Winter Garden ~ Kristin Hannah ~ Prediscussion is open!

[BarbStAubrey]

WELCOME EVERYONE! Please, join our Discussion of Winter Garden by Kristin Hannah The story of a Family  learning and connecting to its history and to each other.

Discussion Dates

Prologue 1972 - Chapter 6...April 30-May 3 Chapter 7 - Chapter 13...May 4-May10 Chapter 14 - Chapter 20...May 11-May17 Chapter 21 - Epilogue 2010...May 18-May24

Discussion Leader: Barb

[Frybabe]

Good morning all!

The opening paragraph of the prologue is powerful, IMO. It set a scene and mood, immediately, for a frozen, winter world. Like Barb's picture of the winter orchard, with its bright red apples still clinging to the trees, the rest of the prologue paints a picture of a few bright spots (the children and their play, perhaps Dad trying to make up for Mom), trying bravely to cheer and thaw the frozen heart of the household (Mom).

I looked up Anna Akhmatova (1889-1966), whose poems are before and after the prologue.  I had never heard of her. She was short listed for a Nobel Prize in 1965 and is considered one of the greatest Russian poets of the 20th century. I can see why Hannah chose her poetry for her book. Poetry Hunter has a selection of her poetry which is translated into English. https://www.poemhunter.com/anna-akhmatova/poems/

[BarbStAubrey]

I need to find it Frybabe - but we did a month of her work back when Anna was still with us and for over a year, maybe two years we were doing a poet a month. Anna knew of her work - I did not - I will try to find it again - we did not do a separate discussion for each month so the month of sharing the work of Anna Akhmatova will be buried amid the thousands of posts that are and were part of the Poetry discussion.

Yep Frybabe, agree, the opening lines of both poetry and the prologue are so perfect for the story that follows. The line in the first paragraph of the prologue that captures for me so much is, "Everything froze, turned fragile." All three women freeze their show of emotion and turn fragile.

They all three pour so much of themselves into their work and the result is they create wonders - Nina with her telling photographs and Meredith successfully running the business and Mom having created a beautiful Russian style home and a garden with not only her frozen emotions but without the ability to see color.

I know well having a mother whose emotions are frozen and at times seems confused - from the time I was quite young I took care of some of the important jobs - both because I knew they needed doing but also, trying like Meredith appears to be doing, feeling your own value is tied to how well you can take care of your mother's jobs - it is how in my family, among all the cousins I was labeled the 'responsible one'.

[bellamarie]

Oh Jonathan, I loved your romantic message in the stars.  You must share with us how you were able to line them up to spell out "I Love you." 

So today we begin this story of a family battered and broken...... I can't imagine living in a home where the mother is so rigid, unfeeling, and secluded.  It does indeed give me "shivers" reading how she refuses to have an emotional attachment to her two daughters, who so desperately vie for her love and affection.  The father is the backbone of this family, he must get exhausted juggling the happiness of his wife and his two daughters.

pg. 9  She knew what would happen:  Dad would calm Mom down and then he'd come up to their room and make them laugh and hold them in his big, strong arms and tell them that Mom really loved them.  By the time he was done with the jokes and the stories, Meredith would want desperately to believe it.

Growing up, my mother was never affectionate to me or my six siblings.  We never heard the words, I love you.  We never got hugs, stories read to us, good night kisses, or good-bye hugs, but, the one thing I can say for certain, I never doubted her love for each and every one of us. 

pg. 20  And there she was: her eighty-something-year-old mother, bundled up in blankets, sitting on the black bench in her so-called winder garden. 

As a child it had scared Meredith__all that solitude in her mother__but as she got older it had begun to embarrass, then irritate her.  A woman of her mother's age had no business sitting alone in the cold.  Her mother claimed it was because of her ruined vision, but Meredith didn't believe that.  It was true that her mother's eyes didn't process color__she saw only white and black and shades of gray__but that had never struck Meredith, even as a girl, as a reason for staring at nothing.

This Russian mother who loves solitude, and made up fairy tales is an enigma to me.  She obviously has gone through tremendous pain in her life.

And what about the other sister Nina, she copes with NOT coping with life, by going off far away taking photographs of war torn countries and impoverished, wounded people.  She much like her mother seems to be avoiding the pain, in her own type of solitude. 

[PatH]

Barb is having electrical problems, and might not be able to get in for a while.

Yes, Frybabe, the opening is stunning.  And it leads up to two really intense chapters.  (I've only read through chapter two; when I got my library book, it was saturated with perfume, to which I'm allergic, so I let it rest a few days.  That often helps, but didn't this time, so I'm keeping it inside a plastic bag to read.)  She really can paint word pictures.  Another good one--the Himba woman, covered in ochre dust.

[PatH]

Bellamarie, you point out so well the difference between lack of demonstrative behavior and lack of love.  And look at the cost of no love.

Nina, when she learns of her father's heart attack, doesn't want Danny to come with her: "She didn't know how to respond to that, what to say.  Relying on people for comfort had never felt natural to her,  The last thing she wanted was to give someone the power to hurt her.  Self-preservation was the one thing she'd lerned from her mother."

Brrr.

[Jonathan]

'It does indeed give me "shivers" reading how she refuses to have an emotional attachment to her two daughters, who so desperately vie for her love and affection....'  What do you think, Bellamarie? Is mother too busy living with her shadow as described  in Anna Akhmatova's beautiful lines: 'We don't know how to say goodbye. You're moody. I am your shadow.'

What a prologue! Beginning with 'this icy season when every breath becomes visible', and ending with a vision of their mother's 'white, white hair

Akhmatova's great. I belleve the author could also have started with a line from Tolstoy: 'All happy families resemble one another, each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.' Anna Karenina

We've begun a wonderful journey. And I've also been reminded that I was going to cook up a pot of apple sauce with that bag of McIntosh in the frig. What do you think, Barb? Were those apples being grown in Alaska started up by an apple farmer from Novgorod. Alaska after all, was Russian at one time. That part of Alaska must be warmed by a mild ocean current, no doubt.

[BarbStAubrey]

Thank you Pat - yes, first half the house than all the house without electricity since this morning - I'm back but with no answers from the city as to what happened I feel like I'm walking on Tissue paper - who knows if electricity will go out again - and I do not have an alternate device to this computer - so yes, If there are no posts I'm without electricity again - both neighbors gone for the week so no one to check in with but it does appear to be affecting the people behind me - no big storm however, rainy all day - I bet it is the squirrels - this is an older area of town before underground utilities that came along very soon after this house was built.

I'll get back to everyone later - have tons of calls to make... yes, my phone is affected - it is hooked into whatever runs the computer which is all dependent on electricity. Now that it came on it appears I have 11 calls to return - Ok till later...

Just a quickie - this story really brings into focus the conflict between self and others doesn't it - or is it trust - is it that we feel we are giving up part of our own defense to be intimate - but then the mother had an intimate relationship with the father that both girls have difficulty sharing with the men in their lives. Is it that both girls feel they could not trust another to protect their feelings and so they must be their own sole protectors.

Their mother's inability to show warmth seems to be directed to the girls - is it because as children the girls were needy for her approval and affection where as, the husband is able to give, expressing few needs?

[Frybabe]

Bellamarie, I considered your comment that Nina was avoiding pain by gallivanting all over the world to do her photo journalism. What I came up with is that she is not so much avoiding pain but transferring her pain by documenting the pain of others. But you are right, too, because she refuses to let herself get, on a personal level, emotionally close to anyone.

I have just gotten to the Himla. Did you notice how attuned she was to possible emotional entanglements on page 34? Danny's comment about his age could have been a vague attempt to test the waters for a possible closer connection with Nina. She picked up on it right away. My guess is that she is so paranoid about being emotionally close to anyone, that there is lots of room for her to misconstrue even innocent comments.

[bellamarie]

Barb, I am so sorry to hear you are having electrical problems.  I pray things get repaired and you don't experience any more outages.

Their mother's inability to show warmth seems to be directed to the girls - is it because as children the girls were needy for her approval and affection where as, the husband is able to give, expressing few needs?

I tend to think the mother's inability to show love and affection to the daughters has something more to do with how her mother may have raised her.  The husband wants the mother to share the rest of the fairy tale with the girls.  I feel what ever the rest is, will be the insight to why the mother in not able to connect with her daughters.  She promised her husband she would finally tell them on his death bed, yet she does not follow through.  He is desperate to get her to share this with the daughters before he dies.  He knows her story, he accepts her and loves her in spite of what ever her story is, this is why she is able to love him unconditionally.  The daughters do not know her story, they only know the fairy tales she has told them, and it appears the ending is the key to unlocking the mother's reason she sits in the winter garden endlessly remembering and reliving what ever it is that keeps her from feeling the freezing temps, and does not allow her to let her daughters in. 

Frybabe, Meredith and Nina have men in their lives who want to love them, and want to help them through their loss and pain, but I fear they both may lose these men, if they continue to refuse to let them into their lives to comfort and love them.   

Jonathan, applesauce sounds so comforting, while reading this book.  Yum! 

PatH., 

The last thing she wanted was to give someone the power to hurt her.  Self-preservation was the one thing she'd learned from her mother."

Sadly, this may be the one thing that also causes her to lose the man who cares so much for her.  She manages to give him her body in love making, yet she is not able to give him her trust. 

[BarbStAubrey]

I almost feel like re-reading the entire 6 chapters to find clues - so far it appears the Dad was the hub of the family holding everyone close - until the very end of his life, he loves without being needy, he has an intimate relationship with his wife, he knows and encourages his two daughters, showing his affection for each of them. The two daughters have in their minds a good, loving and caring relationship with their Dad.

Between each other the two daughters are typical sisters - they are close but also have their opinions - Meredith has something to say about Nina's cleaning ability and Meredith calls Nina on her 'running away' and yet, does not acknowledge her own 'running away' that she accomplishes through her obsessive cleaning and perfecting her ability to respond to the physical needs of the business and the family. Both girls have a good relationship with Meredith's two daughters. Both girls have men in their lives who love them and where both love their men, neither can share their pain and sorrow or even the intimate day to day living with these devoted partners. 

I thought it interestingm as Pat points out Nina does not want Danny to comfort her. It is telling that although Danny knows the pain of lose because of the deaths he witnessed and assisted in Ireland that fact was not enough to persuade Nina to share her pain of lose. Which suggests that Nina is protecting herself from more than the pain of lose. Instinctively Nina knows this loss is touching in her more than the loss of a beloved father.

And Meredith - as Jonathan sees beauty in the lines written by Anna Akhmatova - she says it perfectly in this...
Today I have so much to do:
I must kill memory once and for all,
I must turn my soul to stone,
I must learn to live again—
Unless ... Summer's ardent rustling
Is like a festival outside my window.

Which leaves us with the mother that as you, Bellamarie see as an enigma

Jonathan points out she is white - white hair, white winter garden, walls of her home painted white. She is comfortable sitting with the frozen earth - just being in the freezing wind wearing only her nightgown and yet, she appears comfortable, non apologetic for her withdrawn solitary countenance. In her sitting room a fire blazes, just as her husband warms her inner nature so that we get glimmers of a beating heart. 

And so, for the reader Kristin Hannah has her readers face 'why' - why is this women removed, or why is the relationship between her and her daughters fraught with silence and distance. What is it that the father sees and can tap into that the daughters are unable to penetrate.

Another for the readers, why are we seeing this woman as a curiosity - why are we we, like her daughters, not comfortable with her solitude - the story shows us what it is like meeting anything we fear, we instinctively flee, fight or freeze - Nina and Meredith flee, one physically hiding behind a camera and the other flees into her work with the same speed and daily distance as her morning run and Anya freezes, almost like the Snow Maiden - which makes me wonder Bellamarie if Evan loves her not so much in spite of her story but because of her story - reading this about the Snow Maiden gives another viewpoint rather than the viewpoint of the daughters that is easy for us, the readers to tap into.

http://myths.e2bn.org/mythsandlegends/origins2648-the-snow-maiden.html

So many more questions... what is it about her children that Meredith can relax hearing their voice but cannot relax and feels a sense of duty around her husband...

Why can Meredith not imagine or see a future - her father, Evan looked at the same reports and saw the dip in the Delicious Apple sales and with that he could imagine a future in Grapes where as, Meredith simply sees it as a challenge to alternative attempts in the now to cut costs. If she worked harder or cut closer their expenses as if she and she alone must make the difference. Can one thwarted play cause a life long attitude of feeling totally responsible and to avoid creative thinking.

The explanation for Anya's inability to see color, called achromatopsia, was not acquired but congenital and a gene malfunction and so why has achromatopsia not shown up in any of her offsprings or grandchildren? Are thy not her children I wonder and is that why she is distant to her daughters.

[bellamarie]

I don't see the daughters as being "needy," I see them as "needing" their mother to love them, and show affection, as any child would expect from their mother.

Barb, interesting link about the Snow Maiden...... so what will melt Anya's heart?  I feel the answer is in the ending of the fairy tale, she refuses to reveal to her daughters.

what is it about her children that Meredith can relax hearing their voice but cannot relax and feels a sense of duty around her husband...

There is NO relationship with anyone, as intimate as that of a wife and husband.  Meredith is denying herself the comfort and love she knows her husband can provide for her, I think because she so desperately wants it from her mother, since her father is no longer here to comfort her.  These two girls are feeling lost and orphaned, because the mother has shut them out, not only all their lives, but now through their grieving the one man they all so loved.

I never grew up having a father in my life, I would have cherished having a father like Evan, although he has been trying all these years to give to his two daughters, what their mother refuses to, or is incapable of giving to them.  Now that he is gone, how will the mother and two daughters manage life without the one person, who managed to keep this family together? 

When my mother died, who was the glue that held our family together, all seven of us siblings ended up distancing ourselves for years.  As experts point, and Barb reminded us, when we are faced with fear we instinctively tend to freeze, fight or flee.  Anya for what ever reasons in her past, has chosen to "freeze", the two daughters because of being rejected so many times over and over by their mother have chosen fight & flee.  Nina flees off to far away countries. Meredith chooses to fight, staying with her mother and insisting on handling everything, causing a rift in her marriage.  I see the mother's salvation is in the freezing winter garden, Meredith's is her two loving daughters, and Nina's is her camera.  What happens if, or when, either of these are taken from them?

[Frybabe]

I would think, on the surface, that since it was the Mother who was cold and unloving, and the Father who was the caring one, that the girls would have learned to shun the caring nature of other women and idealize the man as caring individuals. However, there is an undercurrent where the girls suspect that Dad is making excuses and overcompensating for Mom. So, they have learned not to trust men as well, believing that their care and love is not genuine? This is more complex than my undergrad Psychology got into.

[bellamarie]

Frybabe that is interesting...... From all I have learned through experts, the child always thrives for the parent who is less loving and attentive to them.  It's as if they need that parent's approval and love to validate their self worth.  I've been thinking about the fact the father has always over compensated for the love the mother refused to give to the daughters.  He would tell them everything would be okay, when in fact it never was.  As much as they loved their father, as you point out, they could not trust in his words. 

pg. 9  Meredith tried to feel as mature as she had this morning, but her confidence was gone.  She knew what would happen; Dad would calm Mom down and then he'd come up to their room and make them laugh and hold them in his big, strong arms and tell them that Mom really loved them.  By the time he was done with the jokes and the stories, Meredith would want desperately to believe it.  Again. 

[bellamarie]

Is Anya experiencing early on set of Alzheimer's?

pg. 84  "Hey, Mom, Meredith said, coming up to her.  "What are you doing?"  "We have these jewels.  And the butterfly is somewhere."  "Are you getting dressed up for something?"  Her mother looked up sharply.  Only then, when their gazes really met, did Meredith see the confusion in those electric-blue eyes.  "We can sell them."  "We don't need to sell your jewelry, Mom."  "They'll stop handing out money soon.  You'll see."  Meredith leaned over and gently scooped up the costume jewelry.  There was nothing of real value here:  Dad's gifts had always been more heartfelt than expensive.  "Don't worry about the bills, Mom.  I'll be paying them for you."  "You?"  Meredith nodded and helped her mother to her feet, surprised at the easy acquiescence.  Mom let herself be led up tot he stairs easily.  "Is the butterfly safe?"  Meredith nodded.  "Everything is safe, Mom," she said, helping her mother into bed.  "Thank God,"  Mom said with a sigh.  She closed her eyes.

The doctor says not to worry, grief can do that to a person her age.  I'm thinking it is not grief.  As much as I have learned about Alzheimer's, you are more able to recollect your long term memories, on the onset of dementia.  If this is so, then the daughters just may find answers to Anya's past that will help them understand her inability to love her daughters.  As much as Anya has kept these memories hidden from them, she will have no control of them surfacing if she indeed has Alzheimer's.   

[PatH]

Anya is certainly in an abnormal state, but I have a different theory about it.  The shock and strain of her grief has thrown her back into the mindset of whatever episode her earlier life turned her into the cold woman who could only love her husband, not her children.  We don't know yet what that is, but there is mention that part of the book harks back to wartime Leningrad.  Leningrad had an awful time in WWII.  It was fought over, and the Germans besieged it at length, deliberately bottling it up to starve the inhabitants.  Huge numbers starved to death, and many survivors suffered malnutrition damage.

Her behavior fits.  She's relieved to see potatoes in the garden, she hides pirogi in her pockets for later, doesn't feel she should eat every day, gathers up her jewelry because it can be sold.  Whatever it was, the new pain has thrown her back to it, or she can't bear the new grief, so she reverts to the old to hide from the new.

Poor woman, I hope she can come to some sort of peace.

[BarbStAubrey]

Hmm OK - well y'all are agreeing with my sisters - and that floors me - I just never got into it with them but all I have ever heard is they going on and on about their problems because of Mom - I thought they were, I do not know what but certainly selfish - I would just back off and let them go on and on and inside my thoughts I was shaking my head wondering why, as well as, shaking my head in annoyance - sure it would have been nice if.... but the reality was not what we wish... life is not a fairytale... having a mother who cooked well, kept us clothed, saw to it that we went to school, made our beds when we were little, birthed us for heaven's sake that is far more than many in this world experience plus this mother, as our mother were not drunks or addicted to drugs -

Our mother's are human beings - no different than we are - things happen - they, like we, do the best we can - to look at our mothers and find what was admirable makes more sense to me than gnashing over the lack of warmth we would have preferred.

I just do not see the sense in determining a black hat versus white hat - if so, there are no dynamics in life and nothing to learn. Obviously the Dad with all his support and kindness could not teach his daughters to appreciate their mother - so this mother embarrassed them and made a scene when they were young - sure it is a bad memory - but these girls are adults now and Meredith especially is still holding a grudge - she was the one who decided to retaliate by no longer listening to her mother tell the stories. How long does the mother have to be punished for acting out - her emotional button was hit and she exploded in anger - big deal - people do that and just because you are a Mom does not mean you only act in ways that benefit your children at the expense of bottling up your own rage - This women did not beat her children or punish them - she is simply distant and that is interpreted as being cold. Telling a story that describes anyone with a cold nature yes, the description would compare to what we see and have felt that as cold - but then is cold a black hat situation - there is hot and cold.

My explanation for wanting more from another just because she is a mother and we have expectations of life being as close and warm and secure as when we were in the womb is being needy.  Especially in this situation where both girls had all the warmth they wanted from their father  and so they were not adrift in life with none of their need for the expression of love shown to them - if they stopped long enough and got off their selfish stand they could acknowledge their Mom loved them only they wanted it shown in a different way - shoot that is not living in a real world.

In fact according to books I have read, expecting your children to fill a gap is just as much taking care of yourself at their expense - there is a word for it and I have forgotten but Meredith feels what she wants to feel when she talks to her girls - in a perfect world she should be calling her husband to feel settled but Meredith calls her girls. Where as her mother did not burden Meredith by calling her everytime she needed a boost - she sat in the garden instead.

OK my rant for the day

[BarbStAubrey]

Well it appears that we have two viewpoints - one from the daughter's viewpoints and the other seeing the mother from a different light - I'm wondering since this is the crux of the story without much else to really get into - if our typical plan for a few chapters a week will work for Winter Garden - so much seems tied into know the backstory on the mother maybe we need to push on and this discussion will take on a different plan - I'm thinking many of us are drawn into the story and are reading ahead anyhow - so what do you think - should we go for the next group of chapters and see if that helps to get our arms around this story?

[PatH]

It's interesting to contrast the way the two daughters cope with their emotional deprivation.  Meredith seems to have been able to love Jeff, be close to him in their marriage, not just have sex, but be intimate in important ways, cuddle for warmth, share feelings.  UNTIL their daughters leave home.  Then she seems to withdraw, wrap herself up in her work, and avoid emotional closeness with her husband.  Why is this?

Nina, on the other hand, seems to have never had any emotional intimacy with Danny, plenty of companionship, professional collaboration, and sex, but no emotional support of each other.

Both of them, when faced with the need to comfort the men, or the desire of the men to comfort them, be part of what is going on, freeze the men out.  They see they are hurting the men, but neither of them can make even small gestures towards doing anything about it.

Neither of them seems to see that she is repearting the same behavior that hurt her so much.

[PatH]

Barb is recovering from dental work, might not be around for a day or so.

[Frybabe]

Nina, on the other hand, seems to have never had any emotional intimacy with Danny, plenty of companionship, professional collaboration, and sex, but no emotional support of each other.

Now you've hit on just the thing that made me sit back and go Whoa, when I read this.

She knew about unequal love, how you could be crushed from the inside if one person was more in love than the other.

Nina on page 94

The levels of emotional deprivation and dare I say, abuse (wittingly or not), run deep in this story. It is a wonder that Meredith's two girls seem to have escaped the cycle set by their Mom and Grandmom.

[Frybabe]

I am reading another book, called The Metronome by D. R. Bell, which is a murder mystery. I mention this, because it is set in Russia, modern day, but the narrator is just now reading his Dad's diary which he just found. In it is a description of life during the war in Leningrad. It tells of starvation where people are stripping their wallpaper to get at the paste which is edible and boiling leather. No running water, so they go to the river and bring back buckets to boil. Heat is down to stoves stoked with furniture and books. He mentions the books twice. Wince. People who steal ration cards and are caught are shot on the spot. People freezing or starving to death. Anna Akhmatova gets a cameo. She reads her poetry over the radio.

The Siege of Leningrad lasted 872 days with 642,000 civilians dead. According to Wikipedia, total casualties for combatants were almost 580,000 for the Germans and their allies and more than 3.4 million casualties (over 1 million of those dead) on the Soviet side.

I wonder if we will find out where Anya was during the war, what horrors  she saw. We can see the effects.

[PatH]

Brr, Frybabe, if we do go to Leningrad, I hope she doesn't go into too much detail.

[bellamarie]

This women did not beat her children or punish them - she is simply distant and that is interpreted as being cold.

I do believe the author is showing us the outcome of how a mother/daughter relationship suffers when the mother lives in her own solitude.  A mother does not have to beat her child, to be abusive.  Withholding love and affection can be just as harmful to a child's self worth, as beating them.  One parent can never provide for their child, what the other parent refuses, or is incapable of providing.  I never knew my biological father because he was killed in a train wreck when I was just 3 yrs old.  As much as my mother and step father provided clothes, food, etc., neither of them could possibly give me the love I so desperately needed, and wanted from my real father.  These two girls have their mother right there, and has to suffer every day, knowing she would rather sit in her winter garden and freeze, rather than reach out and comfort herself and her daughters.  It's not just since the father died, it has been years and years before.  Yes, the girls are grown, but how you are treated throughout your life has a huge impact on who you are as an adult.  A child no matter what age, always will want and need their parent's love, affection and approval.

Meredith and Nina have been neglected by their mother for years, not just one story that causes her to react badly.  The father has tried to compensate for the mother's cruelness, coldness and solitude throughout these two girls lives.

PatH and Frybabe, thank you for the info on the state of the living conditions in Leningrad during war time.  It certainly does help knowing this, because it shows Anya is reverting back to those conditions now.  I'm still thinking onset of dementia, but only time will tell.

Barb, I am ready to move on to the next chapters if everyone else is.  I don't want to rush the book due to wanting to find out what is causing the mother to act like this, but if you feel we have covered discussing these six chapters, I am okay with moving on.  I have not, and do not read ahead when we discuss books.  I hope you feel better after having your dental work done.

[bellamarie]

I agree, where the two girls are concerned, they are setting themselves up for a lot of pain and heartache with their men relationships, if they continue on this course. 

[Tomereader1]

I was able to see the "sub-text" in some of the things Anya said, about food, selling jewelry, etc. as I have read several books dealing with the Siege of Leningrad.  I cannot however equate Anya's coldness to her daughters with the horror and hardships of that time.  And, how awful that these memories would present themselves in the onset of dementia/Alzheimers rather than memories of happier times.  But I guess something that horrible would tend to erase happier time memories.

[PatH]

So, are people ready to move on?  We can take chapters 7-13 next, start talking tomorrow as we finish up the later chapters.

Jonathan, are you still around, or did you freeze to death in the garden?

[PatH]

Tomereader, that's a depressing thought, left with your bad memories and not the good.

[bellamarie]

Oh Tom, that would be sad to think dementia would have the worst of your memories stay with you, and the best ones leave.  But then with Anya, what would be her best memories, other than time spent with her husband?  She surely doesn't seem to want or care about time with her two daughters.

Yes, PatH.,  I will go ahead and begin reading the next set of chapters. 

Jonathan, Spring has sprung here in Ohio, so like my beautiful three yellow finches I captured in my Rose of Sharon this morning, you too need to show yourself.

Since I love my garden as much as Anya does hers I must share this beautiful picture I took this morning while eating breakfast.  Look closely and see the three beautiful yellow finches. 



Feel free to resize if you want to.

[PatH]

Nice.  I love finches, so cheering.

[BarbStAubrey]

Birds in the bush are a delight - still nursing the infection - being allergic to most mycins and penicillin is making this a challenge - at least I am no longer groggy from the deadening shots and the pain pill - and thank goodness for a good neighbor who picked up my meds and left them in my garage so as not to disturb me - what a blessing he is and then my son who arranged everything when I called him, mumbling - I was so out of it...

Haven't started to read the next section but I will today - looks like these characters are touching our various views on life - ah so and that is what we have learned over and over reading a book together on Senior Learn... I love it - true to form and we keep it going...

I sure wish I had some of those apples here now cooking into a sauce - that would be such a perfect taste and ease of eating - hopefully by tomorrow I will be feeling better - at least better enough to scoot down the the store and pickup a few things - like applesauce and juices. I need to look into some of the recipe's for the foods mentioned in the story - never did much eating or cooking of Russian foods and that would be a new adventure - OK - I wish I could say off to read but frankly it is back to bed... till later...

[bellamarie]

Oh Barb, I am so sorry you are having such a hard time after your dental work.  Have you ever tried any of the online shopping for groceries?  Good to know you have a neighbor who is able to help you out, when family does not live nearby.

I have begun the next chapters and let me tell you, that storm I felt brewing has burst through the clouds....Meredith has finally found her breaking point, and Nina has finally returned to help with the mother.  But can these two daughters come to a common decision, on what is best, for the care of their mother?  We shall see..... both girls are very strong minded, so it will be interesting to see if they can come together and work with each other, rather than butt heads.

Tom, seems your info on the desperate measures back in the Leningrad war time has come to light in our story.  Scraping wallpaper off the walls, and boiling it for the paste for nourishment.....oh this is so sad.   

[PatH]

In this section the sisters face a new set of problems with their mother, and they handle them in very different ways, focusing on different things and going for completely different solutions.  Why is this?  Were you surprised?

[Frybabe]

Barb, I sure hope your infection clears up soon.

I forget where exactly the paragraph is, but there was a bit about how Anya always cooked enough for an army and kept the freezer full. That was my MIL; she had two freezers she kept full. She grew up poor and, like many, lived through the depression. Having enough food stored away was important to her She always encouraged us to eat more when we stayed for dinner. For my Dad, who also lived through the depression when he was young, having enough to feed the family was also very important.

I think Anya may suffer from PTSD. Is there something worse during a war? A psychotic break? Here we see some of the triggers that set her off. Nina should have been acquainted with this when she became involved in covering war and its devastating emotional effects. But then, perhaps she was never home long enough to recognize it in her mother. She may have seen it a lot sooner had she been told her Mom's history. All Dad ever said was that she was broken. The ending of one particular fairy tale, about the girl and the prince, seems to be an important clue.

 

[Jonathan]

Pat, I'm following the discussion with keen interest. The book fascinates me. They all care about each other. So how could it come to this. At the Christmas play, in 1972. The girls are 12 and 9.

Meredith turned, saw her mother standing in the center of the crowd, motionless, her face pale, her blue eyes blazing. Blood dripped from her hand. She'd broken her cocktail glass, and even from here Meredith could see a shard sticking out of her mother's palm.'...'She's such a bitch'...said Meredith, wiping her eyes.

In 2000, the girls are persuing successful careers, still caring about each other, but desperatly unhappy about their mother, who is showing signs of serious cognitive impairment. I can't help wondering why Dad never told the girls about their mothers early life. Text and sub-text have me baffled. And I'm hoping the rest of you will explain it all to me.

[Jonathan]

Bellamarie, your garden is a delight. I could happily spend an hour there with pleasure. The yellow finches know a nice thing when they see it. I have a bird's nest under the eave of my house, occupied by robins the last two summers. I'm hoping they'll be back.

Barb, a jar of my applesauce is on its way to you.

[bellamarie]

Well, I finished the next chapters, and am a bit disappointed.  I was looking for some big revelation, hmm....unless I missed it, there was no huge epiphany.  If anything, it all went as I suspected.  I was not surprised these two girls would not agree on what was the best way to care for their mother.  Meredith has been the more responsible daughter, staying with the family business, close to the family home, marrying, having children, where Nina is the adventurous type, non committing to any one place to live, refusing to fall in love.  Coming back to help with the mother, since her photographs are not acceptable quality any more, is not the best reason to return, but now that she is here, it seems she and the mother are able to connect and communicate, much better than Meredith is able to.  The obvious has also happened, Meredith's husband has left her.  Now it is the three of them, and lo and behold, they seem to be making progress!

The fairy tale fell flat for me.  Such a huge build up, for nothing too revealing.  I'm expecting there is much more to the mother's hateful ways, and solitude, even though she does seem to be opening up to Nina.

Jonathan, its good to hear from you.

I can't help wondering why Dad never told the girls about their mothers early life.

I agree, why on earth would the father not prepare these two girls before he died? 

Barb, my hubby went to the dentist today and had three extractions.  Every year a group of dentists offer free dental care to Veterans.  We do not have any dental insurance, so it was great he could have this work done for free.  He too has an infection. He surprisingly came home and took it easy today, and is doing pretty good this evening.  He actually ate dinner, which I did not expect he would do.  I hope you are feeling better.  Applesauce sounds like the perfect thing to have with a sore mouth.

[Frybabe]

I've had the suspicion for a while now that the "fairy tale" is autobiographical in nature, done up as fairy tale to distance Anya from the a reality she cannot - endure? accept? reconcile?.

It wonders me that I chose a another book to read, just before starting to read this one, that touches on some of the same subjects - the Russian love of poetry, Leningrad, missing family history, as well as the family secrets, estrangements and revelations.

For those interested in further info, Wikipedia has an extensive list of notes and bibliography on the subject of the Siege of Leningrad. Here is You Tubes page of programs relating to the Siege. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=The+Siege+of+Leningrad

[bellamarie]

Yes, Frybabe, it certainly seemed the "fairy tale" was Anya's story, and their father wanted her to be the one to tell it to the daughters.  Interestingly, while Meredith is packing up her father's study she comes across a file....

pg. 177  Meredith grabbed a file and pulled it out, seeing that the label had been partially ripped.  The part she could make out read: BepaIIeTpoBHa.  She was pretty sure that the letters were Russian.  Inside she found a single letter, postmarked twenty years ago from Anchorage, Alaska, and addressed to Mrs. Evan Whitson. 

Dear Mrs. Whitson,
Thank you for your recent reply to my query.  While I am certain that you could provide invaluable insight into my Leningrad study, I certainly understand your decision.  If, however, you ever change your mind, I would welcome your participation.
Sincerely,
Vasily Adamovich
Professor of Russian Studies
University of Alaska

.....she folded the strange letter, put it back in its envelope, and dropped it onto the Keep file.

So, twenty years prior, it seems Anya was contacted by this Russian Study Professor, who seemed to want Anya to help her with something, and Anya declined.  Maybe, if Anya could write her fairy tale/story into a book, it would be therapeutic, not only for her, but for her daughters, and others who survived this horrible time in Leningrad.  Nina has so many resources from her travels and photography, and Meredith certainly is perfect for organizational skills, if the two of them wanted to help Anya, put her words to writing.  What a perfect way for all three of them to get to really spend quality time together, and get to really know each other at this late stage of Anya's life.  If dementia is setting in, this is the time to do it. 

How many family members wish they would have spent more time with their parents and grandparents, learning the story of their lives?  My Italian grandparents migrated from Italy.  When they arrived in the United States their name was spelled, "Petrofritzi" today my last name is "Patterfritz."  I have seen birth certificates of relatives, with various spellings throughout the years, searching my family tree, and it amazes me how one name could be spelled wrong so many times.  I have been told that it probably was typed the way it sounded, or it could have been a typo error, but wouldn't my grandparents have papers from their place of birth, that they would have brought with them?  I would love to know the true spelling of my last name. Most of my aunts and uncles along with my Italian grandparents have passed on, and the only cousin who seems to have any info on our heritage has been doing her best to find out the correct spelling of our family name.



 

[bellamarie]

Barb, I hope you are feeling better this Saturday morning.  I think I have found the reason for the butterfly picture on the front cover of the book:

pg 190   She puts her hand into the big pocket of her wool coat and pulls out a cloissone' butterfly.  Vera has never seen anything so beautiful.  This in not the kind of piece their family can own__it is something from the kings or the wizards at least.  "Petyr's father made this, "her mother says, revealing a family history they knew nothing about.  "It was to be for the little princess, but the king thought it shoddy work, so your grandfather was fired and learned to make bricks of clay instead of pieces of art.  He gave it to your father on our wedding day.  And now it is what we have to remember someone in our family who is lost to us.  Sometimes, if I close my eyes when I hold it, I can hear our Petya's laugh.  "It's just a butterfly,"  Vera says, thinking it is not so lovely as she'd thought; certainly it is not a substitute for her papa's laughter,  "It is all we have," her mother says gently.

I remember after my maternal grandmother had passed away, I had gone to visit my Grandpa.  He pulled out this strange looking one eyed owl pin that you could tell was very old, and placed it in my hand.  He squeezed my hand, and told me he had given this to my grandmother when they were very young, and he wanted me to have it now.  I still have this pin, and like Vera, at the time, I thought it not so lovely, but now, when I see that strange looking owl pin, it gives me so much peace, love and joy, imagining the day (my grandpa,) a young man, giving that not so expensive pin to this young beautiful girl, (my grandma) and how much love that gesture was meant for her.  She had the cutest giggle, not laughter, but a giggle and she would always nudge me with her elbow when she giggled.  Funny how this cloissone' butterfly brought back all this to me....... 

After reading about "cloissone'" I wonder if my Grandma's piece would be cloissone'? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloisonn%C3%A9