Author Topic: Women's Issues  (Read 365409 times)

mogamom

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1480 on: July 07, 2014, 10:33:06 AM »
The number of abortions from rape, incest, life of mother arguments are FEW.  A large majority of people believe these are exceptions that must be taken into consideration.  All of the surveys I've seen (except 2014 CNN and Pew polls, which show a shift in thinking to a pro-life position with exceptions) show the country split in half.  And it is not men vs. women (men have their own reasons for wanting abortion easily available).

Nowhere in my post did I ever suggest that all contraceptives should be banned (even Hobby Lobby offers 16 out of 20).  But a woman's choice should stop at the woman's choice to not get pregnant; one persons 'rights' stop where another's begin.  We all have the right to life...

Just as in the slavery issue: the country was divided, those who benefitted from keeping slaves touted their 'right' to own them (it was legal), told how slaves were not really fully human, how slaves needed to be cared for because they were incapable of caring for themselves, how they were actually better off with a master to look out for them....




maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1481 on: July 07, 2014, 11:55:11 AM »
(Thought for the day, taken from Wordsmith - A Word A Day)

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. -Robert A. Heinlein, science-fiction author (1907-1988)
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1482 on: July 07, 2014, 12:41:20 PM »
Not sure how slavery enters this discussion about women having choice - and if women could have controlled when they were impregnated this would not be an issue however, it has been a problem for women with various solutions since the time of the Egyptians before the Greek civilization that was so patriorichal  - That to me is the most fantastical thing I have ever heard that women could control men so they did not get pregnant -

As to the reasons for women requiring an abortion, there are many and being used as a means of birth control is another fantasy - but OK I can see where you are coming from and just as I will not be moved neither will you - You will also find facts to support your beliefs - but regardless our beliefs how a woman should choose could we agree that at least she should be allowed the choice -

The idea that businesses can control this choice is obscene as well as allowing any group the power of making the choice over doctors for an appropriate choice based on religion is taking us to a religious based rule of law - By tradition we may have more citizens who practice their religion however, our rule of law was not religious based.  These supreme judges were acting out of their religious belief that we as a nation were so petrified that if a catholic became president the pope would run the country - well now we have a Supreme Court as puppets to the Pope. And, we have very good evidence that the Pope over rode the very commission's findings dealing with population grown and family in his and the Curia's game of politics.

I applaud your work and your belief - I am not being sarcastic - it comes from your heart - however, the issue of denying choice is a benchmark to the values held about women and women's choice - legally denying any good effective medicine from women is not as much about the meds denied as it is about how women can be toyed with which is the same control many women experience by men towards their bodies.

I also think the numbers you quote are very slanted - but they do support your belief which is important however, it does sound like the ownership that between 20 to 40% of all women are sexually abused and your statement that a girl/women can control when she gets pregnant suggests to me you would prefer it if the world was a different place - that is not reality hon and it is so sad to hear that there are good people like yourself who are putting into your beliefs, behavior that is so unreal it is frightening - it suggests that you look at women as having caused their unwanted pregnancy - oh oh oh and ouch - as if women attract this exploitation of their bodies.

That is another whole discourse on how girls are not informed nor trained to protect themselves except, some Moms, at least give them the pill but without the lessons of how easily girls/women are manipulated because no one likes to admit this problem - we see our own sons and brothers and believe they are respectful of women therefore... we forget the most respectful appearing guys are often the perpetrators of sexual abuse - it is done is secret and that clandestine approach is part of their sickness.  Again that is another chapter - all I am saying is that anytime choice is chipped away it is not the number of pills or procedures it is the exemplification that women and their choice must be controlled. And remember the blockbuster that even Edith Bunker was raped - it happens, a lot and if she a grown women could not stop her rape how can anyone suggest this is in the hands of women to stop. It is like giving a family member the responsibility to stop the drunk from drinking and that is not even an issue involving unequal physical force.

Really to round out your experience I strongly suggest you volunteer at the local Battered Women's Center and that will begin to help you cope with this reality that yes, if there was no disrespect of women, if every city in American did not have a Battered Women's Center that shows the prevalence of this uneven ability for women to protect their own bodies and therefore, if the only sex was by agreement none of this would be an issue for women and then we would be having a very different moral discourse.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1483 on: July 09, 2014, 09:08:07 AM »
I too believe there are many millions of universes with all sorts and types of beings struggling with their own form of civilization.. Ours seems to be determined to eventually blow themselves up.The idea that Iran is working on the bomb. They still believe in tribal rivalries and the chances of them trying out the bomb are scary at best. and North Korea with some sort of lunatic in charge.. I think we made a mistake in continuing with atomic energy
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1484 on: July 11, 2014, 12:56:51 PM »
Viagra is covered. Vasectomies are covered. Vacuum pumps for erectile dysfunction? Totally, 100% covered.

But birth control? Sorry, Ladies. Five MEN on the Supreme Court say you're out of luck.

If they thought they were going to get away with this without a fight, they have another think coming.

Senator Patty Murray and 38 other senators just introduced legislation to override the Supreme Court’s outrageous and chauvinistic Hobby Lobby decision.

The reason we can win is because the Supreme Court didn’t strike down the contraception mandate as unconstitutional. Their argument is that it violated a different law passed by Congress, which means Congress itself can overrule the decision with a simple majority vote.

Oh, and yes, Hobby Lobby Still Covers Vasectomies And Viagra, The Huffington Post, June 30, 2014

mogamom

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1485 on: July 11, 2014, 01:56:07 PM »
Oh, and yes, Hobby Lobby Still Covers Vasectomies And Viagra, The Huffington Post, June 30, 2014


Ok... they do:  I'm assuming that  IT'S MANDATED, right?  Everyone has to because Dems thought this important enough to put in the health care law?  And since neither of these involves destroying innocent human life, it's completely consistent with their religious objections to abortion.  They do offer 16 of 20 contraceptives! They have the right to freedom of expression of their religious values.

Again!  No woman HAS to work for Hobby Lobby. 
           Hobby Lobby offers 16 of 20 contraceptives
           AND,  any woman who works there  will still get the other four contraceptives - free.

What is really the issue then?  The first amendment rights to freedom of religion allowing for freedom of expression of religious beliefs in one's daily life?  including one's own privately-owned business?  Instead of encouraging the destruction/ignoring of the first amendment by encouraging congresspeople to write legislation denying the right to religious expression, why not just encourage women to get those 4 methods of contraception - FREE - from another source?

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1486 on: July 11, 2014, 02:06:32 PM »
People have a right to practice their religious beliefs, but they do not have a right to force the practice of those beliefs upon other people.  I feel as though I personally am being force fed these people's beliefs totally against my will, when my Constitution is supposed to guarantee I will not have to run into and be traumatized by the religious beliefs held by others.  Hobby Lobby is supposed to be a business run for a profit, and they will never get a penny from my pocket.  Never!  They can refuse to allow their raped daughters abortions, but they cannot refuse abortions to me and mine!  It is TOTALLY unfair!  Their argument that they are personally offended and traumatized by MY having an abortion is a case of their not minding their own business, and they are interferring in my privacy.

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1487 on: July 11, 2014, 02:26:40 PM »


That Hobby Lobby pays for some methods of controlling conception and not others is the least important element in this controversy. We are at the onset of a mass of unintended consequences.  This decision will be the foundation for some very nasty results in ways we can only barely glimpse.
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1488 on: July 11, 2014, 03:45:14 PM »
That is so funny that anyone would think that what is in the health care law was ALL created by the Dems - I cannot stop howling laughing - please look at what happened - in fact most Dems wanted a single payer - it was accommodating Pharms and Insurance Companies that got the mess we have that is at least better than what we did not have and protects the many who were denied coverage because of their serious illnesses - but what is included in NOT from Dems - the bill was created in committee with strong insurance company lobbyist contributions that those congressmen who are supported by the insurance business insisted had to be contributors in creating the bill.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

nlhome

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1489 on: July 11, 2014, 04:03:55 PM »
The issue, I think, with the Hobby Lobby decision is that it opens the door to more. They may only object to 4 methods of birth control, but the next company may object to all methods. Or, as was mentioned, blood transfusions, or other medical procedures that an owner of a company believes to be against his/her religion.

 I'd rather these companies simply decide not to offer insurance benefits at all - they don't have to. That would be one more step toward the more logical single payer that our country should adopt.

As for encouraging employees to find other sources to get those 4 methods free? Where? I had not heard that.

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1490 on: July 11, 2014, 04:38:44 PM »
Especially not what with the anti-freedom of choice people, when they are not busy murdering clinic obstetrician-gynaecologists, are closing down clinics all over this country and snatching health care and birth control away from millions of women.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1491 on: July 12, 2014, 09:11:10 AM »
Thank heaven, someone spoke up.Democrats did not, repeat did not pass this by themselves and I read that over 30 companies are filing for exemptions.. all claiming religious faith and excluding in their hiring practices... gay, lesbian, and heavens knows what else. Our country was not build on exclusions. and it was built on freedom of faith, but not on exclusions.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1492 on: July 12, 2014, 10:08:03 AM »
It takes such a busybody type of mentality to join forces with people of like mentality and choose to mind other citizens PRIVATE lives!  It just flat out astonishes me!

If your neighbors are two men who love one another living together, or two women who love one another living together, chances are they will be among the best neighbors anyone could possibly have!  They will love you and take a bullet for you if you are accepting of their existence.  That's all they want, Acceptance!  As human beings who are just like you, they just make different choices according to their passions.  We are all born with different passions and different proclivities.

This country was built on the thesis that everyman's home is his castle, and even the State cannot enter without a warrant from a Judge.  But this busybody mentality wants the Church to RULE in MY BEDROOM!  I just cannot get over it!  I left the Republican party in 1980, when they let the busybodies put an anti-abortion plank in the platform.  I was very active in that party, and I protested at the top of my lungs.  "Oh, don't worry," they said.  "It is just to get the fundamentalists to vote with us, and no one ever reads the platform, anyway!"  That's what they told me, presumably to give me comfort?  I was spitting mad, and I quit the party and have never looked back.  I gave them my blood, sweat and tears for 30 years, and they were putting my womanhood and my privacy up for sale!

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1493 on: July 13, 2014, 09:39:11 AM »
The supreme court and the old men on it are frightening. They are using their own personal emotions instead of carefully thinking of what the original people had in mind. I find it so hard to believe that they are doing this.. I have never trusted Thomas ( I believed her and still do on him)and at least two of the others have no concern for ordinary citizens.. It is so sad.. We need one of them to go away and get another more liberal (preferably female) member.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1494 on: July 13, 2014, 11:51:05 AM »
I have been reading THE ASSAULT ON REASON by Al Gore, and it is so beautifully written and connects the dots regarding what is going on in this country.  Scary stuff.  It makes it clear to me that the camaraderie of a brain washed group of men fills them with an energy to soar up over practical solutions to the everyday requirements of keeping a nation of people safe, fed, housed, and educated and into the mythological realms of make believe and hubris beyond all understanding.  
In the minds of these men, "God" will not permit human beings to cause their own extinction, and all of the fairy tales predicting a "Second Coming" are as real as this day. So sad.  From the beginning of time, mankind has refused to consider the obvious and practical solutions and preferred the easy and exhilarating instead:  such as sacrificing human beings to appease the God who sends these bad things to punish us.  These days, our society of the 1% simply sacrifices the 99% in every possible sphere.  We have war, poverty, homelessness, violence, crumbling infrastructure, poisoned water, air and soil;  but that's OK, if we so unimportant masses would just pull ourselves up by our boot straps and Have Faith, we could be like them!

That is the thought that makes me shudder.  I do not WANT to be like them!

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1495 on: July 13, 2014, 01:02:19 PM »
That's the power trip - when anyone or group wants you to be like them rather than to uncover who we are as individuals that are willing to come together in groups - it is as if this group believes that success is power over others and things and money is the key to that door - that is not a formula for Democracy -

Democracy may give you individual freedom but it is not a system for one group to have power over another - now the Supreme Court has recently built that in to the system of Democracy when a collective for profit organization can be identified as an individual - one thing to even have individual rights but there is not similar punishment or restrictions in response to decisions called laws that define social responses to each other -

In other words jail time must be illegal for individuals if jail time is impossible for corporations that do not follow the law.  It is all well and good to say different punishment for different crime but if your product kills how is that different than an individual who killed and on down the line of laws.

We are now living in Alice's Wonderland - all the characters in that story are caricatures of those surrounding us and those in the news  today.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1496 on: July 13, 2014, 01:19:55 PM »
Oh, Barbara!  Bless you!  I have so often had that same response to our chaos of today:  we are living Lewis Carroll's Alice In Wonderland.

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1497 on: July 13, 2014, 09:11:49 PM »
I'm sure you've seen me say "the (space) aliens have tainted the water", or maybe it's the neocons,  ;D or somebody/thing we know nothing about. People are saying and doing such irrational things that i'm totally befuddled.

 A dear friend through high school and college and i always had a good time debating issues because his family were Repubs and we were one of a minority of Dems in our town. I've almost decided to stop corresponding with him, he's become such an ideologue and no longer has any sense of humor about our differences. He's totally for big business having no regulations and not being restricted in any way that, as he puts it "stifles innovation and progress." We are so far apart on the Holly Lobby issue, i can't believe it and i remember conversations with him when he would have been on the individual's rights side of the issue. He went to work for a major drug corporation after college and certainly drank their "water." ........of course, i also have a suspicion that he is sometimes into his cups when he writes late at night.

But it saddens me. That we can't have fun disagreements anymore.

mogamom

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1498 on: July 13, 2014, 11:34:29 PM »
Not sure how slavery enters this discussion about women having choice - and if women could have controlled when they were impregnated this would not be an issue

I used slavery as a comparison because it was legal, individual's and the state benefitted from it - but many believed it was immoral even tho it was legal.  Abortion has become big business.  

I am just trying to point out another side to the issue.  BUT PLEASE keep in mind what I'm saying:

      1.  although the country is nearly evenly divided pro-choice, pro-life:

             a.   the majority of those identifying themselves as pro-life DO agree with the exceptions of rape, incest, and life of the woman;

             b.  AND  the majority of those identifying themselves as pro-choice DO believe that there should be restrictions  (one being bantered about is the 20 week cut-off for an abortion)

Very few agree with 'abortion on demand'  AND very few agree with 'abortion always being illegal'

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/06/cnn-poll-wide-divide-over-abortion/
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/abortion/48_are_pro_choice_44_pro_life

mogamom

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1499 on: July 14, 2014, 12:01:10 AM »
Thank heaven, someone spoke up.Democrats did not, repeat did not pass this by themselves

I really don't quite know how to respond to this?  So I thought I'd post a reminder of the process of the Affordable Health Care Act:

http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=003712
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act


A bi-partisan group met with insurance providers in the beginning; the president met with those companies also.  But Republicans were left out of the process from that point on and, except for an original draft which Senator Snow voted yes to, not one single Republican voted for the House version, the Senate version or the Reconciliation.  They were in favor of more choice through an idea like the Health Savings Accounts.

Republicans were not consulted about anything in the law and, in fact, Nancy Pelosi (majority leader of the House at that time) refused to even give them a final copy of the law saying that they didn't need a copy because she didn't need any of their votes to pass it.

 At one point Republican representatives were actually physically locked out of the chambers.  They stated their ideas publically in a hallway - seen on CNN.  This whole process - passing the bill on Christmas Eve, with only Democratic (and two Independents) votes is what gave rise to the grassroots group called the Tea Party and why the Democratics lost the House in 2010.

So, honestly, I just don't know how anyone could possibly think that Republicans share ANY of the consequences of a Democratic Law - passed entirely by a Democratic House and a Democratic Senate (most of that period it was even a filibuster-proof Senate, until Scott was elected to take Ted Kennedy's seat when he passed away) and signed into law by a Democratic President.

The House nearly did not have the votes because a group of Democratics feared that the language of the bill did not provide protection against government funds used for abortions.  The President promised them (and kept his word) that he would issue an executive order after the reconciliation vote that would keep the Hyde Amendment (I think it's called) that states that no government funds would be used for abortions.

Many Democratics wanted single-payer from the beginning - that's right; but they didn't even have the votes in their own party to do that. 




Steph

  • Posts: 7952
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1500 on: July 14, 2014, 09:00:36 AM »
OK ...  am opting out. I dislike pure political discussions... Look back.. once upon a time Republicans thought quite differently. I owned retail stores and I know the side of American life that cannot even afford one day of doctors or dentists. We needed some sort of health plan.. and got it. not perfect,, but at least a start.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1501 on: July 14, 2014, 11:10:14 AM »
Wow this was a woman's discussion - we saw it as pro women not pro religious clap trap where average folks think they have more experience and knowledge than a Doctor believing they are as able as a Doctor who has a minimum of seven years of higher education - shoot I too am opting out.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

ReyHartin

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1502 on: July 14, 2014, 12:02:53 PM »
When I was growing up in the London suburbs in the 1970s, there were still some shops that had everything behind the counter - but this was not always a good thing, as the mortification of having to go into the chemist and ask for sanitary towels was almost unbearable for a teenager.  When supermarkets started to sell them and Boots became self-service, I was very happy - but my mother was scandalised - 'How can anyone put THAT on the same conveyor belt as their groceries?' - it was still very much something that was never mentioned, whereas now my daughters can buy what they need anywhere and everywhere.

My mother had a similar view of tights (panty hose) - 'they'l never catch on' - well of course they did, but these days I absolutely loathe them myself, and either wear trousers or have bare legs (despite their appearance...) and in the winter I sometimes wear the 60 denier thick black ones with shorter skirts. The thin nylon ones are just horrible, I don't know how I wore them to work all those years.

And talking about things kept behind the counter, I now see that many local convenience stores - which are fundamentally self-service - have taken to keeping not only spirits & cigarettes, but also coffee behind the desk, as presumably these are the things that are most often shoplifted.

Rosemary
Well it is the situation for the most of the girls..All you can do is to think less about negative elements of the society and live free life..

mogamom

  • Posts: 9719
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1503 on: July 14, 2014, 01:35:29 PM »
Whoooaa!

I have spent my whole adult life working with people - all ethnicities, both sexes, all religious/political persuasions.  I have also worked in the health care system - doctors are not infallible, women.  And they do have their own biases -both  male and female doctors.

I don't understand why people feel 'scandalized' and 'offended' by encountering a different viewpoint; over the past thirty years conservative women who choose more traditional roles/viewpoints have often complained that liberals don't want to hear it.  They feel that they can talk to liberals as long as they agree with them; otherwise they're expected to shut up, nod politely,  or risk scandalizing/offending them.  I was hoping for an opportunity to be their 'voice' - help bridge the communication gap that apparently exists between the two groups of women.  I apologize for my ineptness here.  No offense was intended, I assure you.   

You sound like a fine group of women.  And I would never fault anyone for holding their personal views very dear - we all do.


(Just a thought:  Nixon put a freeze on wages so, in order to attract good employees (since they couldn't offer higher wages) businesses expanded benefits; health insurance was offered.  These were always seen as benefits, not entitlements.  Hobby Lobby is well respected for their Christian values and generosity  which are apparent throughout their company.  Part time employees begin at $9/hr, full-time at $15/hr and all share in the profits of the company as this is not a public share-holding corporation, but rather a family.)

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1504 on: July 14, 2014, 02:17:59 PM »
Mary Page:  We are not like 'them'.  Altruism is big in my vocabulary; yours, too, I bet.  When a minority group/individual is castigated, I think, there but for the grace of God go I.  And organized religion has not been in my ethos since I was 14.
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

nlhome

  • Posts: 984
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1505 on: July 14, 2014, 04:36:06 PM »
I don't dislike political discussions, but this one takes me back to the 1960's and 70's, and the struggles to be more independent as a woman. Whether it was being told I could only be a teacher or a nurse if I went to college, or the fact that I couldn't get a car loan although I was working full time but my unemployed student husband could get a loan, or not having access to effective birth control at first, or having to go out and buy my male boss's cigarettes for him to smoke while he dictated to me, etc....I expected better and in my own quiet way worked for it.

I am discouraged by the strong partisanship and ugliness of the last few years, which definitely started before the Affordable Care Act, (which was passed in no more of a "underhanded" manner than whenPresident Bush got the Medicare Modernization Act passed that brought us Medicare Part D) . In my mind, there is a movement to take this country backwards, including the status of women.

mogamom

  • Posts: 9719
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1506 on: July 14, 2014, 10:21:39 PM »
A great new invention may be coming in from India.  We all share the inventor's desire to see women walk safe anywhere!

https://www.vocativ.com/world/india/rape-repellent-bra-will-shock-youliterally/

Steph

  • Posts: 7952
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1507 on: July 15, 2014, 08:03:58 AM »
I have a young conservative friend, who I had to end up blocking on facebook.She got so deep into hate that it was frightening and yet , I know at heart she is a kind gentle woman. I simply don't understand the hate.
Pantyhose.. whew, I did hate those things and thank heaven , in Florida, I don't have to see or wear them any more.. Hooray
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

  • Posts: 3725
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1508 on: July 15, 2014, 11:13:21 AM »
I don't understand the hate either, Steph.  I rail at the lack of plain, ordinary reasoning.  Time after time after time, both in the Congress and in various states, committees have subpoenad panels of ALL MEN to testify before them regarding the whole gamut of women's bodily health concerns: rape, abortion, birth control, and so on and on.  No women.  Not one single solitary woman.  Even with newspaper and TV photographers taking full shots of entire panels, there seems to be no shame on the part of these male politicians.  On the contrary, to them it seems just as the universe should be working, for why in the world would women be reliable witnesses as to their own needs?  These, and many other things, absolutely blow my mind because they seem so totally illogical.
And yes many, if not most, of these people would be folks we would like in their personal lives.  Good people.  Men who love their mothers and wives and daughters, but will turn a deaf ear to them if they have any protests re these matters.  These men have been reared to believe that their dear sweet mothers and lovely wives and precious daughters are not capable of attaining viewpoints regarding matters of state.  Period.

mrssherlock

  • Posts: 2007
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1509 on: July 15, 2014, 12:22:29 PM »
Women have been, are, and will be as poorly regarded as each wave of immigrants has been.  Not quite fully equal to a white man, maybe 60%.  The Irish, the Italians, the Germans, the Vietnamese, Chinese and Japanese, each of these was less capable or intelligent than the founding fathers.  Anyone who was worth much as a man would own property, think landed gentry back in England. Remember, too, that women could not own property,  it passed from her father to her husband.  Think sharia.  No amount of reason, logic, or just plain data can overcome that handicap.   Did you read The Stepford Wives? 
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1510 on: July 15, 2014, 12:30:47 PM »
Here's a new one from a North Carolina congresswoman, who seems to think that men talk way above women, and that they should bring things down to a woman's level.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/ellmers-urges-men-bring-policy-down-womans-level
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

MaryPage

  • Posts: 3725
Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1511 on: July 15, 2014, 12:44:11 PM »
I believe this nation is a melting pot, and the more the blending, the more it is so.  It does not disturb me that we will have a majority of non-white;  not one speck.  A human being is a human being is a human being.

That being said, and truly meant right from my heart AND my reasoning centers, I have always marveled at the fact that our constitution FIRST found black slaves, male & female alike, to be less than a person when counting heads to name the number of the population.  Less than a full person.  Get that.  They were counted as three-fifths of a person!  Read it and see for yourselves!

THEN, when the slaves were freed, all black men could vote.  They suddenly became fully people, as was only right, but white women, who just hours before and from the beginning of our nation had been considered SUPERIOR to blacks, including black men, were suddenly LESS THAN black men in the matter of voting but more than black men in the matter of courtesy and personal prejudice.  In short, a black man better not even GLANCE at a white woman, or he could be and frequently WOULD be lynched.  But he could vote.  Oh, he was hugely discouraged by all manner of threats against his life, his well-being, his employment, and his family, from daring register to vote.  But the irony is that our constitution now permitted him full citizenship including the right to vote, and it was still denied to white women.  To all women, of course, black and white, but you get, by now, the point I am trying to make.

Men do not seem to have a speck of trouble adjusting facts to fit their peculiar logic, rather than actually BE logical and closely examine the facts!

ReyHartin

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1512 on: July 15, 2014, 01:21:57 PM »
When I was growing up in the London suburbs in the 1970s, there were still some shops that had everything behind the counter - but this was not always a good thing, as the mortification of having to go into the chemist and ask for sanitary towels was almost unbearable for a teenager.  When supermarkets started to sell them and Boots became self-service, I was very happy - but my mother was scandalised - 'How can anyone put THAT on the same conveyor belt as their groceries?' - it was still very much something that was never mentioned, whereas now my daughters can buy what they need anywhere and everywhere.

My mother had a similar view of tights (panty hose) - 'they'l never catch on' - well of course they did, but these days I absolutely loathe them myself, and either wear trousers or have bare legs (despite their appearance...) and in the winter I sometimes wear the 60 denier thick black ones with shorter skirts. The thin nylon ones are just horrible, I don't know how I wore them to work all those years.

And talking about things kept behind the counter, I now see that many local convenience stores - which are fundamentally self-service - have taken to keeping not only spirits &
ecigs, but also coffee behind the desk, as presumably these are the things that are most often shoplifted.

Rosemary

Well it is the situation for the most of the girls..All you can do is to think less about negative elements of the society and live free life..
Different persons have different opinions..

jane

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1513 on: July 15, 2014, 01:57:33 PM »
Maryz....It's hard to believe a female politician would say such things in this day and age.


MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1514 on: July 15, 2014, 02:24:09 PM »
I do not see it that way, Dear Jane.  I mean, I know where you are coming from, but I have heard and seen too much in my time.  It does not seem to matter their education or standard of living or personal status;  certain women will have a worship of men gene in their makeup, and no amount of reasonable argument will make them believe men are not to adore.  From desperate poor to society matron, they will go all twittery at a man just glancing their way, let alone flattering them.
Please believe me when I say I am not a man hater.  I flat out adored my late husband, and love my three sons and my horde of great grandsons, not to mention many others.  I have felt deep admiration for many statesmen:  a few now, but alas, most of them long departed as well.
No, my point is men as a controlling group contain a majority that honestly feel they were made superior in every way and must act upon that belief.  Happily my husband and my sons have been in agreement with me on this point.  And yes, there are women who will cheer for the superiority of men and denigrate their own brains.  But thank god there are also women, from desperate poor to society matron, who will fight for their right to be counted as equal.  Or better.

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1515 on: July 15, 2014, 06:05:00 PM »
OMG Maryz - thanks for posting that, we have to know that those folks are out there so we can be alert to guarding against them.  ??? But that's incredible........"a leftist reporter......." huh? Why do these folks try to slide out of having said something when EVERTHING is on tape these days........well, i guess if they were smart they wouldn't be saying such dumb things.

Jean

mogamom

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1516 on: July 16, 2014, 12:36:33 AM »
Thank you for the post, MaryZ.  I look forward to the follow-up report and the audio clip.

I am weary of the 'talking points', manipulation, 'spin' and marketing tools so often being used.  Even if I don't agree with someone's reasoning, or have reached a different conclusion, I appreciate their respectful discussion of their points on an issue.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1517 on: July 16, 2014, 08:43:15 AM »
I think that when we did not  have 24 hour news cycles, life was a bit calmer..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

ginny

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1518 on: July 19, 2014, 11:55:08 AM »
I agree with that. The world has changed dramatically.

There was an interesting article in the Sunday NY Times a coup0le of weeks ago on yellow journalism, and how it and anchors of various TV shows encite emotions and anger in the reader/viewer in which the true facts are obscured but the ranting and outrage runs high. This is our new society.

This morning I was flipping thru the channels fixing lunch when I happened on an  A&E show called Flipping Las Vegas or something like that. I thought I'd watch a minute. The main character, Scott, during an argument over kitchen counters grabbed the throat of the woman he was angry at (for real he actually laid hands on her) who he thought had made a mistake in ordering (she hadn't) and jokingly? went on about he might choke her if that were the case. He had quite a grip on that throat as it was. The woman was visibly upset (I hope she's not married to him) and when the incident was straightened out, she was near tears but he not only did not apologize he went right on about his budget woes.

In attempting to express disgust to A&E I went to their home website. No forum was on their menu, but after clicking a contact icon, one of those duck people suddenly filled the screen saying, "It's not here. Use the MENU, Jack."

Jack found the feedback on another link from google and let them have it.  Lovely thing for children to see Saturday mornings at 11:30. I cannot STAND to see people victimized, either in words or physically.
May 13 is our last day of class for the 2023-2024 school year.  Ask about our Summer Reading Opportunities.

mrssherlock

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1519 on: July 19, 2014, 05:00:43 PM »
Ginny:  Please post that link so I can comment too.  Scott is an evil man who verbally abuses everyone who works for his company. 
I have a grudge against I don't know who.  I like games to keep my brain sharp.  Hidden Objects are my passion now.  There is a short 'story' to set he scene then various 'rooms' are pictured with 10 or so items hidden in plain view. A feather is quite common and a coffee cup, tea kettle, bird, snail, nail, etc.  I began to notice how often a cigarette and/or a lighter, or a pack of cigs was showing up.  This is outrageous,  Most of the players are children and this is blatantly suggestive. ( I can't find a example but when I do I'll post it.)
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke