Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2

[Steph]

This is the place to talk about the works of fiction you are reading, whether they are new or old, and share your own opinions and reviews with interested readers. Every week the new bestseller lists come out brimming with enticing looking books and rave reviews. How to choose?

Discussion Leader:  Judy Laird

The Catskills used to have many Jewish resorts. We went to the Concord many years ago for a weekend.Very structured and busy. Am not sure they have that many any more, but the area around Miami used to be well known for its jewish retirement centers, again with all of the Cubans in that area, not sure how many of them are still around.

[ginny]

Rosemary, I would not, at this point anyway,  for my recommendation.

I'm just not that far into it yet and it may turn out as Jean described earlier. Oh  you would find the Catskill Resorts culture intriguing.  What memories i have of that huge Lakehouse in the tradition of the Catskill resorts!

You're right, Steph, the Concord!  Grossingers! There was another one I can't think of.  Grossingers was the biggest, (didn't Elizabeth Taylor have a honeymoon there?) The Concord the second in rank.  Tennannah Lake House was residential, not the glitz and glamor the other two showed. I couldn't remember any other names but somebody in the comments on the link below page did: Kutshers. We went there, too. Apparently it's the only one left!!  Tennannah Lakehouse is no more, it turned into an ashram,  of all things. But the way of life there was something to behold.

The Jane Austen in Boca is not about the Borscht Belt which is what Tennannah Lake House  was part of.

The Borscht Belt was a place of Jewish resorts where families would go for years and years and years and spend the summer, whole families, in the cool Catskills. Tremendously expensive. Comedians musicians singers would try out their routines there. Many famous acts would come there in the summer. Comedians would hone their improv acts. Famous golfers would play on the courses. In the Tennannah Lake House attics where the staff would be parked, this was in '64, the little room had no closet and rented out for $128 per day. That was a lot in those days for a dormer room with no closet.

 And many famous celebrities would also come in the summer.  And families would greet each other on the wide  porch as if they were next-door neighbors, and catch up with the children and grandchildren. It was something unique, I think.

I've seen many things at Grossinger's. I still don't see that word without remembering how it sounded: the second g is hard.  Gross in GRRRs.   At the Concord. And at Tennannah  Lake House, which was the least of, perhaps not even considered part,  of the three. No flash no glitz, nice mountain huge lodge and other new wing, lake, boating, etc.  There were more than 3 of these places, (In Edit: the link says there were 1,100!!! And the stats alone for Grossingers, in this link are astounding.)   I am very sad to see Grossingers abandoned  along with The Concord. I always thought one day I'd go back and stay as a guest at Tennannah Lake House, hahaha.  So sorry to see all that go.   I'm not sure what stopped the tradition,  probably airfare and Florida. It was owned by a Paley.  A brother of the famous family--remember Babe Paley of Truman Capote fame? The Tonight Show band or orchestra used to be there in the summer, i have no idea why, but they shared the same attic rooms. They were nice people as I recall, with somewhat odd habits, but I was 18.

I remember the cooks and Asian staff sitting out in the dark into the wee hours playing mah-jongg. It didn't look like any mah jongg I had ever seen.  

Here's a wonderful link to the abandoned resorts of the Catskill Mountains and I haven't had a chance to read it all, because I'm in the parking lot dictating this to Siri waiting for my grandson to come he left his book bag at home, But the article starts out absolutely accurately about what it was like.

http://www.terrastories.com/bearings/abandoned-catskills-hotels

[ginny]

Oh here we go, I've been spelling Tennannah wrong there's only one n in the 2nd syllable: Tennanah.

From: http://www.tennanah.com/tennanah_lake_history.html

   History of Tennanah Lake          
   

In 1858, Anthony Wolff purchased 180 acres of farmland near Long Pond in northwestern Sullivan County. Farming was a tough life, and like many farmers in the county, by the 1890's the Wolff family had begun taking in summer boarders to supplement their income.

These farmers-turned-inkeepers offered their summertime guests fresh milk and vegetables, clean spring water, and relief from the oppressive heat of the crowded city. As the new century dawned, several hundred farmhouses, boarding houses and small hotels offered accommodations for 23,000 tourists countywide. Sullivan County had entered into an era of economic prosperity based almost exclusively on this tourism industry: The Silver Age.

By 1907, Long Pond had become known as Tennanah Lake, the Wolffs had expanded the original farmhouse to accommodate 80 guests, and catering to these "vacationists", as they were known, supplementing their income with farming. But they still needed more room, and in 1910, Peter Wolff financed the construction of a magnificent new building that would serve as the center of the Tennanah Lake House as it continued to grow over the next few decades.

By this time it was no longer enough to offer guests fleeing the intense heat of the city shaded lawns and fresh food. So, shortly after the new building was completed, Wolff constructed a nine hole golf course for his guests. By 1935, the tourism industry in Sullivan County had changed - large, well-equipped and feature-laden hotels had replaced the farmhouses and boarding houses of the earlier era - and the Tennanah Lake House had changed, as well. With Sullivan County poised to enter into its Golden Age, the Wolff's 400 acre resort had expanded to accommodate 500, and offered "tennis, boating, baseball, fishing, horseback riding on 8 miles of bridle paths through virgin forests and motoring" in addition to golf. The Tennanah Lake House also boasted the largest hotel Bird Sanctuary in the world - comprising hundreds of birdhouses and thousands of birds of all varieties - and had its own theatre.

In 1952, the nine hole golf course was redesigned by the legendary Sam Snead and expanded to 18 holes. Six of the original nine holes were utilized in the design. Snead was in the midst of one of his most productive years, which produced five tournament wins, including his second Masters Championship.

The present course is very much the way Slammin' Sammy conceived it. It is one of just a handful of courses he designed, and it is the oldest golf course operating in Sullivan County today.

John Conway, Sullivan County Historian

For more on the history of the surrounding area, and all it has to offer Tennanah Lake Golf and Tennis Club guests, visit the Sullivan County Website.

Oh yes and Slammin' Sammy Snead, I saw him play, but at Grossingers. No hint of the Paleys, tho. Ah nostalgia.

Oh wow and I have found the actual house as it was in another book:



Thank you Rosemary for expressing interest, so I could indulge myself in this wonderful nostalgia.

PS: Here's another one to give you the idea of the size of these things. This one, the Sha Wan Ga Lodge,     was the first one to be owned by Jewish proprietors and to observe Dietary Laws. There is actually a lot of history here that I did not realize.  I had no idea of the antisemitism in the hotel industry in this country  before this era, but this link will take you to a book which describes everything in great detail: Catskill Hotels By Irwin Richman The photographs of people on the porches and so forth are fascinating, a slice out of history.

[Frybabe]

What a shame, Ginny. The indoor pool at Grossingers still looks fabulous in its decline. I can imagine what it looked like when it was at its height of popularity. Can't say that the dining room looked as charming though.

[rosemarykaye]

Oh Wow, Ginny, thank you so much for all that fascinating social history - these are the sort of things that I love finding out about, - semi-forgotten history, so much more interesting (to me) than battles and kings & queens.

When I was writing memoir for my OU course last year, I looked up some websites re the holiday camps we used to go to when I was a small child.  They were so interesting, and people had posted all sorts of memories - my mother absolutely loathed those holidays and I don't have very happy memories of them myself, but many families, it seems, went to the same places year after year and had a marvellous time.  Despite the fact that my family didn't really enjoy themselves (they weren't v good at that!) I loved reading all about the fun that other people had there, and so many of the little details reminded me of just what it had been like.

Thanks again, I'm going to re-read it all tonight.

Rosemary

[MaryPage]

I spent one night of my life, and only that one, at a resort in the Catskills.  The one I stayed in was a vacation place for Italians coming from the big cities of the east coast region.  A travel agent had booked me in there just as a convenient place to stay when going from Lake Placid to Annapolis.  She knew I hated interstate motels and loved the mountains.  My granddaughter, then 8 years old, and I were mesmerized by the extremely different, to us, culture and food at dinner that night!  We were definitely fish out of water!
But for me, there is nothing so fascinating as reading in detail of how other cultures live from dawn to bedtime.  The Native Americans, the Amish, the Jewish (and they can differ a lot by country!), the Italians, the Irish (much closer to home!), and so on and on.  Rosemary, we feed in the same streams!

[Tomereader1]

Wow Ginny, seeing those pictures was wonderful!  The buildings (some of them) remind me of the  Hotel in "Somewhere in Time" and makes me think, too, of the resort in "Dirty Dancing".

[JeanneP]

I think that one of the reasons that the Jewish people had their own clubs, hotels, many schools, was that in the USA they were not welcome in many organizations. I remember the town I first came to in US.  They could not join the country Club. Play on the private golf course.  Now I believe on owns both places.
 
It was usual for them to live in the same areas as they wanted their schools to be a little different.  Their places of prayer were usually built in one area. Could get all Kosher foods without having to go far.  Theatre plays in Yiddish which many still liked to speak.  Something about being amongst your own people that is found comfortable.  I always wished there were British people living by me.  I did finely get a British woman's club up abut 10 miles from me where there was a large Airforce base.  Lots of British women whose husbands were in the Airforce lived there.  This was in the 60s.  Now its gone.  Meet a few at the University once in awhile but no clubs as such.

Now that the young have gotten away from Orthodox into more modern thinking lots have changed their thinking.  Mixed in everywhere.  That is way it should be.

No rules in the town I live in now.  First we had a Black Section.  Now very few of them left. they buy where ever they can afford without a problem.

Still have large areas where they built apartments strictly for the people being helped along. Some are really nice but seem to get torn up really fast.  A few areas are now being taken over and turning into Black areas.  They to like to live all together.

[Steph]

The wildest thing about our long weekend in Concord was mealtime..Strictly kosher of course and at our assigned ( yes assigned) table, we had a very young jewish couple, very conservative.. The first night at dinner, they bring you a menu and all the rest of us ordered. The young groom looked at the waiter and said..EVERYTHING for his main course and they did just that. and he tasted every single dish.. Amazing.. We had an interracial couple at our table as well. The woman was really lovely and black.. Since Diahne Carroll was the headliner that weekend, every one seemed to assume that this woman was her.. Not true, but I guess the black threw them off.. Oh, the wine tasting was at 10 in the morning.. A sort of different time for that sort of thing.

[ginny]

  Probably the last time in his life he got everything, eh? hahahaa

I love all the comments here and I have to say I have gone off the deep end, I  did not know I was part of history but now that I do I have become fascinated by the time and area. I've ordered three books (people wrote BOOKS on this?), one of which was It Happened in the Catskills: An Oral History in the Words of Busboys, Bellhops, Guests, Proprietors, Comedians, Agents, and Others Who Lived It (Excelsior Editions)


Ho,  they didn't interview me~! hahahhaa  THAT one, I can assure anybody, will be an eye opener. hahahaa

I ordered Growing up at Grossingers, and the Richman book in gratitude to him for bringing this all up. He appears to be fascinated by things abandoned: roller coasters, etc. There's also a VHS film on Things That Aren't There Any More, which I got years ago because it was on Willow Grove Park, an old amusement park out of Philly. MAN o MAN, one now feels older than Methuselah.

  Kutshers is still going but the reviews are absolutely terrible, people saying it's stuck in time and they've done nothing in 50 years.  (If was never a  Grossingers or even  Concord  to begin with).  I am afraid to go stay there because of what I might see. What we thought was innovative in the 50's and 60's is definitely not, now.

   Continuing on happily and slowly with Boca, the Yiddish expressions are flying like snow. Some of them I recall, some of them I don't or want to refresh my memory on, I looked up macher this morning as I haven't heard that in 50 years and I found a cute little Yiddish dictionary online from (this IS the internet after all) a man who does not speak Yiddish  BUT whose grandparents do and he's got a lot of the ones I remember: http://www.asinine.com/essays/yiddish.html


A couple I need are not there  so I'll keep looking.

So far it's a lovely slow thing (sort of like life in a retirement center) but with little frissons of excitement. And perhaps it's getting quite real. I still don't see the Jane Austen connection and am beginning to worry that I need to reread Austen. Meanwhile (there IS a professor of English character  who does teach Jane Austen) a new man has entered the scene, somewhat mysterious,  lots of matchmaking, I am half way thru and still like it. It's still light, it's still fun but it's taking in overtones now of something more real, and that's interesting, too. So far, so good.

In the meantime I read a biography of Dean Martin, who had very humble beginnings and who was a failure at school, and it said that he was never impressed or intimidated by any person he ever  met. I think that's interesting.

[ginny]

I'm very sorry to report that Judy Laird's (the discussion leader of this discussion)  husband Don has died after a series of serious illnesses.

Our sympathy to Judy in this great loss, I am very sorry.

[rosemarykaye]

Very sorry to hear that Ginny.

I send my sincere condolences to Judy.

Rosemary

[Tomereader1]

so sorry to hear this.  Prayers and good thoughts to Judy.

[jane]

My sympathy to Judy and her Family.

[Frybabe]

Sorry to hear about your loss Judy. Hugs and sympathy to you and your family.

[JoanK]

Ginny: thanks for that Yiddish list. It really took me back, since my husband used many of those expressions. I'll have to get "jane Austen in Boca". (I'll bet the plot turns out to be a rerun of Pride and Prejudice")

Do you know "The Joys of Yiddish" by Leo Rosten?

[BarbStAubrey]

Wasn't it these camps that was the scene for that movie with Patrick Swayze  he is an older camp councilor and she is there with her parents and either he teaches her to dance or create a dance for a talent show or maybe it was a competition any how they have a doomed love affair - I think she gets her first kiss.  Talk about 20 questions I cannot remember the name of the movie or the set which I thought was one of the camps that Ginny is remembering.

[Tomereader1]

"Dirty Dancing"

[BarbStAubrey]

         YES!!!

[maryz]

Condolences to Judy and all her family.

[MaryPage]

Judy, deepest sympathy.

[CallieOK]

Judy, my sympathy and prayers are with you.

[mabel1015j]

So sorry to hear about your husband Judy. I hope you have family and friends nearby to grieve with you and support you.

Dirty Dancing! One of the top ten "music" movies, of course, having Patrick in it was very helpful in my coming to that opinion!

Jean

[Steph]

Oh Judy, I am so very sorry.. I wish I lived closer. If you start to travel again, I live in the summer in North Carolina and I would bet you would love it.. jUst let me know.
The Concord and other kosher hotels. Most of the really good comics all cut their teeth there. My husband was a New Yorker, so the Yiddish expressions were all over the place. As a new bride, from Delaware, it was like he was speaking in tongues, but I caught on and they are wonderful descriptive words..
I worked in a beach hotel summers in college. We lived on the fourth floor ( attic),no air,, no bathroom, no shower.. did Breakfast and dinner.. It was a family hotel, so cozy, but how we lived in the heat, etc is beyond me. Wehad to go down a flight for bathroom and shower. There were two types of rooms at the hotel.. with and without baths.. Cannot imagine, but know that once in Germany, we were on the American floor, but I heard an English woman at breakfast complain that the shower room was always booked on her floor, so some of the rooms had nothing, but a sink.

[rosemarykaye]

Steph, until quite recently many small hotels in the UK did not have en-suite rooms.  Even now some B & Bs only have some rooms en-suite.  I actually stayed in a hotel in Harvard last year in a room that didn't have a bathroom, but that was fine - there was one right opposite and no-one else seemed to use it.

If we ever stayed in a boarding house at the seaside in my childhood, we all had to take our dressing gowns and queue up to clean out teeth.  If you wanted a bath they often used to charge you extra for the hot water.

I think the UK's attitude to baths/showers lagged behind the US for a long time.  When I was a teenager my mother used to go nuts if I wanted a bath (we did not have a shower) more than twice a week.  She used to tell me it would 'destroy all the natural oils on my skin', which translated as 'it costs good money to heat the water.'  I used to wash every morning in the basin with cold water.  My daughters now often seem to have two showers a day, and we just accept that as normal.  How times change.

[Frybabe]

Except for the hotel in Edinburgh, all the hotels/bed and breakfasts we stayed at had the bathroom separate. In my Grandmum's house we could only draw hot water in  the morning when she had the stove going. The hot water boiler was upstairs above the stove. Her gas line had a coin box type meter on it so when she wanted heat she had to put money in the box.

[ALF43]

I just read the best book, entitled Me Before You, by JoJo Moyes.
I thought of my SeniorLearn friends while pondering these issues.
 I can't remember who suggested it or why I chose this particular story but I really enjoyed  it and ordered her other book, as well.  
The bottom line of this story is love and loss.
  "What do you do when making the person you love happy means breaking your own heart?"
It is an easy read, yet a profound message resonates for each one of us.

[jane]

ANDY!!! Great to see you posting!

jane

[ALF43]

It's great to remember how to post, Jane.  Thank you.

[ALF43]

Ginny, I lived at the foot of the Catskills where I raised my children.
 I spent many an evening at these various resorts as I had a pianist friend who worked the circuit and I could attend these galas with his wife for nothing.

 The pictures that you posted brought back many fond memories and sentiments  I have long forgotten.  Thank you. 
It always stirkes me how often we go round and around and yet come back to our roots, in one way or another.

[JoanK]

" My daughters now often seem to have two showers a day, and we just accept that as normal.  How times change."

I think we get dirtier now! I remember as a child, washing hair once a week was fine: now, no way! Dids our standards change, or the amount of dirt we pick up from our polluted air?

Hi, Alf! Good to see you.

I've started Jane Austen in Boca. Love it so far!

[Frybabe]

HI, Alf. Glad to see you back again.

I think we get dirtier now! I remember as a child, washing hair once a week was fine: now, no way! Dids our standards change, or the amount of dirt we pick up from our polluted air?

Mostly, I think JoanK, it is all in the marketing. Create a product and to sell it you must create a demand for it. There are some things, though, that just sell themselves. When it became easier to fill the bathtub with hot water (indoor plumbing and hot water heaters), the marketers set to work creating a bigger demand for their soap products. Oh yes, cleanliness is next to godliness and suppression of perspiration (smell), fresher breath and whiter teeth, etc., will get you your guy/gal, make you feel great, and is more healthy. And so it goes. Electronics has gone wild with new innovations and programming . No sooner than you have bought a computer/cell phone/tablet they are out with a newer whiz bang machine that everyone just has to have. It feeds on itself.

[MaryPage]

Well, people DID used to smell pretty bad.  Remember the tradition that brides got married in June because everyone waited for warmer weather to take their ONE BATH A YEAR in May or June. 
Another thing,
it was not until the 20th century that scientists discovered it is the bacteria feeding on the food in our mouths, especially overnight in our sleep. that causes tooth decay.  Just brushing them well outta there before we go to bed and not eating or drinking anything more than water before morning will cut down on 75% of cavities!  Who knew?  My daddy used to have me brush my teeth and get on my Doctor Dentons and then give me a piece of candy for being a good girl.  I would suck on that piece of hard candy while he read me a bedtime story: usually Brer Rabbit.  Then off to bed, sometimes still sucking on what was left of the candy!  Whew!  Those bacteria did a job on me, and cost my daddy a packet of money putting silver and gold in the holes they made in my teeth!
And it was 20th century scientists who found many different kinds of bacteria in us and on us;  all living in colonies on or in different parts of our bodies.  And it is their poop that makes us stink!  And it is easily washed off us with suds and water.  Hence the daily shower with, say, a bar of DOVE soap scours off the piled up poop from those bazillions of bacteria until we start carrying a load of it through the hours until our NEXT shower.

[Steph]

It is funny, how things change. My mother in law went to the hairdresser every other week and never ever washed her hair inbetween. She also preferred two showers a week since she was convinced she had delicate skin that hated water.
When I was little and visited my city grandparents, you had to feed the gas water heater in the bathroom to take your baths..
Andy,, how wonderful, I have missed seeing your comments and the interesting books you read.
Closed on the new house,, then proceeded to the new house..The old owner is not a nice person.She left me a mess in the garage. Boxes everywhere, some food in the fridge, decorations on the walls. I am not even the tiniest bit amused.

[rosemarykaye]

Oh yuk, Steph - that is exactly what you don't need in a new house.  I've always cleaned any house we've sold obsessively, and I must say any house we have bought has been left pristine clean.  Can you get cleaners in to sort it out for you?

Rosemary

[ALF43]

You will be fine, Steph.  You never gave yourself the credit you deserve for your strength of character and soul.  Are you still in Clermont?

[ginny]

Oh there's ANDREA!! Welcome back, Andrea!!! Where have you BEEN?

Oh you, too, at the Catskills? Did you realize we are now history because of it and that the great hotels  aren't there any more?  It's amazing how many of us got in free, it does make one wonder who paid, doesn't it? I can remember going to both Grossingers and the Concord free.

Am still in Boca, the book,  and enjoying it also,  but I did hit a snag last night in the conversation at the dance about May's gardening advice. Apparently Cohen is not a gardener, I never heard irises referred to as "delicate plants" before,  but otherwise she's right on course. That whole conversation was kind of ridiculous between Stan and May on "gardening," which he's supposed to be passionate about and her advice is inane. Otherwise it's  getting interesting. Absolutely NOTHING is happening, nothing whatsoever, but I'm really enjoying it and the pace. And what, Joan K, do you think of MEL??!!

So far so good. I like comedies of manners if this is what this is. Very little happens there, either. Thinking of EF Benson, now.  I don't think this is  thought of as comedic however, but it sure rings true to the culture I saw at the Catskills.

I was reading last night the horrific reviews of Kutchers, going back to 2009, the place is something apparently out of the Shining but nastier, apparently it's really a dump. Be that as it may,  several people mentioned the swimming pool restrictions and I have not seen THAT in years. (Men's swimming times, women's swimming times and the two don't mix, apparently).

I haven't seen that in YEARS, and it brings back so many memories. I'd like to walk thru Kutchers again for the history but by the sound of it, I couldn't stay in one place  5 minutes.

Stephanie, that's awful. Was there some reason she had to leave it in that state? Sudden illness, etc.? Apparently it's owned by the owner, I'm surprised a management would allow it to be left in that shape, that's  terrible! Sorry! Hope this doesn't put a damper on your new move.

[maryz]

What a shame, Steph.  I'm so sorry.  Sounds like it might be time to call in one of the maid services for a few hours. 

On our recent small boat trip (90 passengers max, 63 on our trip), each bathroom had its own water heater.  HOWEVER, it held only five gallons.  That's really enough - IF you don't leave the water running the whole time you're in the shower.  Funny!

I've just gotten Edward Rutherfurd's latest, Paris.  I had preordered it, and got the notice this morning that it was on the e-reader.   

[mabel1015j]

Ginny and Joan - so glad you are enjoying "JA in Bocco". As i said, it was just what i needed in a jam-packed two weeks of activities. On my next trip to the library i'm going to pick up "JA in Scarsdale." that should be fun. By the way, her "Much Ado About Jessca Kaplan" is set in Cherry Hill - for those of you familiar with south Jersey. Sounds like it's witty and fun also. That's also on my tbr list.

"Gramercy Park" by the other Paula Cohen was also a unique read for me. As i said, it's written in what i would call "Victorian-novel" style. It almost put me off, but i perservered and got caught up in what this young woman's past experience was all about. I was pretty sure how it would end, being a Victorian novel,   but had to keep reading to see exactly how the author would handle it - and i was not disappointed. She has several more books also - more books on the TBR list!
http://www.amazon.com/Gramercy-Park-Paula-Cohen/dp/031230997X

Cohens seem to have an affinity to naming their daughters Paula and to encourage them to write -  I just found another one on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Bok-Dysfunctional-Paula-H-Cohen/dp/1480146625/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1366729377&sr=1-7

Bok - Memoir of a Dysfunction Dog!?! That sounds like a great book for my friend Janet who primarily reads books about animals, especially dogs. LOL


ALF - so glad you're back with us!

Steph - how awful and rude of the previous owner! And what a downer for you after being so excited about a new home, pooh!

Jean

[mabel1015j]

Edward Rutherfurd in Paris, sounds like our next book dscussion!

Jean