.

I have read the Bible all the way through from start to finish, including ALL of the original books, and I will tell you this:  it is definitely not non-violent.

JeanneP

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  • Sept 2013
Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4007 on: November 29, 2012, 07:57:26 PM »
Mary.

Now I have not read anything like that about the Maccabees. Going to have to research and read it.
My children and Grands always had Jewish friends and when little they would get lots on Christmas day but would mention to us that their little friends got presents every day for 8  days during Channukah and was that fair.  Kids for you. I Told them I would be happy to just hand them their at one a day if they wanted.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4008 on: November 29, 2012, 08:06:02 PM »
 :D probably it would have allowed them more time to appreciate each present - as long as ALLL the clothes came first...  ;)
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4009 on: November 30, 2012, 05:49:38 AM »
especially the sox and underwear ;D
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Babi

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4011 on: November 30, 2012, 08:58:45 AM »
 You're right, JANE. Actually, I caught that immediately and corrected it, but then had
trouble posting and wound up locating and posting the original. So exasperated by then I
didn't notice it was the uncorrected one. (I haven't a clue what I hit to create all that
mess.)

  My impression has always been that the Protestant biblical scholars felt the deleted books
were of questionable accuracy or authenticity.  Maccabees, of course, were not the only
books dropped. And no, it is not non-violent. The Old Testament histories definitely 'tell
it like it is'. ( Or was.) Though I've read about the Maccabees,  I haven't read the originals.
Glad now I didn't. 
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

marjifay

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4012 on: November 30, 2012, 09:55:26 AM »
How awful, that story in Maccabees.  I'd never read that book.

As they were being fried, one of them said "The Lord God is watching over us."  Sure he was.  Just as he watched over those who went up in smoke in Hitler's ovens.  (Pardon my atheist view of this.)

Interesting that the Jews then believed that God would resurrect them to life.  Back on earth?  Wonder if they still believe that today.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

MaryPage

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4013 on: November 30, 2012, 12:25:31 PM »
The history of religious beliefs is a fascinating one when set out as it has actually unfolded, as opposed to being set out by any one religion which wants you to think their way and only their way and believe there is not now nor ever has been another way.

But yes, when, hundreds of years after the death of Jesus, the original Bible was put together and agreed upon, there had been a Holy Bible for a very long time.  The conference threw out a lot of the canon, including many, many gospels, at that time.

Then when the Eastern Orthodox split from the Roman Catholics, there were more changes.

And the Reformation brought about still more.

I believe there is a difference of more than 20 books.  Nothing stays the same.  Everything changes.  We do have a propensity for preferring to believe that everything stays the same.  I know I do!  But it just ain't so.

Steph

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4014 on: December 01, 2012, 05:49:49 AM »
Back in my late 20's, I got interested in the bible and religon in general. Mostly because of Viet Nam.. actually.. I converted after a year or so of searching to Quaker.. Still am,, but I did examine a lot of things about the bible.. The translations still are causing problems for many.. Scholars look at various points and can show you how they divirge.. Never read Maccabees, but did hear of them.. Very blood thirsty, the old Testament, but then it was put together by people trying to scare all others.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

JeanneP

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4015 on: December 01, 2012, 01:11:52 PM »
I don't think that people were anymore blood thirsty back then than what some are like today.  Look at the horrible things we have read and seen having gone on in just the last 75 years all over the world.  Many things we have not read or been told about.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4016 on: December 01, 2012, 04:39:01 PM »
The difference I think is the current stories of horror are not written up in what we were educated to call "The Good Book" and used to eek out some truth that was supposed to aid us to direct our 'good' behavior. I am a  believer but I do have lots of issues with the Bible.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4017 on: December 02, 2012, 06:19:46 AM »
I am still reading Star Island by Hiassen.. He is getting grimmer as he ages.. His take on what is happening on Miami Beach because of all the rock stars, etc hanging out is sad.. I know he pushes facts, but this has the ring of quite a lot of truth.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

Babi

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4018 on: December 02, 2012, 09:08:20 AM »
BARB, I particularly have issues with what some have done to the Bible. Like adding the
Jewish bible as our 'Old Testament' and then changing it about to suit ourselves. Adding
it was a great idea; it is the root of the Christian faith. Changing it has led to a
great many errors, IMO.

 I am reading my first Hiaasen and really enjoying it, STEPH.  It's one of the earlier ones; I
might not appreciate the later ones if they get too 'grim'.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Frybabe

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4019 on: December 02, 2012, 10:31:32 AM »
I grew up with the King James bible. Then I read somewhere that King James did a cut and paste job on an earlier bible to make this one. Hmmmmm! I am aware that some books were discarded for being suspected or proven fakes, but others were removed by authorities as being considered irrelevant or because of political motivations (my opinion, at any rate). So, do we truly know how much of today's version(s) are closest to Christ's teachings?

MaryPage

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4020 on: December 02, 2012, 12:56:23 PM »
King James himself only asked for and approved the King James version.  He did no work on it.  It was the output of a committee of some 47 men, give or take.  King James did not serve on the committee.

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html

JoanK

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4021 on: December 02, 2012, 03:11:44 PM »
I always loves the King james Bible. Always thought the music of its language was due to the English of the time of shakespeare, until I learned Hebrew. No. The music is in the original.

Frybabe

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4022 on: December 02, 2012, 04:30:12 PM »
Ah, then somewhere along the line I was fed a line about King James and his bible.

JeanneP

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4023 on: December 02, 2012, 07:44:16 PM »
I am enjoying reading " The good wife strikes back" by the English author Elizabeth buchan. Second book I have read of hers. She is good. Checked but I don't see the library having any more.  Maybe Rosemary will know of her and give us some titles.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4024 on: December 02, 2012, 08:02:24 PM »
No you are correct Frybabe - there is a book all about it - God's Secretaries by Nicolson I believe is the author - along with so much written in various books about how the Bible was altered just in the hand copying and how there are some parables in the bible that were added along the margins by monks copying the text . Later texts included these parables as if part of the original - Some bibles have pages repeated and others have pages never copied.

There are collections of Bibles from the dark ages and the Medieval time that are used as comparisons -  When the canon of the Bible was determined no Bibles written by women could be included - Bibles in the first century was a genera as today we have literature and science and history etc. the Bible was a genera -

And the big one - the raging quarrel was if Jesus was God or Man or both - most heretics were so labeled because they came down on one side or the other rather than Jesus being both God and Man pushed by the Roman Catholics - that was the basics of the schism between the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Church. This battle was included in every council of Bishops since Council of Chalcedon in 451 and not fully settled as dogma till The Council of Trent in 1545

Many of the early 'Christian' Bibles came down on one side or the other - as did the Gnostic Bible and therefore not included in the canon - the choices are neatly explained by the Church (until you take Bible History) as various Bible Books fell out of favor and therefore, were not included - also, there was a rule that the new Testament Bibles had to be written by someone who knew Jesus or heard the stories directly from someone who knew Jesus - they really do not know who wrote Matthew, Mark and Luke - they chose the names so to fit the rules set up - they do not include John in that group but then John wrote some 70 years after the death of Jesus.

Then a few professors today bring to our attention that the first of the New Testament was written two years after the Romans sacked Jerusalem destroying to the ground the major temple in Jerusalem - they liken that to someone, a native of NY writing 2 years after 9/11 and the kind of message they could share.

And then, church history shows how over and over as various areas were converted, often by the leadership or the ruler, the church became entwined with local customs, attitudes toward women, their pagan beliefs. Therefore, when a Bible was translated the mind set of the translator had a colloquial slant that they see various choice of words during the translation were not the best in order to be true to the original but rather, reflected the view of the story or what was considered Christian by those doing the translating.

Many many books on all of this not written by crack pots but distinguished scholars, priests, ministers, and respected collage professors - The Teaching Company alone has several college level courses on the Bible both New and Old, and every aspect of Church history seems to have a series of at least 21 lectures available.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4025 on: December 02, 2012, 09:00:45 PM »
No one knows when Jesus of Nazareth was born, or where.  The tax thing, according to historians (I am not one, I just read a lot about what they have to say), was made up to explain their birth story. 

I believe in the historical Jesus,  but understand how those gospels that made the final cut added on a lot of stuff the Church wanted.  In particular, they wanted a birth story in order to paste it over the "pagan" celebrations at the end of the year.  Thus we have Christmas, or Christ Mass;  a time when, originally, only the Birth was celebrated.  There was no gift giving except to the Church.

I took a course in Astronomy years ago that turned out to be fun at Christmas time.  Our professor had light scenes of date palms and camels and Wise Men up against the sides of the planetarium.  He showed us the probable position of some planets that could, from certain places, look like an extra big star.  He said the nearest time for this was something like 4 years before (or did he say after?) the time the Church fixed on for Jesus's birth, and that the month would more likely be March.

I had a beloved first cousin who was an Episcopalian priest.  This was a poem she sent me one Christmas:

I will put it down below in order to do justice to it:

MaryPage

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4026 on: December 02, 2012, 09:08:06 PM »
REBIRTH

When she met with the others
They talked about their sons
John was doing well in trade
And had three children, the
Oldest, ready for bar mitzvah!
David had settled down at last
And married a nice girl, Miriam
A babe was on its way.
They never asked about her son
But she knew they knew
No wife, no child, no work
Just wandering, long haired
And barefoot with a ragged
Crew, talking wildly, people said.
And he had shown such promise as
A boy!  She heard their thoughts.
Finally, she stopped meeting them.
Alone, she could reach deep into
Herself, and remember all those
Things she had kept, and pondered
In her heart.  Then, as on that
Starry night, Fairh was reborn.

Margaret H. Bacon
The Christian Century

Steph

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4027 on: December 03, 2012, 05:51:47 AM »
I am readying Laura Lippman's..What the Dead Knew.. Her stand alone books are always good, but always darker than Tess.. This one is a puzzle. I am 2/3 through and still not quite sure who is who and why.. Now the Mother has been found and is returning from Mexico. Will she automatically recognize her adult child?? That is an interesting question..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

Babi

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4028 on: December 03, 2012, 09:31:38 AM »
  I have one of the Catriona McPherson books that ROSEMARY recommended.  "Bury Her Deep".
 I think I am enjoying the background people, customs and mores even more than the story.
 The rural women's club reminds me so strongly of why I was never a 'joiner'.  My experience
with clubs was mostly tedium and the annoyance of watching rivals for leadership posture and
pose. 
  I know many of you have clubs that are a source of great enjoyment to you.  Please don't be offended, but just chalk my reaction up to what may be a selfish preference for peace and quiet.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

JeanneP

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4029 on: December 03, 2012, 02:57:35 PM »
I tried a couple of Book Clubs. On at the Library. Did not work out for me. Not my kind of books that they wanted. Also would give about 15 min. discussing books and then 45 min. on personal lives and things.
I think it may be my problem but I never have cared to join "Women's clubs". Joined Bowling clubs with women. Craft clubs. Walking clubs.  these worked out fine.  When it comes to clubs were have to vote on things. didn't work out

Frybabe

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4030 on: December 03, 2012, 03:30:38 PM »
"Women's clubs". Me neither JeanneP. My problem was that the local Women's Club I considered joining was all about their children and school. That's fine for them, but I didn't have children.

The one knitting club I joined comprised of just a few women. We took turns at each other's houses and our dues went to a food basket for a needy family each Christmas.

All in all, I am not much of a joiner. So, aren't you all fortunate I am here.  ;D

Not reading any general fiction right now; still on a major SciFi kick.

JoanK

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4031 on: December 03, 2012, 04:45:00 PM »
 :D

rosemarykaye

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4032 on: December 04, 2012, 04:34:50 AM »
I struggle with most clubs.

I recently went to one meeting of the local 'rurals' (Scottish Women's Rural Institute) because they had an author speaking whom I wanted to hear.  He was great, but of course they then tried to persuade me to come to their other meetings.  I was dragged along to one (they even turned up at my door to give me a lift - very kind I know but I do have a car!), but I'm afraid it's not for me - I don't mean this the way it will probably sound, but all of the ladies were not only much, much older than I am, they also didn't seem to have many interests other than meeting up for a cup of tea and a biscuit.  I do appreciate that there is no reason why they shouldn't do so, and I'm sure the group serves a good purpose, but it's not for me (not yet, anyway...)

I'm also not 100% thrilled with the new book group at the library, so I'm not sure how long I'll stick with that.

Still doing the local craft centre committee and the Rotary, but at least they're both doing something constructive.  I think I much prefer discussing books on-line here, as then we can all choose what we do and don't want to read, and this group also has such a wealth of intelligent, entertaining, well-read contributors.

Off soap box now!

Rosemary

Steph

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4033 on: December 04, 2012, 05:57:37 AM »
Actually our local womans club is interesting // They take on any of the community problems. We support many local charities and get very involved. We have women supporting Camp Boggy Creek( summer campe for children with diseases), Canine Companions for Independence ( training dogs for assistance ). Woman who do snacks for the symphony...others who collect box tops,,pop tops, etc.. We all bring food each month that is given to the local food banks.. We are adopting 18 people in a rehab center for christmas, who seem to have no families. You name it, we do it.. so no, we really dont just sit around and do tea.. althought once a month , we meet and actually do have tea and a cookie or two, while making pitches for our favorite charity. You are required to help with at least two different projects a year and there are so many things. This Christmas we are also supporting Wreaths Across America, since we live close to a national cemetary. We will send a group on the 15th for the wreath laying cemetary..Not on a soap box. I spent my married life never joining clubs except for sailing ones, but after his death, I have learned to look at clubs. They help with the isolation.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

marjifay

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4034 on: December 04, 2012, 08:28:31 AM »
I'm not a joiner, either.  But if our local senior citizen's group would get up a bridge club, I might join that.  I keep meaning to ask them why they don't have such a group, as they have just about everything else.

And, yes, Frybabe, we're very glad to have you here!

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

Babi

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4035 on: December 04, 2012, 08:43:27 AM »
So it's a real club! The SWRI is the club featured in the McPherson book I'm reading.
It is in a rural area, so most of the ladies are from the surrounding farms. Their
featured programs included 'how to pluck a chicken' (both young ones and old), crochet
and a jam competition.  On one occasion they invited a visiting minister's wife to give a
lecture. Apparently it caused a great scandal, and so far no one will talk about what it was!
Surely the author will tell eventually.  She couldn't just leave us dangling! ???

  Now that's the kind of club that interests me, STEPH.  At least, back when I could do anything
energetic for more than 15 minutes.  They are actually accomplishing worthwhile things.
I very much enjoyed playing bridge at the senior's center, but the number of players gradually
dwindled away.   
 
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

marjifay

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4036 on: December 04, 2012, 08:57:28 AM »
I just finished SWEET TOOTH, the latest book by Ian McEwen, one of my favorite authors.  Somewhat different from his previous books, but has a nice surprising twist.  Has anyone read it?

In the book McEwen has as the background England during the 1970s which I didn't know much about, but am going to read more about that era.  In his bibliography, he gives a couple of books, I've put on my list:  WHEN THE LIGHTS WENT OUT; BRITAIN IN THE SEVENTIES by Andy Beckett, and STATE OF EMERGENCY; THE WAY WE WERE, BRITAIN 1970-1974 by Dominic Sandbrook.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

JeanneP

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  • Sept 2013
Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4037 on: December 04, 2012, 05:37:55 PM »
That must be us. We are just not joiners.  I never was. Even in School there were 3 of us together and we never joined any of the clubs. We were on the Netball team and field hockey together but then left on our own.
I have met over time about 5 women who I have thought we would get along good in a little Women's club just us together.
Now Senior Centres.  Sorry. doesn't work for me there either.  Use to take a day trip once in awhile with it and they were O.K.

pedln

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4038 on: December 04, 2012, 08:34:00 PM »
Well, there are clubs and then there are other clubs.  I love the forums here on SeniorLearn because I hear every word you say (unless it's on you-tube  :D ).  ANd my f2f book club here is good -- we call ourselves a Mystery Club, but anything goes, really.  We don't vote -- everyone suggests a book they've liked, and the one who suggests a title leads the discussion for that month  They're good about passing around my little transmitter when they're going to speak.  Love my bridge clubs, now would like to find a group that plays Settlers of Catan, a favorite family board game, but can't find anyone here who's interested.  I don't go to the Senior Center although two of my best friends do.  It's primarily for eating lunch and I would really be afraid that I might take someone's chair.  It's been known to happen.

I'm reading Tuscan Holiday by Holly Chamberlin.  Light and a bit predictable with a focus on mother-daughter relationships.  But it's also a great guidebook to the sights of Florence and Tuscany.

Steph

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Re: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2
« Reply #4039 on: December 05, 2012, 06:10:29 AM »
ah slow slow slow this am and then telling me I have not posted, then if I try to post that I already have. Sigh
My granddaughter at 17 asked for that Ian McEvan. Startled me, she also wanted the J.K. Rowling, so I got them for her for Christmas..
Stephanie and assorted corgi