Author Topic: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2 (Read 774956 times)

Tomereader1 · « **Reply #3920 on:** November 08, 2012, 11:46:44 AM »

This is the place to talk about the works of fiction you are reading, whether they are new or old, and share your own opinions and reviews with interested readers.

Every week the new bestseller lists come out brimming with enticing looking books and rave reviews. How to choose?

Discussion Leader: Judy Laird

Yes, rosemary, tell the police NOW. Did your daughter get any info off the license plate, or a better description of the van, i.e. markings, signs, dents, etc.?

Don't let this go by. If not your daughter, someone else could get hurt, as Babi mentioned.

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #3921 on:** November 08, 2012, 12:08:38 PM »

Unfortunately this happened in the summer, and no she didn't ge any details, but I have told her that if it happens again she needs to get the registration number, as I know from having contacted the police re traffic incidents in the past that they always say they can't do anything without a number plate. I just mentioned it here to highlight how even in this country women are harrassed and bothered every day. She sometimes gets men sitting next to her on the bus (this is at 4.30 in the afternoon, not in the middle of the night) saying 'can I take you home?' etc - bunch of creeps. She is a very shy 14 year old and the bus route is through a very respectable part of Edinburgh - lots of children from various Edinburgh schools use it daily. I think she has learned to ignore them or get up and move seats (if possible) but why should she be subject to this? People think Edinburgh is so smart and well-mannered, but it really is no different from anywhere else.

In another - not sexist related! - incident on the bus this week, a very strange person started tearing up pieces of paper and arranging them down the middle of the bus, then took out a lighter and was about to set fire to them when someone alerted the driver. The police were duly called. It all seems to happen on that bus!

Rosemary

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #3922 on:** November 08, 2012, 01:31:21 PM »

Deviant behavior only increases with each incident - therefore to stop something before someone really gets harmed and even though your complaint may be set aside as not critical it will be on the books so that if and when that person acts out they have a profile - yes, too bad the only solution is jail rather than getting them early so they can get help but as it is now we do know that deviant behavior especially sexual behavior only increases and escalates with each successful encounter.

So Rosemary even now, months later it would be wise to stop into a police station and share at the desk your daughter's experience. They may be trained to only take complaints that can be written up but you can look them in the eye and remind them how they would feel if it were their daughter.

MaryPage · « **Reply #3923 on:** November 08, 2012, 03:58:01 PM »

I agree. Rosemary, even if you can only tell them something like: "A white male, not a teen ager, but younger than my dad, and in a white van, approximately such and such a time on such and such a street," that might dovetail with other information they have from ANOTHER complaint and be of help to them. Maybe your daughter remembers even more details than I have illustrated here.

JoanK · « **Reply #3924 on:** November 08, 2012, 09:33:01 PM »

Your daughter was wise to see to her safety, rather than stop to get the number. Only AFTER she is safe, should she thinik of that.

Steph · « **Reply #3925 on:** November 09, 2012, 06:03:15 AM »

It is sad.. My sons when they were young had infinite freedom all summer and holidays.. Now it seems you cannot pick up a paper without finding someone acting out and causing problems for others.. I know my granddaughter walks to her bus stop in the dark on streets with no sidewalks.. Her Dad is in law enforcement, so he has taught her how to protect herself, but I know she tries hard to find a ride first..

Frybabe · « **Reply #3926 on:** November 09, 2012, 07:08:39 AM »

Times do seem to have changed, haven't they? I remember ranging all over my town and into the woods, and the neighbors often left doors unlocked never thinking or fearing to be burgled. So, the question is, was this always going on but not reported in the papers or not reported so far afield as today. Fast and very widespread communications have changed perceptions of the frequency of incidents, but have the incidents themselves increased along with the more widespread reporting of such? I think too, there is a change in how people react to and what people consider unacceptable behavior, especially with regard to verbal and physical attacks on women and children.

Babi · « **Reply #3927 on:** November 09, 2012, 09:18:21 AM »

The Weird Bus....there's a story there somewhere, ROSEMARY. I do hope your daughter
doesn't have that experience again, but at least she will know to try and get the
registration number (I assume that's the same as our 'license plate') if it did.
I had a similar experience when I was about the same age. My parents decided, as a sign
that I was growing up, to allow me to go downtown alone on an occasional Saturday, eat out
(Coney Island, always!) and attend a matinee. That was lovely, right up until the day this
scroungy, dirty little man sidled up next to me as I was wallking down the street, and
muttered something to me. I didn't make out the words, but the intent was plain enough. I
quickly hurried on, but that took the fun out of the Saturday matinees. Didn't go again.

I assume such things did happen when we were young, FRYBABE, but surely not to the extent that they do today. From various things I've read, I gather that the increasing population with such crowded conditions, more homeless or alienated on the streets, etc., etc., that people do tend to become more callous and the world more dangerous.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #3928 on:** November 09, 2012, 11:40:19 AM »

Yes, but we did have the homeless and alienated - hobos abound in the 1930s and I am remembering how frequently drunks weaved along often holding up their pants that would slip and some using rope as a belt - during the 40s there were few men around and everyone was needed but then the men that were still here often felt disenfranchised not up to army standards so that each decade had the reasons we used to try to explain what has still not been really understood well enough to create a so called cure or an approach that works.

Recently saw a re-run of Private Practice when they were tackling the mental health of a pedophile while two of the doctors, on women and one man were both sexually abused when they were kids as the patient was but they too questioned how come some, like themselves wanted to do everything they could to protect kids from a similar experience where as others only acted out the abuse as if to relive and take control that they were unable to do when they were kids - with that show it was easy to see there is so much not understood and it is too easy for us to blame one issue or influence or impulse because we want some rational explanation.

So far we do know a few things and we can act upon what we do know - my biggest concern is we still prefer to keep this in the dark and not train kids who we think should be kept innocent as long as possible when what we are doing is keeping them ignorant and unprepared to take care of themselves. And then the challenge becomes how to prepare them without scaring them - just not enough ready available child rearing information on this topic.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #3929 on:** November 09, 2012, 02:01:27 PM »

Have you ever read a book where you couldn't decide if you liked it or not?

I'm reading A Woman's Place by Lynn Austin which is about four women who go to work in the ship building industry during WWII in Michigan. I'm enjoying the story of their lives, but I'm finding that in each situation that comes up they behave in what i would call a caricatured way. Nothing about the character's behaviors is surprising. There's the 50ish school teacher who quit her job to take care of her dying parents and then inherits a boatload of money. She's rigid, always remains "the teacher" w/ everyone she meets; there's the middle-class "doormat" who is discovering that nobody in her family has any appreciation of her housework; there's the Italian young woman from Brooklyn who has quickly married a sailor from Michigan and gone to live w/ his parents while he goes to war and, of course, his strict, religious parents are appalled at her behavior and she is bored to death; and an 18 yr old woman who has 5 brothers in the war and is saving as much money as she can to go to college after the war.

There is the supervisor who had polio and therefore not drafted who feels inferior because he's not fighting. They are harrassed by the men in the shipyard, by husbands, by in-laws, not surprisingly.

I guess what is keeping me reading is that the characters are well written and all are growing in their lives.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #3930 on:** November 09, 2012, 03:01:15 PM »

Jean it could be because she was only born in 1961 and can only write about the social issues of the 40s from her history research which can be accurate but she cannot bring the subtleties of how this played out or anything that is not already documented.

Steph · « **Reply #3931 on:** November 10, 2012, 06:00:54 AM »

I used to love to hear stories from two of my aunts about what they did in the war. They were both single at the time..We did not have a defense plant where I grew up and one of them had worked in a hosiery mill.. which was taken over by the government..The other worked at a Libbys processing plant. In both cases, the government came in and life changed for them.. Male foremen were brought in and I remember how both of them resented this terribly.
I think that 24 hour news makes us more aware of things that happened.. I grew up in a small town however, lived sort of out in the country and never saw drunks on the street or understood homeless until I was an adult.

Babi · « **Reply #3932 on:** November 10, 2012, 09:39:19 AM »

Once a child is old enough to play outdoors without constant supervision, he/she needs some
basic rules...like, "Don't talk to strangers." "Don't take candy from a stranger." That kind
of instruction goes right along with simple rules like crossing a street safely. But I don't
think it's a good idea to frighten them with stories about what could happen to them. Such
images leave a lasting imprint that could be harmful, imo.

maryz · « **Reply #3933 on:** November 10, 2012, 10:26:36 AM »

John's finished and I'm in the middle of John Grisham's latest The Racketeer. We liked/are liking it very much.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #3934 on:** November 10, 2012, 01:23:19 PM »

Hesitated because I do not want to belabor the topic but it is so painful to think we continue to see what happens to kids as a stranger issue - as a result we only have too limited a direction for our kids and so we do not prepare them - we, even as grandparents do not prepare our precious ones how to handle the football couch, the baseball or softball or basketball, swimming, tennis couch - the Boyscout leader - the parish priest or minister - in some cases the teacher - the leader of the after school youth organization - their trusted neighbor - or their camp councilor.

JeanneP · « **Reply #3935 on:** November 10, 2012, 03:34:49 PM »

Rosemary.

I think that schools should go back to the way they did with us girls during the war. (Maybe not you). in England we had classes and taught what to look out for, what to do, how to do it if accosted by men. We had so many service men from all countries up in the North of England. (Very few English Men). Around us had two Prisoner of War Camps. German and Italian. Some were allowed outside the camps. Farms and such as street repairs used them.
Now it is worse in the world, I have traveled single a lot in lot of countries and always have I need to have some of that learning. Along with a nasty mouth it served me well. Seems that some girls her in US are not aware of how things could go wrong for them. We have a large University in my Town here and amazing how many Assaults, Rapes , attaches etc go on each week. Things the girls should have known to be aware of where they are

We have many place for them to go to after the effect but none to teach how to not get into the problem in the first place.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #3936 on:** November 10, 2012, 04:01:37 PM »

Jeanne it does not help to teach abstinence only in High School because that curriculum ignores all the issues of safety - my daughter digresses in her class but all she needs is one student going home and sharing what she is learning with a parent who does not like that kind of talk for her daughter then, my daughter would be fired. So she walks a tight rope but having had to face the issue she wants and therefore shares with girls more knowledge how to protect themselves. Most teachers will not risk it and parents seldom like to think of their daughter having to deal with sexual issues.

MaryPage · « **Reply #3937 on:** November 10, 2012, 04:08:01 PM »

I agree with you, Jeanne.

Barbara, I swear some folk today have downright medieval minds. I fully understand the threat to your daughter's job, as I have 2 daughters who teach, but I truly feel it behoves parents these days to let their children know, both boys and girls, what dangers await them right down the block.

Steph · « **Reply #3938 on:** November 11, 2012, 06:21:19 AM »

Found a quite different Jane Gardam.Flight of the Maidens. I think an early book for her. It is moving slowly just now, but it is three teen girls in England just after the war and their last summer before going off to college or life.. Interesting in the backgrounds. A different world for me..But possibly a normal world just after WWII in a small english town.

Babi · « **Reply #3939 on:** November 11, 2012, 09:02:06 AM »

You are quite right, BARB, and I didn't intend to convey the idea strangers were the only
danger. I was thinking more of what you tell the young pre-school age kids who are permitted
to play in the yard. Explanations regarding dangers, like everything else, progresses with
the age and readiness of the child.

I understood what you meant, STEPH, but couldn't help thinking it was hardly a 'normal' world for Britain after WWII. But since everyone would have been facing the same issues
and hardships I suppose the effect is the same.
I'm currently reading "The Hobbit" for the discussion which starts tomorrow, and enjoying
it even more the second time around. Have you ever read it? Such a delight.

JeanneP · « **Reply #3940 on:** November 11, 2012, 05:54:53 PM »

It took quite a few year after the war in UK ended before we saw any kind of Normalcy. I first left in the early 1950s and still had a ration card. Many things we could not buy and much was still rationed.
Bombed out areas still had not been cleaned up by 1955. UK was really into Bankruptcy . Many of the male workers never came back from the war. Factories were bringing people in from Europe such from Polish labour camps and displaced countries just to help working the factories again. They were the main stay of the North UK where I am from. Mostly Industrial.

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #3941 on:** November 12, 2012, 03:36:47 AM »

There were still many bomb sites in London when I was a teenager in the 1970s. Also many 'prefabs' - the little houses that were put up fast for displaced families, who then lived in them for years - in fact, one was featured in the episode of Call the Midwife when the cleaner's brother died & you see their home. People loved them - eventually they were of course all cleared away and replaced with much worse building.

In Barbara Pym's Excellent Women, Mildred goes to a Lenten service in a London church - it might even be St Paul's - which is still only half useable as the other half has been bombed, and she sees a woman sitting in the ruins boiling a kettle on a camping stove.

Rosemary

Steph · « **Reply #3942 on:** November 12, 2012, 06:01:33 AM »

Y es, in the late 70's, was my first visit to London.. We took a Thames boat up or down(?) to Greenwich..On the way, we saw miles of ruins that had not been cleared, but they are all gone now.. Not sure just when.
The book is interesting.. Some of it makes no sense, but I think it is mostly English customs in the late 40's.. One of the girls goes to a guest house somewhere that summer to read all of the great books that she has never seen.. She had gotten a scholarship to a university in London??
Another takes off on her bicycle with a boyfriend for an unknown youth hostel?? and the third who is a refugee from Germany ends up in London with a most peculiar couple who think they are adopting her..She is puzzled since she is 17 and has a scholarship at Cambridge..

pedln · « **Reply #3943 on:** November 12, 2012, 10:18:39 AM »

Babi, your comment about what we tell our very small children about the dangers that lurk outside their house reminds me of an incident here many years ago. Two little neighbor boys, about 3 or 4 years, were playing outside the home of one of them. Workmen were working on the driveway and in the back of the house. One of them wanted to back his truck out to the street and was getting very frustrated because he couldn't get both kids out of the way. He finally picked up little Jerry, plunked him in the passenger seat and backed out. Little Austin's nose was so out of joint he couldn't stand it, but he got his revenge --

"YOU RODE WITH STRANGERS, JERRY. SHAME ON YOU. YOU RODE WITH STRANGERS."

Rosemary, I'd suggest to your daughter that she take aisle seats when on the bus. Then when some creep makes unseemly comments, she can easily get up and alert the bus driver.

marjifay · « **Reply #3944 on:** November 12, 2012, 11:08:27 AM »

Just finished THE VIRGIN SUICIDES by Jeffrey Eugenides, after watching the film from it by Sofia Coppola. This is the first book I've read by Eugenides.

A somewhat strange but page-turning story. Fabulous writing! About five teenage girls from a suburban family who all commit suicide in one year. I believe it is based on a real story. Told from the viewpoint of some young boys who are fascinated by these lovely mysterious young women. Don't be put off by the subject matter, it's one of the best books I've read this year. Wow, can Eugenides write! It's a book I won't forget.

Marj

Steph · « **Reply #3945 on:** November 13, 2012, 08:46:16 AM »

Hmm, possibly will try it, although something of his, I hated.. Oh well.

Babi · « **Reply #3946 on:** November 13, 2012, 09:30:05 AM »

Wow, PEDLN, speaking of dangers, where was Mother? What are two little boys doing playing where workmen are working? What if that guy hadn't seen little Jerry before he backed out? Children that small need more than warnings; they need
supervision. Not much they can do about it if someone decides to simply pick them up and carry them off.
At least it's good to know they were listening to Mother.

jane · « **Reply #3947 on:** November 13, 2012, 09:44:07 AM »

Steph...I thought Middlesex was read here by Eugenides, but I had to go back to the pre2007 archives to find it.

http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/fiction/Middlesex.htm

I thought it'd gotten mixed "reviews" by the participants at that time.

jane

jeriron · « **Reply #3948 on:** November 13, 2012, 10:18:10 AM »

When my children were young and in school:

My next door neighbors were having work done on their house, The doors in our house was locked and I was about 5 minutes late getting home. They were waiting outside for me. One of the workers came over and used a screw driver (?) and unlocked the door for them so when I came home they were already inside. Besides the fact of how dangerous that was just for the kids but also how easy it was for anyone to get the door unlocked. Scary!

pedln · « **Reply #3949 on:** November 13, 2012, 10:27:36 AM »

Jeriron, sometimes when I look back, I wonder how the children ever made it to adulthood. The big dangers back then were climbing where they shouldn't, getting fingers caught in the door, and knocking teeth out.

jeriron · « **Reply #3950 on:** November 13, 2012, 01:06:36 PM »

Pedlin

Yes and I think it's sad that children can't go anyplace now. My teenagers rode their bikes to the beach. and were gone for hours. No cell phones then to get in touch with them either.

But then when I was I teen I took the train from the Bronx to Manhattan. Although I did have an incident on the train one time. Put me off from going again.

Steph · « **Reply #3951 on:** November 14, 2012, 05:50:18 AM »

I had a pony and then a horse and in the summers, packed a lunch, left in the morning and returned before supper. I lived in the country and although our road was paved, the cross roads were not.. Many farmers let me go across the fields if I was careful and Libbys ( thje canner) gave me permission to go all over their huge farm. It had ponds, woods, etc. I cannot imagine letting children have this sort of freedom now, but it was normal where I grew up..

pedln · « **Reply #3952 on:** November 14, 2012, 10:41:56 AM »

My Seattle daughter and family were in Virginia for her FIL's funeral, and then she was coming to be with post-surgical me, husband staying in VA, 16-year-old son flying back to Seattle. When she arrived, her first words were, "We missed our flights this morning. I have to check on Brian (16); I think he's in Philadelphia." Thank goodness for cell phones. Sure enough, he was in Philadelphia airport waiting for his flight. I don't know what's the magic age for travelling cross country on one's own.

maryz · « **Reply #3953 on:** November 14, 2012, 11:26:25 AM »

What surgery are you having, pedln? Hope all goes well. Keep us posted.

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #3954 on:** November 14, 2012, 01:31:49 PM »

The age for travelling unaccompanied varies with airlines - my friend's ex-husband took their 17 year old daughter, 13 year old son, and daughter's school friend, together with his own new partner and their small child, on holiday this summer to Corfu. Ex lives in Bulgaria, children all live in Scotland. On the day of their return, they were driving to the airport early in the morning in 2 cars. The plan was that the two girls and Andrew (13 yr old) would fly back to the UK and ex + his new family would fly back to Sofia, which was the procedure they had followed on the way there.

On the way to the airport, the new partner's car was involved in an accident - (luckily no-one was hurt) totally not her fault, but the local driver involved was very aggressive and the police had to be called and took ages to come. By the time they got to the airport they had missed their flight, which was with British Airways, the airline they had flown out with. Their father managed to book them onto an Easyjet flight BUT Easyjet's policy is that no child may fly unaccompanied, and the companion must be over 18. In the end their father had to buy himself a ticket and fly to Scotland with them, whilst partner & child returned to Bulgaria. Cost a small fortune.

Unaccompanied child travel is a minefield!

Rosemary

JeanneP · « **Reply #3955 on:** November 14, 2012, 07:16:23 PM »

I thought that a child could travel with permission of the Airline at the age of 12. Seems like I have seen them sitting in the front seats when traveling back and forth to England. They have a name tag on and a Steward would take them on and off and pass them to some airline official if they had to change flights. Very well taken care of.
First time my mother came over at age 62. First to Canada and then to US. She had never flown before and I sort of acted like she was a child and they were so good taking care of her. Got her right to me in Chicago. Would not do it these days.

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #3956 on:** November 15, 2012, 03:24:02 AM »

Jeanne - that is the case with most of the major airlines - you can have a child flying in the care of the cabin crew (though it's expensive & you pay extra per 'leg' of the trip), but the cheap airlines like Easyjet, Ryanair, etc do not take unaccompanied children at all, no matter what you pay. The difference between BA & Easyjet in this case was that BA accepted a 17 yr old sister as a suitable supervisor for a sensible 13 yr old boy, whereas Easyjet said she needed to be 18 and a legal adult to act in this capacity. I can sort of see their point, but it made a lot of trouble for my friend's ex - it was really the horrible (drunk) driver who started what I believe is now referred to as a 'cascade of events'.

Rosemary

Steph · « **Reply #3957 on:** November 15, 2012, 05:52:39 AM »

Things have changed.When my sons were young... 4th and 7th grade, they flew back and forth from Florida to NY to my mil's.. Nothing extra. We got to put them in their seats.. they got little wings, a trip to the cockpit and more attention than they wanted from the help.. They loved it..They went back and forth several times over the years.

JeanneP · « **Reply #3958 on:** November 15, 2012, 01:39:29 PM »

So many parent are now divorced and have visitation right even though they may live in different states. I knew a few couples who sent their children back and forth by air. Could now be that the Airlines do not want to be responsible for taking care of them. People are so ready to file a suit against anything and anybody these days and I do believe that one small child got lost in the shuttle awhile back.

pedln · « **Reply #3959 on:** November 15, 2012, 03:13:41 PM »

I just finished reading this NY TImes article. We've been talking about our kids and things that they did when young, and things that kids can't do now, and this article seems to fit right in.

What would you do if your child could not feel pain?

No Pain]

News:

Author Topic: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2 (Read 774956 times)