Elegance of the Hedgehog ~ Muriel Barbery ~ Book Club Online ~ April 1st

[JoanP]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  everyone is welcome to join in.

"Prickly and popular novel on class and culture" -    "Central to the book's appeal is the compelling voice of its main character, Renée Michel, a 54-year-old Paris apartment-building concierge who struggles to hide her self-taught erudition and cultivation from snobby, rich tenants. She disdains their élitist notions of class and social order, but she knows the residents would be outraged at discovering what a deep grasp the hired help has of art and learning. So Renée masks her intellect behind the persona expected of her lowly station." Time Magazine The second narrator in the book is the precocious 12 year old daughter of one of the tenants, who hides her intelligence  from a world she finds meaningless.  The two characters neatly mirror one another in a philosophical tale of contrasts which succeeds in resolving some issues of life and death.

Discussion Schedule: April 1-3 ~ Marx Preamble pgs.17-27 April 4-12 ~ Camellias ~  pgs.31-129 April 13-16 ~ On Grammar ~ pgs.133-170 April 17-21 ~ Summer Rain ~ pgs.173-238 ~ (Topics for April 17-21) April 22-26 ~ Paloma ~ pgs. 241-315 April 27 ~ My Camellias ~ pgs. 316-325 Final Thoughts

For Your Consideration
April 13-16 ~ On Grammar ~ pgs.133-170

1. According to psychoanalysts, what does an involuntary act signify? What is it about the new tenant that overwhelms the concierge, causes her to shudder, while asking herself if she wants to be found out after years of hiding?

2. What made the tenant suspect that this lowly employee, the concierge, would know the source of her comment regarding unhappy families?

3. Why is Paloma so taken with Mr. Kakura Ozu? Is it believable that he would confide his suspicions in this child - that the concierge is not what she appears to be?

4. What had Paloma observed earlier that made her think Mme. Michel is not a "real" concierge? How can she see what no one else can see, "the refinement of the hedgehog" in the concierge? Does she exaggerate her elegance here?

5. What is it about M.Paul Nguyen who makes Renée forget to hide who she really is? Is there something straightforward about the Japanese that causes this response, not just Mr. Kakura Ozu?

6. Why does Manuela's description of the new sliding doors delight Renée? Is it the doors, or the conversation they are having about the doors?

7. How do Madame Michel and Paloma view the importance of proper grammar? Did you agree with Paloma's views on education as expressed in her debate with her French teacher, Madame Fine?

8. How does Paloma regard those who "know neither the enchantment nor the beauty of languages"? Does Madame Michel look at them in the same way?

9. Why does Madame Michel admire M. Kakuro for having only one of everything? What does this tell her about him? Do you have matching end tables, lamps?

10. Do you agree with the Japanese, that you can only savor a pleasure if you know it is ephemeral? 

Relevant Links:
Online Dictionary (English);
Glossary of posted Definitions
French-English Dictionary;
Hôtels particuliers; An Interview with Muriel Barbery;

Discussion Leaders:  JoanP & Eloise

[JoanP]

Gum -  I can't decide how Renée approaches her reading, how she selects what she will read next.  Is she looking for entertainment - the Russian novels would seem to indicate this - but what is it that drives her to philosophy?


MarjV - so glad you got your book!  Since you've been following along reading the posts, you are probably aware of some of the more difficult to grasp concepts - 
I'm so happy that you are enjoying the book so far. 

Thank you for the tuiles aux almandes recipe, by the way.  When we read the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society, I  made the potato peel pie and served it to my husband.  Loaded with extra sour cream and chives of course -  I'll just say that he will be much happier with the tuiles...  Have you tried the recipe yet?

Her friend, the Portuguese cleaning woman brought tuiles wrapped in elegant carmine tissue to her friend, the concierge, treating her "like a queen" - It was as if she is paying homage with these offerings.  I'm assuming she purchased these delicacies twice a week on her meager pay.   Do you have friends who think this much of you?

Speaking of catching up, Eloise and I have talked and agreed to put off beginning the "Grammar chapters" until Monday morning.  There are still some points worth addressing before moving on.  The revised discussion schedule is in the heading now.

I know there is so much here,  as Gum says  it is worth reading carefully as future chapters will be based on these.  Though we can't possibly address everything,  let's bring that which has captured our attention  to share.
Babi - yes!  Paloma speaks of "building for the future"- this is really positive thinking, isn't it?  I am so eager to hear your response to the last two entries in her PROFOUND THOUGHTS notebook - Number 7 and then  Profound Thought No. 8 beginning on p.125 -

If you forget the future, you lose the present.

 

I was blown away by what she has to say in this one - had never thought about this in such a way before.  Not so much at her feelings about her Mamie in  the "home" -  but beyond that...did it strike you as it did me?  Are we preparing today for tomorrow?  Please reread that last page!

I'd like to join Eloise in wishing you all a sunny dawn tomorrow!

[Eloise]

Sometimes I want to just sit still and think a long time over a simple chapter like when Renée reflects at the news of Pierre Arthens’ death on page 106.

I have no posthumous affection for Pierre Arthens, but I find myself wondering about like a lost soul, unable even to read. The camellia and the moss had offered me a brief but happy interlude from the coarseness of the world: now that is over, leaving no hope, and my heart is bitter, tormented by the darkness of all these unhappy events.

When of a sudden Old Japan intervenes from one of the apartment’s wafts a melody, clearly, joyfully distinct. Someone is playing a classical piece on the piano. Ah! Sweet, impromptu moment. Lifting the veil of melancholy….In a split second of eternity, everything is changed, transfigured. A few bars of music, rising from an unfamiliar piece, a touch of perfection in the flow of human dealings. She is moved by the sound of music that wafts a melody from on of the apartment above…. She leaned her head slowly to one side, reflect on the camellia on the moss of the temple, reflect on the cup of tea, while outside the wind is rustling the foliage, the forward rush of life is crystallized in a brilliant jewel of a moment that knows neither projects nor future, human destiny is rescued from the pale succession of days, glows with light at last and, surpassing time, warms my tranquil heart.

Do thoughts like these from Renée rescue her from her façade of coarseness to one of elegance? Is this the real Renée? I would have a very hard time to pretend to be someone I am not, how about you?

[MarjV]

Eloise and Joan - no , I haven't tried the tuiles recipe.   Made easy fudge yesterday which I will share tomorrow with a friend.       I might try it in the future.

I think - if your livelihood depends on it you can definitely pretend to be other than you are.    I might, in my immediate thinking, be able to pretend for periods of time but not a whole persona - however, it's not a question of livelihood or survival at this time.
   Plus:  Renee doesn't need to do that with her friend that I can remember from reading your posts.

[PatH]

I'm a very food-oriented person, so this post is going to be about food.

Eloise, the cherry plum has to be a fruit.  It occurs in 4. Refusing the Fight.  Renee is saying that Kant's texts are great works of literature because they pass the cherry plum test.  If you bite into a cherry plum at last you understand everything. 

She describes the test: "I place the fruit and the book on the...table, and as I pick up the former to taste it, I also start on the latter.  If each resists the powerful onslaught of the other, if the cherry plum fails to make me doubt the text and if the text is unable to spoil the fruit, then I know I am in the presence of a worthwhile...undertaking, for there are very few works that have not dissolved...into the extraordinary succulence of the little golden plums."  Little golden plums sounds like mirabelles to me.  What is the French here?

Tuiles aux amandes: thanks for the link, Eloise, it was an ego boost for me, since, after reading the text first, I could understand most of what she was saying.  She put sliced almonds in the batter, where my recipe calls for pulverized almonds.  Any comments?

[Eloise]

Pat, This is the mirabelle.

http://www.thefrenchybee.com/hediard-fine-french-preserves-mirabelle-cherry-plum-french-jam-132oz-p-62.html

This is the French sentence from your quoted above.

Je dépose le fruit et le livre et, entamant le premier, me lance aussi dans l'autre. S'ils résistent mutuellement à leur assauts puissants, si la mirabelle échoue à me faire douter du texte et si le texte ne sait gâcher le fruit alors je sais que je suis en présense d'une entreprise d'importance et, disons-le, d'exception tant il est peu d'oeuvres qui ne se voient dissoutes, ridicules et fates, dans l'extraordinaire succulence des petites boules dorées.

What do you think about this part Pat? Renée is as passionate about the fruit as she is about the book and one cannot go without the other. I wonder how many she will have eaten while reading the book though?

Mary, no with her friend she can be natural. To bake tuiles would take too long, 4 at a time. There are too many of us here so it wouldn't be practical it would take all day.

[straudetwo]

Éloïse, thank you for identifying the fruit and for printing the paragraph from the original text.  In the English translation that paragraph begins with

"The cherry plum test is held in my kitchen. I place the fruit and the book... little golden plums."
Is the underlined sentence not in the original text, then? 

The preceding paragraph in the translation starts with "The cherry plum test is extraordinary for its disarming clarity. It derives its power from a universal observation: When man bites into the fruit, at last he understands. What does he understand? Everything.  ..."  (A propos, is that a sly reference to the tree of knowledge in Paradise?)

What is the French term given for 'cherry plum'?

It's good to know we have until Monday before we go on.  I have a few more Profound Thoughts to study again.

[Gumtree]

Long ago, my father grew Cherry plums in the garden. In Australia they are the first variety to ripen and have a  very short season - just a few weeks which coincides with the short season Renee experiences with them. Those grown here are not golden but a rich dark plum/cherry colour - they are small, about the size of a very, very  large cherry - thus 'cherry plum' I guess. They are very juicy - as Renee says 'succulent' and I quite understand her description of the juice dribbling down her chin. They make an excellent jam.

 If you click on the picture of the plums below you can see how juicy they are

[Gumtree]

I just went to google and here is wikipedia on cherry plums

Cherry Plum

[Eloise]

Forgive my ignorance my friends, I never ate or recognized cherry plums so I looked in Wiki and the translation is 'myrobalan'. It grows in warmer climate than up here around Montreal. When I see them at the farmer's market they sell it at an exorbitant price I never bought any. Cherry plum is in fact Mirabelle as Pat explained, I guess a deformation of the word Myrobalan. Try to say that fast and over the years it sounded like Mirabelle. Cute.

Yes Traude that sentence is in "The cherry plum test is held in my kitchen". but Pat had not included it.

Laura, just to come back a little, Renée talks to her cat as a Professor of Philosophy, so Renée is the Professor when she is not the concierge. Is that how you read it?

Gumtree, indeed they look delicious.



 

[Babi]

Do you really think Manuela bought those expensive things, JOANP. Since they were so nicely wrapped, you may be right. I have been assuming they were offerings or leftovers from places where she worked.
  Oops, I just read the post where it was suggested we wait until Monday
to begin on "Grammar".  Since it is now Sunday, may I please proceed?
I've written my notes/post on my notepad already, and I don't want to lose them or make a special folder for them.

"Art is life, playing to other rhythms."  I'd love to hear some of your comments about this line. I'm not quite sure what to make of it. It sounds good, but what does she mean by it?

"...you can tell if you've said, or read, or written a fine sentence. You can recognize a well-turned phrase or an elegant style."
  This brought back a memory to me. When I was a freshman in college, I worked part-time in the college library. Another student worker and I got to talking, and she was saying that she knew all the rules of grammar. (I don't recall how we came on that subject.) I confessed that I had not memorized all the rules, but I knew what was right and what was wrong, probably from all the good literature I had read.
  She got a little huffy, and said that wasn't possible, and went on to announce that the entrance exams paced her in the top 10% of students in English.
  Well, I shoud have kept my mouth shut, but I couldn't resist. I replied,
"That's nice. I'm in the top 2% myself."  Well, she practically called me a
liar. This time, tho', I controlled my tongue, simply stared at her, shrugged
and walked away. Why should I rain on her parade? (Yes, I know, very trite phrase.   )

  Things are moving along much more smoothly now, and we're getting into the 'story'.  I'm terribly curious to see Mr. Uzo's apartment myself.

[Laura]

Eloise asked, “Laura, just to come back a little, Renée talks to her cat as a Professor of Philosophy, so Renée is the Professor  when she is not the concierge. Is that how you read it?”

I am not sure where the passage is that you refer to, but I think Renee talks to the cat because she doesn’t have a person there at the moment she wants to talk.  I wonder if Renee ever wanted to be a teacher/professor?  I do like how both Renee and Paloma used their cats as examples in their thoughts and examples, Renee with phenomenology and Paloma with movement.

I noted the idea of the game go at the end of profound thought no. 7 --- “that in order to win, you must live, but you must allow the other player to live.”  It reminds me of the economic pie analogy, where everyone can have a “piece of the pie” because the pie will keep getting bigger if everyone works with each other instead of against each other.

As for what will finally bring Renee and Paloma together, I think it will have to be an outside force of some kind, something beyond their control.  Time to find out…

[JudeS]

After reading the article on Hedgehogs as pets I understand them better than before.  Even though they are cute, charming and can be litter trained I find it hard to see them as elegant. Yes, I know their elegance is supposed to be hidden behind their prickly exterior but nevertheless  it is a metapJhor that doesn't quite make it for me.

However the main problem I am having is the fact that I want to be swept up by the charaters and/or the action when reading a novel.  I don't want to contemplate the author on every other page. 

These two main characters, Paloma and Renee, seem to be the author at two different stages of life-as an alienated  adolescent and as a middle aged philosopher hiding behind the skirts of a concierge.

Looking for hope that things will pick up I read all the quotes on the covers of the book, all the excerpts  quoted from the newspaper reviews and everything on the back and inside front cover.All the praise given the book gives me hope that the philosophical musings will lessen as the action heats up (Or at least reaches luke warm status). 

The Deux ex machina has arrived in the form of "a wealthy Japanese man".(I quote the cover of the book). The quote continues, "He befriends Paloma and is able to see through Renees time worn disguise" etc.

Since this info is on everyones cover I hope I am not giving anything away.  I continue to follow all your enthusiasms and have learned about cherryplum jam and camellias. My neighbors camellias are pink and red  and last much longer than a day or two.  She has no moss for them to fall upon.  I have moss in my back yard but no camellias. Life is not perfect.

[BarbStAubrey]

I vaguely remember reading about the Cherry Plum festival in the Lorraine area of France and here is some information - I cannot find it now but there is a small town that has a month long festival where everyone in the town dresses in old native costumes and the site had all these arts and crafts activities for moms living in the area to do with their children.

There is a big August Festival for the fruit in Metz.

The second web page you have to scroll down and the blog really explains someone's reaction to these sweet wonders along with a photo of a cluster in a tree.

http://tiny.cc/h6EAS

http://www.whytraveltofrance.com/2006/08/

When I make tuiles aux almandes I  use an old wooden rolling pin as a form so that while they are warm from the oven I drape them over the rolling pin to give them the Tuille shape - tile like the tiles of a roof, shape.

Here is a wonderful site in French showing how to make Tuiles aux almandes
http://scally.typepad.com/cest_moi_qui_lai_fait/2008/05/tuiles-aux-aman.html

[JoanP]

Bonjour mes amies!  Mouth watering posts, yesterday!  MarjV, I am hoping you gave some thought to the packaging of the easy fudge you brought to your friend yesterday!

You were all quite busy understanding the autodidact's approach to reading  yesterday - the book must be able to hold her attention over the cherry plum.  Really, it is droll, don't you think?    What would your test be?  I can't decide whether it would be fine chocolate, like this bunny left under my pillow yesterday - or no, wait - an unsolved Sudoku vying for my attention would be a real test...
Here's a question for you - how would this book fare in your kitchen test?

Babi- still smiling at your exchange with the braggart who knew all rules of grammar!  You and Renee would enjoy one another's company, I just know it!  Yes, I think the story is finally picking up- now that we have laid the groundwork.  (I'm still hoping that someone will comment on Paloma's Profound Thought No.8 on p125 - remember you are free to comment on previous chapters, even if we have moved on...)

Jude, I just had to go look up "Deus ex machina"   before going any further in the Grammar chapters  this morning
-
from Random House -

Deus ex machina–noun
1. (in ancient Greek and Roman drama) a god introduced into a play to resolve the entanglements of the plot.
2. any artificial or improbable device resolving the difficulties of a plot.

How about that - M. Kakuro Ozu - not only a "device resolving the difficulties of the plot - but a god - introduced to get things going!  He sure does emanate some god-like qualities, don't you think?

You've  noted the Japanese influence in these chapters, and the fact that the author lives in Kyoto, Japan with her husband.  At first I was under the impression that he was Japanese, but Eloise pointed out that he is not  Japanese at all - Stephane is  French  - a French philosopher, if I remember correctly.  I'm wondering what it is about the Japanese approach to life that draws these two philosophes - and whether it is common for philosophers, philosophers in general, to arrive at the superiority of the Japanese way of thinking.  Just musing out loud here in sunny Arlington this morning....

Wasn't that an earth-moving moment for our concierge - her first meeting with the new tenant?  Almost like love at first sight.  Something happened.    Do you believe in love at first sight?
I think the action we have all been waiting for has just begun!

[Babi]

 I'm having trouble with 'elegance', too, JUDE.  Part of the problem is that
I am accustomed to thinking of elegance in terms of graceful women of fashion.
Elegance is style and dignity in mind and taste, as well.  And an ingenious idea
is also 'elegant', as in "an elegant solution".  Maybe Paloma gets her 'elegant
hedgehog' image from the idea of herself as an elegant mind hiding behind bristles. Renee is doing much the same.

My neighbors camellias are pink and red  and last much longer than a day or two. She has no moss for them to fall upon.  I have moss in my back yard but no camellias. Life is not perfect.

  That gave me a smile, JUDE.
 On the first meeting of Mr. Uzo and Renee, I can't say that 'love at first sight'
popped into my head, JOAN.  Renee was startled and alarmed to realize that Mr. Uzo was not deceived by her concierge camouflage. Her impulse was that of the rabbit or fox, to retreat deeply into her den.  Uzo, though, really intrigues me. Here is a person who is deeply interested in other people.  I wonder if he is really the film-maker? It would take someone with deep insight into others to make the kind of films Renee has described.

[Eloise]

The Josses live in 4000 square feet? My, that is a large apartment Joan P. But is it only the square footage that determines if a family can take in their aged parents? Obviously not and in the past few decades it is the tendency to send old folks to retirement homes for another decade even if they are still well enough. I often think about that too.

I am glad we talked about the Cherry Plum, I will not ignore them at the market any more after learning about them Pat. Thank you. I don’t know when I will try baking tuiles because as you can’t make more than 4 at a time. I only know that each patisserie française is heavenly when I taste them in France, they don’t eat those except for a special occasion I was told.

What was that Profound thought you wanted to comment on Traude?

Babi before we talk about grammar I must tell you that I don’t remember any of it, in French or in English. Everything I learned was after I left school and I don’t dare say when that was.

You are the only woman I know who has ever made some tuiles Barbara, even my sister who is an accomplished French cook. I can just imagine what they taste though. Lots of butter plus almonds, what better combination but I don’t know if I would prefer pulverized or sliced almonds Pat.

I will be doing a lot more cooking that before in a few weeks because the kitchen downstairs where my daughter and family live will be torn apart and renovated, all cupboards will be taken down, ceramic tiles removed, a new paint job etc. etc. I might try to some tuiles, but I won’t put them to cool on a rolling, that will be much easier to do. 

[MarjV]

I like the Renee .   She is totally an individual.   And her friend.   I had a neighbor quite like Renee.   And I always enjoyed our coffee chats.    She was totally other than the "hillbilly" character she and her family portrayed to the nieghborhood.   I missed her when they moved back down to the South.

I must admit to almost rolling on the floor over the chapter of "Bacon for the Cocker Spaniel".    Just deliciously funny.    Here we have the dogs at their very basic.    Here we have the 2 women at their very snobbish , life is something other than reality, selves.   

[JoanP]

Eloise, it was not so much the reasons Paloma's "Mamie"  went to live in the retirement home (my grands call me  "Meanma" - I liked this touch - giving her a real grandma name) -   but the fact that like so many people, she spent her last days bitter and unhappy living in such a place.  Actually, her place was quite lovely, it just wasn't where she thought she'd end up.

Paloma remembers that she had decided to build - to look for the positive...it was difficult during this visit though - - she couldn't find anything good to say about the place.  where's the joy, she asks.  Their final hours are spent in boredom and bitterness, endlessly revisiting memories.  This whole passage was difficult for me to read, but the message struck me and I think it is worth taking the time to talk about it -

She goes on with her observation that adults that surround her are so stressed out,  hurrying about, , meeting deadlines, not thinking about tomorrow...

"But if you dread tomorrow, it's because you don't  know how to build the present and when you don't know how to build the present, you tell yourself you can deal with it tomorrow, and its a lost cause anyway because tomorrow always ends up becoming today, don't you see?

...we have to live with the certainty that we will get old and that it won't look nice or be good or feel happy. ... tell ourselves that it's now that matters, now, at any price, using all our strength.  ...we have to surpass ourselves every day, make every day undying.

That's what the future is for:  to build the present with real plans ..." 

Never mind that this doesn't sound like an observation a 12 year old would make - it is still a profound thought, don't you agree?  (Profound thought No.8.)   It sure had an impact on me.   I understand what is being said...the need to prepare for the  formidable days that lie ahead as we lose much of what we have today.   The author seems to be saying that you can't really prepare for those days - but you can make each day in the present count - because the present has a way of becoming tomorrow before know it.

[straudetwo]

Éloïse,  I have been pondering several things.  One was Mme Michel's reaction to the news that M. Arthens is dying.
How she softens hearaing the polite request by the doctor, unusual as it is.  Such a simple gesture, at long last a ray of sunshine.

The other hopeful sign is Mme Michel's realization that "my penchant for lower forms of culture does not necessarily represent the indelible mark of my lowly origins ..." in Chapter 9 Red October, toward the end "As I was saying". 
Eureka! Confidence is emerging!  The inferiority complex is not as deep-seated as it seemed. Truly a caesura!

JoanP, re Question # 3.
Naturally Paloma is delighted to have the chance to hear the correct pronunciation of a simple salutation in Japanese, something her teacher could not provide, as she complained to us.   With any foreign language, total immersion à la Berlitz method is unsurpassed  IMHO.  In this country we discount the value of foreign languages, unfortunate though it is.
It is even sadder that people speak their own language often carelessly and incorrectly. Some of what comes out of people's mouths on TV (e.g. in Judge shows) is horrible.

So I wholeheartedly agree with the comments concerning language, the power of words, their proper use, and the value of  grammar and orthography.  When I read those sections for the first time I wanted to stand up and cheer.  Sadly, I had no chance: in our oral discussion we never got that far.  I may be forgiven for speaking with such  vehemence and passion, but this, after all, is my métier, my chosen profession,  and was my livelihood. One has to be accurate doing that kind of work,  for obvious reasons.   

Also, Éloïse,  I still would LOVE to know what French words the author used for  "cherry plum" . I checked my French-English Larousse and also the all-French Le Petit Larousse.  Please,  Éloïse, what ARE the words in French?

I was wondering, is there a discernible difference between Paloma's Profound Thoughts and the successive entries in Journal about the Movement of the World?

[Eloise]

I am sorry that I wasn't clear about that Traude.

Also, Éloïse,  I still would LOVE to know what French words the author used for  "cherry plum" . I checked my French-English Larousse and also the all-French Le Petit Larousse.  Please,  Éloïse, what ARE the words in French?

Cherry plum in the French version is Mirabelle

[Babi]

ELOISE, I worked for some years as a nursing home inspector for the State of Texas.  Living like that would make me miserable, but there are individuals who
take to it quite well.  Mostly, these seem to be people who like other people around them, and were lonely and somewhat isolated living alone. 
  We had my grandmother living with us for a while, but we had three noisy, active kids and much as she loved us all, she needed more quiet.  It is so very
much a individual thing, where and how one would prefer to live.

[JoanP]

Good morning!  Great questions...let's keep them in mind as we read future chapters. Do you feel a breath of fresh air  with the arrival of M. Ozu?  Babi, I looked in Netflix for the Ozu films so beloved by our concierge - and did find them in French.  I am not sure about the director's first name - didn't think it was Kakura though...It seemed longer.  It is quite a coincidence to see the same name though - there must be reason for it - unless Ozu is a common Japanese name - like Smith or something.
Renée certainly sized him up quickly, didn't she?  Did you list the characteristics she noticed  at first glance?

Traudee asks - if there is "a discernible difference between Paloma's Profound Thoughts and the successive entries in Journal about the Movement of the World?"  What do you think?  Have you noticed yet?  Are you noticing a more positive attitude in her entries - in either notebook, since she's begun to keep them?    I had been thinking that once she met up with Madame Michel, she would have  a positive influence on the girl that would dissuade her from her suicidal plan.  But now, I'm wondering if she isn't finding her way...herself.  What do you think?  Improvement in her attitude, or no?

Traudee brings up important points on the use of proper grammar - to tell the truth, I  found myself more interested in Paloma's lecture to her teacher regarding the way in which grammar is taught.  The way in which anything is presented to impressionable adolescents, actually.  Paloma blew her cover in that exchange, didn't she?  She will be closely watched in her classroom performance from now on. 

[Laura]

I liked this section of reading much better than the previous section --- more “action” and an interesting new character.

I didn’t think love at first sight when Renee met Monsieur Ozu.  I think Paloma describes very accurately what attracts both she and Renee to Monsieur Ozu on page 169, just at the end of this section of reading:

This is the first time I have met someone who cares about me when he is talking: he’s not looking for approval or disagreement, he looks at me as if he to say, “Who are you?  Do you want to talk to me?  How nice it is to be here with you!”     [Talk about grammar, I think there is an error in that sentence with “as if he to say”]

I am especially enjoying how Monsieur Ozu is tantalizing Renee with references to Tolstoy, starting on page 135 with his mention of “Every unhappy family is unhappy is unhappy in its own way.”  I can’t wait to read about Renee’s reaction when she receives a copy of Anna Karenina from Monsieur Ozu!

[straudetwo]

Right, Laura, true. That error escaped the attention of the editor (if there was one).

During my first reading I stumbled on another error,  an idiomatic term used often in English: I couldn't care less,
which us correct.
Sometimes we also hear the  form of it "I could care less" which doesn't mean the same thing at all and is wrong.

Both the correct and the incorrect phrase appear in the book - and 'm trying to find it. That too has to be laid  at the translator's doorstep.

Errands to run back later.

[JoanP]

This is just the time to talk about Grammar, isn't it?  I'm struck by the diffierence in Paloma's acceptance  of poor grammar usage  - compared to the way the concierge feels about those who are careless with the rules...
I definitely would not fault the author of the book - in either the error Laura sites, or the inconsistancy Traudee points out - the author is at the mercy of both the translator and the editor, once the book leaves her hands.  Traudee, perhaps you have noted the page numbers on which you noted the "care less/not care less" inconsistancies - and then Eloise might look in the French version to see what the author actually did say...I'm willing to bet there is no "inconsistancy"  - as Traudee noted.

[straudetwo]

JoanP, I'm sure it's the same term in both instances, the fault is the translator's.

[Eloise]

The French has all the necessary words, but we notice that Paloma in the French version is often using teenage contemporary jargon that I find quite amusing and refreshing. I often compare both versions and the translator went all out to find an equivalent to the disconcerting French narration and I think she did very well considering the challenge.



This is the first time I have met someone who cares about me when he is talking: he’s not looking for approval or disagreement, he looks at me as if he to say, “Who are you?  Do you want to talk to me?  How nice it is to be here with you.

The French version says:

C'est la première fois que je rencontre quelqu'un qui se soucie de moi quand il me parle: il ne guette pas l'approbation ou le désaccord, il me regarde avec l'air de dire,: "Qui es-tu? Veux-tu parler avec moi? Comme j'ai plaisir à être avec toi.


I also noticed that in French there also seems to be a word missing between "j'ai" and  "plaisir" where there should be a "du" Comme j'ai du plaisir à être avec toi". but I am not about to correct anything Barbery writes.

I have noticed several such typos or something or other.

In  "he looks at me as if he to say" The word "he" should have been deleted I think.

[Gumtree]

He looks at me as if he to say
Perhaps we could just blame the proof reader 

I have been thinking about the word 'Elegance' and what it relates to in our two hedgehogs. In Renee I am beginning to think that it is the quality of her mind that is elegant as she has shown us time and again with her private ruminations. Sadly her mind is hidden in her everyday dealings with her 'betters' . There is also elegance in the sense of her intrinsic worth as a human being which only Manuela and now perhaps Mr Ozu, can see. That's not quite what I mean to say but I'll work on it.

I don't think it was 'love at first sight' at Mr Ozu and Renee's first meeting  but rather the recognition of a kindred spirit. Renee had to bolt to her den to deal with the feelings it aroused, after all, it was the first time she had experienced such emotion.

With the Profound Thought No 8 - If you forget the future you lose the present young Paloma begins to grow up. When she sees her grandmother in the home she glimpses and begins to understand the fact of human mortality - her own included. She says:

 ...tell ourselves that it's now that matters: to build something, now, at any price, using all our strength. Always remember that there's an old people's home waiting somewhere and so we have to surpass ourselves every day, make every day undying. climb our own personal Everest and do it in such a way that every step is a little bit of eternity.

What she doesn't yet understand is that those around her, her parents  and Colombe, in their own way, are  attempting to build their present for the future.  Isn't it what we all try to do?

Now that her Grandmother has moved to the nursing home I'm wondering where Paloma will go  to take the sleeping pills after she sets fire to the apartment. Or did I miss something?

[Eloise]

Oh! Traude, when you find the page I will look it up but don't forget I am no authority on the matter and usually I just pass over these things because people have to forgive me my own mistakes, I can't be one to find fault.

Gumtree, would you think that Renée is quite satisfied with her own life in private behind the doors of her loge with her cat, her books and her friend Manuela that everything else doesn't matter that much to her?

There is also elegance in the sense of her intrinsic worth as a human being which only Manuela and now perhaps Mr Ozu, can see.

Good point

Now that her Grandmother has moved to the nursing home I'm wondering where Paloma will go  to take the sleeping pills after she sets fire to the apartment. Or did I miss something?

No you didn't miss anything, but as it was said before, her plans for suicide were not that well defined were they?  Are those plans slowly starting to fade away I wonder?

[JoanK]

Well, we need someone like Mr. Ozu to move the plot along. But the author overdoes it by a fair bit. A Japanese man who shares Renee's love of Russian literature and Dutch still-lives (lifes?) Come on! There are beautiful creations all over the world. It's as if the author is saying that only those who share her particular tastes are worthy to be kindred spirits. This is that streak of snobbishness that has bothered us throughout.

None-the-less, I am enjoying the book tremendously.

[straudetwo]

That's what is was, as Gum said, the instinctive realization that here was a kindred soul, another admirer of Tolstoy, even!
Mr. Ozu has both Mme Michel and Paloma pegged. He could be seen almost as unifying force in a house where the residents had exhibited little interest before in what went on beyond their own closed doors. They are curious and abuzz over he radical transformation of Mr. Uzo's apartment. There is some much needed levity, too, thank goodness. (Mr.  Ozu and Paloma conveniently alone in a stopped elevator is a little too pat, but we take it, gladly.)

JoanP,  you asked : Was Mme. Michel happy in her loge and isolation? 
I don't think so.  How could she?  What good were the insights she had gained from all this voracious, indiscriminate reading if she couldn't 'compare notes'  about them with anyone (until now)? 
'Resigned' may be the better word.
But changes are a-coming ! Just in time.  The edifice of the story is erected on fragile premises not every reader is willing to swallow wholesale.

[JoanP]

Oh my, I'm walking around with so many thoughts in my head - my husband keeps asking me if I'm feeling all right.  How do I tell him that I'm thinking about the meaning of love at first sight?    I have to ask, did it ever happen to you?  Do you think it is possible?  It happened to me only once -  and I must admit, I never got over it.  Laura, Gum, Babi,  you see   Renée's response to  Mr. Ozu as "a recognition of a kindred spirit,"  - "the realization that he sees through her camouflage" -  and " the first person who cares about me when he is talking."  Don't you think this is a powerful response to someone you have just met?  Someone who knows you instantly, who cares about you, someone with whom you "click"  - a kindred spirit.  If it's not love, what do you call it? The start of a beautiful friendship?

You might not have noticed   the French translation Eloise posted -  "Qui es-tu? Veux-tu parler avec moi? Comme j'ai plaisir à être avec toi.  - This is the personal form of "you" - used only among close friends, family members, etc.   Who are you?  Do you want to speak with me?  How happy I am to be with you...  He seems to have the same effect on Paloma - is this how he comes on to everyone, or just those with whom he feels a special rapport?

I'm not sure the gentleman is as affected as is the concierge, however.  But for this lonely woman, hiding  her true self from the world all these years, well,  I think the earth has moved...

JoanK - I'm puzzling over these coincidences too - the author is a highly intelligent philosopher, careful with her words and expression...Perhaps she and her husband discovered their love for Russian novels, shared tastes in Art, music, etc...and  so this seems plausible to her.  What is M. Ozu's background, his education - do we know that yet?  I'm thinking he is highly educated, and continues to pursue that which interests him now. "  Renée as we know, has been a scholar of Art, literature and music...film, all of these years.  Maybe it's not so strange that the two have such similar tastes, with such broad experience.

I have other things buzzing in my head too - but will sleep on them...

Among them - Gum's question regarding  the way we are all preparing  for the future today. (Are we?)  Babi's question on the meaning of - 'Art is life, playing to other rhythms.'  Whether Paloma is stll gathering sleeping pills from Maman's stash, or is she moving away from her plan to burn down the building and go to grandmamans home to swallow the pills.  (For some reason I think this is her maternal grandmother's place, Gum.) Oh and then  there's the "elegance" question - is Paloma an elegant hedgehog - or is this  whole thing about  the elegance of the concierge...

Maybe I'll dream some answers to some of your questions... 

Night, all!

[Babi]

STRAUDE, that phrase "I could care less" has always annoyed me, too.  It is the
opposite of what was intended, and it sets my teeth on edge every time I hear it.

I thought the same thing, GUM, about elegance.

I don't know, JOANK. Our concierge has lived there for many years without finding a soul who even recognized her as a person, much less had any curiosity about her. Can it be so impossible that one person eventually shows up who loves russian classics and art. I'm sure still-lifes are not all he has in that apartment.
    Is it snobbishness we are seeing, or is it self-protecting defensiveness?

  It is wonderful the difference Mr. Uzo is making in Paloma’s life.  “…he looks at me as if to say, “Who are you? Do you want to talk to me? How nice it is to be here with you.”    Mr. Uzo has “”this attitude that gives the other person  the impression of  really being there.”  This is a first for Paloma.

[JudeS]

Re: the Question_"According to Psychanalyst what does an involuntary act signify?"

First and foremost let me explain, for anyone who doesn't understand what  a Psychoanalyst is and does. 

1:He or she is Not a Psychiatrist.  A Psychiatrist is a medical Doctor specializing in the study of Brain Disorders and Mental Illness. He can dispense medications,  meet with patients for therapy or just to see how the medication is affecting them.  There are also Child Psychiatrists who are Medical Doctors specializing in Childhood disorders such as Autism or Attention Deficit Disorders.
Freud was a Medical Doctor specializing in Neurology.

2) He or she is not a Psychotherapist or a Psychologist.  These Professions demand that the person pass an oral  and written Exam in order to get a LICENSE to practice.  If they do something that goes against the exacting rules of their profession their Board will, after a trial, take away their license to practice.

[Laura]

Several of you have mentioned the coincidences upon which the books built, something I hadn’t noticed or thought about.  After reading your thoughts, I specifically thought about Monsieur Ozu being able to read both Renee and Paloma.  I don’t find this coincidental or unbelievable.  I think Monsieur Ozu is one of the few people to look at and truly see both Renee and Paloma.  We have talked abut how both were isolated and ignored, and how they noticed when he noticed them.  I think Monsieur Ozu is a person who can read people, and takes the time to do so.  I am looking forward to seeing more of his interaction with both Renee and Paloma.  Oh, and by the way, when are Renee and Paloma going to interact?!?!  LOL!

[JudeS]

This is a continuation of the previous post which somehow ended all of a sudden.  Please read that post before you begin this one.
What is a Psychoanalyst?
He or she goes to a Psychoanalytic Institute which is not attached to a University but which is an entity unto itself.  The candidate may or may not have a Bachelors or a Masters or a Doctoral degree.  If the person is accepted as a Candidate to be a Psychoanalyst he will have an established Psychoanalyst as his mentor and under their direction will see patients for three to five years and keep deep and extensive notes which will be perused weekly by their mentor. If they succeed they can open their own office. 
Psychoanalysts see their patients for three to five times a week for 50 minutes at a high fee.  By calling the people who attend these sessions 'patients' and not 'clients' they maintain a pseudo medical air.

As in any profession or class 50% of the people are below average and the lowest 10% may be barely passable.
The portrait that Burbery paints is of a person of the lowest possible level.  Quite unfair.

[JudeS]

I really don't know why or how my posts got so messed up. The space for the first post ended all of a sudden.  I went back and thought I saw it posted and so I continued the post as a separate entity .  Now I went back and found only Part 2 of the post- How frustrating !
The posts were describing the wide differences between a Psychoanalyst, a Psychiatrist and a Psychologist.  Basically the post was finding fault with Burbery's very disparaging and unusual description of the Mental Health profession.

In the United States today ther are very few Psychoanalysts since theirs is NOT a University Degree and there is no State Board monitoring their work.

[JudeS]

Oh, the mystery is solved.  Laura's post came in between my two first posts. so please don't skip Laura's post but do read my now four posts in the order they were written.

Joan K. and Eloise              -Why has the space for REPLY been cut short?

[JoanP]

Well, I'm not JoanK - and don't have the answer, as I've not seen that before, Jude.  I have seen the post box disappear forever, however...which is more frustrating, you will have to agree.  I have also seen the post box appear shorter...but could keep on typing and watched it expand.

Let's put it in the "MYSTERY" category - and just be happy that nothing you posted is lost.

I had a difficult time with the word "Psychoanalyst" - (why isn't it psychoanalist?)  I remember that it was the psychoanalysts who described the significance of Madame Michel's  involuntary shudder upon meeting with M. Ozu. 

Perhaps you have read on into the Summer Rain chapters , Jude ?  We'll save the discussion of those chapters for Friday  to get a closer look at the "doctors" you describe.  I think we need to look at the matter in  context - on Friday.  You mention that there are very few few Psychoanalysts in the US today.   Perhaps it is different in France?  Perhaps we will find that Barbery is not finding fault with the entire profession, but with those the elite find fashionable  - for whatever reason.

I think it is interesting to note  Muriel Barbery's husband's background, which Eloise was kind enough to translate from the French -

Institut d’Etudes Politiques de Paris (Sciences-Po) (1992)
Licence et Maîtrise de Philosophie à l’Université Paris I Sorbonne (1993-1994)
Licence et Maîtrise de Psychologie clinique et pathologique à l’Université de Caen (1999-2000)
DEA de Psychopathologie fondamentale et Psychanalyse à l’Université Paris VII, associé à un stage au CMPS de Bayeux (2001). Statut de psychologue garanti par le numéro Adeli 14930001-4
Formation certifiée à l'EMDR auprès de l'Institut EMDR France (2004-2005)
DU Stress Trauma et Pathologies, Université Paris VI, Faculté de Médecine Pitié-Salpêtrière (2005-2006

Translation -

Paris Institute of Political Science (1992)
Licence and Masters (degree) of Philosophy from the Paris University Sorbonne (1993-1994)
Licence and Masters (degree) of Clinical Psychology and Pathology from the Caen Univesity (1999-2000)
DEA (?) of Fundamental Psychopathology and Psychoanalysis of the Paris University, Associate in Training at CMPS of Bayeux. (2001) Status of Psychologist guarenteed by the number Adeli 14930001-4.
Certified Formation at the EMDR Institute of France (2004-2005)
DU Stress Trauma and Pathologies, University of Paris VI, Faculty of Medicine Pitié Salpêtrière. (2005-2006)

I think it's save to assume that the author is aware of the differences - and is describing one of those "doctors" maman would find fashionable, but not necessarily effective.  Let's wait until Friday.  Thank you for clearing up the matter, Jude - I'm sure it will make the episode in Summer Rain more understandable!