Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online

[JoanP]

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Bleak House                           
by Charles Dickens

                     

Bleak House is the 10th novel by Charles Dickens, published in twenty monthly installments between March 1852 and September 1853. It is held to be one of Dickens's finest novels, containing one of the most vast, complex and engaging arrays of minor characters and sub-plots in his entire canon. The story is told partly by the novel's heroine, Esther Summerson, and partly by an omniscient narrator. The story revolves around the mystery of Esther Summerson's mother and it involves a murder story and one of English fiction's earliest detectives, Inspector Bucket. Most of all, though, the story is about love and how it can cut through human tangles and produce a happy ending. The house where Dickens lived spent summers with his family, beginning in 1850, is said to have inspired his novel of the same name.  Among others, he wrote David Copperfield in this house.

A New Meaning in the Roman  (click to enlarge)

INSTALMENT XV XVI

DATE of PUBLICATION    May. 1853 June 1853

CHAPTERS 47-49  50-53

DISCUSSION DATES Apr. 26-Apr. 30  May 1- May 5

Friendly Behaviour of Mr. Bucket (click to enlarge)

                Some Topics to Consider

Chapter  XLVII  Jo's Will 1. Was it just a coincidence that  that Allan Woodcourt took Jo to Miss Flite's and then to Mr. George's shooting range for his last days, the same path Gridley followed?   2. Why does Mr. George risk taking Jo in?  And why does Allan Woodcourt send for John Jarndyce? 3. What did you understand by the title of the first  chapter of this Installment: Jo's Will? 4. How does the doctor show that he regards Jo as more than a sick animal in need of comfort?  5.  "Dead your majesty, lords and gentlemen.  Right/Wrong Reverends.  Dying thus around us everyday"  Is Dickens' message  to his readers clear enough?. Chapter XLVIII  Closing In 1. Lady Dedlock, her pride beaten down, ready to flee.  But where will she go?  Do you understand why she is sending Rosa away at this time? 2. Why does Sir Leceister speak in favor of keeping Rosa at Chesney Wold, while Mr. Rouncewell speaks in favor of dismissing her from the Dedlock patronage?  An interesting turn of events! 3. Why does M. Tuklinghorn disapprove of Lady Dedlock's decision?  How does this violate their agreement?  Do you believe he really intends to   "undeceive"  Sir Leceister? 4.  Do you know how far it is from Chesney Wold to Lincoln's Inn on foot?  How long did it take Mr. Tulkinghorn to get home, for example?  Did he walk?  Where has Lady Dedlock gone on foot?  5. What was that Roman on the ceiling, a paralyzed dumb witness, pointing at?  Can you find Dickens' exact words? Chapter XLIX  Dutiful Friendship  1.  Mrs. Bagnet's happy  birthday celebration. Where did Mr. George find the money to get her that beautiful brooch? 2. Do you believe that Detective Bucket showed up at the Bagnets' looking for a wiollencellar or did he know that Mr. George would be there? 3.  When did you become aware that the detective had something else on his mind, other than wiollencellars? 4. A good question - "What is public life without private ties?" Do you think this is Dickens asking?  Does Bucket seem to have both? 5.  Does Bucket seem to have  a good case against Mr. George?  Do you think he'd try to get the reward if he believed there was a chance George was innocent?.

   

Related Links:
  Characters in Bleak House by Groups;  Map of London  1851 (double click); UNSOLVED MYSTERIES ; Interactive Map of London

 

                                                 

Bleak House  "A dreary name," said the Lord Chancellor. "But not a dreary place at present, my lord," said Mr. Kenge.

DLs:  JoanP, Marcie, PatH, Babi,  JoanK  

[BarbStAubrey]

Excerpt from Babi's quote -

only may and can, or shall and will, be reclaimed according to somebody’s theory but nobody’s practice.

sounds like the first words of that sentence could be the Law, the Chancery or even either Vholes or Tulkinghorn. We say the dead are bodies with the soul gone elsewhere and that is how I see the description by Dickens of the practice of the law and the lawyers - although, I do not see Guppy falling into this description - He may not be the noblest but he does show feelings and depth that is not covered in avarice or secrets.

I thought I read that it was Bucket who helped Jo escape - I did not go back and find the sentence nor did I go back and see who was at Bleak House when Jo was brought from the Bricklayer's cottage. Something about Bucket getting Jo to a hospital and then urging him to move on out of London and that was why Jo was slipping along trying not to be seen when he was with Doc Woodcourt.

Just thought sounds like the homeless today - they need to slip along and not be seen in many cities where the police will move them along and suggest they leave town.

[Laura]

Well, we know the person who took Jo away was a man anyway, because at the end of the installment, Jo says he won’t leave the resting/hiding place that Mr. Woodcourt finds for him, “not unless I wos to see him a-coming, sir.”  I’m sure the identity of the man will be revealed yet.

Back to Chapter 44, The Letter and the Answer.  The letter asked Esther, would she “be the mistress of Bleak House?”  I didn’t find the letter suggesting the proposal/wedding of Esther and Mr. Jarndyce to be that odd, but I found the phrase, “be the mistress of Bleak House” to be odd.  On one hand, it does make the title of the book seem more appropriate to me.  I was wondering why the book was called the Bleak House when it didn’t seem to be as much a focal point as I expected it to be.  However, when our heroine, Esther, becomes mistress of Bleak House, the book title takes on new significance for me.  On the other hand, Mr. Jarndyce’s proposal seemed to be more of a business arrangement, based on the filter through which we are able to view it, Esther’s commentary.  But, then, Esther put her arms around Mr. Jarndyce’s neck and kissed him, so I guess it was not just a business proposal afterall.  Thoughts?

[JoanP]

Laura, I'm certain Esther is grateful for all Mr. J. has done for her - and for his understanding when she tells him she knows who her mother is.  I thought it a bit odd that the day after she reveals her secret to him, he proposes to her, asking her to become Mistress of Bleak House..  Does he love her?  He says she's changed him - done him a world of good - BUT, didn't  he give her those keys and turn over the housekeeping right after she arrived?  It's almost as if he has been training her for the role all along.

Isn't it clear that she  loves Allan Woodcourt?  What now?

[BarbStAubrey]

John Jarndyce is almost a shadow taking on all these folks and seeing to their future but we really know little about him. Doesn't sound like a romantic man or for that matter a man who has feelings - he seems to know and acknowledge taking care of other folks feelings but his own are in a shadow.

You almost have to wonder if he is making sure Esther is not left alone and is taking care of her again with a proposal - he may think the scaring of her face is a hindrance that he just did not let it show but he fears that other possible love interests would be put off and so why not marry - he does everything he can for those he knows about.

I love the way Dickens describes the countryside - he describes towns but for me his poetic turn comes through when he is describing the countryside or the night. Oh I cannot forget the bit about Jo like vapor of a black cat hugging the buildings as he follows Doc Woodcourt.

[JudeS]

I was just thinking that we are dragged through the most horrible , sordid lives of the 19th century by Dickens.  We follow him willingly.  He is our pied  piper and our beloved guide all rolled up into one.
Without his gorgeous, luscious descriptions and his sense of humor he would not find us so easily and blindly following him through the muck.  But we are mesmerized.
A true GENIUS!

[PatH]

I wonder how Dickens' contemporaries reacted to these descriptions.  And I wonder if he put in the bit about the slums breeding contagion that affected the rich (true enough) to hit them where it hurt.

[JoanP]

PatH, that's an interesting point to think about - how did Dickens' contemporaries view his call for reform? - That's what he's doing, isn't he?  Poverty, illness, substandard living conditions - so widespread -with no sign of improvement.  Their effects cannot escape the notice of everyone - except perhaps the rich out in the country, who are able to look the other way.  We know that Dickens work is extremely popular.  Was he at the head of the reform movement?  Surely he is making large numbers of the population aware of the dire situation and the need for reform.  The "pied piper," as Jude described him...  Was he revered as a reformist - or as a fine storyteller?


Laura, you've read to the end of Chapter XLVI - the "Stop Him" chapter?  Jo tells Allan he was taken somewhere in the night...by a man who took him to the hospital and gave him money - and then told him to move on out of London when he gets out.  If he gave Jo money, then we know he's not Skimpole, right?   The person who took Jo from the Bleak House barn -  seems a kind-hearted man - getting him medical attention and then money to get  away - to safety. So why does Jo fear him?  He knows this man well.  He has seen him before - "in all kinds of places."  
I think the tip off to his identity came when Jo told Allan that he never did anything wrong - Has this man threatened to put him in prison, then?  Can this be anyone but Mr. Bucket?
Do you think Mr. Bucket works for Tulkinghorn - or do you think he is called in to take into custody those who Tulkinghorn calls for arrest - as he did poor Gridley?

[Babi]

  Personally, JOANP, I have quite settled in my own mind that Capt. Hawdon was Esther's
father. And I don't think it was anything in the document that made Lady Dedlock faint,
simply that she recognized the handwriting of a man she had thought was dead.
  Skimpole and his cake, fruit and wine...just further proof that he is always ready
to indulge himself.  It is unlikely that any of those have yet been paid for, or ever
will be, but Skimpole doesn't consider that to be his problem.

  BARB, I think you are right; it was Bucket who urged Jo to leave London. I believe
he was concerned for Jo's safety; the boy knew too much of Tulkinghorn's 'secrets'. I
thing the vague threat was an attempt to insure the boy would stay away.

 Oh, thank you,LAURA! I was wondering when someone would take up the very important and
dramatic Letter and Answer. Mr. Jarndyce did seem matter-of-fact about his proposal,
but I think that was to make it easier for Esther to refuse if she wished. It seemed
to me that his intention was to assure that she would be safe and provided for. There
is no question in my mind that he loves Esther, but he is not an infatuated young swain.
  Esther's love for him is based on respect, gratitude for his kindness, and a recognition
of his goodness. She is not 'in love' with him as she may be with Alan Woodcourt, but
that dream appears doomed, and she has shown that she can be happy in her present way
of life. 

 Seeing as the subject of povery and  reform is paramount in Bleak House,  you might find this
link interesting.  I did think 'debtor's prison'  was a thing of the past! 
 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/23/lisa-lindsay-breast-cancer-survivor-debtors-jail_n_1446391.html

[marcie]

Doesn't it seem like most everyone is caught up in keeping secrets or trying to find them out? Esther is the personification of the big secret of this novel... her real identity. Even her mother wasn't aware, until recently of that part of the secret (that she had a living daughter) though she has spent her life keeping the secret of her love affair. Tulkinghorn seems to be the greatest uncoverer of secrets and employs Bucket to that end. Tulkinghorn seems to go to any lengths, mowing down individuals in his greed to find out more.

Some people, such as Jo and Mr. Snagsby, are reluctant participants in aspects of the big secret and don't want to harm anyone. They don't even realize what they know. Snagsby is sworn to secrecy and Jo is warned to move on. Jo has shown one person (Lady D in disguise) various clues and Tulkinghorn doesn't want him telling anything else to anyone. Poor Jo doesn't understand why he is being hounded and threatened with prison.

[marcie]

Babi, I'm in agreement with your assessment of the people and events in your last post.

I appreciate your finding that article about current debtor's prisons. It made me very angry to read it. Dickens began his writing career as a journalist of sorts. I wonder if he would be writing more investigative news articles than fiction today.

[Laura]

Being that this is a novel from the mid 1800’s, I don’t suppose we will ever know if the marriage between Esther and Mr. Jarndyce will be consummated, so to speak.  I agree with Joan, Barbara, and Babi that Mr. Jarndyce wants to protect and take care of Esther.  I think we will have to be satisfied with that explanation, pending further revelations during the rest of the book.  I feel confident that he loves Esther as a daughter, but as a wife --- I’m not sure.  Maybe I will think of it as an arranged marriage, arranged by Mr. Jarndyce himself!

Joan, I had not considered that Esther still loved Mr. Woodcourt.  I took the burning of the dried flowers to be symbolic of her ending “her relationship” with him, but hadn’t thought further to think about how she might still feel about him.  I think he will always hold a special place in her heart, but after his mother’s visit and Esther’s scarring from small pox, I thought she had resigned herself that a romantic relationship with Mr. Woodcourt was not possible.

[Laura]

Laura, you've read to the end of Chapter XLVI - the "Stop Him" chapter?  Jo tells Allan he was taken somewhere in the night...by a man who took him to the hospital and gave him money - and then told him to move on out of London when he gets out.  If he gave Jo money, then we know he's not Skimpole, right?   The person who took Jo from the Bleak House barn -  seems a kind-hearted man - getting him medical attention and then money to get  away - to safety. So why does Jo fear him?  He knows this man well.  He has seen him before - "in all kinds of places."  
I think the tip off to his identity came when Jo told Allan that he never did anything wrong - Has this man threatened to put him in prison, then?  Can this be anyone but Mr. Bucket?

This explanation makes complete sense, but I would have never figured it out!  I am terrible with mysteries.  I tend to let the book carry me along, and wait for things to be revealed to me by the author.

[marcie]

Laura, I do think that Esther has resigned  herself that a romantic relationship with Mr. Woodcourt isn't possible. Since her changed appearance, she has been interpreting his attention to her as "pity." We haven't heard from anyone whether Woodcourt still loves her. Mr. Jarndyce seemed to try to question Esther about it before he asked her to consider his proposal of marriage but Esther didn't say that she had gotten any indications from Woodcourt of renewed feelings. Esther has been wrong before. I guess we'll have to wait and see. As some of you have said, I think she is contenting herself with Jarndyce's affection and trying to channel her feelings for Woodcourt into just friendship.

[JudeS]

In chapter 45 Dickens brings up love.
Ada really loves Richard and offers him her whole inheritance which is just enough to pay off his debts and retain his commission in the Army. She is totally unselfish in her love.
Richard has gotten himself in a real pickle and the author leves it to us, and Ada, to continue to worry about him.
Esther still loves Woodcourt in a romantic way, not in the way she loves John Jardyce. Although she burns the bouquet she had dried this is a way to help herself overcome that love.  She fears that her scarred face makes her an object of pity and no young man could love her.
I am not sure that this affair is over. Woodcourt is such a heroic figure in the book (almost too good to be true) that he may end up marrying our heroine. It would very Dickensian if that happened.  However it would only happen, if it does, later in the story.

[JudeS]

YIKES!!
After I finished posting I went to Yahoo News. The second article was:"The Return of Debtors Prison"
Here are a few highlights.
The lady who was the focus of the article was jailed for owing $281
on a medical bill that was incorrectly sent to a collection agency.
Debtors prisons in the US were abolished in 1830 but today one third of the states allow people
to be jailed for small suns that they owe. Florida adds a 40% debtors fee to the amount.  Many of the other states add 30%.
Collection agencies in these states prefer to use State Troopers to go to the persons home and take them to prison.  This saves them the price of hiring investigators and other personell.
A person who is jailed for a debt is NOT allowed a public defender.

[PatH]

The way John Jarndyce proposes shows his quality.  He has probably loved her for a long time, but not wanted to interfere with her chance of falling in love with someone nearer her own age.  He surely recognized that she was falling in love with Woodcourt.  Then she is scarred, and finally, she learns her own story.  She is illegitimate, with no chance of anything from her parents.  It's only then, when he feels he won't be keeping her from something better, that he proposes.

He is very careful to try to keep her from feeling pressured.  In her position of dependence and gratitude, she might feel obligated to accept, and he tries to make it clear that she will lose absolutely nothing if she refuses.  He has her read the letter when he isn't around, and take time before she replies, to be sure of herself.

I agree with Jude--Esther still has feelings for Woodcourt, but has given up any possibility of marrying him.  She can definitely make a happy marriage if she marries Jarndyce--there is enough love for that.

[PatH]

YIKES is right, Jude, I had no idea.

[BarbStAubrey]

http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/debtors-prisons-rise-again-in-the-south

[JoanK]

YIKES: I'm being pwestered for a cell phone bill that I never purchased. I've ignored it -- maybe I'd better do something about it.

[JoanP]

But remember, you DON'T HAVE TO BUY IT, Joank!  Even though we understand you'd do anything to avoid the debtors' prison!  Can't you see Richard facing his debts, being marched off to the prison?  Might teach him a hard lesson.  But you know Jarndyce will not let things go that far.  He'll pay, as he pays Skimpole...tells Skimpole "we must save his - Richard's pocket, that Richard must not pay when the two go about.  Skimpole tells Jarndyce he had believed Richard was immensely rich.
Is this what Mr. Vholes had been led to believe?  Surely he knows now that Richard has nothing - that the real money is his connection to John Jarndyce.  

I'm still not sold on the good John Jarndyce, Jude - I'm not sure that I find him a believable character.  I just don't admire him as much as Esther does -- though he is generous with this money - seems to have a lot to go round.  Isn't he throwing it away on Skimpole? Encouraging him to keep spending ?  Maybe IF he marries Esther, she'll be spend his money more judiciously.

  How old is Esther...early 20's, he's over 60?  Is the age difference a problem?   There are times when I think Dickens is telling us this is a  mismatch.  But then I remember his affaire with the very young actress, Ellen Ternan - for whom he left his wife.  He probably sees a happy marriage for Jarndyce  and grateful young Esther.  What think you?  Do you see marriage for these two in this novel?

She's planning on keeping herself "busy, busy, busy, useful, amiable, serviceable."  Isn't this how she's always handled situations that are difficult?  Tells herself - "when you are mistress of Bleak House, you will be as cheerful as a bird"...a bird in a cage?
Clearly she still has feelings for Allan Woodcourt.  And he's such an paragon of virtue - interested in Esther too.  Why assume that he will not continue to love her because of her scars?  If Esther is happy with this proposal, why does she take a week to respond to the letter?  Why is she crying as she burns the flowers?
And what did you think of what she did with those flowers before burning them - pressed them to sleeping Ada's lips!  What did you think of that?  It occurred to me that she was giving Allan to Ada. Has she given up on Richard and Ada?  

[BarbStAubrey]

she was giving Allan to Ada. Has she given up on Richard and Ada? 

Never thought of that - hmmm

Joan all the characters that are really good seem over the top - John Jarndyce, Esther, Jo, Woodcourt - Ada seems like pablum, talk about a shadowed personality - we have no more clue to her than we do to John J.

[JoanK]

"all the characters that are really good seem over the top". Yes, that's Dickens' way. The bad characters are over the top too. And the others are often characatures -- having one characteristic that is exaggerated and is all we see. Dickens is not into subtle characterization -- that's a different sort of book.

Sentimental me thinks John J. really loves Esther romantically, but didn't want to say so until he is sure she has no better chances on the horizon. Perhaps Dickens IS  thinking of himself and the actress -- I don't know how the timing of that affair worked.

[Babi]

 Interesting speculation, MARCIE. I can easily see Dickens as an investigative
journalist. I believe he would have loved that job. I do hope it wouldn't prevent him
from writing fiction, tho'. What a loss that would be.

 I agree, LAURA. And since she saw the need to put that dream behind her, and felt a
duty to act honorably toward John Jarndyce, the burning of the bouquet meant to me a
turning away from the hopes of the past.

 Wasn't marriage between young women and older men rather common in those days?
Parents thought it a great idea to assure their daughters' future by marrying her to
a man already well-established and prosperous. Marrying simply for 'love' was considered
impractical and foolish, at least among the moneyed classes.

  Now, Dickens has been setting the scene for poor Jo. Dying, he is taken in by Mr. George.
    “He is not one of Mrs. Pardiggle’s Tockahoopo Indians; he is not one of Mrs. Jellyby’s lambs; being wholly unconnected with Borrioboola-Gha; he is wholly unconnected with Borrioboola-Gha; he is not softened by distance and unfamiliarity; he is  not a genuine foreign-grown savage; he is the ordinary home-made article.” Dickens wants to see people turning
their attention to the very great needs right at their doorsteps.

[PatH]

One wonders what Jo would have made of himself if he had had any sort of decent chance in the world.  He seems resourceful and willing to work.  He is honest--hard to stick to that when you're poor and starving.  And he has a conscience--he feels guilty for having infected Esther.

[marcie]

Babi and Pat, yes, I see the stage  set for losing Jo. He does have a good heart. He got medicine for Jenny (or her friend; I can't recall which) and he feels terrible for infecting Esther. If Tulkinghorn hadn't been so determined to find out Lady D's secret and determined to cover up the investigation, with no thought to Jo and the likelyhood that Jo would never tell anyone, Jo would likely  have stayed and continued his poor work and not have had to "keep moving" in starvation and cold. Tulkinghorn's to blame for his being sick.

[Jonathan]

Jo has played his role and leaves the stage, and what a touching scene Dickens makes of his exit. Esther is obviously the author's creature. She, too, takes leave of her favorite things with dramatic flair. Burning her bouquet, burying her doll. Dickens leaves no doubt of his favorite character, and without giving anything away I can say that he is setting things up for a happy ending for her.

What a busy week for me. A death in the family took me out of town on Monday and now back in town again, I'm on my way out to help celebrate a book launching this afternoon (a friend's). Tomorrow it's back to participate some more in the great gathering occasioned by my BIL's demise. He was something of a writer himself. A great letter writer. Very proud of what he wrote. Would like to have seen them published, but some were buried with him, the  love letters he had written many years ago, and which he often seems to have read after his wife died, many years ago. He was 93.

I've read all your posts very quickly, and am struck by the lively discussion this has turned out to be.

JoanK, I can understand your dismay at being asked to install a phone in your cell. How much would it take to bet you bailed out. I'm sure we're all too eager to help you get out.

[PatH]

Jonathan, I'm so sorry about your BIL's demise.  It sounds like he had a valuable and interesting life.

What a good comparison! Burning the flowers is very like burying the doll.  Esther saying to herself: OK, time to move on.

Don't worry, JoanK and I are always ready to bail each other out.

[JoanP]

Please accept my condolences, too, Jonathan.  I'm sorry for the loss of your old friend and member of your family.

Burying the dear old doll, burning the dried flowers from Allan - Esther does know how to move on, doesn't she?  But underneath it all, she's not happy letting go of Allan.  

I guess I have no choice but to accept "over the top" characters - accept the fact that Jarndyce is really a good loving man, not someone too  good to be true,   acting the part.  It's a bit like accepting the  many "over the top" coincidences - like Esther being in Deal just as Allan Woodcourt steps off the ship from India, for example -

Though she believed he pitied her changed appearance, she was glad to see the look on his face as she drove away...
"I felt for my old self as the dead may feel if they ever revisit these scenes.  I was glad to be tenderly remembered, to be greatly pitied, not to be quite forgotten." Ah, but Esther is very much alive, isn't she? So is Allan Woodcourt.   It's not over, is it?

 But what would happen to John Jarndyce, alone in Bleak House - without a Mistress, tending the basket of keys?

Do you find yourself wondering whether Esther is part of the Jarndyce vs Jarndyce will and law suitl?  We really don't know anything about that suit, do we?  John Jarndyce vs. Tom Jarndyce?  The plot seems to be coming together at a faster clip than before.  

[JoanP]

Dickens didn't keep us in suspense too long between installments this time.  His readers know Jo's "cart" cannot go on much longer. He begins the first chapter of the 15th installment, chapter 47 - "Jo's Will" - with Allan desparately trying to find a hiding place for poor Jo.    

Allan knows the boy -   {How old do you see Jo?} - is dying.  "It's a strange fact in the heart of a civilized world, this creature in civilized form, should be more difficult to dispose of than an unowned dog."

Was it just a coincidence that  the only place he could think of to take him was Miss Flite's -  and from there to Mr. George's shooting range for his last days, the same path Gridley followed before he died? Can someone remind me - do we know anythng about Miss Flite's case before the Chancery yet?  She seems to be taking on a more important role as the story progresses...
 

[Babi]

  I hope your family gathering is the celebration it should be, JONATHAN, for a life well
lived.
 I haven't seen anything to suggest that Esther might be a party to Jarndyce & Jarndyce,
JOANP.  Even is by chance she should be, I wouldn't expect any benefit to her from it,
any more than to anyone else. Alan Woodcourt, now...I still have hopes for that outcome.

 Dickens closing words on the death of Jo are, I believe, a strong appeal to his readers. “The light is come upon the dark benighted way.  Dead!  Dead, your Majesty.  Dead, my lords ands gentlemen. Dead, Right Reverends and Wrong Reverends of every order. Dead, men and women, born with Heavenly compassion in your hearts. And dying thus around us
every day.”

[PatH]

Poor Jo is lucky to be taken in by George in his last days.  He is more comfortable than he has ever been, but the place is disreputable enough that he doesn't feel out of place.  And his last thought is to apologize to Esther for infecting her.  Did you notice his remarks about preachers?  Mr. Chadband "sounded as if he wos a speakin' to his-self, and not to me."  "Other genlmen" came to Tom-all-Alone's, "but all they mostly sed as the T'other wuns prayed wrong, and all mostly sounded to be a talking to theirselves, or a passing blame on the t'others, and not a talkin to us."  Sounds like Dickens talking here.  How old is Jo?  I have a dim memory he's twelve, but don't know where I saw that.

[PatH]

Do you find yourself wondering whether Esther is part of the Jarndyce vs Jarndyce will and law suit?   

Lady Dedlock seems to have a minor role in the case, but I'm guessing that since Esther is illegitimate, she would not have any claim.  She certainly knows better than to try to get involved.

I have the impression that Miss Flite's lawsuit was dropped long ago, but she is hooked on the court, and deluded and still thinks it will come up some day.

[Laura]

A few quick thoughts:
I am not sure if Esther and Mr. Jarndyce will actually marry.  I can honestly see things going either way.  I am just going to have to read on to find out.

I am so frustrated with Richard that I can hardly stand it!  Ada must truly care about him to be willing to give him money, even though she knows his history.  Why does Mr. Jarndyce enable people like Richard and Mr. Skimpole?

Allan and Ada --- interesting!

Back later for talk on the next installment!

[BarbStAubrey]

oh oh oh out-loud blubbering - couldn't stop with the heaving tears of an eight year old - I could hear my mother in my head telling me to breath - I had to stop reading after the death of Jo - and it touched me for hours.

Now that is over the top - I am thinking, where at first it was all the goodie two shoes I saw as over the top someone pointed out the bad guys are as exaggerated and you, JoanP pointed out some of the scenes were just too coincidental - then it hit - is that what they call melodramatic - we made fun of it in parody of the ogre dressed in a black cape trying to collect the rent from a young widow but, in the hands, or should I better say by the pen, of a master the affect is anything but a parody.  

Poor Richard appears to be addicted - no more so than if he was addicted to gambling, drugs or alcohol and Ada is playing the enabler - sad - knowing what we know today it is simply Richard's way to hide from himself and cope with issues and feelings within from his growing up years just as Ada probably got through her childhood by enabling who ever showed her some love.

Oh yes, another touching picture, when Phil took Jo for a bath and some clothes - forgot the expression but it sounded like how someone in the army would name picking up essentials. I could easily imagine the trust between those two. And to give Jo a difficult time for being ill and contagious - he had no idea till someone scolded him - I think Jo was so used to being blamed for anything and everything most of which he had no clue what it was all about that if someone blamed him for making the Queen ill he would have accepted the guilt.

I like the point made that Dickens was showing how helping those far away is almost romantic when it is in place of helping those under your nose. So much of this is about us today that it is shocking to realize we have not come that far in 160 years.

[JoanP]

Barbara, Jo's story has to be the saddest in the entire book.  I think  Dickens is showing his readers - and us, how all government agencies and religious institutins have failed Jo.  His character is the one Dickens' poured his soul into - using it to call for reforms.

What can Allan do with him?  He can't just walk away?  He can't return him to the hospital, says he won't stay there. I'm not sure why Jo was released from the hospital in the first place.  Snagsby had left him there with instructions for him to move on when he was released.  But why was he released?  Clearly he's dying?  The implications seems to be that Jo knows he's dying - and doesn't want to die in the hospital...so he left.
 
  On the upside - we can see that there are some individuals who are helping Jo - who is right under their noses - even though he is described as "repugnant" by those he comes in contact with.

"Mr. Chadband sounded as if he wos a speakin' to his-self, and not to me."  PatH  Jo never did figure out what all talk of religion was about.  Can't you sense Allan Woodcourt's frustration as he tries to get help him with the Lord's Prayer, knowing this is the end?


 

[Laura]

I thought the last part of Chapter 47, Jo’sWill, was one of the most well written sections in the book.  I thought the comparison of Jo to a cart was clever.  Most people thought of Jo as an object, of utilitarian value only, much like a cart, capable of basic work, but not much else. 

Of course, the story broke my heart.  This quote struck a chord with me:

“Phil has stopped in a low clinking noise, with his little hammer in his hand.  Mr. Woodcourt looks round with that grave professional interest and attention on his face, and, glancing significantly at the trooper, signs to Phil to carry his table out.  When the little hammer is next used, there will be a speck of rust upon it.”

A speck of rust from a teardrop!  Beautiful!


Please accept my sympathy on your loss, Jonathan.

[PatH]

I don't think many of us had dry eyes in that part.

[BarbStAubrey]

For Mr. Tulkinghorn's time is over for evermore, and the Roman pointed at the murderous hand uplifted against his life, and pointed helplessly at him, from night to morning, lying face downward on the floor, shot through the heart.

Racing in our minds - who did it?  - Lady Deadlock out at night walking till we have no idea what hour - George the owner of firearms - both have  a strong motive - who else had motive and the means to shoot Mr. Talkinghorn in the heart - interesting the man with no heart is shot in the heart.

[BarbStAubrey]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/charles-dickens/9064217/Charles-Dickens-stamps-for-2012.html