Noah's Compass by Anne Tyler ~ May Book Club Online -

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Noah's Compass ~  May Book Club Online
You are invited to join us on May 1.

Anne Tyler's Noah's Compass was SeniorLearn's first  choice for  our May Book Club Online discussion.  We do hope you will join us in what should be a meaningful, worthwhile experience.  Tyler's protagonist, Liam Pennywell, tells his young grandson that Noah wasn't going anywhere in the Ark.  "He was just trying to stay afloat. He was just bobbing up and down, so he didn't need a compass, or a rudder, or a sextant."  Liam Pennywell  is troubled by his inability to remember anything about the first night that he moved into his new, spare condominium,  after being laid off at 61 from a job he never liked. All he knows when he wakes up the next day in the hospital is that his head is sore and bandaged.  For Liam, the most distressing part of his memory loss was that it felt like he was losing control. And yet this novel is described as "gently humorous."  Really. We all know a Liam, the novel suggests.   In fact, there may be a little of Liam in each of us. Just trying to stay afloat.  Please plan to join us as we float along together.

Discussion Schedule May 1-2 ~     Chapter 1 May 3-7 ~     Chapters 2 & 3 May 8-14 ~   Chapters 4,5,6 May 15-21 ~  Chapters 7,8,9 May 22-28 ~  Chapters 10,11,12

 

Some Questions for Your Consideration

May 1 - 7  Chapter 1

1.  Is it a bad thing that that Liam Pennywell got laid off from teaching fifth graders at St. Dyfrig's?  Do you think he had been a good teacher?

2. What do you think of Anne Tyler's  descriptive writing  style in this first chapter?  How do you picture Liam's friend, Bundy, as a  "blue-black giraffe"?

3. What did you like about Liam's new apartment?  Would you have rented it?  

4.  Can you tell whether Liam is looking forward to the next stage in his life, his retirement?  Or does he consider this stage the end of the line?  How do you look upon your retirement years?

5.  Why do you think Liam is so concerned about not remembering anything about the break-in?  He’s been told several times that this is very normal, and he doesn’t seem to have any other memory problems.  Have you ever suffered a loss of memory following an injury like this?

6.  Latin scholars, did you spot the latin phrase in Chapter 2?  What was its meaning?

7.  How do the  women in his life, his three daughters, his ex-wife and his sister differ in their actions and attitudes towards Liam?

8.  What is your opinion of Liam?  Does it change, as you learn more about him?  (Is it unusual for a 60 year old man not to have a  computer,  a cell phone or even a television?)

9. Why did Dr. Morrow make time in his busy schedule to see Liam right away?  What is the neurologist's prognosis?   Just what does Liam expect of someone he calls a “rememberer?”

10. Do you think it is unusual or abnormal for Liam to want to remember the attack?   What clues has he learned at this point?  

Relevant Links:
Amazon.com. - Used copies available;
Bruce Frankel's What Should I Do With the Rest of My Life?  
Anne Tyler's Baltimore;

  

Discussion Leaders:  JoanP & Pedln

[JoanP]

Welcome   to every one of you on this first day of May!  (Where did April go?)

 It appears this  is going to be more than a straightforward discussion of Anne Tyler's delightful new novel, as she has brought up issues that we have all been facing: meaningful retirement, memory loss.... Her book should stimulate discussion of our own concerns.  We are looking forward to sharing  your thoughts on the novel and the issues AT brings to the tabl.!
 
We're going to ask you to keep an eye on the DISCUSSION SCHEDULE in the heading.  We would like to focus on Liam Pennywell, described in Chapter 1, for the first two days of the discussion.  The poor guy!  The poor fifth graders!  Would you say Liam's  future looks more promising?  

[pedln]

Welcome to everyone.  This certainly will be more than a straightforward discussion.  Lots of emotions and feelings popping up here.  Lots of people here.  I can’t say right now whether I like them or dislike them, but I can certainly relate to some of things they’ve said or done.

I can’t wait to get started, can’t wait to  to hear your thoughts.  But first, what about this Liam Pennywell?

[pedln]

Good morning.  Hurrah.  May 1 is here.  Thunderstorms approaching here, so I’m just here for a quick in and out.  First impressions of Liam – he’s kind of an accepting sort of guy – he follows, rather than leads.  He loses his job, and since he’s 61 years old it must mean that a productive life is over for him – he thinks.

A seventeen-year-old tells him where to put his bed and desk.  That’s fine with Liam. His sister calls and tells him to make his bed.  Well, that was a good idea, but he does it because he’s used to taking orders from her.

Damian, the 17-year-old, when Liam says he doesn’t have a computer, asks how he communicates with the outside world.  “He doesn’t,” says his friend Bundy.  That may be true.  He seems to think about things, but then doesn’t communicate his thoughts to anyone, worried about what they might think.

My impression from reading this first section – He’s kind of a Casper Milqtoast.

[CallieOK]

My first impression of Liam is that he "goes along to get along". 

I was amazed that he had such a long teaching career.  Fifth Grade?? Considering his general attitude, it's surprising that he lasted one year with that age group.

[JoanP]

I just have to ask - what is your understanding of a "Caspar Milquetoast"?  I think of someone very meek and submissive.  Is this how you see Liam?  Is there a difference between someone who "goes along to get along"  as you see him, Callie and someone who is too weak and submissive?  Do you detect a subtle difference?  

  How do you get "laid off"  from teaching the fifth grade?  Do you think he got fired?  From St. Dyfrig's?  Is there really a St. Dyfrig?  parochial school?

[ALF43]

Yes Pedln- HOORAY- HOORAY THE 1ST OF MAY
ANDY WANTS TO GO OUT AND PLAY!  

Joan-I'm certain that the "powers that be" at St. Dryfigs knew Liam's personality and that he would agree to his dismissal.  Liam, (IMO) suffers from a comman malady of apathy and detachment.  His whole demeanor is listless and tedious.  He has very little interest in anything including his teaching position.   It appears that the only thing that interested him was economizing.  WHY was that?  He had no intentions of going anywhere or doing much other than moving and discarding his past life, which embarrased him when he viewed it at the curbside.
Callie people like that that "go along to get along", at that degree,I see as a potential suicide.  Maybe his friend Bundy will spur him on to something of interest.  I loved the contrast between this skeletal, (blue black giraffe of a man) phys ed teacher and the meek, weak Liam.

[CallieOK]

I would love to know why Ann Tyler "cast" him as a Fifth Grade teacher. 

Quoting the opening page:  "Teaching wasn't what he'd been trained for.  His degree was in philosophy(underlining mine).  Oh, don't ask."

Liam's general attitude toward life has probably always been "sitting in his rocking chair, reflecting".  There are some hints that he is looking forward to do this in his "summing-up stage" of life.

I'm off to see my granddaughter perform as Cha Cha in "Grease".  This character is so against type that it will be a miracle if the teachers/director can get her to be "trashy". 
BBL

     

[Ella Gibbons]

Liam, 65 years old, and out of a job.  It happens! 

Everyone says you must plan for retirement.  HOw does one do that except for the pension, the savings account, etc.  What is the next step?  And if you are single or widowed?  How does one plan?

Liam thinks that one step is to simplify.  I believe him.  One, like myself, loses a spouse, cannot take care of the big house, the yard, the memories.  So one simplifies.

I did it and found that, like Liam, no one wanted the "stuff."  The stuff I had so carefully chosen, the china, the pictures, the antiques.  My daughter had her own stuff, didn't have room for mine.   Likewise, with nieces.

It happens.

One day my daughter started talking about her own retirement and I asked her what she was going to do the week after she retired.  She couldn't think of a single thing to do.

It happens.

[kidsal]

It seems that Liam didn't have much of a plan although he taken care of his finances.
I worked for the Federal Government for 45 years -- had my retirement party and walked out of the office.  Have never been back except I do have lunch with people still working there -- nothing much has changed since I left
I sold my house (which I regret) and moved into a townhouse.  NO don't want another job.  Would like to travel more but am on oxygen so kind of expensive and cumbersome.
Am trying to scale back - too many books, movies, etc.  I remember when I lived in California in the 60s I lived in an apartment with one room and bath.  How could I squeeze all I have now into that apartment  
I wouldn't have moved out to suburbs unless alternate transportation.  If he wasn't able to drive anymore ( a frightening thought) he would need a way  to get around.  Probably more activities in town which would be attractive to him - a college perhaps. 

[Octavia]

I came here last night(the end of our May1) but the place was empty, so I tiptoed out again. I'll have to recheck my time differences.
Alf you took the words out of my mouth. You said "apathy and detachment" and I had jotted down "apathetic and dispirited". He reminds me of that dog inthe song that's howling because he's sitting on something, but can't be bothered to get up.
He's looking forward to "the final stage"? Good grief Liam. Get a grip, you're 61! It's a big world.
He could travel, teach english as a 2nd language, volunteer for meals on wheels. Something. Lots of people say they started living after retirement.
I wonder at what point it all went wrong. Did he finish his degree, eager and hopeful and then something took his spirit away?
Anne Tyler's characters often seem to want an austere life. I remember Delia in Ladder Of Years with her belongings in a cardboard box.
So true Ella, my step-father always skited that his "stuff" was the best until he couldn't give it away when they had to move to a nursing home. New stuff is so cheap now.

[pedln]

JoanP, trying to answer you about Casper Milqtoast.  I agree with Callie, Liam goes along to get along.  And as we’ve seen in just this section, he lets others kind of push him around, take advantage of him.  Perhaps not meek, per se, but  I can just hear them over at St. Dyfigs. “We have to consolidate.  It’ll be easier to let Pennywell goes than so and so.  He won’t fight it or put up a fuss.”

Liam's general attitude toward life has probably always been "sitting in his rocking chair, reflecting".  There are some hints that he is looking forward to do this in his "summing-up stage" of life.

Good point, Callie.  You’re saying, he’s a thinker, not a doer?  And next someone will say “those who can, do, and those who can’t, teach”  and will incite a small riot among all of us teachers here.

Ella asks how one plans for retirement.  I don’t know.  When I was part of the teaching staff the attitude was , “when you’re ready to retire, you’ll know it.”  And it was true.  “Yep, I think this is the year.”  But as far as planning for it – financially, a little bit, but emotionally, mentally?  No.  My house is paid for, so my rent is pretty cheap.  And while I’m not going to let it fall down around me, it will probably be one of those fixer uppers or “as is.”

I had trouble understanding why Liam wanted to move, as he doesn’t’ seem to be too worried about his finances.  Perhaps it is as Andy says, economizing was the only thing that really interested him.  Perhaps he’s trying to emulate the life of one of his beloved philosophers.

Sally, I agree, not being able to drive anymore is a very frightening thought. I would have to move.

[serenesheila]

Liam, seems drab and dull, to me.  Two broken marriages.  Little contact with his daughters.  I don't quite understand why he is so determined to remember the night's burglary.  When Damien entered the picture I thought that perhaps he was the burglarer.   I would have liked the author to say why he didn't find a job in Philosophy.  That seems to be the one area of interest for him.

I stopped working because of a fall at work.  I was a welfare suprivisor, and loved my job.  I ended up in a hospital bed, with 40 lbs. of traction hung on me, for two years.  I still walk with a cane, and am in pain a lot of the time.  So, there was no planning ahead, for me.  My husband had gone blind, and we spent a lot of time, quietly at home.  We both liked to read, and watch PBS, and the history channel. 

For a few years after his dearh, about the only place I went was to doctor's appointments.  By then, I had learned to manage my pain, some.  I joined a widow's group, and did quite a few social things.  I traveled, played bridge, and did some volunteer work.  The last few years, my pain has increased, again.  Now, I am quite happy being at home.  The computer has been a real God send for me.  I watch a lot of PBS, and the history channel, as well as reading.  So, I am quite happy in my final years.

Sheila

[CallieOK]

Pedln, re your comment “those who can, do, and those who can’t, teach”  and will incite a small riot among all of us teachers here.  As a former teacher as well as the daughter and wife of teachers, I would be in the front line of the march. 

 I agree that Liam doesn't (can't??) put his thoughts into action. He lacks the ability to communicate.   Examples:   (Disclaimer: I have the Large Print version and doubt that page numbers will work.  These are all from Chapter One)

1)  He assumed Damion would ride with Bundy.  When he hopped in with Liam, Liam couldn't think of anything to say (to his daughter's boyfriend  ).
2)  He contemplated asking how his daughter, Kitty, was - but didn't.    (Seems to me this would be a good conversation opener)
3)  He invisioned Bundy staying for the "traditional" beer and pizza - but never said a word. 
4)  He felt it would be useless to remind his sister he didn't eat meat - so he just let it go.

Although I taught for ten years, I was The Executive Director of Household Traffic Control (homemaker  ) for the remaining 24 /1/2 years of my husband's life.  I was widowed suddenly when I was 59 - got my act together a couple of years later - and have lived very independently ever since.  I'm probably as close to Liam's status now than I've ever been but I don't feel defeated..

[JoanP]

 Andy, I see detachment, but not really depression.  I don't see him suicidal.  He just seems to want to be left alone with his "beloved books."   Callie, those are such good examples of Liam's inability to communicate.  Do you think he wants to be left alone so he doesn't have to exert himself to make conversation?  To me he  seems so alone, without actually feeling lonely.  He seems to crave solitude.

Let's check Liam's age...If he's 60, 61, he's just a bit short of getting collecting Social Security...It sounds as if this is an unplanned for "retirement," doesn't it?  It seems as if our fifth grade teacher is going to need to economize, especially since he doesn't seem to be thinking of looking for another teaching job - is not yet eligible for SS.  I'm wondering if St. Dyfrig's had much of a retirement plan, as you did,  Kidsal  Are you at all familiar with Baltimore?  Surely the move out of old town to the neighborhood out near the Beltway was dictated by the need to economize.  
  What did you think of his new apartment? Would you have moved here?  We're talking about selling the house (we've lived here for 35 years) and moving to something smaller.  Will you tell about your regrets selling your house, Kidsal?

[JoanP]

Callie, I felt sorry for those fifth graders.  Wide-eyed, impressionistic, full of energy...in need of a teacher who can channel this energy.  Clearly this does not  describe our introspective unfulfulled philosopher,  does it?  Sheila sees him as "dull and drab."  I can't imagine what his classroom had been like.   I have to believe that the author will tell us  how a Philosophy major ended up teaching fifth grade.  (I'm wondering what were his teaching qualifications?  Did he have any?)

I'm still not sure what Liam wants to do in the summing up stage of his life.  He talks about reading all day and reflecting in his rocking chair, but then there are times he looks forward "with curiosity"  to what the next phase will bring.  He has no plans - seems to be waiting passively to see what's going to happen.

How "trashy"  was Cha Cha today?

[JoanP]

Ella, I'm as puzzled as you are about planning for retirement.  BUT I am very envious of those who know how to plan.  Have you seen the AARP commercial on TV - all those people who say what they are going to do once they retire?  It reminds me of those who knew what they wanted when they left high school - what they wanted to major in when they went to college.  "I wanted to be a VET since I was ten years old."   I will be watching as we get into the book, trying to solve the question - how does one plan for retirement?  As you say though, "stuff happens"  that derail the best of plans.  At least if you have a plan, you can make adjustments to it as life happens. But what if you have no plan to start out with?  Do you wait, as Liam seems to be doing, to see what happens next?

Octavia, I'm going to look forward to your posts from the antipodes first thing in the morning.  See, Octavia is one of those people from the AARP ads...full of ideas for meaningful retirement years.   And Sheila found a way to get out, travel, volunteer and make social contact - so important.  So un-like Liam.  The very opposite.
 
You know what - I think we are going to learn a lot from one another during this discussion.   I was wondering whether Anne Tyler's own retirement  would resemble her characters' - but finally decided she will never retire - will keep on writing... I hope she does.
 
What do you think of her writing style. 
I like the contrast you write about, Andy -
"the contrast between this skeletal, (blue black giraffe of a man) phys ed teacher and the meek, weak Liam."  I see tall and slim, but  what about the "blue-black giraffe" though?  What is AnneT trying to convey with these colors?

[CallieOK]

Just a quick "off subject" comment in response to JoanP's question.  Cha Cha, a/k/a #1 granddaughter, was "sassy trashy" and did a good job.  Thanks for asking.

Back on topic:   Whatever Liam was thinking about the coming years, he certainly had a rude interruption, didn't he?   How clever of Ann Tyler to hit us with the concluding sentence of Chapter 1.  Can't wait to turn the page tomorrow. 

[salan]

Alf, I agree that Liam seems to suffer from apathy and detachment.  He appears to be listless--just exists in whatever circumstance he finds himself in.  I feel that he probably wasn't a very good teacher and just stayed in that position because it was where he ended up.  He doesn't seem to have much drive or ambition.  Now that he doesn't have a job, he doesn't seem to know what to do with himself.  I believe that I read that he was 61, so he probably had to exist on a meager pension until ss kicked in.  He probably moved to economize; but mainly I think that it just gave him something to do.  The fact that he doesn't seem to have many friends (in spite of living/teaching in the same area for years) and he is not very close to his family seems to describe what kind of person he is.
Sally

[joangrimes]

Well you hid from me again. I finally found you though today. can't do much posting here or anywhere though because I pulled an all night read the other night.  I was reading a book , on my kindle of course, that I literally could not put down.  I had to finish it.  It was It was 3:00 AM when I finished it.  Now my poor eyes are one more mess.  They hurt and burn so that I can hardly stand it.  I cannot see much at all.  So it is rest for my poor eyes until they improve a little.Joan Grimes

[ALF43]

Holy smokes JoanG- what in the world are you reading that is that good, to force you to stay up all night and read?  I'm jealous.  I would love to find a book that had that affect on me again.

JoanP- you agree with the depression but not the suicide ideation?  Well let's count the ways he is depressed.
Overview
Major depression is when a person has five or more symptoms of depression for at least 2 weeks. These symptoms include feeling sad, hopeless, worthless, or pessimistic. In addition, people with major depression often have behavior changes, such as new eating and sleeping patterns.

Symptoms

Agitation, restlessness, and irritability - he has all of these
Dramatic change in appetite, often with weight gain or loss ?
Extreme difficulty concentrating- he is obsessed with this break in
Fatigue and lack of energy + for those
Feelings of hopelessness and helplessness Bingo
Feelings of worthlessness, self-hate, and inappropriate guilt- +
Inactivity and withdrawal from usual activities, a loss of interest or pleasure in activities that were once enjoyed  - +
Thoughts of death or suicide
Trouble sleeping or excessive sleeping

Offered from a health site.

Without help many people become suicidal.  Will Liam find help somehow?  We don't know but his attitude sure scares me and if I were a relative or close friend I would keep an eye on him- very closely

[retired]

The library has not come through with my copy of Noah's Compass to date . I reserved a copy in Mid-April.   So I will continue to lurk and read your posts .

I retired at age 62 after working for 42 years. I traveled each summer on a vacation . I did not wait for retirement to travel as I knew my discretionary funds would be limited in retirement.

I have always ( still do) planned ahead .
My friends would tease me and ask " how is your ten year plan ? " Have you got it down to five or is it still at ten ?"  I would just laugh and I knew I was doing what was right for me .

In retirement I took Adult Education Classes which interested me because I believe in LIfe Long Learning. I redirected my energy an did a huge amount of a variety of Volunteer work. Some of which were educational , some recreational and some health related .

As the physical stressers of the aging body intervened I find it necessary to readjust my energy to accommodate the changes .

The title of the book "Noah's Compass " made me think . Why that title ? I doubt Noah had an actual man made compass .
I thought yes, indeed we need to establish a compass based on a positive  attitude otherwise we sail on uncharted waters and can get lost and perhaps drown emotionally . 

[JoanP]

Yes, JoanG, please tell us the title of the book so compelling that you stayed up all night to finish!  But rest those eyes first!

Retired, you can add much to this discussion while waiting for your book.  You already have!  Please stay with us!  We non-planners need to hear from  you "planners."  I'm interested in the type of volunteer work that you did when you retired.  There are so many  possibilities, it's hard to narrow them down.  How did you decide where to spend your time?
You bring up an interesting question about the title.  Right now, it doesn't seem that Liam has a compass.  Did Noah?  Or did Noah leave his fate in the hands of a higher power? I like what you said about  "establishing  a compass based on a positive  attitude otherwise we sail on uncharted waters and can get lost and perhaps drown emotionally ."  That might describe Noah, but Liam? 

Anne Tyler is known for revealing her characters in layers, chapter by chapter.  I'm sure we'll have such questions answered as we go along...and we'll learn more about Liam and how he got to where he is.

Andy, I'm still questioning whether Liam is suicidal, or even near it..  I've reread Chapter I, looking for five signs of depression that you see...  

Back in a minute...

[JoanP]

I'm looking at the signs of depression that indicate Liam is a potential suicide in your estimation - Remember, we are talking about the Liam we meet in the first chapter - before the assault..

1. Agitation, restlessness, and irritability - he has all of these Please indicate (I don't see this - maybe if you give some examples?  Instead, I see the opposite - resigned, docile...obedient.  An example would be the way he accepts his sister's direction to make up his bed before he crashes.  He comments that this was a good suggestion, that she knew what she was talking about.

2. Dramatic change in appetite, often with weight gain or loss ?  (I don't see this - although he plans on take-out food - and we see him eating a jelly sandwich for lunch.  When was the last time you ate a jelly sandwich?  I think he just hasn't located a market yet.)

3.  Extreme difficulty concentrating- he is obsessed with this break in (This is chapter one - there has been no break in at this point.)

4.Fatigue and lack of energy + for those  (He's just tired from the move - I don't think this is a sign of anything other than that, do you?

5. Feelings of hopelessness and helplessness Bingo  (What do you mean - Bingo?  He feels he has saved enough, that he has a pension.  I don't see that he is feeling hopeless or helpless at this point. Example?)

6. Feelings of worthlessness, self-hate, and inappropriate guilt- + (I don't see self-hate or guilt.  I see a man who hasn't made any plans, who has just drifted along waiting for things to happen to him.
I may be missing something...and would be happy to consider your conclusions - examples would help.)

I see him "enthusiastic" (Tyler's word) about economizing, about simplifying.  He likes his built-in bookcases.  Did you notice that he is "humming"  as he puts up additional shelving.  I think he's happier than he had been at St. Dygfrid's  with the "endless niggling paperwork..."

The last sentence in Chapter One caught Callie's attention - how about the next to the last sentence?

"This is it, he thought.  The very end of the line.  And he felt a mild stirring of curiosity."

What do you think Anne T is saying here?

;

[pedln]

Perhaps Liam needs a devil’s advocate in his corner. (Even though I’m going to jump his case tomorrow.)  Maybe it’s because he reminds me of a family member – a little bit.  Same kind of dry, unappreciated humor with his BUMPER STICKER  bumper sticker  and T-SHIRT t-shirt.

Sheila says he’s drab.  I think he marches to a different drummer.  He only wants to sit in his rocking chair and read.  He reminds me of Tevye, whose big desire was to sit with the learned men and discuss the Talmud.  Of course, Tevye was a bit more energetic than Liam.

Sally, I agree with you that he  does not have many friends. Probably only Bundy.  But, “in the living room he arranged the [three] chairs in what he hoped was a friendly conversational grouping.”    He’s most likely not thinking, as he does this, about the people he’ll invite over.

yes, indeed we need to establish a compass based on a positive  attitude otherwise we sail on uncharted waters and can get lost and perhaps drown emotionally .

Retirement, you may not have the book yet, but you certainly are right on there.

Andy, thank you for the list of depression symptoms.  No doubt we will be referring to those again.

[winsummm]

oh shoot. WARNING. I'M AHEAD OF CHAPTER ONE HERE AND UNWILLING TO START OVER. SO SKIP ME UNTIL NEXT TIME. . . .  I really like what JoanP  says. CLAIRE

Liam  is a gentle thoughtful person who asks himself "why not" when others direct him and tell him how to live.  He's very reasonable and in the end some hting of a WIMP.

Now, having lost his memory of the attack on him and his resultant awakening in the hospital,  he feels as if he has lost a part of himself and he wants it back, so with nothing else in particular to do, he sets out to find it and gets involved with others more than he has ever been before. In searching for this missing bit of his old life, he finds himsel beginning a new one.  It is something like a COMING OF AGE theme.

I'm reading at my own pace and trying not to move to fast, to mess it up for others so this is just a general overview.

claire
    

[winsummm]

planning for retirement??
 When I was thirty I made a choice between music and art. I chose ART because of the physical changes that I expected to happen as I aged. As it turns out I was right since my hearing has changed more radically than my vision. But in doing so I made another choice which is   to  NOT retire at all. Making things works for a lifetime. Georgia Okeefe, blind and deaf in old age still handled clay, letting her hands form what they would.  Creativity can go on for ever if we let it.

claire

[straudetwo]

My grands were here for the weekend and monopolized the computer.  That made me late. Sorry.

Anne Tyler starts this story in medias res - she comes right to the point.  She has set the course and we have no choice but follow where she leads us.  But I am not so sure it leads to retirement.  His lay-off from school  (which "down-sized") seems to have been somewhat arbitrary, and Bundy for one suggested unfairness and that Liam should not have taken the decision so affably.  True enough.  But it was not Liam's nature to object.

Chapter I gives us a first look at what hLiam is like:  a little detached;self-effacing  - perhaps to a fault; uncomfortable with casual conversation; set in his ways and routines (how to tug in the bed sheets tightly); having  firm opinions about some things; reluctant to accept the benefits of  electronic devices (he had no computer).  As he is shown in Chapter 1, deep down he's not really ready [/b]for retirement.  We see him wonder what he'd do with all the free time he'll have.  

Liam does not have to worry about his financiale future, we read in Chapter 1; he had a savings account and the promise of a pension, but , obviouscautious by nature,  he felt he needed to economize.  Hence the move to a smaller, cheaper apartment.
(And yet, perhaps he should have planned the move more carefully,  especially the location of the new apartment.  But then we wouldn't have this story .)

We meet Liam's sister Julia in Chapter 1; in Chapter 2 other family members appear : his ex-wife, the daughters. The writing is wonderful and quite funny.  Doesn't anyone think so?  Why should we  readers be down-hearted at this point?  And by retirement?  Please !!!

Was there really something physically wrong with Liam before the burglary?  That was not my impression. So I must re-read the early chapters. As for Bundy, the description of him (=skeletal black-blue gorilla) did not ring a bell until LATER.
Tyler's prose flows over us so smoothly, so easily,  that taking notes comes after the fact - for me a least.  Aha, another reason for re-reading, I find.
Her style is perfect,  the teenage jargon  with all those unnecessary "like"s is right on.

Liam may feel is loneliness more now, but, with respect,  I do not see him as clinically depressed,  and certainly not suicidal.

[pedln]

An interesting point, Claire – A Coming of Age theme.  We’ll want to watch for that in the coming chapters.  Do we come into retirement with some maturing, or some changing to do?  I’ve just recently started Bruce Frankel’s What Should I do With the Rest of My Life, and so far have only read about Robby and one other, a woman who began competitive running in her sixties.  It will be interesting to compare their actions with those of Liam.  Might there be parallels between them and him.

Traude, I’m glad to see you talk about routines – the tight tucking of the sheets.  And also he’ll sit in the same chair in the kitchen.  As Tyler tells us, “he had a fondness for routine.”  How about the rest of us.  Do we like our routines?  Do we adapt easily when they’re disrupted?  Do we acquire more routines as we age.  Can we still be spontaneous?

[JoanP]

Good Monday morning,Pedln, we're here at the same time this morning - I just saw your post, will edit this...

I think that Bruce Frankel's book,  "What Should I Do with the Rest of My Life"
would be a great adjunct to this discussion - The link is in the heading...My copy is on the way. We can share insights as we go along...
 You asked, "do we acquire more routines as we age?"  When I read that, I asked myself - "do we require more routines as we age?  I know I do.  I've always been sort of "routine-free"  but as memory worsens, I admit routine helps.

Pedln used a word to describe Liam yesterday when talking about his "dry, unappreciated  sense of humor."  "Unappreciated" seems to be a good description of Liam.  His humor, his talents, his knowledge.  Traudee (good morning, so glad your grands relinquished the computer!) writes of his self-effacing ways, his detachment.  His lack of self-expression seems to be the reason for the fact that he is not appreciated by others.  There was a glimmer when young Damian noticed his bumper sticker...

So today we move on to learn more about Liam's memory loss and what has been called his "obsession"  to remember the night of the attack.  Do you think it is unusual to want to remember - or should he forget and move on with his life?  We get to learn much more about Liam's life before the attack and see if we agree with Andy - that he is and has been depressed.  Maybe even learn the reasons why.

Claire writes - "In searching for this missing bit of his old life, he finds himself beginning a new one.  It is something like a COMING OF AGE theme."  This is so like Anne Tyler, isn't it? (Traudee, yes, I too find her dry humor quite funny.  Do you think it resembles Liam's at all?) We're not going to search the story backwards to remember the attack.  Life goes on.  Perhaps this is what Liam, the philosopher, meant when he said he was looking forward to the next phase of his life "with curiosity."  No compass, just looking forward to see what will happen next as he drifts along into sleep.

Claire, two questions -
  ~Does your kindle tell chapter numbers?  Are you going to have trouble knowing when a new chapter begins when trying to follow the discussion schedule in the heading?
 ~ Did your interest in music continue once you chose Art?  I really liked what you said -  "I made another choice which is   to  NOT retire at all."
I'm wondering what the rest of you think about this.

[pedln]

So now here’s Liam.  He has just awakened, and he’s in a hospital room.  WHAT?

Imagine yourself there.  Your head hurts, you know it’s bandaged.  You remember your address, but not your new phone number.  (I can sympathize with that, it took a year to remember the cell phone number.)  And the nurse just came on duty so she doesn’t know anything either, except that you’ve had a concussion.  What to do?

(Good morning, Joan, just saw your post.)

[Mippy]

Good morning, all!  What a great start here, everyone!

I'm mainly posted to "mark" this place, as I haven't had time yet to read all the previous posts, and don't want to overlap.

I love Tyler's writing style, having read 8 or 9 of her previous novels.
She sets the stage so very well, I feel like I'm driving through the city.
I've been to Baltimore  (pronounced:  Baaal '  mur) loads of times, mostly to attend baseball games, but also to visit the Inner Harbor.

Movies set there also come to mind ... have to search memory to get titles ...  not based on her books, but other writers.

Slammed with Latin assignments today, so more later.

[serenesheila]

I identify a lot with Liam.  I enjoy my solitude.  Do not want my telephone ringing all of the time.  Between my books, selective TV, and my computer, I am content.  As a younger person, I thought I like group gatherings, and parties.  More and more I just want to be quietly at home.  Many of my friends have moved away, or died.  Making new ones, face to face seems like too much work, at this time in my life.  Computer friends seem to fill the void. 

Unfortunately, I did not take into account the effect health problems would have on my activities.  So many of the things I thought about doing in my advancing years, are not physically possible.  I always wanted to learn to play the guitar, but cannot do that, due to arthritis.  I wanted to be a foster grandmother, and looked into doing that, but my income slightly exceeds their limit.  Travel is no longer an option either, except a yearly flight from California to Ohio, to see my son and his family.  Walking is difficult, too.  I am very grateful to be content at home.

It seems to me that Liam has always been frugal.  He has savings, and he has never had a TV, or a computer.  He doesn't seem to have done much traveling, if any.  He doesn't seem to see his family very often.  It seems to me that books are his primary expenditure.  Of course, buying books can be expensive, as we all know.

Your praise of "What To Do With The Rest Of Your Life, sent me to order it on my Kindle.  Yes, books do have chapters numbered on Kindle.  There is also a listing of all of my books, from which to select what I want to read.  I can save my place in each of my books.

Routines have always changed from one age, to the next.  I like routine, it is familiar and comfortable.  Things done in my youth, are no longer possible.  I enjoy the familiar,  it is comfortable.

PEDLIN,  I agree, Liam marches to a different drummer.  So, do I.  Many people I have known, have been uncomfortanble about my solitude.  My comment about Liam being drab, is about how others probably see his life.  I do not think that he thinks of his life, as drab.

I do not think that Liam is depressed, or suicidal.  I find myself wondering what would happen if he were with other philosophers.  I think he would blossom.  Teaching 5th grade was a way of making a lving.  Nothing else, apparently.

Sheila



 

[winsummm]

sheila your life sounds like mine except that I already  play the guitar and have since  I got married and no longer had access to a piano. my folks bought me my first one and it  has been my best friend ever since.  Arthritis isn't as much a problem  as I thought it would be. but having other distractions is.  My left hand fingures have softened and finding a comfortable place for the body  is dificult.  I taught folk guitar for nine years and own  a martin  with steel strings which hurt.  the old beach guitar is ok but has a bent neck and there are two others.  addicted I guess.  guitars are lovely instruments just to hold.

My kindle keeps me reading at six times size. and like you I live alone and find it restful.  I get excited when with friendly others and tired too. I've been sleeping a lot. I guess eighty-two is typical for that.  old cats and dogs do it too.

I'm at chapter thirteen so will not comment right now on the book for fear of leeping ahead too far.

LIam  is loafing.I envy him his physical youth.  sixty is still young in many ways. I'm missing the energy to do what I have always enjoyed and arthritis makes it hard to find comfortable places to read, paint, make music, walk near the beach... the air is so fresh  . . . that is a curse . . .do you live in california too. San Clement near the  shore here.

claire

[winsummm]

yes the kindle has chapters. and yess I love music to make and to listen to but no longer to sight read with aging eyes and focus problems a music staff has three horizontal lines for every single one. and I now have the worlds worst piano but it was free. a 1918 hulk of a wurlitzer player piano. ice finish terrible sound.. missing some strings, marrow pads so some of them go on sounding while playing others. and I'm getting quite deaf.  Listening is still good with certain instruments but  nothng too symphonic.  mushy.  sigh
the verde requiem still works though.  so lovely. . . .and old pop too.

[EvelynMC]

I live in Arkansas and we had storms the whole weekend.  It cleared up yesterday, but phone, cable and computer were still out until late yesterday afternoon.

I thought Liam was relieved to be downsized.  Someone else made the decision for him to quit. He has been wanting to have time to sit and read all the philosophy books he wants, now he has it.  And with the great excuse that he was "downsized".  I think he has a very rich inner intellectual life and this shows in his dry sense of humor.  He sees humor where others might not.  --- Because his degree was in Philosophy, perhaps he felt teaching 5th graders was beneath him (his ex-wife and sister certainly did).  But I think he perservered and was a kind, thoughtful teacher.

He wanted to simplify his life and thought moving to an austere apartment was just the ticket.

And then the unthinkable happens...he's conked on the head and wakes up in the hospital.
 

When I started reading this book I was wondering where it was going...lots to think about.

Evelyn

[Octavia]

Liam seems to be out of step in a world where material possessions and status in life, is seen as the measure of success.
His daughters treat him as a joke, and make fun of him, call him Mr. Magoo. He expects Xianthe to be putting him down to her sisters. "Can you believe what he's done this time?".
I feel that more and more nowadays, our possessions and our work define who we are.
Xianthe call his apartment a "rinky-dink' starter apartment" and scoffs at his so-called car, a used Geo Prizm. I've never seen a Geo Prizm, but the inference is plain, you're a loser!
Every time I look at Real Estate ads. here, and see houses referred to as 'ideal first home', I want to say, who sez? Why is it implicit that we must keep moving up? Keep up with the Jones's.
I feel much more sympathetic towards Liam now. He's shown he can be tolerant, he sticks up for Damien when Xianthe calls him a drug addict. I loved the description of Damien as 'a walking comma'.
I wonder how the boys he taught felt about him? the book doesn't mention them.
He seems to be genuinely fond of his family, but afraid of what they think of him.

[salan]

After Liam woke up in the hospital, people kept asking him what year it was and he replied that half the time he didn't know because the years kept flying past.  Wow, I could relate to that.  While I usually know what the current year is, I frequently can't remember if something happened one year ago or several years ago.  The years do keep flying past, don't they?

When Liam kept asking and trying to remember what happened, people kept telling him to let it go that he probably would rather not know.  How often do we say or think "I'd rather not know", but do we really mean it??  I think that it would be rather terrifying to wake up in the hospital, not knowing how you got there.  Then after being told that someone broke into your house and attacked you while you were asleep, how difficult it would be to have to go back to your house.  How could you feel secure again?? 

He tells the neurologist that he felt like a part of his life had been stolen from him.  That is when he developed his fascination with "the Rememberer".  He thought how nice it would be to have someone follow him around reminding him of things he had forgotten.  This whole event has given him something new and interesting to think about.
Sally

[pedln]

Octavia, I didn't know there was such a thing as a "starter" apartment.  That Xanthe, already I don't like her, but good old Liam just says her rants are kind of a hobby with her.  It's almost like she's blaming her father for his mishap because he's moved into a place that charges less rent.  And then, "Dad, please cooperate!" when the poor guy can't possibly tell the doc what day it is or where he is.  And then she accuses him of leaving the door unlocked.  She's more or less saying everything he does is either wrong or misguided.  Poor guy.

 

Listening is still good with certain instruments but  nothng too symphonic.  mushy.  sigh

Claire, I understand that perfectly.  Same here.  Single instruments, solo voices, otherwise everything's in the bass clef.

[Octavia]

Salan, isn't it strange that the hospital staff, Xianthe and the policeman who interviewed him, seem irritated instead of sympathetic? I thought he'd get nicer treatment. From my experience,Police are usually kinder to victims.
Liam is a man who likes everything in the right pigeonhole, no loose ends.
I'm wondering at the emphasis on his bed, his firm mattress, his bouncy foam-rubber pillow, and the tucked-in top sheet. Does a tight sheet make him feel safe? Why?
Pedlin, we don't say apartment here, it's a flat or a unit. A unit for some strange reason, costs more than our houses are worth. Otherwise, I'd be pared down and gone. I have rooms I never use, but they still get dirty.
Liam is far too polite with everyone, especially Xianthe. He lets people walk all over him.If he stood up for himself, he'd get more respect.
Apologies for my bad grammar previously. I changed a sentence, but forgot to change the verb.