Author Topic: Poetry Page  (Read 725189 times)

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4400 on: September 07, 2016, 10:17:55 AM »
Our Poetry Page Reads
Shakespeare Sonnets


2016 the world commemorates
400 years since the death of William Shakespeare.



April, 1616. A man died, but a legacy was born; one which proved
so essential not only to the development of
drama and literature, but to language, to thoughts and ideas.


A Sonnet a Day
July 1, till December 1,
We read in order, from 1 to 154
A Shakespeare Sonnet each day.


Welcome
Please share your comments about the day's Sonnet.

Link: First Post of Our Discussion on July 1


Shakespeare Anniversary Links
Discussion Leaders: Barb
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4401 on: September 07, 2016, 10:18:36 AM »
Oh dear, as you say Leah, "AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IT" - "OUCH" indeed -

Had to laugh at these lines that unusual and a first that I can recall of all the Sonnets we have read so far - a three line sentence -

But those same tongues that give thee so thine own
In other accents do this praise confound
By seeing farther than the eye hath shown.


I laughed because it sounds like my downfall - just never know how to stop - a stream of thoughts erupts and flows with no dams constructed with a period now and then...  ;) ah so.

Sad Leah on the tomatoes - nothing like a freshly picked tomato scarfed down before you even leave the garden.  Was there too much rain this year do you think? Never tried cherry tomatoes but never liked planting those beefy sized tomatoes either.  Have you always gardened or is this a new endeavor?

For sure fall has started - amazing - the rain of acorns hitting the roof, patio and pinging off the metal ACs - sounds like a rain storm. The deer are having a field day.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4402 on: September 07, 2016, 10:31:43 AM »
Leah, this is interesting about your tomatoes.  We planted four tomato plants, two of the big ones, and two cherry.  Our tomatoes did not do well either.  My neighbor also planted tomato plants and her tomatoes are exactly as you described yours, a maroon color with splitting.  I picked our green ones and placed them on my kitchen window sill and they are finally getting red after days of being there.  My neighbor gave me one of her huge maroon/split ones and the red juice from it almost stained my plate which is very weird. I have never seen such a red dye in tomatoes, and my family planted gardens for years and years. What I also noticed this year was the overabundance and brilliance in all my flowers, annuals and perennials this Spring and summer.  All my friends noticed the same with theirs.  Our season flowers bloomed beautifully, went into their dormant stage afterwards but then bloomed again which has never happened.  I do wonder if climate change has something to do with it.

Barb, 
Quote
I laughed because it sounds like my downfall - just never know how to stop - a stream of thoughts erupts and flows with no dams constructed with a period now and then...  ;) ah so.

This made me almost spit my coffee out laughing when I read it.  You do have some lengthy posts, Shakespeare would be proud....  lololol
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4403 on: September 07, 2016, 10:50:34 AM »
Sonnet LXIX

But why thy odour matcheth not thy show,
   The solve is this, that thou dost common grow.


Ughh..... this entire sonnet wreaked of pompous a prejudice as far as I am concerned.  Shakespeare as always is going on about the outward beauty and says friends can well see it, but once they begin to secretly think of what is inside they then don't feel it matches the outside beauty.  So he determines they are nothing but commoners, who in his judgement would fail to know greatness and beauty if it bit them in the nose. 

This sonnet reminded me of the Plato's quote, "Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder." 
My dear Shakespeare, I am afraid to disappoint you but, not everyone sees the beauty as you do.

“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4404 on: September 07, 2016, 01:20:08 PM »
Ouch is right.
 
For most of the poem, it looks like he's going to end up with a compliment.  He calls the beloved's detractors churls for saying bad things about him, and you think he's going to say those churls just don't understand you.  But no--he turns it all around in the final couplet.  The answer to "why thy odor matcheth not thy show"? is "thou dost common grow".

Whatever the beloved did must have really ticked off the poet.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4405 on: September 08, 2016, 01:38:26 AM »
Interesting the symbolism of how we associate 'weeds' with the peasants front yard versus, the manicured lawns of the right and noble which promotes the idea that it is right and noble behavior that brings success. So a weedy yard is someone not trying and someone who is not a success regardless if it a weedy front yard or the weedy gossip they engage - and darn it all I do not enjoy looking at manicured lawns - prefer the wild woods look that encourages birds and wildlife - me or my - I must scare the heck out of my conservative Republican neighbors...

Sounds like Shakespeare is similar to my neighbors, wanting from his acquaintances manicured lawns in spirit as well as in their small talk - now that would be interesting - I wonder if there are any scholars who have studied the man and his writings to learn his political philosophy - If he was hiding his Catholic faith, as some scholars propose he sure had to have a manicured lawn approach to life. Hmm I wonder if that was his fear since his livelihood depends on a stamp of approval from the crown he dances on thin wire with plays he wrote that risked so much that he just could not also risk gossip that would cast him as anything but a loyalist.

Looks like gossip was high stakes that could lead to death - Two wonderful history links that give a good account first, of how the Globe on the South Bank came about and Shakespeare's second theater that we seldom hear about. Much push and pull here with gossip, loyalty to the queen, individual power all come into play.

http://www.historyextra.com/article/culture/shakespeare-london-playing-dangerous-game-globe

And then, this startling short essay also from the BBC History Magazine with lots of prints telling us of the shove and push between Elizabeth and any discovered Catholic which is a window to how many of Shakespeare's connections had to secret their lives.

http://www.historyextra.com/article/elizabeth-i/elizabeth-i%E2%80%99s-war-england%E2%80%99s-catholics

 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4406 on: September 08, 2016, 01:54:46 AM »
Shakespeare Sonnet LXX



That thou art blamed shall not be thy defect,
For slander's mark was ever yet the fair;
The ornament of beauty is suspect,
A crow that flies in heaven's sweetest air.
So thou be good, slander doth but approve
Thy worth the greater, being woo'd of time:
For canker vice the sweetest buds doth love,
And thou present'st a pure unstained prime.
Thou hast pass'd by the ambush of young days,
Either not assail'd or victor being charg'd;
Yet this thy praise cannot be so thy praise,
To tie up envy, evermore enlarg'd:
   If some suspect of ill mask'd not thy show,
   Then thou alone kingdoms of hearts should'st owe. 

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZR0Snhn8gk
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4407 on: September 08, 2016, 10:14:10 AM »
Barb,
Quote
and darn it all I do not enjoy looking at manicured lawns - prefer the wild woods look that encourages birds and wildlife - me or my - I must scare the heck out of my conservative Republican neighbors...

I have quite a few liberal Democrats for neighbors who have perfectly manicured lawns and use lawn service to make sure they have no weeds, so I don't think we can stereotype people political views, by their lawns.   But I am beginning to see Shakespeare as a pompous ass regardless of his political, religious or sexual preference.  :)

Sonnet LXX

Yet more of Shakespeare babbling on about the beauty and how others are jealous so they try to mar the beauty with gossip.  I so hope this takes a turn because for me it is becoming repetitious and annoying.   
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Leah

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4408 on: September 08, 2016, 11:49:08 AM »
The poet could not just say nothing in defense of the beloved, so completely enamored is he. His obsessive attentiveness to criticisms of the beloved's beauty is as much in defense of the worthiness of the beloved as it is of his own unstoppable passion for the one he, too, has accused of wronging him in previous sonnets.

Give him a break, Bellamarie, the guy just cannot rein it in! 😍💋🌹🌠💎💌❤️💔💜💙💚💛

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4409 on: September 08, 2016, 11:56:06 AM »
Leah,  You made me laugh out loud!!!  :) :) :)  I would love to give him a break, but there is a limit to my patience.  These sonnets began with his undying admiration and endless thoughts of the perfection of procreation and his love for his young male love, went into the depression of losing said love, then now we are back to the endless beauty, and chastising those who do not see it his way.  Grrr.....   ::)
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4410 on: September 08, 2016, 12:32:52 PM »
Really?!? ???  Hopelessly in Love?!? ::)  Yup...! :)  Awwww  8)

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Leah

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4411 on: September 08, 2016, 12:49:27 PM »
Where is Pat in all this?! We need her measured voice to calm us all down! 👀

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4412 on: September 08, 2016, 12:50:09 PM »
Aww just when we were having some fun -
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4413 on: September 09, 2016, 02:06:10 AM »
Shakespeare Sonnet LXXI


No longer mourn for me when I am dead
Then you shall hear the surly sullen bell
Give warning to the world that I am fled
From this vile world, with vilest worms to dwell:
Nay, if you read this line, remember not
The hand that writ it; for I love you so
That I in your sweet thoughts would be forgot
If thinking on me then should make you woe.
O, if, I say, you look upon this verse
When I perhaps compounded am with clay,
Do not so much as my poor name rehearse.
But let your love even with my life decay,
   Lest the wise world should look into your moan
   And mock you with me after I am gone.

William Shakespeare Sonnet 71
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOmGLvOpHuk
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4414 on: September 09, 2016, 02:15:16 AM »
Sure makes a difference the circumstance that words are said - Each generation has its own catastrophe and so these words continue - they remind me of someone in the tower making their last call...

If you have not been listening to the poems on youtube, today you may want to take a look just to see the video photos that are quite moving.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4415 on: September 09, 2016, 05:36:34 PM »
Sonnet LXXI

No longer mourn for me when I am dead


Why is it whenever I hear these words it makes me feel like the person is really saying the opposite?  It just seems mute, because if a person mourns someone there is nothing that can prevent it.  It is a natural stage.  What seems ironic to me in this sonnet is that Shakespeare has spent days writing about his depression for this young love who has left and betrayed him, yet for some reason assumes he needs to write to tell him not to mourn him once he is gone.  Does that not seem a bit presumptuous of him?  I ask this rhetorically. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4416 on: September 09, 2016, 06:18:56 PM »
Bellamarie - my thought is he is not himself - if you are filled with fear - fear of death or fear that the solution to what ever has a hold on him is death - anyone filled with fear is not thinking - the fear fills your whole being. Part of aging is coming to terms with your own death. Many are filled with fear as they struggle to accept their mortality. They do think of their loved ones with the only conclusion they can imagine which they hope with words they can minimize their loved one's pain of mourning.

It reminds me of going through the stages of grief that has been the process for those who have experienced the death of a loved one - so that to face your own mortality is as if grieving for your own life and of the steps in grief one of the steps is bargaining... (denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance)

When he says, 'do not mourn me' he could be  feeling the fear this love interest will not mourn him and so he is protecting himself from that possibility by saying upfront do not mourn me - or another possibility is - he wants to imagine this love interest to be as he pictures the person in good spirits looking as beautiful as he has been describing them.

I could imagine a loved one making his or her last call from the Tower on 9/11 saying some of the same thing - his or her last wish is to say, please stay happy and live life fully - do not to waste it by mourning me - I know since my life is about to end is what the person is thinking therefore, they see the waste of a life lived in mourning. So maybe it is a sincere request.

Again, we each see these poems differently - and so you may be seeing something that supports your thoughts about how people communicate what they want.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4417 on: September 09, 2016, 10:28:26 PM »
This is one of the really good sonnets.  Does he really want the beloved to forget him?  Who knows, probably not, he's hoping that won't be possible.  But look how beautifully he says it:

No longer mourn for me when I am dead
Then you shall hear the surly sullen bell
Give warning to the world that I am fled

and the ending:

Lest the wise world should look into your moan
And mock you with me after I am gone.

That's so poignantly true.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4418 on: September 10, 2016, 04:03:43 AM »
Shakespeare Sonnet LXXII


O, lest the world should task you to recite
What merit lived in me, that you should love
After my death, -- dear love, forget me quite,
For you in me can nothing worthy prove;
Unless you would devise some virtuous lie,
To do more for me than mine own desert,
And hang more praise upon deceased I
Than niggard truth would willingly impart:
O, lest your true love may seem false in this,
That you for love speak well of me untrue,
My name be buried where my body is,
And live no more to shame nor me nor you.
   For I am sham'd by that which I bring forth,
   And so should you, to love things nothing worth. 

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 72
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQSlEDzryho
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4419 on: September 10, 2016, 04:07:48 PM »
Oh my now it seems Shakespeare is beating himself up and doesn't see himself worthy of being thought of or spoken about in a good light after he is dead.  I suppose he could be feeling ashamed of the love he has for this young male, knowing it could never be known publicly. 

Sorry, I just am not seeing these after I am gone, forget me because I am nothing, type of sonnets in any positive light.  Nothing beautiful in these sonnets for me, if anything I see he is extremely depressed and could even be considering suicide, while writing these words.  I don't think he is fearing death, I think he is contemplating taking his own life as a way of ending all his pain.  These sonnets sound like suicide letters for his young love to find after he is gone.  Suicide occurs thirteen times in his plays, more often than any other of his contemporaries.  I see it highly possible he could have considered it in his real life.  I read just four weeks prior to his death he made out his last will and testament leaving everything to his daughter Susan, not his wife Ann Hathaway.  The cause of his death is unknown. 

Yes, we all see things differently, and this is what I see. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Leah

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4420 on: September 10, 2016, 06:50:56 PM »
How low can you go? He's doing the Limbo, all right.
Although he seems to be expressing that his sonnets are lacking in worth (possibly because they have not been very successful in 'buying' the beloved's affection?), they remain his primary medium of exchange. Perhaps he is depressed, but apparently not depressed enough to have lost the "Will" (pun) to write. Bipolar, maybe - like Sylvia Plath.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4421 on: September 10, 2016, 07:19:10 PM »
Golly... nothing... just nothing whew - Leah sure sounds like depression beyond the ordinary doesn't it...

Ashamed does not fit the Shakespeare we know today but it sure sounds like that in this poem doesn't it Bellamaire - not much else to add - have to agree this one is a real downer.

As to leaving everything to his daughter - makes sense - he wife was even older than he was and she had no legal authority so that who knows upon her death how or if his daughter would benefit - he had another daughter that from what I've read, separated herself from the family or, others say he separated himself from her - so who knows but by leaving everything to Susan her husband would then be able to legally pass on any wealth. Could be he could depend on this daughter to take care of his wife and maybe the other daughter was so estranged there was no assurance she would care for his wife in her old age or maybe the other daughter was married to a putes who would squander all the wealth. Then there is the whole legal issue of women in the seventeenth century.

Well whatever - enough - not a memorable poem except for its lack - this is when the best thing is we do one a day and tomorrow is a new day... ;)
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4422 on: September 10, 2016, 09:24:27 PM »
Let's hope he's hit bottom here.  I agree; he seems to be talking about his poetry when he says don't try to inflate my worth after I'm gone.  You'll have to lie in order to say anything good.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4423 on: September 11, 2016, 12:08:26 AM »
Oh yes, Pat let's hope this is the bottom and from here on there will only be up - we can only hope...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4424 on: September 11, 2016, 03:31:33 AM »
Shakespeare Sonnet LXXIII


That time of year thou may'st in me behold
When yellow leaves, or none, or few, do hang
Upon those boughs which shake against the cold,
Bare ruin'd choirs, where late the sweet birds sang.
In me thou see'st the twilight of such day,
As after sunset fadeth in the west,
Which by-and-by black night doth take away,
Death's second self, that seals up all in rest.
In me thou see'st the glowing of such fire
That on the ashes of his youth doth lie,
As the death-bed whereon it must expire
Consum'd with that which it was nourish'd by.
   This thou perceivest, which makes thy love more strong,
   To love that well which thou must leave ere long.

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 73
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpVEqXZzK18
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4425 on: September 11, 2016, 01:23:12 PM »
This Sonnet reminds me of these words by Russian author Yevgeny Zamyatin, even more poignant since he was a very early 'Orwell', writing books about one State as the great Benefactor, there are no individuals, only numbers and then this... that also can be a metaphor to aging.

But you can’t plead with autumn.
No.
The midnight wind stalked through the woods,
hooted to frighten you,
swept everything away 
for the approaching winter,
whirled the leaves.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4426 on: September 11, 2016, 09:01:46 PM »
Barb, thanks for that excellent poem; I didn't even know Zamyatkin was a poet.  (He wrote We, a forerunner of 1984.)

PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4427 on: September 11, 2016, 10:27:52 PM »
This is another of the good ones.  He's still talking about death, but I don't see it as depressed.  He says first, that his beloved can see in him the marks of aging.  There are three examples, one for each of the three quatrains.  The first is trees, with most of their leaves dropped; bare ruined choirs.  That phrase makes my hair stand on end.  I think of a path through bare trees, with the uplifted, intersecting pattern of their branches mimicking the stone tracery of cathedral windows with the glass gone.

Then he says he's like the twilight of a day, the sunset fading.  I had trouble with "Death's second self", but I guess it means that darkness takes away as death does.

But the third one really got to me.  He's the glowing fire, now dying down:

"Consumed with that which it was nourished by."  The same flame which fueled his brilliance is now using up his remaining substance.

And finally,

This thou perceivest, which makes thy love most strong,
To love that well that thou must leave ere long.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4428 on: September 12, 2016, 12:11:24 AM »
PatH that was the line I also had the most difficult time trying to dope out - I never really did -
Death's second self, that seals up all in rest.

Not understanding what is a Death that is a second self I decided that one line did not subtract from the overall Sonnet and its metaphors -

It is quite a poignantly worded poem that captures the end, not just of life but our many naive and youthful ideals and experiences. To me the Sonnet was so delicate it reminds me of dancing on tissue paper.

OH and yes, Bare ruin'd choirs like an echo of the past with birds nesting in the skeleton of a ruin or in winter's empty tree branches. It is so delicate I hate to let it go and yet, it almost hurts to hang on. 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4429 on: September 12, 2016, 12:56:22 AM »
Shakespeare Sonnet LXXIV



But be contented: when that fell arrest
Without all bail shall carry me away,
My life hath in this line some interest,
Which for memorial still with thee shall stay.
When thou reviewest this, thou dost review
The very part was consecrate to thee:
The earth can have but earth, which is his due;
My spirit is thine, the better part of me:
So then thou hast but lost the dregs of life,
The prey of worms, my body being dead,
The coward conquest of a wretch's knife,
Too base of thee to be remembered.
   The worth of that is that which it contains,
   And that is this, and this with thee remains. 

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 74
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NOrVO2Mi4E
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4430 on: September 12, 2016, 12:58:00 AM »
Except these Sonnets are about the writer' death if they were about another I guess they would be Elegies -
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4431 on: September 12, 2016, 02:43:21 AM »
Sonnet LXXIII

I like this sonnet even though he is referring to his death.  If you read it without thinking of him dying, I like all that fits into this particular time of year, it actually almost fit perfectly with my granddaughter's bonfire birthday party Saturday evening. Before the party began, I was sitting out on our swing in our backyard watching the birds in the trees that have been turning Fall colors, I actually saw many groups of birds flying in the V formation and thought about how it won't be long before they fly south for the winter because it will be too cold for them, and the barren trees will not provide them safety from the snow.  Then as Shakespeare mentions the embers still burning on the ashes, I thought of  the last embers in our fire pit slowly burning out after all the kids had left and my hubby and I sat watching the last embers dying out.  As all the kids left from the party I thought about how my sweet fourteen year old granddaughter Avery will have these memories to last her a lifetime.  She could not thank me and my hubby enough times for letting her have the party at our house.  And the best part of the night was when about thirty teens all ended up jumping in our inground pool with all their clothes on.  They said the water felt like bath water, but when they got out into the chilled night air they were freezing wrapped all up in beach towels, afghans and blankets I ran into the house to collect.  Oh how fun it was to see these youthful teens being so crazy and impulsive.  Then it was roasting marshmallows to make s'mores, and next they decided it was ding dong ditch time..... they go around to my neighbors ringing their doorbells and running away.  Luckily I alerted my neighbors ahead of time about the party so they didn't mind at all. 

This thou perceiv’st, which makes thy love more strong,
  To love that well which thou must leave ere long.


Yes, my dear Shakespeare I fear no one really does realize how valuable a person's love is, until they have lost it, especially to the person dying. 

Instead of seeing this sonnet in a sad light, after enjoying watching the teens at the bonfire party, living life to the fullest, I saw this sonnet in a complete different light than he wrote it. 



p.s.  Yes, I am up in the wee hours of the night from overactive partying, and too much cappuccino tonight.  Yawn... ready to go back up and try to sleep again, we have one more day of birthday celebrations, Avery's sister Kenzie turns 21 today and we are meeting her at the casino for lunch and her first legal gambling and alcoholic beverage.  Hope she doesn't lose all her $20.00 in one slot machine! 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Leah

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4432 on: September 12, 2016, 10:59:44 AM »
SONNET 73
Death's second self - I thought this was a reference to sleep; I remember from High school English class hearing it referred to as "the little death."

As for "bare ruined choirs" I was reminded of a book I read a while back called "Dissolution" (author C.J. Sansom) that takes place during Henry VIII's reign (I think it was) when the monasteries were being shut down or something to that effect. I don't even know if that would fit the timelines involved - but I bet Barb and Pat know!! 🤓

Leah

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4433 on: September 12, 2016, 11:53:29 AM »
SONNET 74
The dark cloud over the poet's preoccupation with the approaching end of his life seems to have moved on for now, he has at least returned to taking pride in the worthiness of his verses. . After the demise of his body (I am choosing to interpret Time as the "coward conquest of a wretch's knife"), the verse remains as a memorial to both the poet and the beloved.

"The worth of that is that which it contains,
     Both the worth of the body as the vehicle for the poet's soul/spirit - the memorable essence of him that will continue to reside in his poetry AND the worth of the verse as praise and testament to the beauty of the beloved.
     As if the body as carrier of his soul will morph into, or dare I say? - be resurrected in his poetry.     
     His 'body of work' so to say.

And that is this, and this with thee remains."
     And that which is "this" and "that" will also stay with the beloved.




PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4434 on: September 12, 2016, 12:15:14 PM »
That timeline would fit.  Henry VIII died in 1547, and was indeed the one who shut down the monasteries during his wrangles with the church.  Shakespeare was born in 1564, when Elizabeth was queen, and died in 1616, by which time James was king.  So there were plenty of ruined church buildings around.

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4435 on: September 12, 2016, 05:40:25 PM »
Sonnet LXXIV

When thou reviewest this, thou dost review
The very part was consecrate to thee:
The earth can have but earth, which is his due;
My spirit is thine, the better part of me:


He is leaving his spirit/poems, which he sees the best part of him, to his lost love.



“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4436 on: September 12, 2016, 09:50:04 PM »
Been out of pocket today - they've been building two additional lanes on the highway nearby and the wind was such that the fumes blew into the house all day - oh oh throat raw and sick to tummy - not into anything more than my pillow much less Shakespeare - Air in house clearing out thank goodness -

In the meantime such a great group of posts - Bellamarie love the quote just perfect... and what a lovely memory for your granddaughter - so perfect reading how you associated the embers in the dying fire with the end of a wonderful evening that is a theme included in the Sonnet - now that is living poetry isn't it.

Leah looks like Pat answered - sure was in the time of church destruction - thinking about it, most churches, especially in rural England, would have been the largest most prominent building so it must have been traumatic to see them destroyed and then for years seeing these burnt out structure dominating the landscape. Almost as if 15 years later the remains of the twin towers stayed as the day after picture etched in our memory similar to the iconic photos showing the tilting outside walls - Talk about 'dark clouds', how devastating that would be to live with these hulking remains dotting the countryside as tense reminders of this black time in history. I would think easy to associate them with death.

Those two lines seem to say it all don't they about his consecrating to her or him the better part of himself

The very part was consecrate to thee:


My spirit is thine, the better part of me:


Wow and that last line almost sounds like a tongue twister or a children's jump rope game - that this, this thee.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4437 on: September 13, 2016, 02:40:29 AM »
From Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4438 on: September 13, 2016, 02:52:27 AM »
A fairly well known longer piece from As You Like It about aging - the seven ages of man... which fits these few Sonnets about aging and death.

All the World’s a Stage

All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first, the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms.
Then the whining schoolboy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honor, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon’s mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slippered pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side;
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank, and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4439 on: September 13, 2016, 02:52:50 AM »
Trying to fill in these last 3 posts so we can start fresh with the Sonnet for the day on the same page as the page we share our thoughts about the Sonnet...

Archived and protected are items from Shakespeare's house - among the items is the book John Gerarde, The Herball, 1597 Below is a copied page from The Herball illustrating; the King Apple - the Quining or Queene Apple - the fommer Pearmaine - the winter Pearmaine.

A Pearmaine is An old English variety with uncertain origins, primarily a cooking apple but sweetens in storage.


A fommer Pearmaine is also known as a Pippin.  Apples, at the end of a meal are mentioned in Shakespeare's "The Merry Wives of Windsor";  I will make an end to my dinner: there’s pippins and cheese to come.

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe