Author Topic: Kristin Lavransdatter  (Read 88465 times)

PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #280 on: May 16, 2015, 11:20:00 PM »
The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

April/May Book Club Online


Kristin Lavransdatter
by Sigrid Undset




This Nobel prize-winning book is the tumultuous story of the daughter of a 14th century Norwegian nobleman-farmer.

  I loved it when I first read it decades ago, and now there’s a new translation which makes it even better.



Schedule: April 21-25  Jørundgaard, Chapters 1-4
          April 26-30 Jørundgaard, Chapters 5-7
          May 1 or 2-4, The Wreath, Chapters 1-3
          May 5-9, The Wreath, Chapters 4-8
          May 10-13, Lavrans Bjørgulfsøn, Chapters 1-4
          May 13-16+, Lavrans Bjørgulfsøn, Chapters 5-8

Book 2--The Wife (The Mistress of Husaby)
          May17+  Part 1, The Fruit of Sin

Questions:

Jorundgaard
Chapters 5-7:
How much control did young people have over who they married?
Why can't Kristin and Arne even think of marrying?
Kristin doesn't much want to marry Simon.  Why didn't she ask her father to release her from the betrothal?
After her encounter with Bentein, Kristin made some mistakes that made her more vulnerable to gossip.  Should she have avoided these?
What do you think of Simon?
In the fuss over Arne's death, Simon behaves very capably and sensibly.  Why does his calmness make Kristin like him less?

The Wreath:
Chapters 1-3

Kristin seems to fall for Erlend instantly and completely.  Does this this seem realistic?  Does Erlend feel the same way?
What is Erlend like?  Can you like or approve of him?
What is the oath the two swear to each other after the dance?  Is it binding?

Discussion Leader: PatH




PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #281 on: May 16, 2015, 11:20:45 PM »
We haven't moved on yet, but it's time.  Does everyone want to read the whole first section--The Fruit of Sin?  If you don't mind 113 pages (in Nunnally) I'd prefer that to splitting it up into two rather small bits.  We can finish anything we have to say about the first book while everyone is reading.

Barb, What about you?  You only had the first book.  Will you be able to get your hands on the rest?  We're going to need your churchly expertise.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #282 on: May 16, 2015, 11:23:40 PM »
Bellamarie you have to be careful with the concept of Free Will - yes, it was in the old Text of the Bible but it was still debated with the concept of predestination and it was only in 1888 that Pope Leon XIII wrote the papal encyclical on human freedom with most of the belief we now have coming about in the twentieth century -

My guess after reading this story of Kristin is that there was so much of life thought to be controlled by behavior and ceremony, omens, amulets, magical words, because of not yet having the knowledge how things happened so that what today is taken for granted then would have seemed a miracle therefore, a controlling force would seem reasonable.

Also, the issue of Free Will and Predestination is wrapped up in the argument that went on for over 1000 years if Jesus was God or Man or both. If Jesus was God than the crucifixion was not the painful ordeal and as God, Jesus could have stopped it but, as man then Jesus was at the mercy of his captors and could not have opened the gates of heaven by his death. This argument is wrapped up with man's free will as described in the old testament or if predestination led to the death of Jesus. This argument was picked up by Luther and Calvin mostly in response to the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas who wrote extensively on free will but it is not till 1888 that we have a more definitive accepted view on free will.  

Trying to sort out what the religion was like during the early 14th century sure is a trick and a half and then as we read to realize Norway was still sorting out what the religion was to them. At this time come to think on it - there was not yet any translation of the Bible except the Latin translation - the Latin Vulgate was still dominant in Western Christianity through the Middle Ages.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #283 on: May 16, 2015, 11:32:05 PM »
Pat I am sorry if I am holding things up - I find so many tidbits we did not look at when we all were so caught up in the story and our moral outrage with Erlend's behavior - I am wondering if it shook some of our feelings for the protagonist, Kristin seeing her choose Erlend - it is so easy to feel attached to these characters as if they were real people.

I still see Erlend as the North Wind, that hard blowing, cold bitter wind that can freeze us to the bone and I am imagining his use in the story is to bring Kristin to a place of understanding and self-determination - I think the word folks are using these days is agency. We shall see what we shall see as we read onward -

If everyone is ready to go forward my second book DID ARRIVE YESTERDAY - used, from Amazon - Hallelujah - however as I see these tidbits I do want to continue to share because to me the book is more than a story about characters and I hope our reading brings us into the symbolism and theme of the book not just the plot and characters experiences and choices.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #284 on: May 16, 2015, 11:45:44 PM »
Barb, there isn't such a thing as holding us up with tidbits--everything we think of enriches the story.
Quote
to me the book is more than a story about characters and I hope our reading brings us into the symbolism and theme of the book not just the plot and characters experiences and choices.
Yes, we do need to look at the book this way too, and if we do it by first analyzing the plot, and then filling in, that's fine.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #285 on: May 17, 2015, 03:04:01 AM »
More riches - when Kristin prays to St. Lawrence - who is St. Lawrence but more, what did he do -

St. Ambrose is the earliest source for the tale - that after the death of his friend from Spain, Pope Sixtus II, who was of Greek origin, one of the most famous and highly esteemed teachers in Zaragoza, was put to death by order of the emperor Valerian, who issued an edict that all bishops, priests, and deacons should immediately be put to death. As 1st Deacon and in charge of the Church treasury St Lawrence asked for three days to gather together the wealth.

He worked swiftly to distribute as much Church property to the poor as possible, so as to prevent its being seized by the prefect. On the third day, at the head of a small delegation, he presented himself to the prefect, and when ordered to give up the treasures of the Church he presented the poor, the crippled, the blind and the suffering, and said these were the true treasures of the Church. One account records him declaring to the prefect, "The Church is truly rich, far richer than your emperor." This act of defiance led directly to his martyrdom on 10 August. St Lawrence was the last of the seven deacons.

According to lore, St Lawrence was able to spirit away the chalice used during Christ's Last Supper (the "Holy Grail") to his home town, Huesca, in present-day Spain, with a letter and a supposed inventory, where it lay hidden and unregarded for centuries. When St. Augustine connects St Lawrence with a chalice, it is the chalice of the Mass:

    For in that Church, you see, as you have regularly been told, he performed the office of deacon; it was there that he administered the sacred chalice of Christ’s blood.

According to Catholic tradition the Holy Grail is a relic sent by St Lawrence to his parents in northern Aragon. He entrusted this sacred chalice to a friend who he knew would travel back to Huesca, remaining in the monastery of San Juan de la Peña, core of spiritual strength for the emerging Kingdom of Aragon. While the chalice's exact journey through the centuries is disputed, it is accepted by many Catholics that it was sent by his family to this monastery for preservation and veneration. Historical records indicate the chalice has been venerated and preserved by a number of monks and monasteries through the ages. Today the Holy Grail is venerated in a special chapel in the Catholic Cathedral of Valencia, Spain.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #286 on: May 17, 2015, 03:44:09 AM »
aho - I think this was an important one that we should know about - there is a literary device called the unseen character that gives clues to the plot and helps to give a clue to the protagonists state of mind.

Well after reading about St. Margaret from Scotland, which makes more sense to be venerated in Norway than a St. Margaret from Greece or the St. Margaret from Alexandria, and the amount of attention to St. Margaret given in the story - which by the way there are still active these guilds that are insurance policy guilds - a friend joined and got very good rates at the Hunter's Guild - the guild entitles you to other benefits and social events -

Anyhow back to St. Margaret, I am thinking she is an unseen character that from reading her story I am thinking Kristin had an ideal in her head of how she could marry and influence this knight that rescued her and the way he lifted her onto her horse she felt so "honoured and uplifted". I can see we ought to watch and see how much of the story of St. Margaret foreshadows the life experience for Kristin. Does Kristin have 6 children, does she go off to another community after a marriage...etc.

Here is the story of St. Margaret from Scotland -
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=304
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #287 on: May 17, 2015, 04:07:03 AM »
oh and the riches keep coming - the procession to St. Margaret's Mass includes the Cistercians who established Hovedøya Abbey on an island off Oslo in 1147 - The original monks were from the monastery in England, Kirkstead Abbey that had only been established in 1139 by a group of 12 monks from the largest and best preserved ruined Cistercian monasteries in England, Fountains Abbey. It seems Hovedøya Abbey, during the medieval period was one of the richest institutions in Norway, holding over 400 properties, including a fishery and timber yards.

Here is an architectural layout for a Cistercian or a Benedictine Abbey
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=4658.280;num_replies=286

The Abbey is dedicated to St. Edmund, who was king of East Anglia from about 855, that little is known but he was supposedly martyred in Denmark by the Vikings or maybe even the Danes. More important, the Abbey is also dedicated to The Virgin Mary - during the Middle Ages is when the cult to Mary was established.

"The twelfth and thirteenth centuries saw an extraordinary growth of the cult of the Virgin in western Europe, in part inspired by the writings of theologians such as Saint Bernard of Clairvaux (1090–1153), who identified her as the bride of the Song of Songs in the Old Testament. The Virgin was worshipped as the Bride of Christ, Personification of the Church, Queen of Heaven, and Intercessor for the salvation of humankind."

And in the early 14th century comes the Vierge Ouvrante from Cologne. When closed, the hinged sculpture is of the Virgin nursing the Christ Child, who holds the dove of the Holy Spirit. Her garment opens up, like the wings of a triptych, to reveal in her body the figure of God the Father. He holds the cross, made of two tree trunks, from which the now-missing figure of Christ hung. The flanking wings are painted with scenes from Christ's infancy or Incarnation, that is to say, the embodiment of God the Son in human flesh.


All Cistercian houses were dedicated to the Virgin, under the title of the Assumption, ‘Queen of Heaven and Earth’, and throughout its history the Order was closely identified with its devotion to her cult. Mary was first celebrated in the Cistercian liturgy in 1152. The Little Office of Our Lady was sanctioned as a community prayer in 1185, her votive Mass celebrated on Saturdays from 1220, and by the thirteenth century the Salve Regina, in many ways a defining feature of the Order, was sung at the end of Compline to conclude the liturgical day.

Wow and another bit where the circumstances sound like foreshadowing some of Erlend and Lady Aashild's experiences, even touching symbolically on the death of Erlend's rival, the deceased Arne.

When Saint Bernard's mother dies in France he becomes a Cistercian and three years later, he was sent to establish and build a new abbey also in France. Bernard assisted at the Council of Troyes putting together the outlines of the Rule of the Knights Templar, who soon became the ideal of Christian nobility. Upon the death of Pope Honorius II in 1130, a schism broke out in the Church. Louis VI of France convened a national council of the French bishops, and Bernard was chosen to judge between the rivals for pope. The upshot of this massive travel by Bernard to negotiate between all of Europe's kings and leaders is that Innocence becomes Pope because Anacletus, his rival dies. In 1139, Bernard assisted at the Second Council of the Lateran. Bernard denounced the teachings of Peter Abelard to the pope, who called a council at Sens to settle the matter.

And then the biggie - Following the Christian defeat at the Siege of Edessa, the pope commissioned Bernard to preach the Second Crusade, led by Louis VII of France (his wife is Eleanor of Aquitaine) and Conrad III of Germany, with help from other European nobles. The Second Crusade in an utter failure and during the last years of his life Bernard is saddened by this and the entire responsibility for the Crusade was thrown upon him.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Halcyon

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #288 on: May 17, 2015, 08:37:27 AM »
Barb - Don't ever think your "tidbits" are holding us up.  They give us a rich background to the story's plot and help us understand how the European world worked in the Middle Ages.  It's interesting how the church has taken Christ's simple message of love, compassion and forgiveness and turned it into politics and intrigue.  It seems like the church is in some ways like our Supreme Court, trying to make just decisions based on interpreting ancient events.  

bellamarie

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #289 on: May 17, 2015, 09:20:23 AM »
PatH., I am okay with splitting up the 100+ pages.  There are 6 chapters in The Fruit of Sin, I will read up to chapter 4 and stop, ( pg. 275-324).  

Barb, Your information about the early church is fascinating!  When you state Jesus could have saved himself from his crucifixion, yes as a human I suppose he could have fled, but as divine, He knew his purpose was to fulfill scripture.  His human emotions led him to pray in the Agony in the Garden:

Matthew 26:36-46 Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37 He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.” 39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” 40 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter. 41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.” 42 He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.” 43 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44 So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

We have to keep in mind when we refer to the "Church" being responsible, these are human beings, they were give the ability to think and feel with emotions, ideologies, aspirations, and yet they were also capable of the seven deadly sins that would bring them to making decisions in contradiction to God's laws.  Given freewill, to make choices causing them to be sinners, is something I am certain God knew would happen, and so there is where the sacrifice of Jesus was important in the Christian faith, bringing forgiveness, and showing the greatness of God's love for all....yes, even these sinners who choose to use their power for their own gains.  

Much like Erlend, Olaf etc., and then you have Lady Aashild using potions and mystical powers to gain her place of importance.
 
The seven deadly sins, also known as the capital vices or cardinal sins, is a classification of vices (part of Christian ethics) that has been used since early Christian times to educate and instruct Christians concerning fallen humanity's tendency to sin. In the currently recognized version, the sins are usually given as wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony. Each is a form of Idolatry-of-Self wherein the subjective reigns over the objective.

The Catholic Church divides sin into two categories: venial sins, in which guilt is relatively minor, and the more severe mortal sins. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, a mortal or deadly sin is believed to destroy the life of grace and charity within a person. "Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us – that is, charity – necessitates a new initiative of God's mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation."[1]

According to Catholic moral thought, the seven deadly sins are not discrete from other sins, but are instead the origin ("capital" comes from the Latin caput, head) of the others. Vices can be either venial or mortal, depending on the situation, but "are called 'capital' because they engender other sins, other vices".[2]

Beginning in the early 14th century, the popularity of the seven deadly sins as a theme among European artists of the time eventually helped to ingrain them in many areas of Catholic culture and Catholic consciousness in general throughout the world. One means of such ingraining was the creation of the mnemonic acronym "SALIGIA" based on the first letters in Latin of the seven deadly sins: superbia, avaritia, luxuria, invidia, gula, ira, acedia.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

It can get a bit controversial depending on where the reader is in their personal beliefs today.  It's interesting the comparison you have made with Kristin and St.  Margaret, we will have to keep this in mind as we go on.
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BarbStAubrey

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #290 on: May 17, 2015, 10:23:24 AM »
Bellamarie I gave a synopsis of the arguments used by those deciding if Jesus was God or Man or both - they were not my thoughts - and as you stated, if Jesus fulfilled scripture, as the response by those who believed Jesus was God then, using Logic and the basic principles of Philosophy in order to develop Theology as they did, is how that argument also believed in predestination - had not heard the idea that Jesus, as man could have fled - interesting thought - the church started to come to an agreement at Chalcedon but it continued to spiral for another almost 1000 years. 

This issue is no longer an argument within the church - the Roman Catholic Church accepts the Trinity and accepts that Jesus was both God and Man however, it was not yet settled as a point of Theology at the time in history that our characters Kristin and Erlend lived nor has it been accepted by the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church.

Today, it is easy to use the Biblical versus as proof but those versus were not considered proof when this argument took place. The argument, often taking front stage at council after council and in the writings of the Popes and the Doctors of the Church, was debated using logic to prove this many sided issue. 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #291 on: May 17, 2015, 10:29:33 AM »
Oh lordy here we go again with the lightening - gotta get off and for how long who knows - we really need the rain but this has been going on now for almost 3 weeks - at least the lakes that were only 38% full have risen some so that one of the many boat ramps is finally touching water and the report is in that the St. Edwards Aquafer is up by 2 inches so that we will have enough water to see us through the summer - oh another really gotta go...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #292 on: May 17, 2015, 10:53:02 AM »
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, a mortal or deadly sin is believed to destroy the life of grace and charity within a person. "Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us – that is, charity – necessitates a new initiative of God's mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation."


In the currently recognized version, the sins are usually given as wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony. Each is a form of Idolatry-of-Self wherein the subjective reigns over the objective.
[1]


This is the essence of what I personally feel this story is about.  The transformation and conversion of Kristin.  It is her personal and spiritual struggle/journey throughout these chapters.  The subjective reigns over the objective.

It could very well be the author's life as she too converted to Catholicism.  

I love how Kristin, even though she has this great love for her faith and God, she shows how our human nature can overcome or overshadow that love, and distract us by our wants, desires, and how others can influence our choices, good or bad, in separating us from our own personal relationship with God.  Ultimately, this is what I feel Kristin's goal is, and will be the ending of this story.  The death I see will be Kristin's old life, taking on a new life, as we have been taught to do through our journey through the Lenten season, bearing in mind, Jesus came and died so we may have that second chance/new life, through repentance and forgiveness, and everlasting life.  

I expect Kristin will find her peace and happiness in the end, because I believe her love for God, and her need for herself to have that relationship with God, will prove to be greater than her love for Erlend.  

Barb, Nothing but great admiration, and respect for all your posts. I completely understood it was not "your thoughts." We would be so much less informed without your much researched information.  Now, let's pray God settles all that rain and lightning down for your area.   ;)
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
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PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #293 on: May 17, 2015, 12:02:42 PM »
I've found something really interesting.  I have Nunnally in one volume, but it's also available in three volumes, and while doing an internet search, I found the introduction to one of the later volumes.  The structure of the first book is a ballad.  In Norwegian folklore, the elf-maiden lures young girls into the mountain for orgies with the mountain king.  In the ballad, "Liti Kjersti" is captured for this purpose.  Kjersti comes back to visit home, and her mother realizes she is pregnant.  But Kjersti is carried back again, given a drink of forgetfulness, and stays with the mountain king forever.  There are incidents in which Kjersti becomes dizzy gazing at her garlanded reflection in water.

So here we have the bare-bones skeleton of the first book, but Undset has gone a long way with it, fleshed it out, changed it, added other themes and purposes.

Now what?  The first book is the whole ballad.  Undset is going to do something different from now on.

bellamarie

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #294 on: May 17, 2015, 12:18:00 PM »
PatH., Wow!  this truly falls in line with my theory, Lady Aashild has put this whole relationship between Kristin and Erlend into motion, (Kristin/Kjersti and Erlend the mountain king.)  I can't wait to see where this author does take this, with new themes, twists and turns.

We suspected the Ballard had significance to the story itself, back in Chapter 3 of The Garland.

Leave it to us SeniorLearn members, we never leave a stone unturned!

But keep in mind, this author has also made it her mission to inform the readers of the church history, and teachings.  Very vital to how the characters are acting and reacting to life situations.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #295 on: May 17, 2015, 12:29:49 PM »
Yes, I think we're going to go a long way from the ballad.

JoanK

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #296 on: May 17, 2015, 02:52:09 PM »
Today (May 17th) is Norway's "Constitution Day", the equivalent of our July 4th. It celebrates their becoming an independent nation and signing their constitution. That is centuries in the future for Kristen, but I think we should have a party. I'm putting on my Nowwegian traditional dress now (in my imagination).

http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/norway/constitution-day

PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #297 on: May 17, 2015, 03:56:09 PM »
I'll bring lutefisk. ;)

PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #298 on: May 17, 2015, 04:45:36 PM »
Part 1 of book 2 is kind of one unit, but let's start talking about the first three chapters as soon as we've read them, and add the remaining three a day or two later.

We can also wind up anything we have left to say about The Wreath.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #299 on: May 17, 2015, 06:09:21 PM »
Took a long nap while electricity was in and out - the thunder with the lightening shook pictures off my walls - talk about thinking there is a mountain king - ha only our mountain king would be hundreds of miles away in west Texas - although the storm did come from the west - you never know  ;)

Interesting a Ballad - some of the Ballads in the Francis James Child collection have over a 100 stanzas like The Knight and the Shepard's Daughter but the construction is different - Come to think of it, was Beowulf a Ballad? - I remember we read that when Seamus Heaney came out with his new translation. I wonder if that has something to do with the Archer translation sounding a bit more poetic.

Pat I am not sure I understand - is Liti Kjersti the background folklore or myth that is known in Norway and helps to fill out what happens to Kristin as a child and then later as a young women or is Liti Kjersti the Norwegian name for Kristin and the story we are reading was altered to include more folklore.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

StellaMaris

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #300 on: May 17, 2015, 06:52:48 PM »
Pat H--excellent and fascinating tidbit! This really colors up the story for me. But as I look back, I wonder if Asahild wasn't trying to help Kristin when she dug her nails into her hand while Kristen was losing herself looking at her own reflection--as though trying to bring her out of her trance?

Spinning back on the Kindle to re-read the Mistress of Husaby [gee a paper copy would have been so much easier!]

On a side note: Sorry to hear I missed a discussion of Heaney's Beowulf!
Fiat Lux!

bellamarie

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #301 on: May 17, 2015, 07:29:46 PM »
Here is my contribution to the celebration!!!!

http://mylittlenorway.com/2014/05/food-basics-for-norways-constitution-day/

Food always plays a part in any Norwegian celebration, but the food tradition on the 17th of May is not what you might expect.  There are no 10 course meals with seasonal delicacies that have been traditionally prepared for a feast after the ringing of the church bells.  On a day when children are the feature, you don’t eat adult food.  The day is filled will all the food children like to eat, and that means lots of pølse and is krem! (sausages and ice cream)





Berries are also a feature on the 17th of May, for cakes a desserts.
This year at our school celebration they will be serving lapskaus as a warm option.  Even though the sun is usually shining, it does get a little cold on our 17th of May in the Arctic; we still have snow on the mountains.  Some people like to have fancy meals at hotels but this is certainly not the norm.
17th of May food is very simple really, the bare basics, just like the children’s parade, and the whole day in general.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

JoanK

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #302 on: May 17, 2015, 09:09:43 PM »
That's my kind of holiday! I'm still a child when it comes to eating.

PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #303 on: May 17, 2015, 09:37:48 PM »
Barb, Liti Kjersti is a ballad which applies a general superstition (the elf-maiden luring women into the mountain) to a specific fictional character, Kjersti.  Undset has then taken the ballad and used it as a general outline for her story.  We can't count on complete correspondence, for instance, I agree Aashild is trying to help Kristin come back to reality in that incident.

StellaMaris, most of us missed Beowulf.  It was in 2002.

bellamarie

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #304 on: May 17, 2015, 10:55:33 PM »
Oh dear, I don't think Lady Aashild was trying to help Kristin at all when she dug her nails into her hand.  It would take a stretch of my imagination to consider that, especially afterwards she says:

"Soon enough will it be required of you twain that you shall pay for all you have done amiss__have no fear that it will not be so."

JoanK., I am with you, I love all festivities, because I love the great food everyone brings.  I go way overboard and have tons of leftovers.  The 4th of July is not the same without my Mom's banana pudding.  I make it every year in remembrance of her and my childhood.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #305 on: May 18, 2015, 10:24:31 AM »
Well, Kristin and Erlend are finally married, and so far it doesn't look like "happily ever after", more like "bumpily ever after".  Kristin has married into the nobility.  Were you surprised at what was and wasn't different about her new home?  The manners of her new family?

StellaMaris

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #306 on: May 18, 2015, 10:54:37 AM »

I enjoyed the imagery of Kristin's difficult journey by boat to ther new home, her unease continues even as she travels by land. It gives the idea of a long and difficult shift in her life, much longer than simply from point A to point B.

As well, we see Erlend fully identified with the sea, covered with salt himself and elated by the sea. He seems very at home in that man's world and happy to be heading to his estate with his bride, clueless as he is to her condition.

I was not surprised at all by the poor condition of the estate under Erlend's management. We are told only the horses seem to have had some decent attention [our boy Erlend does like horses...] but Erlend is demonstrated to be ignorant of the law pertaining to keeping fields planted, a law which Kristin actually informs him about. Things are in disarray and poorly husbanded here. It seems as long as Erlend has his own income to maintain his lifestyle, he cares little about how the estate is run.

The biggest surprise to me is the transformation in Kristin once she arrives at the estate. She goes from lovesick maiden to capable farm steward. She enlists the help of Ulf and begins to gain the confidence and alliance of the estate servants. She doesn't crumple despite ill use at Erlend's hand, nor at the fact that most around them know of her pregnancy. She is troubled at the thought her parents will learn of her early pregnancy but continues to demonstrate great competetence at managing the estate. If the author had not used the voyage as an indicator of great and difficult change, it would be hard for me to believe the seemingly quick transformation in Kristin.
Fiat Lux!

PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #307 on: May 18, 2015, 12:28:48 PM »
I like the idea of the symbolism of the voyage.

Quote
The biggest surprise to me is the transformation in Kristin once she arrives at the estate. She goes from lovesick maiden to capable farm steward.
It's kind of ironic considering what Lavrans said to Sir Baard and Sir Munan when they discussed betrothal:
"But now I must tell you in regard to Erlend's offer that my daughter has not been raised to manage properties and riches herself, and I have always intended to give her to a man in whose hands I could confidently place the maiden's welfare.  I don't know whether Kristin is capable of handling such responsibilities or not, but I hardly think she would thrive by doing so."

But her upbringing has actually served her well.  She has plowed with her father, and tagged along with him in his daily routine.  Lavrans' policy of not being aloof from the hard work means that she has seen how a farm is run.

As for thriving, I don't know about the long run, but at the moment, I think the necessity for working so hard at this is keeping Kristin from dwelling too much on her other problems and fears.

bellamarie

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #308 on: May 18, 2015, 01:49:53 PM »
I was surprised to read how horrible the living conditions were at Husaby.  I did not expect Erlend to be a hard worker, but I never dreamed he would allow his estate to be so poorly kept.  I guess Eline was telling the truth when she said how badly in shape it was.  It gave me the creeps reading this:

pg. 279 For Kristin had not much sleep the first night, even though the priests had blessed her bed.  "Twas spread above with silken pillows, with sheets of linen and bravest rugs and furs: but beneath was dirty, mouldy straw, and there were lice in the bed-clothes and in the splendid black bearskin that was spread over all.  Many things has she seen already in these few days.  Behind the costly tapestry hangings, the unwashed walls were black with dirt and soot.  At the feast there had been masses of food, but much of it spoilt with ill dressing and ill service.

But there was a loft half full of flax that had been left lying unused__there must have been the greatest part of many years harvest.  And then a storehouse full of old, old unwashed and stinking wool, some in sacks and some lying loose in heaps.  When Kristin took up a handful, a shower of little brown eggs fell rom it__moth and maggots had got it.

Everywhere she had seen ill husbandry.....   The cattle were wretched, lean, galled and scabby; and never had she seen so many aged beasts together in one place.

And so Kristin Lavransdatter began to guide and order all things in her house.


Well the saying goes, A man's home is his castle.  In this case I was thinking how entitled Erlend is.  He wants nobility, titles and respect, yet he does not lift a finger, nor take pride in the things he owns.  So it's no wonder he did not feel it necessary, to return Lavran's cart to him, he has no pride or care for anything that others find of value, and worth taking care of.

Now that they are wedded and at Husaby, there are sure signs this will not end well.  He has already gotten angry and struck her, and mocked her father and family because she shows the pride and knowledge her father has, and has taught her.  Even their guests come and disrespect them at their table.  What a sham that was.  So, as much as Kristin and Erlend hoped to keep this pregnancy a secret, it seems all are talking behind their backs, and shaming them for their actions.  My worst fears are proving to be coming true for Kristin.  Oh and let's not forget this little tidbit:

pg. 322  'Twas like, then, the folks said sooth that said Erlend Nikulausson was weary of his marriage already, and cared not for his wife. . . .

Only does Erlend shows he cares at all, is when he thinks she is lost to the wolves.  Was that because people would see he failed miserably as a husband, or he really feared her dead?

Without her faith she has nothing, since she does not have her family nearby. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #309 on: May 18, 2015, 07:43:49 PM »
Some fill-in while everyone's reading.

Barb, thanks for the speech from Henry V.  It's a show-off piece for actors, for good reason, and I've always liked it.  I don't know what the real Henry V said to his troops, but the next morning 5000 British and Welsh troops managed to defeat about 30,000 French troops, mostly because of the superiority of English longbows.

I'm confused.  are there two saints, Crispin and Crispian, or is it one name with two spellings?

Beowulf: I'm not an expert on what is a ballad, but I think this isn't one, it's a poem, though I'm sure it was meant to be recited.   I have mixed feelings about Heaney's translation.  It's wonderful poetry, better than the original, but it misses the feel of the original, which has a fierce, pounding rhythm, with not much gracefulness.  When the movie of Beowulf came out in 2007, Blake Gopnik wrote a wonderful article for the Washington Post, describing just how strange the original poem is.  (He had studied it in Anglo-Saxon.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/21/AR2007112102353.html

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #310 on: May 18, 2015, 08:13:38 PM »
Here is a great site about Ballads and more specifically the work of Francis James Child - the blue headings are linked to the definitions with a nice description of what is a Ballad according to History - I loved the Scotch Irish Ballads that were an integral part of mountain music and playing the Dulcimer - http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/ballads/early_child/

Wonderful memories from the years I lived in Lexington and was a part of the project taking Senior Girl Scouts along with some Students from Barea Collage into the mountains where communities were found and where the collage students winterized the log structure used for school while the rest of us inoculate the children and taught history to the adults.  This was back in the 60s - as roads were being built whole communities, still speaking Elizabethan English were found. After the Whiskey tax they had no way to get the corn down those mountains to the rivers to sell where as, before they made it into whiskey that could be brought down by mule and economically transported - after the tax closed off trade they ended up becoming self-sufficient isolated communities.

Amazing to see some of the young ones that we would bring with us to pick up supplies at Morehead Collage and for an hour or more while we were there they would turn on and off a light switch that they had never seen or one boy opened and closed a door that he never saw hinges other than leather straps. And then getting water from a faucet was magic. Some of these communities did have electricity but no light switches and some even had one TV - because of seeing movies on that community TV they assumed all the Native American Indians were dead since that was what they saw on the movies.

I learned about the wonders of Sassafras and Golden Seal that grew wild and where to get wild honey and the group sings were wonderful to hear with that plaintiff sound of the string instruments tuned to the modes rather than the scales we use today.

Interesting, except for the monks during the Holy Day Festival we do not hear much about everyday folks singing in Kristin's story do we. Come to think of it I do not know of any collection of old Norse songs - you would think at least there would be work songs used to keep a group rhythm raising a sail or cutting a log.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #311 on: May 18, 2015, 08:45:38 PM »
Interesting point about the Norse songs.  I don't know of any either.  In Kristin so far, we have seen one ballad, the one about Ivar Herr Johnsøn, that people danced to, and when people dance it seems to be to ballads.  I wonder what kind of dancing they do.

One of the sources I found says that Undset incorporates six different ballad forms into her narrative.  Anyone who spots one, please tell us.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #312 on: May 18, 2015, 09:43:06 PM »
Pat from the Child's web site this explanation of Ballads seems to work for the way the book is written

The emphasis is on action and dialogue, not description or characterization

Ballads tend to cut to the heart of a story: This is what happened. This is who was there. This is what they did. This is what they said. Often the entire story is pared down to a dialogue, as in "Lord Randall"

Ballads tend to be characterized by impersonality on the part of the singer: The narrator is not personally touched by story, is not taking sides, and typically sings without much dramatization. When a judgment is to be voiced, it comes from within the tale. Consider "Barbara Allen" (Child #84): She rejects him. He dies of a broken heart. She dies of a broken heart. The singer isn't about to exclaim "How could she!"
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #313 on: May 19, 2015, 03:23:41 AM »
tra la found something about old Norse music

"When Christianity came to Norway at the end of the l0th Century, the universal Catholic Church had long since laid down the rules for singing at religious services. Only in connection with the veneration of saints was there room for national contributions to the Gregorian choral tradition, and only here was it possible for Norwegian-composed sequences and other liturgical music to find their place. Best known is the sequence Lux illuxit, which was used during the recent St. Olav celebrations at Nidaros Cathedral, The sequence Predicasti Dei care was used at weekly Wednesday masses, held on the day on which St. Olav was martyred in 1030.

During the first half of the 14th Century, some Norwegian churches acquired organs and the statue of the lyre player in Nidaros Cathedral in Trondheim shows that many other instruments were used in Church services. Norwegian theology students, who were trained in Paris at that time, introduced polyphony from the Notre Dame School and other impulses from European music. Norway had long had close ties with England, and historical sources show that the cultured classes in Europe's northernmost archbishopric were satisfied with only the best quality."


During this time of the Mary Cult the Ladymass was written - most are Anonymous however, Hildegarde Bingen did write one Ladymass  - there is a nice collection of chants and polyphony about Mary and the Child called The Lily and The Lamb - this is when music went from repetitive psalm  - the psalm verses were to be sung in tone with a short repetitive phrase, like "He will call upon me, and I will hear him" is said between each verse - back and forth - Then we have chant and still a bit later music advances to polyphony - singing Chant meant there was a background almost drone sound and one voice sang, even if that one voice was several singers there was no harmony only a single clear voice - where as, polyphony combined not only a number of part but also each voice had an individual melody and they harmonized with each other.

Here is a trio of women who sing from a Ladymass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E44z3vgd_lY

Oh and here is a treat - found the Song of Roland that became a piece of music soon after it was written in France about the French Knight Roland and it was sung in Norway sometime in the 12th century - perfect to hear the chant - the drum is the drone and listen the voices are all singing the same tune without voices singing individually - oh this is so perfect to hear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=414mrPgK5Yk

And this wonderment again, in chant with the drone only being some of the breakaway voices that all sing in unison - but oh my oh my oh my you gotta listen - known in the 12th century in England - do not know if this one reached Norway or not but oh just listen to the Song of Angles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kLu4_skcL0

Ok now this piece is called a Viking folk Song - the music confuses me though - the Viking period in History was earlier than the 14th century and music had not developed yet to be as musical as we are used to hearing today - the instrument does include a tapping drone - but it sounds too much to me more like 15th century folk music - maybe it is and since it was Norwegian it was simply labeled as a Viking tune - something is not adding up here but then it is my ear and I have not found anything to give us dates - their costume is right for an earlier century - if anyone finds anything that can date this please let us know - it is a lively tune befitting the song of villages or even seafaring men however, if it is 15th century than our Kristin and Erlend would not have heard such music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAO7_GryWTM

Now this piece starts out sounding like it could be an early ballad - the more monotone song with the drone suggests it is an early piece but then it just gets too musical - so again, I am thinking it was probably a ballad that grew the story and this version that sounds too much like 15th century was a later version - it is about the battle of Stanford Bru which took place in England and has historically marked the end of the Viking era. Seems the Vikings came ashore leaving their arms behind and were set upon by King Harold Godwinson and his army in 1066. If nothing else the woodblock prints are great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YzEA_uQBg4

And this I am sure is a modern piece done after the ancient music but the scenery in Norway is just exquisite and is closer to our idea of what Kristin and Erlend must have seen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUH7CqJcaM0




 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #314 on: May 19, 2015, 03:14:36 PM »
Thanks for all the musical treats, Barb.  I particularly like the Song of Roland.  I have to laugh at those noble, heroic pictures of Roland blowing his horn Oliphant, though.  Roland's troops were the rearguard, and the reason they were so badly slaughtered was because, when they were ambushed, he was too pigheaded to blow his horn to call back the rest of the army until it was too late.

PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #315 on: May 19, 2015, 03:29:05 PM »
I can understand why Kristin doesn't tell Erlend she's pregnant before the wedding; she doesn't want to put a damper on the festivities he's been looking forward to.  But why doesn't she tell him once they reach Husaby?

And what about Erlend?  Does he still love her?  It's evident that he is hoping to repair his reputation by marrying respectably, to a good woman.  How much of a factor is that?

Bellamarie, I agree with you that Kristin has a rocky road ahead of her.

bellamarie

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #316 on: May 19, 2015, 05:29:27 PM »
I never really understood why Kristin did not tell Erlend she was pregnant as weeks went by, after the were married  Erlend's reaction when he discovers Kristin is pregnant was so hurtful.  He refused to speak to her.  He worried about his reputation being ruined all over again.  Then he pretty much tells her, his son by Eline will come first with him. 

He does not act like a man in love, even towns folk are gossiping about how he trearts Kristin, and seems tired of his marriage already.  Just as Eline tried to warn Kristin, he will tire of you as well. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #317 on: May 21, 2015, 05:03:43 AM »
OK I think I found a key that we have been missing - it reminds me of the saying, "You thought you were in the game to win and you were not even in the same game."

This is a BBC documentary about Viking Sagas - the Sagas were earlier stories written down during the 13th and 14th centuries - there is much about these Sagas that is the stuff of Sigrid Undset

The documentary is just shy of an hour long and filled with much information that can help us make sense of all of this rather than seeing behavior that seems outrageous - and we learn listening to these professionals in this documentary that as we have a saying about death and taxes - the Sagas are about sex and death.

We know Sigrid Undset was patterning her story after the old folks stories and so we have a story filled with sex and death - now I can go back and laugh at all the rigamarole Erlend was involved with children, no marriage, wanting marriage with Kristin, jealousy, sex with Kristin and god knows how many others - instead of describing a chess match of paying taxes it is a chess game of sex and it seems check mate is often death.

Another point - We have agreed the story pulls us in and that is evidently typical of the Sagas written about real people, including the names of accurate historical people - it seems in these northern countries, with 7 to 9 months of winter, storytelling was an important development - stories that include magic. Magic was thought as real which the documentary points out we cannot understand today and the words themselves said in the right order can give the speaker more power, making things happen.

We know Kristin is living at a time when the old ways still had a hold on the people although, they were Christian and that is evidently a key -

First of all the documentary points out it was Christians who defined the old religion or ways as Pagan - for the people it was the only religion they knew and instead of like in Europe where there is good and bad and good things happen to good people with bad things happening to those whose behavior is bad - well - not true for these northern lands. Basic to the Sagas and to the old ways the one who is the biggest ahum, using their language here - the biggest asshole has success with it.

Now if that doesn't sound familiar I do not know...

More highlights showing us we were not in the same game - During the time of the old ways revenge was the engine of crisis that would then continue for generations and - get this- it was these strong women who pushed the violence between the men - one would humiliate the other that led to a violent killing that had to be avenged by the other on down the generations with each act of blood violence breaking the most sacred bonds of family and friends - there seems to be no end and tra la... I was thinking of you Bellamarie - a break comes into the generational revenge cycle with the entrance of the Christians who are given credit for bringing peace and forgivingness, calming the violent vengeance.  

I think we see this back and forth between the Christian element and Lady Aashild, who with her 'words' suggest that Kristin has more suffering ahead of her and her potions and herbs appear to be an expression of the old ways. This is one of the conflicts in our story - a time that has one foot in Christianity and the other is still in the old ways.

Watch it and see what tidbit you find - if nothing else, the documentary about the Sagas gives us more insight to better understand the life experience of Kristin and Erlend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taVsvYWp1UU
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #318 on: May 21, 2015, 09:29:33 AM »
Barb:
Quote
there is much about these Sagas that is the stuff of Sigrid Undset
Aha, Barb, you see it.  It's there in the story, it's there in the style, and it's there in the characters.  When I started reading Nunnally, It felt like I was reading a saga, the styles were so similar.  Now I don't feel it so much, Undset's own voice has taken over in my mind, but it's still there.  You don't see the style so much in Archer, but the feel is still there.

Undset has added a lot to the saga-style, which is a pretty bare-bones way of telling a story: the descriptions of the scenery, the times she goes into a character's head and lets you see what they're thinking and feeling.  Many of her characters have the same Scandinavian style of not expressing their feelings, except maybe every ten years or so.  Ragnhild doesn't confess to Lavrans that she wasn't a virgin until they have been married for twenty seven years, and they don't discuss it again for years more.

I'll have to fit your BBC video in in little bits during the day.

bellamarie

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Re: Kristin Lavransdatter
« Reply #319 on: May 21, 2015, 11:23:16 AM »
Barb,  Thank you for the wonderful link.  I learned quite a bit watching this video.  I loved the scenery, the setting makes me feel so much more into our very own story.  I am just marveling at the way our author Undset, has taken from Norse literature, and written Kristin Lavransdatter. She has given the reader so very much valuable insight not only into the sagas of their eras, but also the pagan and Christian beliefs. I truly feel enriched as a person just reading and learning about Norway, their culture, paganism, and religious conversion, not to mention the drama, romance and revenge.  As the video states, "The characters in family sagas are easy to identify with their feelings, failings, fears and hopes."

In this video of this particular saga, we see where Christianity was able to bring about peace and forgiveness, to put a stop to the generational feuding, which often ended in killing your own friend, and family member.

I wonder if our Kristin, will be like  Guðrún in the Laxdaela saga, and end up joining a convent in the end, or becoming a monk.  It seems she is searching for a forgiveness and peace, that only she will find through repentance, redemption and reconciliation with God.

PatH.,  
Quote
When I started reading Nunnally, It felt like I was reading a saga, the styles were so similar.  Now I don't feel it so much, Undset's own voice has taken over in my mind, but it's still there.  You don't see the style so much in Archer, but the feel is still there.

Nunnally's writing style compared to Archer for me, is far more like the author of this saga Laxdaela, which is an unknown.  Although, I did find this:

Since the saga has often been regarded as an unusually feminine saga, it has been speculated that it was composed by a woman.[1] The extensive knowledge the author shows of locations and conditions in the Breiðafjörður area show that the author must have lived in Western Iceland.[2] Internal evidence shows that the saga must have been composed sometime in the period 1230-1260.[3]

On several occasions, Laxdæla saga explicitly cites what appear to be written sources. It twice refers to the writings of Ari Þorgilsson, once to a lost Þorgils saga Höllusonar and once to a Njarðvíkinga saga, perhaps an alternative name for Gunnars þáttr Þiðrandabana.[4] The author was also likely familiar with a number of other written historical sources .[5] Nevertheless the main sources of the author must have been oral traditions, which he or she fleshed out and shaped according to his or her tastes.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laxd%C3%A6la_saga#Authorship_and_sources

I found this from National Catholic Register:***   WARNING  ****  I did not read any further in this article due to possible spoilers, but wanted to share their feelings of the language.

That's the first marvel of this trilogy, written in the 1920's and set in Catholic medieval Norway:  the incredibly fluid and evocative language.  I'm reading the translation by Charles Archer and J. S. Scott, which preserves enough of the formal language of medieval times to give it flavor, without obscuring the meaning or tone of the narrative.  (I haven't read the 2005 Nunnally translation, which is said to be more concise.)  I suppose Norwegian is a language similar enough to English that at least some phrases must have translated easily, but that doesn't fully explain the miraculously felicitous language.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/simcha-fisher/i-cant-believe-you-havent-read-kristin-lavransdatter/#ixzz3amo7SDqU

PatH., If it is okay, I would like to finish the next 3 chapters of this section.  I am going to be very busy this weekend with my grandkids spending the night, and basketball tournaments out of town, so I will try to check in when I get a free second.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden