Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online

[JoanP]

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Bleak House                            
by Charles Dickens

                   

Bleak House is the 10th novel by Charles Dickens, published in twenty monthly installments between March 1852 and September 1853. It is held to be one of Dickens's finest novels, containing one of the most vast, complex and engaging arrays of minor characters and sub-plots in his entire canon. The story is told partly by the novel's heroine, Esther Summerson, and partly by an omniscient narrator. The story revolves around the mystery of Esther Summerson's mother and it involves a murder story and one of English fiction's earliest detectives, Inspector Bucket. Most of all, though, the story is about love and how it can cut through human tangles and produce a happy ending. The house where Dickens lived spent summers with his family, beginning in 1850, is said to have inspired his novel of the same name.  Among others, he wrote David Copperfield in this house.

Lord Chancellor Copies  (click to enlarge)

INSTALMENT II III

DATE of PUBLICATION    April 1852 May 1852

CHAPTERS   5-7   8-10

DISCUSSION DATES     Feb.20-24     Feb.25-29

Coavinses (click to enlarge)

               Some Topics to Consider

In this section Dickens sets up a lot of puzzles and throws out a lot of hints, without giving any answers, but we can have a lot of fun speculating.  If you've read ahead, please don't give away anything for those of us who haven't.  You can just chuckle with your superior knowledge. Chapter V 1. Is the little old lady actually involved in a court case?  Do you think she will play an important role in the story? 2. On hearing Richard’s name, Krook counts off names on his fingers: Carstone, Barbary, Clare, Dedlock.  Who are these? 3. Ada is sad that everyone involved in the suit should be enemies.  “It seems very strange, as there must be right somewhere, that an honest judge in real earnest has not been able to find out through all these years where it is.”  Do you think we will find out where it is? Chapter VI 4. What is your impression of Bleak House?  Is it actually bleak? 5. Skimpole has an unusual, carefree, parasitic, approach to life.  How does he manage to get away with it?  Do you approve? 6. John Jarndyce seems to like to help protégés.  How many have you spotted so far? 7. Why do you think he has been helping Esther all these years? Chapter VII 8. Is it just a coincidence that Guppy, a clerk at Kenge and Carboy, visits the Dedlock’s country home?  He feels he recognizes Lady Dedlock’s portrait.  What do you think is the significance of this? 9. Do you know the history of Charles I (the historical background behind the story of the ghost)?

 

Related Links:
 Characters in Bleak House by Groups;  Map of London  1851 (double click)  

                                                  

Bleak House  "A dreary name," said the Lord Chancellor. "But not a dreary place at present, my lord," said Mr. Kenge.

DLs:  JoanP, Marcie, PatH, Babi,   JoanK  

[PatH]

Thanks for the gorgeous tour of the Middle Temple, Rosemary.  Being rather meal oriented, I couldn't help noticing that the places at the dining tables were set with 3 wineglasses each.

[PatH]

The first chapter is wonderfully effective, with its comparison of the brooding fog and darkness and the mental fog of the court.  It has its dark humor too (Eighteen of Mr. Tangle's learned friends, each armed with a little summary of eighteen hundred sheets, bob up like eighteen hammers in a piano-forte, make eighteen bows, and drop into their eighteen places of obscurity.)  But it began to weigh me down, and I was glad to escape to the glittering frivolity of Lady Dedlock.

[Jonathan]

Shucks, I can't get Rosemary's Middle Court link to work for me. From the enthusiastic reports I conclude that the fog has lifted.

What fun to be stumbling about in the fog that Dickens has created. Thrown into the thick of his plot from page one. There are hints here and there that he himself is feeling his way about. But there is method in his madness. The Chancery Court proceedings remind Barb of Congress in action. And isn't the book itself a kind of State of the Realm report?

Bookad brings up the matter of Dickens' own domestic life. Very apt. I believe Dickens saw himself in Mrs. Jellybe. So preoccupied with his writing that he couldn't possibly have given his family the attention it deserved.

[Jonathan]

PatH, Where do you find 'the glittering frivolity of Lady Dedlock'? In the curious literary fog of the first two paragraphs of Chapter 2, the author has her living on the edge, at the brink of the void. These paragraphs seem like an author's masterplan for his book.

[JudeS]

Question 8:Do you think Esther will forget Caddy?
I hope not! Caddy quite impressed me with her sad, perceptive persona. What a terrible life for a smart, sensitive twelve year old.
My impression of Mrs. Jellyby is just what Dickens wanted of us: to be disgusted with a parent who so doesn't care about the welfare of her here and near children while worrying about far away, theoretical children in Africa. Dickens really pushes the envelope , telling of the Jellybys childrens mishaps: falling down seven steps, getting a head caught between posts of a fence etc. These sad, filthy mites also highlight Esthers motherly, caring persona as she reacts to them and they to her. The  little ones, all younger than Caddy, probably made Caddy feel even more miserable for them  than she feels for her own blighted fate.

[EvelynMC]

Thanks, Rosemary, for the pictures of Temple Court.  That virtual tour was interesting.

Temple Court looks just like the dining hall at Hogwarts in the Harry Potter movies.

Evelyn

[JoanR]

My book has come and I'm finding it so much better to read a "real" book than the Nook!  Dickens grabbed me right away with his wonderful atmospheric description of the fog.  One can almost see it gathering in the corners of the room!  Shivers!
  I want to charge right in and send Mrs Jellyby to Africa to pick coffee beans while I rescue her children!  He is a very "involving" writer, isn't he?  This is going to be a great read.

[Laura]

The back of my B&M Classics edition states that “Bleak House blends together several literary genres – detective fiction, romance, melodrama, and satire.”

I haven’t seen any romance yet.  There hasn’t really been any melodrama yet either.  Satire is evident in Dicken’s use of the lawsuit called Jarndyce and Jarndyce and the Court of Chancery.  My book contains an appendix explaining the court, which I have read, but only barely absorbed.  I need to reread that again now that I have read the first section of the book.

The mysterious parts of the book have peaked my interest.  What was in the document that Mr. Tulkinghorn was reading, while Mr. Dedlock was dozing, that made Lady Dedlock faint?  What wrong did Esther’s mother do to Esther’s godmother?  Who is the lady who addressed Esther, Ada, and Richard when they were waiting outside, claiming she would “confer estates on both?”

My edition contains an interesting endnote regarding Esther.
“While the first-person narrative in which Esther’s portion of the novel is written recalls Charlotte Bronte’s Jane Eyre (1847), the character of Dicken’s orphan is very much the opposite of Bronte’s Jane, whose rebellious attitudes Dickens found objectionable.  For her part, Bronte thought that Dicken’s handling of Esther’s narrative was 'weak and twaddling' (letter of March 11, 1852)."

My book contains a character list, in alphabetical order.  Babi’s is much more helpful!  Thank you.

I’ll have to go back and look at the preface.  I didn’t retain it.

[PatH]

"Weak and twaddling"--hmm, we'll have to see if we agree.  What one mostly notices about Esther is how very caring and nurturing she is, a remarkable feat when you consider how very little of such she ever received.  And already mysteries aplenty, with more to come, I'm sure.  Romance too--it wouldn't be Dickens without romance.

I foresee I'm going to be doing a lot of going back and looking.  There's much to much detail to take it all in the first time around.

[PatH]

Jonathan, I admit Lady Dedlock isn't glittering and frivoling (nice verb) much here, but she is the style-setter for her fashionable set, the one everyone watches, the one who dictates what's the latest fad, and she is about to set off for six weeks in Paris because she's bored with the rain at her country place.  So I think she is basically glittering and frivolous.

[bookad]

Sir Leicester's opinion about the Chancery suit
chapter 2

It is a slow, expensive, British constitutional kind of thing.....even if it should involve an occasional delay in justice and a trifling amount of confusion, as a something, devised in conjunction with a variety of other somethings, by the perfection of human wisdom, for the eternal settlement (humanly speaking) of everything.

...that to give the sanction of his countenance to any complaints respecting it, would be to encourage some person in the lower classes to rise up somewhere-like Wat Tyler.

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/England-History/WatTyler.htm
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Wat_Tyler.aspx

always the aristocratic high brows!!  things being done for the sake of appearances and because that was the way it 'has always been done'

I find it interesting 'Wat Tyler' is mentioned as his life and the peasant uprising he was a rebel leader of- occurred 30 + years after the 'black death' around 1331 as the article notes (see web site above) ....some 500 years difference; yet it must have been a 'thorn in the upper crust's side' to be kept in the forefront of mind as something to be wary of occurring again

Wat(Walter) Tyler-occupation roof tiler

[rosemarykaye]

Babi - yes, I'm sure the legal costs would be taken out of the estate - that's still the way it's done when you are doing a probate, the costs being deducted before the heirs get their hands on the cash.  Modern law firms will have that written into their Terms of Business Letter, which has to be sent to all clients at the outset - then they can't say nobody told them.

I must admit that I personally get a bit fed up with Esther.  She's just too, too perfect so far.  I love the portrait of Miss Flite (the old lady) - what a great picture of someone driven slowly mad.


Rosemary

[JoanP]

JoanR - You are a very "book-ish" person - I'm glad your came - but hope that you will keep one eye on the magnificent old copy that you described earlier and share what you see with us from time to time. 
"He is a very "involving" writer, isn't he?"   So many good insights, opinions and good information here.  Although Dickens is tossing many names and character sketches at us, I'm optimistic that with all of your help we will have not trouble in future chapters.  Not only is he painting the characters, he's tossing out bits of clues related to the plot - the mystery that will eventually unfold.  Too early for the romance and mystery, Laura - but we'll be watching for it.  I'm waiting for the "spontaneous combustion" to take place - remember that from the Preface?

"the glittering frivolity of Lady Dedlock"- PatH

- Though the house in town comes alive in season - "a fairyland,but a desert to live in." But right now this lady  seems bored out of her mind.  Why doesn't she just pack up and go to Paris?  Why wait?  I guess she's needed in London - for the plot.

So the lawyer comes with papers regarding the Jarndyce case - Sir Leicester is not really interested - because it's his wife's property that is in question - this property is the  only thing that she brought to the marriage. So there's a connection between her property and the Jarndyce case?  She recognizes the handwriting on one of the original documents Mr. Tulkinghorn is thumbing through.  I have an idea, a guess, about  whose handwriting it is - I'm wondering if you do.   At any rate - we leave the Lady in a faint - but at least longer bored.

[JoanP]

Suddenly, with a turn of the page, Dickens hands the microphone over to little Esther Summerson, as Pedln describes it.  I read somewhere that she is the only female narrator in all of Dickens' works.  Do you think it was effective?  How could he have done otherwise, I wonder.

Certainly she wasn't the only orphan. We meet three orphans in the first instalment!  Poor little Eshter.  I don't see how she could have grown up "normal" after those loveless, lonely early years with her godmother/aunt.    Laura writes of Charlotte Bronte's reaction to Dickens' portrayal of Esther -  "weak and twaddling."  
I can't see how she could have been anything else but weak- and twaddling after her love-deprived formative years.

 Rosemary is fed up with her - finds her "too perfect."  {That's the same reaction I had to Ada's description.} Now how did Esther manage to morph into this whole different person?  Her godmother gives her the horrible story of her mother's shame - and just like that, Esther becomes this wonderful caring person everyone seems to love. How did you understand that?

We learn that her ward is Mr.Jarndyce - who seems to have sponsored her education at the death of her aunt - and now is sending for her to be the companion of his cousin -  Do we know yet how Esther is connected to Mr. Jarndyce?  Or is that part of the unfolding mystery?

[Babi]

 Q. 5 Esther Summerson 'sympathetic?  I think she is the Dickens' ideal of what a young
lady should be. As for the women who 'cared' for her since her birth, I don't think they
gave her any love or support, and certainly no approval. How could she love them?

I believe Dickens saw himself in Mrs. Jellybe. So preoccupied with his writing that he
couldn't possibly have given his family the attention it deserved.

Jonathan
  What an interesting viewpoint, JONATHAN. To me, Mrs. Jellyby was Dickens' satire on
the woman too busy outside the home and careless of her family. It has been my observation
that people are capable of being entirely blind to the faults in themselves that they
condemn in others.

 Early days yet, LAURA. We've hardly started and you're in for a real treat! Romance and
melodrama, coming up.

 BOOKAD, that quote also reveals how little Sir Leicester actually knew about the matter.
"...a something, devised in conjunction with a variety of other somethings.." Really? Most
helpful.

 ROSEMARY, sent by registered mail, I don't doubt, to assure no-one could claim they
never got the notice.   

but no longer bored. JOANP   

 

 I think the odd old lady's words certainly set the stage for this story. “Youth. And hope. And beauty.  And Chancery. And Conversation Kenge! Ha! Pray accept my blessing.”

[nancymc]

The first time I read Bleak House I loved Esther, now I wonder and like Rosemary think, is she too perfect, Dickens seems to like meek and docile females, little Dorrit, little Nell and others, to-day I think we like our heroines feistier,  not quite so humble.

[JudeS]

Background: British Crime Fiction 1840-1860

Since Bleak House is considered one of the first examples of British Crime Fiction I wondered how that Genre of fiction was faring in the 1850s.
I had always thought of the Brish Crime Writers as Wilkie Collins  who wrote years after Dickens.(Woman in White 1868)
 
British Crime Novels began in the 1840.s with the "Penny Novel" (also known as the Penny Dreadfull).. Fairly simplistic and lurid they  greatly appealed to the growing populace of readers (who could read but were not educated).They were serialized in "Lloyds Entertainment Weekly".

The British Government  encouraged this type of writing , hoping it would educate the growing number of urban workers in  the difference between normal and deviant behavior.
The Crime Novel was basically religous in its outlook since it highlighted a violation of one of the Ten Commandments (lieing, cheating,coveting, murdering etc.).

In 1853 Dickens jumped on this growing genre by including a detective and a crime as part of Bleak House. (The longer the book was, the more money rolled in).
 

[pedln]

In 1853 Dickens jumped on this growing genre by including a detective and a crime as part of Bleak House. (The longer the book was, the more money rolled in).

An interesting history, Jude. I haven’t read much Dickens at all, and was wondering about the length of the book and was it padded?  Mrs. Jellybe, for instance.  A fascinating chapter, but I wonder if we meet her again or if this was an interesting characterization to add to the length of the book.  Granted, Chpt. IV teaches us more about the three young people, the compassion shown by the young women and Richard’s ability to laugh at washing his hands in the pie plate.

No doubt Mrs Jellybe would a good example for the didactic Penny Dreadfuls Jude mentioned – how not to tend your children.  Chpt IV did not strike me as a cliff-hanger, but I guess by now Dickens’ readers know there will be excitement down the road.

[Jonathan]

Esther is surely meant to play a major role in Dickens' scheme of things. Whatever did he have in mind by allowing her to tell her own story. Of course Dickens is always theatrical and allows his characters to reveal themselves in their own words. But with Esther, she herself is allowed to control the narrative.

Isn't her entrance dramatic? After the awesome scene-setting with the fog and the Chancery Court, the reader is suddenly confronted by this abject little twelve-year-old. Without a friend in the world, and bewildered by her identity and worth, overwhelmed by guilt, and hungry for love. (She's already found that her wisdom increases with love.) As it turns out, she is definitely among the better angels of our nature. But how will she ever find her way in this world. She's obviously the victim of a grave injustice.

Her guardian dies and she is sent off to school. She is soon a big hit with everybody. It's her own doing, isn't it? But why, I wonder, did she not only leave her doll behind, but see it through its demise with an actual burial? Another of the sorrowful occasions in Dickens' tale? It did seem sad to me.

[bellamarie]

PatH   "I foresee I'm going to be doing a lot of going back and looking.  There's much to much detail to take it all in the first time around."

I feel the same way.  Although my brain does not seem to want to retain and remember a whole lot as I near 60 yrs of age, I swear I find myself having to go back two and three times to refresh myself.  Maybe its Dickens' style of writing or his wordiness, but egads I can barely keep up with who is who or is it whom?  

Jonathon, I so agree with you as far as the sadness of her burying her doll.  I found myself with tears reading this.  I grew up in a very lonely, undemonstrative life when it came to showing and giving love from my mother and I truly poured so much love into my favorite doll, so when I read Esther talking to her doll it made me smile with remembering what my doll meant to me.  Then when she did not bring her doll along with her I was heartbroken.  Funny how some things can trigger such emotions in you at my age.  Much like Esther I was drawn to children and caring for them and now have my own in-home day care.  Makes you wonder if when you don't seem to get love and affection as a child if you make the choice to be in a situation where you can give it to others to fulfill that emptiness or need of your own.  Okay gotta run.

Ciao for now~

[Laura]

My B&N edition contains an endnote on Dicken’s inspiration for Mrs. Jellyby:

Dicken’s held the original of this character, the philanthropist Caroline Chisholm (1808-1877), in high regard, and he supported her schemes to assist the poor who wished to emigrate.  He took a very different view of Chisholm’s own domestic arrangements, however, and was appalled, in particular, by the unkempt condition of her children.

I don’t know if and how we will read more of Mrs. Jellyby in the novel, but I found this endnote useful for understanding why she may have been put in the book --- as a commentary on Caroline Chisholm and her decisions about work and family choices.

Here is a Wikipedia link about Caroline Chisholm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Chisholm

[BarbStAubrey]

It did seem sad didn't it Jonathan - it reminded me though of a Bible saying that I still haven't caught properly - something about leaving aside the things of a child - when I was a child I thought like a child - something - something - something... and so I saw it as her passage to young adulthood.

Those history links were fabulous Bookad - especially the first one that I have bookmarked for future info - leave it to you to catch a simple statement that said so much.  Looks like the old cliche nothing changes - the peasant revolt rings similar to the way of the world today.

I enjoyed your fog story Jude - funny now but I bet you were beside yourself as a young child. It was easy to fit in your shoes in that today when I go back East I feel so hemmed in by all the trees - I really like where I do not have to look up to find a small patch of sky but rather I can see an immense sky -  

Good to meet you Laura - I think it is how you view Romantic - for some it means a love interest for others it is an era that defined literature, music, the arts of the late 18th and early 19th century - to others it is anything that shows the goodness of humanity coupled with a love of nature that is used as a metaphor to human activity.  What a busy plant of many leaves, stems and flowers to describe the characters in Bleak House    

Whoops another post while I was writing away - glad you found that about Caroline Chisholm -

Which does lead me to see the belief in the goodness of humanity that I see as basic to Dickens. I love the quote you brought to our attention Babi - and further I loved that entire bit - I see it as part of characteristic of Dickens himself.

He is a gentleman of strict conscience, disdainful of all littleness and meanness and ready on the shortest notice to die any death you may please to mention rather than give occasion for the least impeachment of his integrity. He is an honourable, obstinate, truthful, high-spirited, intensely prejudiced, perfectly unreasonable man.

It is the first part - a man disdainful of all littleness and meanness with integrity that caught my eye -  Another novelist of the time Thackeray, he and Dickens were best friends till a falling out that lasted 20 years and then towards the end of his life Dickens and Thackeray became again good friends. I read Thackeray with dismay - so different than Dickens he is in today's standards brutal describing the Irish, Jews, Blacks and anyone from a culture other than WASP. Amazing since he was born in India living a genteel childhood with his English parents that you would think he did not have to put others in their place as the expression goes...

[BarbStAubrey]

Comparing the two - how they describe - first the tears and goodbys that Miss Summerson experiences two times in her life where as in Vanity Fair in the first chapter - http://www.bartleby.com/305/1.html - both goodby experiences are shown with two different young women leaving the school - Thackeray has no patience for teary goodbys but more -- quotes are from Thackeray followed by, quotes from Dickens describing folks of similar biological heritage.

A black servant, who reposed on the box beside the fat coachman, uncurled his bandy legs as soon as the equipage drew up opposite Miss Pinkerton’s shining brass plate,.. “Sambo, the black servant, has just rung the bell; and the coachman has a new red waistcoat.”

...as for Miss Swartz, the rich woolly-haired mulatto from St. Kitt’s,

“Never mind the postage, but write every day, you dear darling,” said the impetuous and woolly-headed, but generous and affectionate Miss Swartz;

(Ok this part does illuminate the story but shows the defference to Miss Sedley by Sambo's attention where as Becky gets a grin from Sambo)

The flowers, and the presents, and the trunks, and bonnet-boxes of Miss Sedley having been arranged by Mr. Sambo in the carriage, together with a very small and weather-beaten old cow’s-skin trunk with Miss Sharp’s card neatly nailed upon it, which was delivered by Sambo with a grin, and packed by the coachman with a corresponding sneer.

 Sambo of the bandy legs slammed the carriage door on his young weeping mistress.

Dickens discribes disdainful of all littleness and meanness in his American Notes.

A buxom fat mulatto woman, with sparkling eyes, whose head is daintily ornamented with a handkerchief of many colours.

The corpulent black fiddler, and his friend who plays the tambourine, stamp upon the boarding of the small raised orchestra in which they sit, and play a lively measure. Five or six couple come upon the floor, marshalled by a lively young negro, who is the wit of the assembly, and the greatest dancer known. He never leaves off making queer faces, and is the delight of all the rest, who grin from ear to ear incessantly. Among the dancers are two young mulatto girls, with large, black, drooping eyes, and head-gear after the fashion of the hostess, who are as shy, or feign to be, as though they never danced before, and so look down before the visitors, that their partners can see nothing but the long fringed lashes.

Dickens is not a saint, free from all  prejudice - not by a long shot - example he sees nothing to admire in the American Indian - however, again he describes what he sees, dirt and all but does not caricature with derogation.

[PatH]

Laura, thanks for the interesting information about Caroline Chisholm.  It's interesting to note how Dickens changes her.  Chisholm's work was important and worthwhile, and Dickens admired it.  Mrs. Jellyby's projects are obviously silly and impractical, and it's implied that she doesn't last with any one cause.  Chisholm's husband did important work, while Mr.  Jellyby doesn't seem to do much of anything.

I haven't read ahead, but I bet we haven't seen the last of Mrs.  Jellyby.  She's much too good a character to have only one chapter.

[Babi]

 Oh,yes, PEDLN. Dickens is very good at giving hints of things to come, to keep his
readers alert and eager. I would have been waiting impatiently for the next installment,
too.

 

But why, I wonder, did she not only leave her doll behind, but see it through its
demise with an actual burial?

 
 An interesting question, JONATHAN. I hadn't paid much attention to that. Perhaps, with
the recent death and burial of the woman who raised her, she was simply acting out that
event in the way a child does.  Or, perhaps, she simply thought of her childhood as over
now, and 'buried' childish things?

[JoanP]

Did you notice that Esther left her doll behind, but took her bird with her?   Dickens was quite the bird fancier.  He had a pet raven name of Grip with him as he wrote.  Birds are features in many of his stories. Birds differ from dolls.  Birds talk back. Don't be surprised if we run into more of them in Bleak House.

"perhaps, she simply thought of her childhood as over now, and 'buried' childish things?"

Babi, the death of her godmother, the revelation that the godmother was more than that - was her aunt -  was a life-changing revelation to this motherless, unloved  child.  None of the teary goodbyes you talk about, Barb - but a flood of tears when she leaves her next home heading for Bleak House.  She seems to have left the only home she ever knew with the determination that she was going to make people love her starting with little children.  She would mother them in a way she had never been cared for.  This seems to have become a way of life for her.  Perhaps it is the reason she is summoned to Bleak House to become a caring companion for Ada Clare.

Bellamarie, if you are having trouble keeping these names straight, you might want to consider printing out Babi's listing of characters from the link in the heading - and keep it tucked in your book as you read...It really helps.  Your story sounds very much like Esther's.  Once you and she stopped pouring all of your love the beloved dolls, you directed it to the children you were caring for.  Do you think the motivating reason for this was to gain the love and affection of those children?

I couldn't help but notice that these "orphans" are all  well-educated, well brought-up, compared to other children in the tale - the young Jellyby's.  PatH - I don't think we've heard the end of Mrs. Jellyby either - at least not of Caroline, Caddy Jellyby, not if Esther has anything to say about it.
Those of our readers, and Charlotte Bronte, who found young Esther as weak and twaddling - may find a different Esther as she finds her voice in adulthood.  Do you see any "feisty" girls at all in this tale?

[Jonathan]

I feel like laughing in agreement, but I feel I should point out that Mrs. Jellyby was working on a very worthwhile project. To open opportunities for her fellow countrymen to migrate and grow coffee beans in Africa.

Dickens, on the other hand, despite his efforts to make England a kinder, gentler place, seems like a busybody snooping into Mrs. Jellybe's private life. Very unfair. Holding women back he was. Two hundred years later it still hadn't changed. Margaret Thatcher setting out on her political career was constantly heckled with, won't you be neglecting your children if you run for parliament? Still, Dickens deserves to be listed in the Calendar of Saints.

I can't get over it. Sir Leicester feels that Chancery is a bastion of English life. The acme of British political wisdom. And what motivates him? Fear. Maintaining the status quo. Imagine. After 500 years the memory of Wat Tyler and his revolting peasants still sends shivers down aristocratic spines!

Putting childish things away. That's a fine scriptural application, Barb. You know, a Texas rancher once told me that a treeless landscape was a real blessing. It made it so easy to spot the stray cattle on the horizon.

Esther is a tough little girl. She does find the strength to get along.

[JoanP]

Thanks so much for the information on Caroline Chisholm, Laura. I've been wondering what Dickens was  saying about philanthropists in general - and about  Mrs. Jellyby's good works on behalf of the natives of  Borrioboola.  I see the dilema of which you speak, Jonathan. I've been wondering how the benificient Mr. John Jarndyce could have such high regard for Mrs. Jellyby. Much like Dickens and his questions about Caroline Chisholm, her good works, her child-neglect.  Is John Jarndyce aware of Mrs. Jellyby's family situation?  Surely we will hear more about her as the story progresses.  My bet - he'll come down on the side of the children...

The Introduction speaks to Bleak House's  two main themes: "the obsolete legal system and the philanthropy that allows their own children to grow up neglected and their neighbors to die of starvation."

Jude, your posts on Crime fiction remind me of the fact that we're going to have crime, a detective story in Bleak House.  Dickens writes at length of "spontaneous combustion"  in the Preface.  We've been reading of the obsolete legal system, the Jarndyce case has been  going on for 20 years.  You have to wonder how speedily a murder case will be tried in such a court system.   How very interesting this is going to be.  Are you wondering who the victim of the crime will be?  Jonathan, perhaps the victim will be Sir Leicester...with the wheels of justice turning ever so slowly.  


  

[BarbStAubrey]

Wow busy Sunday morning - everyone stopped in - I have my Hazelnut coffee in hand - after the awful experience at Christmas when I sent home all my clothes, Christmas gifts and bags of my favorite coffee that arrived on my front porch the day before I returned home and when I got home they were all gone including a package by UPS of an Amazon delivery. Seems shown on TV was a national expose of this goings on in other spots in the nation, folks decided according to the police the very next day to add Austin to the list and my large packages spelled goodies.

Well my daughter just sent me a box with 7 yes, seven bags of coffee - and bless his heart my youngest grandboy sent me a couple of the wonderful soaps similar to those he had given me a clutch of 8 for Christmas. And so it is a big deal for me to say I have a cup of Hazelnut coffee in hand -  

 I howled laughing outloud the entire 4th chapter - I know - how could I be so heartless - but that is it - to me it was a huge parody - I did not see the story being about the individual trials and tribulations although I did chaff and wonder why was Mr. Jellyby was sitting in the corner not helping as if he had nothing to do with the creation of this passel of kids.

The scene reminded me of these illustrations you often see of everything jumbly crammed into every nook and corner usually, of a hutch but even apartment buildings with folks and cats and plants poking out of every window and kids playing hopscotch on the sidewalk and an old man or lady feeding birds on the stairs, and strung washlines full of underwear -

You just have to laugh at - a, Dish of potatoes being mislaid in the coal skuttle, kettle on his dressing-table, curtain to the window was fastened up with a fork, even choosing Africa to me was the height of humor - Started in the mid 18th century therefore, part of Victorian culture is the expression still used today, " From here to Timbuktu" an African village which conjures up images of remote, isolated and distant parts of this earth. You have to wonder if Mrs. Jellyby would have preferred to escape to Africa - with the far off look in her eyes - she is disconnected from her surroundings - she and Mr. Jellyby could make the kids but neither of them could get their head wrapped around nurturing them.

And so, aside from all the social judgment of where and how a women should be spending her time or the self-appointed experiences of the children that remind you more of The Lord of the Flies or the Old Women in a Shoe I think the real nut of this chapter is in one of the hot topics of the time Existentialism - Mind over Matter.

I think in this chapter Dickens is spoofing the Mind over Matter argument. The spoof is the makeup of the chapter which falls into the typical exaggerated joke - Exaggeration jokes work by first evoking a fairly common, day-to-day image, and then exaggerating one or more aspects of that image to such an extent that the picture in the minds of the audience become ridiculous. To develop a spoof or exaggerated joke, you pick a noun, a person, place or thing and focus on one attribute, exaggerating the attribute associating the person, place or thing with the one exaggerated attribute.

Mrs. Jellyby appears to be more of the mind than the matter of her reality. Idealists were voicing that all things come from the mind where as, materialists, see the dead universe came alive and that matter grew till there was conscious minds. Materialists think matter as primary and mind as secondary.

Here is a nice link with an easy to understand explanation
http://evolutionaryphilosophy.com/2011/06/16/what-comes-first-mind-or-matter/

[JoanK]

"Makes you wonder if when you don't seem to get love and affection as a child if you make the choice to be in a situation where you can give it to others to fulfill that emptiness or need of your own."

That is the choice that you and Esther made, and good for you! It could go another way. I met a sad woman the other day, in her 70s, who was complaining to me (a stranger) that her mother didn't love her, only loved her brother. So when she grew up and married, she told her husband she would only have one child. From the way she talked about this child (now a man) it sounded like she didn't love him either. Apparently, she never learned how to love.

[JoanP]

Loved - and learning to love...That's what it's all about, isn't it? Such a sad story, JoanK.  Lucky are those who learned to love the easy way, the natural way.  By example.  Do you think Mrs. Jellyby loves those children?  What would she say if asked?  Does every mother love her children?  Just because they are her children?  THe scenes in the Jellyby home are hilarious, I'll agree, Barb - but painful too, weren't they? - Count me as another who grew up motherless, believing her life would have been different with  a mum in the house.  Not necessarily so?

By the way, did you know Borrioboola-Gha was a real place?  Actual name - Lokoja, the first British settlement - in Nigeria.  Chief crop - coffee beans.

There are so many directions in Dickens story is taking - they all seem to lead to Bleak House. I'm really looking forward to the next instalment when we get to step inside.     Did you notice  Mr. Kenge's comment to  the Lord Chancellor as he questioned the Jarndyce wards about their future at Bleak House?

"A dreary name," said the Lord Chancellor. "But not a dreary place at present, my lord," said Mr. Kenge.  

The plot thickens... Are you ready to pick up your copy of Instalment II?

[JudeS]

JoanP
You ask whether every mother  loves her children just because they are her children?
I'm sorry to say that in my work as a child therapist I saw countless examples of mothers who did not love their children.
The Prisons and Psychiatric Hospitals are full of the results of this phenomenom.

Thankfully most women do care for their children and even more thanlkfully about 50% of those who are not cared for find their way out of the morass and grow to live a fruitful life.
Working with some of these unloved children was one of the most rewarding experiences of my work life.
The scenes at the Jellyby home were not humorous for me. They were sad.
At least the children had a home. There are parents who don't even provide that.

[BarbStAubrey]

Oh dear - I was looking at the story as a story, a piece of art - and yes, art can imitate life and life can imitate art - as to the circumstances - not all of them were hilarious but then not sad either - many of us have come from a life different than those lucky 50% who live in a well run, nurturing home and it is easy to feel we were handed a poor hand, a lot of confusion and pain - but that is why I think the chapter was a spoof - it was too over the top and I think he was showing how he thinks ‘Mind over Matter’ is ridiculous.

The reality of our lives is how we develop - I know my way of seeing life does not make a good story but to me our circumstances make us who we are - to swap our circumstances changes who we are - As a child we seldom realize the benefits of our life and the biggie, we often think our parents are capable of more. More love, more nurturing, more capability to handle life, and more of the things that as children we do not realize cost money or emotional capitol that isn't there.

To live with a Mom who goes into noo noo nah nah land with a distance gaze, finding baby bottles in the mailbox  books with a cup of tea in the ice box, sitting mute on the side of the bed for days I understand and so I am not being cavalier - since I was the oldest my way was very early on, pre-school,  to help care for the rest of them and at times, for my Mom all the while having other things happen - The part of the story that does not ring true for me is, as a child, coping leaves little room for happy or unhappy - it was what it was - the neighbor children were all in the same fix with no TV to compare and imagine another way of living.

Yes, I am grateful that I could be pragmatic since many are filled with despair, anger, were in greater poverty or homeless and they were not fortunate to meet someone along the way to guide them out. Yes, I have seen what poverty can do to a child, a family and to a woman.

Mrs. Jellyby, appears to me as someone who did not want to give up - she wanted to be more than a caretaker for her children - there was no one to show her how to use her mind while caring for her children and home – being poor does not mean you give up your mental capacity. I can remember long discussions about philosophy and dreams not realized and great embarrassment if someone stopped in for a visit but it never changed - and yes, a social worker came wanting to remove my sister just younger and I but, different than Miss Jellyby, we sat on our hands and lied through our teeth - I cannot help think if Mrs. Jellyby were a man would we be holding her up to the same light.

We really do not know if Mrs. Jellyby was by-polar or dyslexic – either could easily explain her inability to keep an orderly house. We do not know why Priscilla is her choice of household help when she drinks - we do not even know if Mr. Jellyby works and if so, what is his position or craft.

A daughter can wish for a school to learn the things she hears about - mine was an all girls boarding school where classes were taught in French and tea was served each afternoon and the grandfather of my friend across the street was the caretaker - however, because of reality we learn different skills and we either celebrate that or feel cheated.

Dickens wrote his characters appalled at the circumstances - Miss Jellyby wishing for a different life - Esther taking care of Miss Jellyby and her feelings while guarding the sleep of Ada. This is where I think most of us see that ‘matter’ - the body - is needy and  without those needs met it is difficult for the 'Mind' to be given its full sway and so, we are filled with compassion for Miss Jellyby and Esther.

Looking at the characters as if they were real we can ask how many young women in the same economic circumstances had the opportunity to develop a skill at writing well enough that someday she could hire herself out as a secretary plus, she lived at home not in a workhouse. Hopefully, if she were a real person in time she would celebrate her reality that is making her who she is.

[Babi]

 JONATHAN, I believe you are right about Dickens attitude towards women, but I'm not
at all sure Mrs. Jellyby's 'mission' was worthwhile. I have the strong impression she
knows next to nothing about Africa and what is needed to set up a successful coffee
plantation. It seems to me this is a big ego trip for the lady, giving her a sense of
importance.

 JOANP, I don't doubt before we are done we will note several characters that seem to
be prime candidates for murder. Dickens books always seem to have a splendid mixture of
the noble, the gentle, the down-to-earth, and the detestable.

[Jonathan]

I can't help feeling that the crime will turn out to be arson. In the preface the author talks about Spontaneous Combustion. At the end of Chapter 1 we read:

If all the injustice it has committed, and all the misery it (Chancery Court) has caused, could only be locked up with it, and the whole burnt away in a great funeral pyre - why so much the better....

I believe the Chancery Court was set up for civil litigation, and criminal cases were tried in...what...Court of Queens Bench, where court procedures weren't quite as conducive to imaginative lawyering.

Barb, I'm full of admiration at what you got out of the Jellybe scene. That's milking it for all it was worth. By doing so you're really getting at the genius of Dickens. His misery often comes with a dollop of mirth. I'm wondering about Dickens' frustration at not getting a word out of Mr Jellybe. That's extremely uncharacteristic of Dickens' people. Perhaps Mr Jellybe turns out to be an arsonist. His wife is certainly an authentic alpha-phenom.

[PatH]

I'm not
at all sure Mrs. Jellyby's 'mission' was worthwhile. I have the strong impression she
knows next to nothing about Africa and what is needed to set up a successful coffee
plantation. It seems to me this is a big ego trip for the lady, giving her a sense of
importance.

EXACTLY!  She doesn't sound very sensible on the subject, and has no lasting interest in it.  Mr. Kenge, describing her to the wards, says "She has devoted herself to an extensive variety of public subjects, at various times, and is at present (until something else attracts her) devoted to the subject of Africa; with a view to the general cultivation of the coffee berry--and the natives..."

Notice that "and the natives".  Dickens is good at the tiny understated dig as well as the broad brush.

[BarbStAubrey]

Arson hmmm we shall see what we shall see.

Babi I love it, you are so good at summing up the color of a writer -

Dickens books always seem to have a splendid mixture of the noble, the gentle, the down-to-earth, and the detestable.

PatH looks like you picked up on how scattered is the mind of Mrs. Jellyby.

Looks like we are starting the next installment - in life I guess it would be like picking up the newspaper from the corner tobacco store or maybe if the town were large enough there would be boys hawking the paper.

First thing needing reference is the sixth seal - Because of the time in history I am thinking the St. James version of the Bible is probably the best to use don't you think...

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

OK that is a lot of dark prediction.

So any of you remember the rag man - ours came by in horse and wagon - no longer collecting bones but rags and paper. During the war when we were all saving balls of tin foil and paper etc. he no longer rode through our streets calling out rags...

Wow what a description -

His throat, chin, and eyebrows were so frosted with white hairs and so gnarled
with veins and puckered skin that he looked from his breast upward like some old root in a fall of snow.

[PatH]

"Curiouser and curiouser"; yes, we're starting the next section today, and we have a fine collection of new scenes and new characters.  Dickens sets up a lot of puzzles and throws out a lot of hints, without giving us any answers yet.  We can have a lot of fun speculating, but anyone who has finished the book is going to have more and more trouble not giving anything away.  There are new questions for those who want them.

[JoanK]

Yes, I can't help wondering. I'm sure the old lady and the rag-picker will show up later, probably when we have forgotten all about them -- thank goodness fot the list of characters.

Krook reminds me of the TV program "Hoarders", real life stories of people who accumulate things until their houses and lives become unworkable. I watch it every Monday night, and then madly go through things and throw things out. Krook is clearly one of those -- notice he buys all these things and never sells anything. Dickens had an eagle eye for all human foibles.