Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online

[bellamarie]

The Book Club Online is the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

April Book Club Online

Hidden Figures

by Margot Lee Shetterly

Their work was crucial to the Space Program, but nobody knew their names.  Join us as we learn the true story of these Black women mathematicians.

Schedule:

Apr. 1-7      Prologue, Chapters 1-6
Apr. 8-14    Chapters 7-12
Apr. 15-21  Chapters 13-18
Apr. 22-28  Chapters 19-23, epilogue

Discussion Leaders: PatH and Annie

JoanK.,  Good for you for not only speaking up and pointing out you were the only one with the Math degree, but good for you for leaving that job.

Frybabe,  What book are you reading that is is happening on the West Coast gang?

I have to tell you the movie started out nothing at all like this book. 

[Frybabe]

I am reading The Rise of the Rocket Girls: The Women Who Propelled Us, from Missiles to the Moon to Mars.  I expect that at some point my book will converge with yours since JPL became part of NASA in1958. Rocket Girls begins, not at Langley, but at CalTech as a research project that eventually became JPL. Here is a review in Smithsonian: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/nasas-rocket-girls-are-no-longer-forgotten-history-180958791/

Both books were published in 2016, Rocket Girls in April of that year and Hidden Figures in September.  Funny how books with similar or the same subject matter get published about the same time but through different publishing houses. Rocket Girls focuses on all the women, not just the black women.

Johnathan, is the book you read Rocket Men: The Epic Story of the First Men on the Moon by Craig Nelson? I am putting it on my library wish list.

[PatH]

At the moment, where we are in the book, we haven't even touched rockets.  The Black women are still making our WWII fighting planes the best in the world by refining their shapes with calculations and eliminating drag.

[bellamarie]

Path.,

We see Dorothy making a number of important life decisions.  How were her options different from those of a white woman?  From a man? From someone living now?  Would you have made the same decisions?

The first chapters of our book is introducing Dorothy, and Katherine and their entry into NASA.  I am shocked that Dorothy took a position that would take her away from her home and children for such a long length of time, but back then I understand how if you were going to have any type of job making double your income and getting to use your talents for such an esteem project you couldn't refuse.  Dorothy knew this was a chance of a lifetime and would give her the opportunity to make money for her children's future.

A quote from this article:  https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2734898/meet-the-black-women-behind-oscar-nominated-hidden-figures-who-put-white-men-on-the-moon-but-couldnt-eat-in-the-same-canteen/

Ann said: “The salary was double what she earned as a teacher but the hours were long — she often worked 24-hour shifts.

“So us six kids stayed with our grandmother for the next nine months while she worked 130 miles away and lived in a boarding house. When the job became permanent she moved us.”

 

[mabel1015j]

To keep adding to the list of women computers, the Army was spending way too much time during WWII trying to figure out the trajectory of the many new weapons they were developing. Women mathematicians had been hired to do the job manually as men were serving in the military. So a group of those women were asked to configure and program the ENIAC, a room-sized computer at the U of Pa. they had some diagrams, but little else to show them how to do those jobs.

I remember reading of one women's account of their crawling around the floor (in dresses and hose) to try to figure out how to put it together and then trying to figure out which vacuum tube had blown when it stopped working. (Like trying to figure out which bulb had blown in the old string if Christmas tree lights.)

I talk about them in my presentation on women scientists.

http://www.witi.com/center/witimuseum/halloffame/298369/ENIAC-Programmers-Kathleen-McNulty,-Mauchly-Antonelli,-Jean-Jennings-Bartik,-Frances-Synder-Holber-Marlyn-Wescoff-Meltzer,-Frances-Bilas-Spence-and-Ruth-Lichterman-Teitelbaum/

Jean

[bellamarie]

Jean, as we learn Dorothy was concerned about her job and the the thirty other black women that were computers manually losing their jobs once she heard the huge IBM was coming in.  She was smart enough to know to go to the library and teach herself, and the women, so they would be ready to transition into the positions that would be needed once the IBM was up and running. 

Can you imagine how many pairs of nylons those women went through? 

[PatH]

Nylons were almost impossible to get; all the nylon went for parachutes.  there were some rayon stockings, and women resorted to such devices as putting tan makeup on their legs and drawing the stocking seam down the back with eyebrow pencil.  It was a real tragedy to get a run.

[JoanK]

Later, I escaped SOME of that. The fifties was a time of conformity, when men  were expected to wear dress shirts and ties, women dresses and stockings. But a free-wheeling culture developed among the programmers, probably similar to that in Silicon Valley later: we were free spirits and above such things. For men, that meant no ties, for me, no stockings

[JoanK]

Women who took their careers seriously all at some time had to face choices like Dorothy between career and family. my daughter is still facing those choices today.

[Jonathan]

'"Where was I when all this was going on?"  The movie Hidden Figures opened my eyes even wider and I have taught history for many years.  I am sure the book will tell me even more.'

Quoting Mkaren, and I do believe she has seen the vast scope of the  social and scientific changes and developments dealt with in the book. Wasn't a lot of history made in those years! The posts following hers bear that out. Computing technology, space adventures, civil rights, desegregation, equal rights for everyone. There certainly were many tough choices for women of course. And I'm very proud of my wife, my daughter and two grandaughters, all of whom did or are pursuing professional careers. I'm mired in my tax return  and am blessed to have a corporate accountant in the family.

I suppose as a Canadian I see some of the history from a different angle. aware that for some, many years ago, Canada was seen as the Glory Land. Our sympathies were certainly with those seeking  equal rights and equal opportunities, but feeling denied.

With that in mind, I would like to share a story. It was in the sixties. As a family we were driving south to Cape Hatteras, our favorite ocean beach. It was hot. Time for an ice cream the kids suggested. The large black community was so evident. So it was not surprising that the roadside stand was run by blacks. Let's have a double-decker...chocolate and vanilla. We got them with a wink...with the chocolate on top. We wished him a good day and left with a chuckle.

Yes, Frybabe, Rocket Men is by Craig Nelson.

[PatH]

Women who took their careers seriously all at some time had to face choices like Dorothy between career and family. my daughter is still facing those choices today.

This choice was made easier for Dorothy by the fact that her children were already being cared for by their grandparents while she worked as a schoolteacher.  They were in a close-knit community, with loving aunts and uncles, and caring neighbors who formed a safe and comfortable environment.  So although it must have really hurt to be separated from her children, she knew they were safe, loved and taken care of.

Earlier, she had been faced with the decision not to get a math degree at Howard, but instead got a teaching degree.  It was the Depression, nobody was sure of having a job, and teaching was the best way to have an income to help out.

[bellamarie]

Johnathan That is such a cute story!    

PatH., Yes, Dorothy was blessed to have the grandparents to be there for the grandchildren.  When my first grandchild was born my son was eighteen just graduated high school.  He and my daughter in law the mother was not even dating anymore, and she was only seventeen still in high school.  I decided to leave my computer teaching job at the school and begin my in home day care so I could care for my grand daughter for free.  I knew if these two had a chance at being successful they would need a stable loving place for the baby.  I did all six of my grandchildren over sixteen years so my daughter in laws could pursue their careers. 

Would Dorothy have been able to make that choice without those grandparents? 

[mabel1015j]

I have said on more than one ocassion that the toughest thing about having young children and having a job was finding child care. In the late 70s there was not yet a day care center in every town and we were not living near family. Women in the neighborhood, wanting to earn some money were the first option, butour first sitter, who was very good and responsible, decided after the first year that she was going to work outside her home, and so on, and so on. We did find a very good program for our son when he was three, and his nephew, our first grandson went to the same daycare 25 yrs later. I didn't have to make a choice between working outside the home and staying with our children, but there were some tough days.

Jean

[bellamarie]

I'm enjoying learning the history of the civil rights and all in the first six chapters, but I do feel it's a bit repetitive.  The movie touched on the different racial inequalities but it did not cover as much as the book.  I wonder why the producers and writers decided to eliminate most of it?  Do you think it would have been too much of a hot button today considering Black Lives Matters and all the violent protests we have had in the past few years?  It makes me wonder, because six chapters into this book and it's more on race than on NASA.  The movie definitely was more about NASA.  I remember reading the book The Help finishing it the night before going to see the movie.  Again, the movie eliminated almost all of the racial issues and abuse that took place in the book and actually turned it more into a comedy.  I was very disappointed in the movie version, where as with this book I am finding I enjoyed the movie version.

[jane]

Ann..do you have a word processing program or Notetab or Notepad on your device?

 If so, write your post on that and save it. 

If you don't, write your post in an email and email it to yourself.

 Write out the whole post, of course.  What you sent me was just the link back here.

[ANNIE]

Jane, I have saved it to my email and will repost it (with your help, no doubt). I also have removed g it from the posts that are going on nocew.  I also removed the question I asked you.  Now I will read your directions for saving it for a later date. Thanks a bunch!😘😘

Here is a very interesting article about Mary Jackson. Another computer but one who went farther.

https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/mary-jackson-at-nasa-langley

JANE!!! Is there anyway I can recover or SM can recover those deleted posts that I have now lost. When I deleted them on SL Post they disappeared  from my existing email page also.

[bellamarie]

I think we will meet Mary Jackson in the coming chapters.  In the movie Katherine, Dorothy and Mary were the women of focus with the NASA program in getting Glenn in space.  This article you posted left out how in order for Mary to become an engineer she had to first go to the court and petition to be allowed to attend the all white school night classes.  It was a very moving part of the movie and I'm hoping we see it in the book.

[ANNIE]

Here's a story that JoanK will identify with :

http://www.popsci.com/planets-and-prejudice?dom=editorspicks&src=syn&google_editors_picks=true

[JoanK]

BELLAMARIE: good for you, taking care of your grandchildren. t just goes to show (to rephrase an old saying) "behind every woman is a good women."

Yes, I do indeed relate to that story. But what a thrill, hearing Jupiter!

[JoanK]

The first six chapters are very vague about what the "computers" were actually doing. PatH and I are guessing that the author doesn't have a technical background.

'm guessing they are doing what I did before the place got a computer: that is acting as a human computer. my memories are vague (I only did it for a few months, before I changed to computer programming. But I was given a calculator and a spreadsheet, with data, and a series of steps to feed into the calculator. The calculator was programmable, but lacked the essential feature that would have made it a computer: the ability to make decisions and modify what it was doing based on the data or the results of it's previous calculation. So every time a decision point was reached,  it would give me the output, and I would tell it what the next step was.

[bellamarie]

JoanK.,  How you explained what you thought their job was is exactly what I understood it to be in the movie.  The girls sat at desks with little machines much like calculators punching in numbers they were given.  Dorothy had a good insight to go to the library and get a book on programming computers once she got knowledge the huge IBM machine was in the building.  Luckily for the rest of the women, she prepared them by teaching them, once she taught herself, so they were ready to switch jobs when needed.

Are we ready to move on to the next chapters?

[ANNIE]

Chap 5 & 6 brought back memories of being given a tour of the Ames Aeronautical Lab at Moffat and walked the entire length of their wind tunnel.  Very impressive! 

Having graduated from Purdue U. as an Aeronautical Engineer, my husband spent his entire career designing control systems for many different airplanes, even a helicopter. To test those planes, he and his crews, would go to Pax River and Ames Lab and spend long hours and days testing their newest planes.  When a company wants to do serious and complete testing they  send the test crew, mechanics, engineer and a test pilot. Its a big deal!   

He was also a pilot, small planes.

[PatH]

He was also a pilot, small planes.

I bet that was useful to him in the testing.  He would have the right mindset to know what was important from the pilot's point of view..

[PatH]

Are we ready to move on to the next chapters?

The schedule says we're moving on Saturday anyway.  No reason why anyone who's read on can't move on now.  Chapters 7-12.

[bellamarie]

Sorry PatH.,  I missed checking on the schedule, I didn't realize it was posted.  I'll read the next chapters and hold off commenting on them til Saturday. 

[ANNIE]

Surprise of the nicest kind happened today! My granddaughter and her three kids came down from Ann Arbor, Michigan for an overnight!! So I will not be here until evening tomorrow!! Makes me feel so thrilled and loved!! Ages-11, 9 and 1!! 🤓❤❤

[bellamarie]

Oh Annie there is nothing more fun than a surprise visit from your loved ones.  Enjoy every second with them.

[PatH]

Annie, you deserve every speck of love they're giving you.

[PatH]

A lot of changes happen in chapters 7-12.

We focus on some new people, including Katherine Goble (just glimpsed before) and Mary Jackson.  What are they like? Are they different from those we’ve already met?

The work focus changes, some during the war, and much more afterward, as new aeronautical issues come to the fore.  Do you remember the fuss over breaking the sound barrier?  How do the changing needs of the research affect the organizational structure, and what does this do for the women’s chances for advancement?

There are social and political changes; how do they affect the women’s work?

[bellamarie]

Oh dear it seems we are not getting very many people posting for this book.  I have been a bit busy getting things prepared for Easter Sunday, I still make Easter baskets for all six of my grandchildren ages 21, 15, 14, 12, 8, 6 yrs old.  I do the Easter dinner and egg hunt at my house so needless to say it requires much shopping.  I always do my Spring cleaning with getting carpets done this week so I decided to check in while waiting on  Stanley Steemer to arrive.  I do hope we can give a little more attention to this book after the holiday, seems a shame it is not drawing more posts considering what important events are taking place.

In chapter 7 Dorothy has rented herself an apartment and has brought her four children and the babysitter to live in Newport News with her.  After V-J Day August 15, 1945 layoffs began and women returned to their homemaking.

Chapter 8 Katherine Goble comes on the scene a mathematical whiz.  In 1940 Katherine was hand picked one of three to desegregate West Virginia University, the other two were men. 

Chapter 9 In 1946 the army decided to make Langley Field the headquarters of its Tactical Air Command, one of the major commands of the US Army Air Corps.  One year later the importance of the airplane to US defense was underscored when the Army Air Corps was elevated to the status of an independent branch of the military: the United States Air Force.  Dorothy was made a permanent Civil Service employee.  In 1949 Dorothy was appointed acting head of West Computing.  In 1951 Dorothy was given the position a head of that unit.

In the movie is showed how disappointed Dorothy was having to be acting head of all the girls in the West Unit but not be given the title or pay.  I am surprised I am up to chapter 10 and still very little mention of Katherine when in the movie was was more of a major character than Dorothy.

[PatH]

I think Katherine will become more and more prominent as the book progresses.

Not only is Sunday Easter, but the income tax is due Tuesday.  And I think JoanK has a fair bit of family stuff going on.

[bellamarie]

I'm noticing the book has spent much time about the race issues and how it progresses or in some ways does not progress.  Now that the war is over we seem to be getting more into the aerodynamics part of the story where NASA should become the focus.  Katherine played a large part in John Glen's orbit into space, if the movie stayed true to the book then it was her calculations Glen trusted over the men.

[PatH]

I'm traveling this morning. See you later in the day.

[bellamarie]

Safe travels Path.   I went to my grand daughter's class acting out the Stations of the Cross today and am heading back to church tonight for the Washing of the Feet celebration for Holy Thursday.  The Triduum marks the end of the Lenten Season and the beginning of the Easter Season.  Everyone have a Happy Easter!

[PatH]

I'm noticing the book has spent much time about the race issues and how it progresses or in some ways does not progress. 

Yes, Bellamarie, it certainly was a central fact around which they all had to arrange their lives.  The women really show their class inn how they deal.  Look at Katherine,when she first arrives at 1244, and the engineer walks away as soon as she sits down.  She knows that, whatever his motives, the best way to make things work is to keep it sweet, so she does.  And whatever his motives had been, they soon became good friends.

[PatH]

Bellamarie, it'been just the two of us for a week, so we can arrange things to suit ourselves.  How would you like to play it?  Shall we take a break until Monday, and then start on the third section?  The Easter flurry will be over, and on Tuesday everyone will turn in their taxes, so maybe things will pick up.  As you point out, the book seems to be starting in on the heart of the story now.

[PatH]

I'm finding this a very interesting book to read, but a very hard one to discuss.  It's such a mass of details, and although they fit together into a story, I'm having trouble pulling coherent themes out if it.

It doesn't help that I'm in Portland trying to settle what to do about a rental apartment that might or might not work out.

[bellamarie]

Yes, PatH., I am fine with setting the pace what ever way you want to.  Monday is a good day to begin the next section.  I am so glad to hear you are finding this book difficult to discuss because I thought it was just me.  As you stated there are way too many details to even try to fit together a story.  I am so glad I saw the movie first because it grabbed my attention immediately and kept it throughout the entire movie.  This book has not done that what so ever.  I can't even get a feel for the characters because they have bundled way too many themes into the story.  Good luck with all your business in Portland.  I hope it all goes the way you want it to.

Happy Easter!!!

[mabel1015j]

I'm not reading the book, i'm still on the list at the library, but I'm enjoying lurking and reading your comments.
I'm sure many women can identify with the offensive actions of people around us who have thought "we", whoever "we" are,  didn't "belong", wherever it might have been. It is probably especially true for women over 60, probably not as bad as these women had to deal with, but it may now be more subtle.
When I worked for Dept of Army, there were three times, once I had some authority, that men told me I was "intimidating", "not going to change my mind," "too strong." (I have a voice that is lower in tenor and strong, which has served me well as a teacher or presenter) Two of these men had just met me, the third was very frightened of authority and my position and work were backed by the chief-of-staff. Fortunately in the first two cases, people who I had worked with and knew me spoke up to say "I don't think anybody here is intimidated by Jean Perry, " and a young woman captain said "jean did just what we as officers are trained to, to be assertive and be confident, not aggressive."
The subtle message, of course, was we don't like women being so sure of themselves/being in control/having authority. I worked very hard at walking the line between those behaviors and being a person people wanted to work with/for. Most of the people I worked with were accepting of my authority/program, but a couple of men not being o k with me could be a hindrance.

It sounds like those women at NASA had to work even harder to get respect for what they knew and were capable of.

Jean

[ANNIE]

Here's another story about a woman in science during the time of our book that I read in The Week

http://news.mit.edu/2017/institute-professor-emerita-mildred-dresselhaus-dies-86-0221
 
Just retuned from Indianapolis where we welcomed two new members (9 & 7 yrs old) into our church.  Very long and beautiful mass-8 to 11:30pm on Saturday night.  Then yesterday we visited with the family for a few hours and gave the children their welcome gifts. There were 11 new members welcomed.

So I am just now starting our new chapters so will try to comment later today.

Hope you all had a nice Easter.