Three Cups of Tea ~ Mortenson & Relin ~ May 1st ~ Book Club Online

[BooksAdmin]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  everyone is welcome to join in.

Three Cups of Tea by Greg Mortenson & David Oliver Relin "The first time that you share tea with a Balti, you are a stranger" a villager tells our author.  "The second time, you are an honored guest.  The third time you become family." ~ Three  Cups of Tea ______________ Three Cups of Tea is an inspirational story of one man's efforts to address poverty, educate girls, and overcome cultural divides.  This book won the 2007 Kiriyama Prize for nonfiction revealing the enormous obstacles inherent in becoming such "family." ~ Bookmarks Magazine

Three Cups of Tea -- Homepage. Ignorance -- the Real Enemy. Synopsis and Biography. Readers' Guide by the Author. K2 Mountain.

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Discussion Schedule May 1 - 7         Chapters 1 - 6 May 8 - 14       Chapters 7 - 12 May 15 - 21      Chapters 13 - 18 May 22 - 31      Chapters 19 - End

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1.  What made Mortenson particularly ripe for such a transformation?  Has anything similar happened in your own life? 2.  Is Mortenson someone that you would like to know, work with or have as a neighbor or friend? 3.  At the heart of the book is a powerful but simple poliical message: we each as individuals have the power to change the world, one cup of tea at a time,  etc.

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Discussion Leaders: Andy(ALF43), JoanK & Pedln

[ALF43]

Please- come in and join this fabulous discussion about this astonishing man who found the power to "make a difference"- One cup of tea at a time. 

We welcome your comments, your thoughts and your insights into this remote area of the world.  We will be fortunate to have folks here who have shared information with us through informative links, as well as personal experiences.   If you have book in hand, a map has been provied for our reference which I found extremely helpful.

Do sit down, prop up your feet as we transition with Greg Mortenson from the second highest mountain in the world, the dreaded K2, to a decade long mission to build schools throughout the region that gave birth to the Taliban and sanctuary to Al Queda.

At SeniorLearn.org our mission is to read, share, learn and respect all poster's opinions.

Come on down!!!

[JoanK]

I’m really excited about this discussion. This is a really inspiring book, and reading it with such a great group of friends gives us a chance we don’t often have to experience and learn together about a part of the world that I, for one, will never get a chance to visit from people who know it well. So put on your warmest clothes, drink a cup of butter tea, and we’re off to a village in the Himalaya too small to be on the map.

[pedln]

Lace up your boots, grab your pack, and join us in Korphe and the Baltistan as we learn more about Greg Mortenson and the people he has worked so diligently with in Central Asia.  This book takes place in an area that is close to the forefront of the world’s headlines, from where much disturbing news comes every day.  Now we can meet the ‘real people’ who live there, learn about their lives and hopes and dreams.

[Justin]

When one is lost, disoriented, and exhausted the sight of another human is so significant and the relief it offers is so enervating that one will remember the event a lifetime. I can understand Mortenson's desire to compensate in some meaningful way.

Once, while swimming off the coast of Ulithi Atol I became separated from other swimmers in waves so high I could not tell which direction was seaward and which shoreward. Some time passed before I heard shouting from the beach but after swimming in what I thought was the direction of the sound I soon realized I was moving farther out to sea. The sounds disappeared and I realized I was lost and disoriented as well as tired. The salt spray made it difficult to breathe. Choppy water splashed against my nose and mouth as I tried to tread high in the water but my leg muscles were cramping. I remember, eventually, rising up to the crest of what I thought was a wave and sure enough it was and ,suddenly, the beach came into view. People were walking about and no one was paying the slightest attention to me. I swam to shore experiencing great relief and a very sunburned nose. It was sometime before I ventured back into the ocean for a swim.

 The event was common place, I suppose, but inability to find my way to safety raised my anxieties to an interesting level and I would have been very grateful for the sight of another human being. I am not at all sure I would have been grateful enough to spend ten years building schools for islanders but then not everyone can be a Mortenson.
 

[ALF43]

That is a frightening account Justin and one that I can relate to as well.  When you become discombobulated and off course, it has a tendency to make you desperate.  In many instances one feels that fate has spared them and from that--  promises abound, steering a person onto a different life's journey.  This is what happened with Greg M., he was grateful to the people that saved him and it altered his entire perspective on life.

[ALF43]

Hooray, hooray the 1st of May .
OUr new discussion begins TODAY!

Good Morning and welcome to our official book discussion of Three Cups of Tea.Please note in the heading, our first week we will be discussing Chapters 1 through 6.  Please limit your observations and comment to these first chapters.  Together, we will take it slowly as we respectfully enjoy this journey uncovering  these layers of multiculturism. 

Each week I will put three questions in the heading, provided by a Reader's Guide.  They do not limit us in any way. Please feel free to incorporate any questions of your own.

I would like to initially mention David Oliver Relin, the collaborator/co author, who readily admits that even though, as a reporter, he wrote this story, it was Greg Morenson who lived it.  This must have been quite a two year undertaking for a reporter to observe and journal the unfolding of the dreams and hopes of not only Mortenson but the entire remote village of Korphe.

I'm sure this guy will never be the same.

I would like to know if there is anyone here who has been to this removed area of Pakistan?
Is there anyone here who has ever been to Pakistan? 

[Babi]

Alas, I still have not received my requested interlibrary loan.   Usually I get a book pretty quickly that way, but perhaps this particular book is too popular just now.  I'll be in the library this morning and make inquiries. Here's hoping.

[ALF43]

Babi- I surely hope that it is available to you.  Do stop by and give us your insight, sans book.  the discussion should be fairly easy to follow.

[pedln]

Babi, do stay with us, even though your book has not yet arrived.  We always like to hear what you have to say.

Justin, what a scary experience, especially knowing the dangers of going the wrong direction in open water.  And not even a boat or a rope to hang on to.

Andy, I’ve never been in Asia, let alone Pakistan, and I must confess, really don’t know much about the area.  I’ve been looking a lot at maps, my own software map and Google Earth.  What really surprised me was how close this particular area is to China.  K2 appears to be really close to the border, practically on the border.

[ALF43]

 k2 Mountain


Unlike GM, a 35 year old former medic and nursing student, I would be more than stunned by my failure to climb the "The Savage Peak",  frankly -I would be terrified.
 Imagine after 78 days of struggling to reach the summit the last 600 meters of it became unatttainable to this guy!

[ALF43]

drats, I can't get this link to work

[kidsal]

Have browsed through Google Earth and was amazed at how many people lived along those rivers (deep gorges) and farmed. 

Mortenson was lucky to get out alive and am sure felt a responsibility to those people who saved him.  He did promise a school and went he got back to civilization began to forget his promise.  Fortunately he turned that around and committed himself to the project.

Last day of Latin    

[mabel1015j]

Hi all - i'll be lurking, i've got too many things going on at the moment to read the book, plus, i'll be away for 2 wks in the middle of May, but i find the topic inspiring, so i'm anxious to see your comments and links........................jean

[PatH]

  Imagine after 78 days of struggling to reach the summit the last 600 meters of it became unattainable to this guy!

It must have been even more disappointing because it wasn't his fault--he had to rescue someone else who had been too rash, and that did him in.

[PatH]

Jean, the book reads quickly if you decide to take it along.

[JudeS]

I bought "Three Cups of Tea" and had planned to participate.  However my F2F book club is reading  "Dreams of my Father" by Obama.  I hadn't realized what a serious book it is and just how long it would take me to read it.  One can't go breezing through that book. However as soon as I finish I will join you in this discussion.  It will probably be a week from now when my Book Club meets.

I too had an experience like Justins when I was nine years old.  I was with a friend on a desertd beach (Our parents thought we were somewhere else) and we kept getting tossed further and further out to sea when we spotted some high rocks fairly close and we let the waves push us into that direction.  It took us a long time to recover and the mile walk on sharp rocks , back to the shore was excruciating.  I certainly never underestimated the power of the Ocean after that and have been wary of going too far out when swinning ever since.  How easily we could have drowned!

[ALF43]

Pat's right Jean, the book is an easy read and moves right along.  Lurk, comment and enjoy the journey.

Jude- we would love to have you join us.  It's a much different read than "Dreams of My Father" but perhaps you'll get a break and can peek in here with us.  It is just a different dream than President Obama attained.

Pat noted that the failure wasn't all his fault.  While restocking the high camps for the lead climbers with supplies, a distress signal was spotted & even though they called for volunteers to assist,  noone came forward.  This left only the two exhausted men to come to their teammates aid evacuating a fellow climber who was suffering from pulmonary edema, also known as "wet lungs."  This rescue cost the men their goal.

48 men had already lost their lives to the Savage Mountain and thank God for Mortenson's  skills, his teammates survived.

"It was a world of glaciers and crags, an incredile view which could satisfy an artist just as well as a mountaineer."

   
Are those glaciers of a mountain the same as those of the sea, with gases trapped within from eons ago?

[Justin]

The Northern Map shows three glaciers in the Karakoram Range. I had no idea there were glaciers remaining this far away from the poles. An image of barrenness and dry lands with desert is, I thought, the more common conception of this Asian area. I must look at Google Earth to clear up any geographic misconceptions I continue to harbor.

I think it was on the glacier that Mortenson lost his way.

[ALF43]

Yes, iJustin, it was on a glacier that his "mountaineering boots were independently steering him down the Baltoro at their own glacial speed."  

When I first read that, I re-read it in disbelief.

[JoanK]

I'm glad to see you all -- my computer went dead yesterday, and I paniced, thinking I would need to buy a new one. Fortunately, it came back to life last night as suddenly as it had died -- I think it was my service, not the computer at all.

Mortensen was indeed lucky to have emerged alive. I'm a mountain-climbing book junkie, although I am afraid of hieghts, and will never climb myself. Many people have died trying to do what he did -- take care of everyone else with no rest. The slowness, fuzziness of thought, and poor decision-making are typical of those who have been in high altitude too long.

I really fault his guide for losing him twice -- the first time was understandable, but after finding im and seeing his condition, he should have never let Mortensen out of his sight. Do you all agree?

[pedln]

Here's the link to the download for Google Earth. 

Google Earth

[ALF43]

Oh Pedln, that Google Earth site will be my downfall.  I've been browsing since 6:30 this AM and resent having to leave it to go somewhere this AM.  It's awesome.  How do these poor people exist there?

I found this :

Baltis are of Tibetan descent and Wikipedia says that Baltisan contains some of the highest
mountains and longest glaciers in the world.  Baltistan possesses approximately fifty peaks with heights of more than 20,000 feet (6,100 m) above sea level.
Mighty K2 - the second highest peak in the world at 8,611 meters in height – is situated here, overlooking the Shigar valley.

Justin-The glaciers - the longest in the world outside the Polar Regions, reaching to a length of 90 kilometers – surround Baltistan in the north and west directions, separating her from China and Gilgit.

The region lacks major industry. As permanent sources of job opportunities are lacking, thousands of people have left the region either temporarily or on a permanent basis to go to
other parts of Pakistan and the Middle East.

Although climatic conditions are harsh and inhospitable, the village people of Baltistan are among the most friendly and hospitable of mountain peoples in Pakistan.

[Babi]

 I rejoice to say that my book was waiting for me at the library yesterday morning.  I promptly began reading it on returning home, beginning with Mr. Relin's Introduction. I was charmed to read that Mortenson's group "has attracted what has to be one of the most underqualified and overachieving staffs of any charitable organization on earth".   I was once part of a group like that, and it is amazing what heartfelt dedication can achieve.
  Relin writes of the difference Mortenson has made among the villages of
Pakistan.  "...he has singlehandedly changed the lives of tens of thousands of children, and independently won more hearts and minds than all the official American propaganda flooding the region."
  Relin goes on to say that we, as Americans, have failed to make our case to
the mass of people of the Muslim world, and that we need to listen to what
Greg Mortenson is saying.  I'm 'listening'.

[ALF43]

Babi- I am so pleased that you have book in hand to join us in this discussion.  What a joy it must be to those who have truly made such an extensive difference in the world.

I love high-spirited people and love this quote of the Balti way of life:

"They conive, complain and fustrate one to the utmost. ....if you are able to overlook their roughness, you'll learn they serve you faithfully." 

As we've read,  GM was graciously welcomed into Korphe, a village that had never seen a foreigner and a place that Mortenson had never heard of before..

One would have to have great trust in another human they have never met when mountain climbing.  Your life is their hands and our "sherpa" Mouzafer was in his mid-fifties.  That is scary and yet he kept constant vigilence on Mortenson.
GM learned much of the Balti language while climbing with Mouzafer.

[pedln]

Babi, I’m glad you got your book.  And you can be sure we will all be “listening” to Mortenson’s message as we read about his adventures and experiences.

JoanK, I can’t fault Mouzafer for losing track of GM the second time.  They were past the “danger” zone, supposedly on the trail, and had established a pattern of Mouzafer going ahead and having camp ready when GM reached it.  It was the trees that caused GM to veer off in the wrong direction.  He knew the trees meant civilization, and, following them, failed to notice the fork in the trail. 

Andy, that Google Earth is very addictive, and I’m finding I need to learn more about how to use it.  I don’t always find the same things twice.  Earlier today I found several references to Three Cups of Tea, and even a photo of the Korphe School, but now I can’t get back to them.  A bit of a learning curve.

Regarding trust – yes, really necessary.  But Mortenson had been on lesser climbs before, and probably had an idea of what to expect from the porters.

I'm trying to visualize Mouzafer in that little cable box high above the river gorge -- a dangerous trip, but much faster than trekking.  I don't know if I'd have that kind of trust.


Basic Users Guide to Google Earth

[JoanK]

We Westerners take such pride in our mountain climbing abilities, ignoring the fact that the local people who serve as our guides do two or three times as much work with no heroes welcome. I'm glad to see the world is finally acknowledging that it was Tensing, not hillary, who was the first to summit Everest.

I own a copy of the AMC movie about climbing Everest. If you get a chance to watch it, I think you will like it. The Discovery channel also did a series on a group that climbed Everest. It may be available through Netflix.

[Persian]

I have attempted to download and view Google Earth 6 times.  Although there are 6 indications on my screen, none of the instructions to which I am directed when I click on any of the 6 work for me.  For example, I am directed to click on _________, which does NOT appear on my screen.  I finally wrote on a piece of paper all of the instructions, turned off the computer, restarted it again and thought I was just missing some instructions.  Again, none of the directions to click on a specific spot appeared on my screen.  What am I missing here?

Mahlia

[fairanna]

Mountain climbing is something I only want to live vicariously  with my knuckles white and biting my nails but for some reason reading true stories of climbing mountains have always fascinated me...I said I would do this plus two other  books but a death in the family kept me from doing anything >>today I went to B&N and bought a copy  will read tonight and return tomorrow ..tomorrow ......

[winsummm]

Justin your experience reminds me of one I had when I'd first learned to  float and got pulled out into the surf. a life guard came and got me. I was eleven years old and have never forgotten it. a crucial experience.

Mortenson was on a spiritual journy hoping to honor his sisters death at the top of K2 and wasn't able to complete it. It left him very depressed and vulnerable to his own dangerous position, lost, disorientated and expecting to die.  The guide who found him and saved him was a part of what he later did in the struggle to build the first school.
   I was glad to get a picture of what this country is really like, the mountains and gorges and the difficulty in travel, the isolation and the  meaning of that third cup of really stinky tea. The culture explained some of the current problems we are having there also. Lots of information has made me aware that o;ur lives are completely different than theiers.  We have to work to understand them and we must.

I own and have read the book and so far have not checked to see where in the  story the assignment ends at chapter six. I will try not to get ahead of us though. It's a wonderful book. I loved it.

 In my opinion, Mortenson  as a mountain climber   is persistent in the  pursuit of his sport which suggests to me that he has the character which could  lead him to challenge all obstacles once he'd decided what he wants to do.

claire

[kidsal]

PERSIAN:  try going to http://earth.google.com
on upper right hand side - Download Google Earth 5.0

After it has downloaded you should have an icon on your start up page -- looks like a little planet earth.  From there you can enter the site.

Also if you want to keep track of places, there is a little yellow thumb tack on the upper tool bar.  When you are at a place you want to remember, click on the thumb tack.  It will ask you to give it a name.  Then it will set the thumb tack on the spot so you can find it again.

Wonder what will happen to the schools now that the Taliban is moving back into this area?

[Babi]

 I found this site of Galen Rowells work, and picked this part of it. The pictures are so incredibly beautiful, I had a hard time tearing myself away.
http://www.mountainlight.com/gallery.arctic/images.html

ALF, not only was Mousafer in his mid-fifties, he was about 5'4"
and leaping 'effortlessly' over crevasses with a 90-lb. pack on
his back! The strength of these people is amazing.

David Relin really has a way with words. "..the broad set-backs and buttresses of maroon and ochre granite that built, with symphonic intensity, toward the lone soaring finale of their peaks..."

 Lover of words that I am, I was thrilled to learn that the people of Korphe speak an antique form of Tibetan.  What a boon it must be to scholars of archaic languages when pockets of people are found actually speaking one of the old tongues.  I can imagine what a tremendous boost it gives to the translation and understanding of old texts.  Ah, sometimes I think I missed my calling. 

[fairanna]

I started reading last night and was mesmerized by the wonderful , descriptive words and the tenacity of those who brave the  unknown ...it is  just spellbinding ...I am not near the 6th chapter I think I stopped at 3 but my eyes were tired and it was late...to read further would most likely meant I would have to repeat...I am so glad this was chosen ...like the air atop the mountains ..it is rare.

[ALF43]

 Good morning one and all.

 I just returned from church where the pastor gave a sermon about "trials and tribulations" which will lead to change within a person.
 I couldn't help but drift off and think about Mortenson and how his adverse ordeal led him to a different path in his life.  One burden, led to another; his distress and misery opened up a whole new world to him and hundreds of others.  It puts it in a different perspective to think about it in that way, doesn't it?

As winsumm mentioned, GM was on a spiritual journey due to Christa, his neurologically damaged, epileptic younger (by 12 years) sister who was also his goddaughter.
GM says of her:
"She faced her limitations with grace." 

He majored in neurophysiology at IU in hopes that he would some day find a cure for Christa.  Christa died at age 23 after a grand mal seizure and when Greg was approached by another climber about joining the expedition to K2, he dedicated his climb to the memory of Christa. 

"He'd find a way to wring some meaning out of this meaningless loss."

[ALF43]

fairanna-  haha, I quite agree with you about the vicarious living aspect of mountain climbing.

You take care with those eyes of yours, this is a long journey and we need you to arrive at the summit of OUR journey safely and in good health.

Babi- I hope that was a typo but our boy was 6'4- leaping and avoiding the crevasses.

Thanks kidsall for your help with Mahlia's difficulties with Google.   
Persian did you see the url for basic TIPS using Google that was provided by pedln?

Oh by the way go to the very top and notice that the discussion schedue is up on the right- just before the 3 questions.

[Persian]

KIDSALL - thanks for your suggestions about installing and managing Google Earth.  I've spent about 30 minutes trying to figure out how to add the program and then access the various information.  The program was intalled, but then several full-screen cautions came up warning that "this program might negatively impair" other programs and the overall functioning of my system.  I immediately ran a couple of virus checks and decided that I really didn't need Google Earth if I have to worry about what it might do in the future.  I'll just read info from other posters and enjoy the program from afar.

ALF - I can truly appreciate GM's dedication to his sister's challenges with epilepsy, as I was diagnosed when I graduated from the 8th grade and in those days the future was dire.  At that time I was told I could never undertake any physical challenges, would probably not be able to marry or have children, could definitely not travel, and most likely would have to remain at home with parents for the rest of my life - which most likely would be short.  MY mother was devastated in much the same way that GM's family must have felt, but I didn't feel that way.
And I am delighted to say that many of the young folks whom I've met over the years who also struggled with grand mal and petite mal seizures (and other life-challenging issues connected with epilepsy) felt empowered to follow some of their own dreams.

It is heartening to learn about GM's love and dedication to his sister and her memory as he continued meeting and addressing the challenges in his own life.  The love for and appreciation of one human being doesn't end with physical life, as we learn most clearly from GM's efforts to remember Christa.

In this morning's Adult Sunday School class, we discussed the Book of Daniel and how Daniel interacted with King Nebuchadnezzar and his non-Jewish Court and kingdom.  As we talked, I mentioned this discussion and some of the experiences GM had as he explored a region of the world as alien to many in contemporary times as the ancient kingdoms of the Middle East.  We talked for a few minutes about both time periods and it was fascinating to listen to a roomful of Southern Christians (many of whom have never traveled away from their hometown at any time in their lives) trying to grasp the differences between the regions and time periods.

From my perspective, it was an opportunity to think about how people of very different backgrounds can learn to recognize a wide array of positive qualities about people quite different than themselves, achieve a comfort level with each other,  work together, respect each other and move ahead in many positive ways.  GM illustrates this clearly in Afghanistan as did those described in Biblical times.

Mahlia

[ALF43]

From my perspective, it was an opportunity to think about how people of very different backgrounds can learn to recognize a wide array of positive qualities about people quite different than themselves, achieve a comfort level with each other,  work together, respect each other and move ahead in many positive ways.

I quite agree with you perspective Mahlia and believe that this is what we are all doing here at SeniorLearn when we opt for a book such as this.  It's out of our normal comfort zone, but with a great deal of information available to share we move ahead to respectfully impact one another's thoughts.

[JoanK]

MAHLIA: you are a treasure! You have not only done more than most people ever do, you have helped so many others along the way. I am proud to know you.

[pedln]

Mahlia and Andy, you both have pointed out something that also came up the other day on SeniorLearn's Talking Heads discussion -- how we deal with things or people outside our comfort zone.  Someone was telling about a young man in the music store -- very very knowledgable, and also very pierced on his body.  Sometimes it takes a lot of effort for us to get past the differencees  to seel the things that really count.  We're learning.


A pictoral link for your enjoyment. Click to make it larger.

Porters in the Baltistan

[Babi]

 ALF, I was referring to the Balti guide, Mousafer, who is described as being
a foot shorter than Greg Mortenson.

 Beautiful photograph, PEDLN. The detail is so sharp and clear. Did you get a
chance to look at any of Rowell's photography in the link I posted?

 I think Mortenson made an important point when he said, about the
dedication of the Kilimanjaro Christian Medical Center founded by his
father, "The expats wanted him to say, 'Look what we've done for you'.
But he was saying, 'Look what you've done for yourselves and how much
more you can do'."  It is that difference in attitude that decides how
our efforts are regarded in the countries we try to assist, IMO.
  I find myself frequently reminded of "Charlie Wilson's War". I'm sure many
of you saw that movie. After his successful efforts to persuade our government  to assist the Afghans in their struggle against the Russians, he fought unsuccessfully to persuade Congress to build schools there.  He felt it was the only way to hold on to the advantage that had been gained there.  That same idea is expressed  in a reference to Sir Edmund Hillary's "Schoolhouse in the Clouds".  Congress refused to support Wilson's drive for schools for the Afghan children, and I think we are seeing the results of that shortsightedness
today.