Author Topic: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online (Read 36030 times)

JoanP · « **Reply #120 on:** July 05, 2009, 10:38:19 PM »

The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. everyone is welcome to join in.

People of the Book - by Geraldine Brooks

You'll fall in love with Hanna Heath, Geraldine Brooks' edgy Aussie rare book expert with an attitude, a loner with a real passion for her work. How could she refuse this opportunity of a lifetime, the conservation of the beautifully illustrated Sarajevo Haggadah, the mysterious Hebrew manuscript, created in Spain in the 15th century?

The invitation will bring Hanna into war-torn Bosnia in the spring of 1996 and then, into the world of fine art forgers and international fanatics. Her intuitive investigation of the manuscript will put her in a time capsule to medieval Spain and then back to Northern Australia again with a number of stops along the way. This is based on the travels of an actual manuscript, which has surfaced over the centuries since its creation in Spain.

Discussion Schedule:

July 15-19 Hanna, 1996; Insect's Wing;
   Sarajevo, 1940 (JoanP)
July 20-24 Hanna, Vienna, 1996; Feathers and a Rose;
   Hanna, Vienna, Spring '96 (Ann)
July 25-August 3 Wine Stains, Venice 1609;
   Hanna, Boston, 1996 (Traude)
August 4-August 8 Saltwater, Tarragona, 1492;
   Hanna, London, Spring, 1996 (JoanP)
August 9-August 13 White Hair, Seville, 1480;
   Hanna, Sarajevo, Spring, 1996 (JoanK)
August 14-18 Lola, Jerusalem, 2002;
   Hanna, Gunumeleng, 2002 (JoanP)
August 19-August 23 Afterword

(click twice to really enlarge)

Prediscussion Considerations

1. Had you ever heard of the illuminated medieval Spanish manuscript, now known as the Sarajevo Haggadah before now?

2. What exactly is an illuminated manuscript? Do you think a centuries-old illuminated manuscript would be fragile?

3. Can you find the meaning or the derivation of the word, haggadah?

4. What can you find in Geraldine Brooks' background that might have led her to Sarajevo and this particular topic?

5. Do you remember the Sarajevo Olympics? Any of the athletes who participated? When did Sarajevo host the games?

6. What do you know of the Bosnian War and the situation in Sarajevo, Bosnia when the story opens in 1996?

Relevant Links:

Geraldine Brooks - Background information; Sarajevo Haggadah; Early Haggadah Manuscripts; Illuminated Manuscripts; Brief History of Illuminating Manuscripts;

Discussion Leaders: JoanP, Ann , JoanK, & Traudee

JoanP · « **Reply #121 on:** July 06, 2009, 05:49:17 PM »

OK, so it WAS Trovill and Dean with their Bolero dance, who thrilled everyone with their ice-dancing in the 1984 Olympics in Sarajevo. And it was Katerina Witt who took the gold that year - AND again in Calgary in 1988. Why are we talking about the Olympics, you're wondering?Well, because by 1992, Sarajevo was under seige - all those fantastic Olympic arenas and structures were bombed to pieces.

The story opens in Sarajevo in 1996 - the city is still under seige. So what happened? What do you know about Sarajevo? Do you remember any tensions during the 1984 Olympics? I don't.

I found this when researching the Olympics -

Quote

Sarajevo 1984 -- XIV Olympic Winter GamesIn 1984, the Winter Games took place in a Socialist country for the first and only time. The people of Sarajevo gained high marks for their hospitality, and there was no indication of the tragic war that would engulf the city only a few years later.

What happened?

JoanK · « **Reply #122 on:** July 06, 2009, 07:04:59 PM »

I do remember the Sarajevo Olympics: Torvil and Dean changed Ice Dancing forever. Katerina Witt.

I remember vividly going through yugoslavia by train in 1963 on the Orient Express. The first class may be opulant, but Dick and I had little money and traveled 2nd or third class. The cars were the way they are in british movies: small, compartments that hold about 8 people. We were the only English speakers, but we managed to communicate anyway: everyone was friendly and helpful. We passed through a small town where there had been an earthquake: as we looked out on the shattered buildings, one of the passengers, with tears in his eyes, was explaining what happened. We couldn't understand a word, and yet we understood everything.

It made me sick that a generation later these kind people were killing each other.

straudetwo · « **Reply #123 on:** July 06, 2009, 10:54:43 PM »

I too remember the Winter Olympics in Sarajevo in 1984 - from TV.
At that time there were still two Germanys, [u[West[/u] Germany and - isolated, caged behind the iron curtain - East Germany. There were two German teams. Katarina Witt won her medals for East Germany. Nobody could have predicted that Germany would be reunited five years later. Katarina was a wonderful skater, on the tallish side 5.5 or 6, I recall. She was a pleasure to watch and spoke good English.
The Communist party in the East, the real power, coddled and trained its athletes specifically for international competition, many amenities were available to them. But the rest of the population was impoverished. I have seen it during visits I (reluctantly) paid there.

The former Yugoslavia was artificially created at the end of World War I after the defeat Germany and its ally, Austria-Hungary. In preparation for the fateful Treaty of Versailles, lines were drawn on maps, entire regions reconfigured. The history of the Peace Conference is described in Paris 1919: Six Months that Changed the World (2001) by Canadian author Margaret MacMillan. The book is excellent, a fascinating read and contains many photographs. We have discussed it here.

Encouraged by the fall of the iron curtain, two Yugoslavian provinces, Slovenia and Croatia, declared their independence. in June of 1991. And the world watched in surprise. But Bosnia (Muslims) and Serbia (Eastern Orthodox) became a powder keg. Yes, the siege of Serajevo, the capital of Bosnia-Herzegovina, is the longest in history: it lasted four years, from April 1992 to February 1996.

At the time Geraldine Brooks was foreign correspondent and observer. She began her writing career as a journalist when the Wall Street Journal sent her to the Middle East. Her first book was Nine Parts of Desire: The Hidden World of Islamic Women.

winsummm · « **Reply #124 on:** July 07, 2009, 12:00:47 PM »

the actor for hannah how about Sarah Jessica Parker from boys on the side.

claire

Gumtree · « **Reply #125 on:** July 07, 2009, 12:46:49 PM »

Here's a link to the text of an interview which Geraldine Brooks did last year for Aussie TV. It was an hour long programme so it takes a few minutes to read but gives some of her background and influences. I don't think there are any spoilers.

http://www.abc.net.au/compass/s2446434.htm

winsummm · « **Reply #126 on:** July 07, 2009, 02:49:04 PM »

and here is Geraldine herself. Now who does she look like .

http://www.geraldinebrooks.com/images/brooks_dock_col.jpg

claire

CallieOK · « **Reply #127 on:** July 07, 2009, 03:08:45 PM »

Sally Field

winsummm · « **Reply #128 on:** July 07, 2009, 03:15:07 PM »

I looked at a listing for thirty five upcoming and arrived women actors under thirty. ann hathaway was there but she is not the one. there was upcome work listed too. she's not there. . .so who is she joanp. . . .claire

EvelynMC · « **Reply #129 on:** July 07, 2009, 05:07:51 PM »

Gumtree: Thanks for the link to the interview with Geraldine Brooks. Hearing about her background was very interesting.

winsummm Thanks for the link to Geraldine Brooks picture. I agree with CallieinOK, she looks a lot like Sally Field.

But would they necessarily cast someone who is a look-a-like to Geraldine Brooks?

It'll be fun to see who actually is cast in the film version.

Evelyn

JoanP · « **Reply #130 on:** July 07, 2009, 05:45:57 PM »

For those of you who are just coming in - there is a movie in the works - and a very famous actress is signed to play Hannah Heath, the conservator in The People of the Book. My lips are sealed until you all get to know her.

I will say though - she is NOT Sarah Jessica Parker (not enough gravitas), not Sally Field, too Perky, not Ann Hathaway - and she's NOT under 30!

I like the idea of likening Geraldine Brooks to Hannah, though. In some ways they are very much alike, the author and the fictional character - Those sites you are providing are full of interesting material on the author. (Thank you Gum and Claire - did I forget anyone? I've been reading the sites all afternoon.)
So what do you think?

Geraldine Brooks was for eleven years a correspondent for The Wall Street Journal, where her beats included some of the world’s most troubled areas, including Bosnia, Somalia, and the Middle East.
She says in one of the many interviews -

Quote

"I was working as a reporter for The Wall Street Journal, and my beat was the United Nations, so I was occasionally required to go to Sarajevo to cover the U.N. operations there."

It was on one of those trips, during the siege of the city in the early 1990s, that I heard my fellow journalists speculating about this priceless 15th-century Hebrew codex that was the treasure of the Bosnian museum. It was missing, and nobody knew where it was.

I was inclined to think it was lost, because thousands of books went up in flames during the siege. The truth turned out to be, in a way, much better than the rumors: a Muslim librarian in the first days of the war had braved shelling to go into the museum, crack a safe, and bring this book to safety.

I heard, quite by chance, that the U.N. was funding a restoration of the actual codex, and I got on the phone and talked my way into the room while the conservator was working on the book.
But it was very dramatic -- it wasn't like any other book conservation job, because the Haggadah was under intense guard. Things were still very unstable in the city; the room was full of Bosnian police and Secret Service guys as well as U.N. soldiers. It was kind of a crazy scene, with this woman at the center of it who was the conservator.

I got to watch her do her very painstaking work"

So the seeds are sown for the Historical Fiction we are about to read!

JoanP · « **Reply #131 on:** July 07, 2009, 05:52:23 PM »

At last! Someone I know has ridden on the Orient Express! Thanks for that post, JoanK. And you went right through Sarajevo! Where were you travelling from - or to?

In each of the descriptions I read of the old Yugoslavia before the ethnic cleansing that took place during the seize in the 1990's, I sense that it was and had been a melting pot, the races existing peaceably side by side. I bet you wouldn't recognize those kind and friendly faces, Joan.

Has anyone else ridden on the Orient Express, or is this just a dream trip for the rest of us?

JoanP · « **Reply #132 on:** July 07, 2009, 06:08:20 PM »

Traudee - thank you so much for providing us with more of Sarajevo's historical background.

Didn't WWI begin with the assination of the Archduke Ferdinand - in Sarajevo?

So let's recap what you have told us -

"The former Yugoslavia was artificially created at the end of World War I after the defeat Germany and its ally, Austria-Hungary."

This story will take us to Sarajevo in 1940. The war had started. Do you know the situation there? What became of Bosnia during/after the war? The Germans were defeated, the land went to the Soviets?

I remember reading that the 1984 Olympics was the first and last Winter Olympics ever to be held in a Socialist Country. When was Tito's rule?

"Encouraged by the fall of the iron curtain, two Yugoslavian provinces, Slovenia and Croatia, declared their independence. in June of 1991."

"But Bosnia (Muslims) and Serbia (Eastern Orthodox) became a powder keg. Yes, the siege of Serajevo, the capital of Bosnia-Herzegovina, is the longest in history: it lasted four years, from April 1992 to February 1996."

Now I really must admit my ignorance - what was the outcome of the siege? Are both Bosnia and Herzegovina independent now?

JoanK · « **Reply #133 on:** July 07, 2009, 06:18:34 PM »

I don't know if we went through Sarajevo, but we did go through Yugoslovia. We were going from Geneva to Pyreus (sp?) the port of Athens, where we were due to catch a boat. Going tourist class is not quite as Romantic as you think: all the toilets were stopped up, and the trip lasted several days.

Yugoslovia was under Tito then and we got a taste of Communist beaurocracy. Leaving Yugoslavia, the train was stopped at some samall station. Everyone had to get off the train and stand in the snow for hours while "they" (whoever "they" were) searched the train. That is, everyone but us!! As the only americans on the train, we got to sit on board in lonely splendor while the people freezing outside stared at us. I have to admit, they were less than friendly then, but when our compartment-mates got back on board, we apologized to them. I used my warm coat to cover an old lady who looked really bad from the cold, and I think they concluded we weren't so bad.

Frybabe · « **Reply #134 on:** July 07, 2009, 07:16:32 PM »

In the for what it is worth department, here something under the Strange Maps heading: a seige map of Sarajevo. My guess is that the Olympic stadium the the oval structure near the top right of the pages. http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/182-sarajevo-siege-map/

I think I am going to mosey on over to Google Earth and Google images to see what I can see. I am interested finding old photos showing the city and some of the buildings mentioned in the book.

BTW, I have finished the first reading section. It is really hard to put it down and not go on.

Frybabe · « **Reply #135 on:** July 07, 2009, 08:30:11 PM »

Here is the Sarajevo National Library:
http://www.esiweb.org/rumeliobserver/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/sarajevo-center-37827920.jpg

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sarajevo-library-serotta.jpg

The Sarajevo History Museum:
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/00/16/fd/cf/national-museum-main.jpg

This is variously called the Old City and the Turkish Quarter.
http://bih-x.info/wp-content/slike/sarajevo.jpg

Ok, now I have to tell you this is a really, really important building: a brewery

http://img3.travelblog.org/Photos/30960/156393/f/1129306-Sarajevo-brewery-0.jpg

There are soooo many pictures of Sarajevo. Most are not dated. Most of what I saw were from the recent war/siege. There was even an image of People of the Book. I don't know when this was taken but I just adore this one.
http://www.davidparkstenor.com/images/sarajevo%20web.jpg

One other thing, there were a lot of pictures. some with rose petals strewn referring to the Sarajevo Rose. Nothing to do with the book, but I want to find out more about this. I'd still like to find some photos from 1940ish.

CallieOK · « **Reply #136 on:** July 07, 2009, 09:18:04 PM »

Here's a link to an article about current-day Serbia in the July 2009 National Geographic that might be of interest. If you click on the Photo Gallery link, a series of pictures will come up that can be enlarged by clicking on each one.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/07/serbs/carroll-text/1

I found it by Googling "National Geographic-Sarajevo".

winsummm · « **Reply #137 on:** July 07, 2009, 11:57:50 PM »

about that actor: can't think of anyone??? here's a list including celebrities to look at. I like Helen Mirren myself.

http://www.bestandworst.com/rate/ballot.php?id=36222

and more here. . . .most of them blonde but what the hey.

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTUzMjM5NTIyN15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwMTk4Mzg2._V1._CR83,0,319,319_SS80_.jpg

Gumtree · « **Reply #138 on:** July 08, 2009, 01:01:17 AM »

Such a lot of links t to look at - no time right now but will come back later.

Winsummm You're really caught up on this actor thing...have you considered that it may be an Australian Actor to play the Australian conservator? - Cate Blanchette would be about the right age and is high profile....and then there is Nicole Kidman....have to wait and see

Babi · « **Reply #139 on:** July 08, 2009, 08:52:41 AM »

Those are great pictures, FRYBABE! I wish I could visit those places, though
it might be frustrating to be in a library full of books I couldn't read.
I do not that the brewery appears to be the best kept building. More money
available there, I should think.

Naional Geographic is one of my favorite learn and love magazines, CALLIE.
I have no trouble waiting in somebody's office if they are lying around.

Helen Mirren is an excellent actress, CLAIRE, but from the last picture I saw
of her, she could not pass as a woman in her late thirties, no matter how good the make-up people are.

ANNIE · « **Reply #140 on:** July 08, 2009, 10:17:14 AM »

JoanP,
Here's a link to the !st Tuesday Book Club in Australia discussing "POB". Thought you might be interested in listening to it.
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/firsttuesday/s2170245.htm#top

bellamarie · « **Reply #141 on:** July 08, 2009, 10:44:29 AM »

Good morning all. I have just finished reading all your posts and will try to get my hands on this book before July 15. I am leaving for a couple of days of sun and relaxation so I will see if my library has it to take along. It sounds like a fun read from all your posts.

Gumtree · « **Reply #142 on:** July 08, 2009, 11:20:46 AM »

Sarajevo Rose is the mark left in concrete by mortar - they are filled with a red resin and sometimes resemble a rose shape. A memorial to those who died in the shelling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarajevo_Rose

Gumtree · « **Reply #143 on:** July 08, 2009, 11:22:52 AM »

The link to the First Tuesday Book Club discussion of People of the Book has an excerpt from the book which may be a spoiler.

winsummm · « **Reply #144 on:** July 08, 2009, 02:55:45 PM »

hi gum.

kidman is too pretty. I'm thinking about hannah doing her job while surrounded by security people and managing to get lost in concentration. thinking about a bookish stile lady. late thirties a must???

I persist once caught up in an idea. thinking about someone wearing rimless glasses and slightly messy dark hair drooping over the side of her face not the author. she looks neat. . hmmmm having fun anyhow. afraid to talk about the book so as not to be a spoiler. I've read it all so have to be careful. . . .claire

JoanP · « **Reply #145 on:** July 08, 2009, 03:24:59 PM »

Attention - did everyone hear Gum's warning about the excerpt from the book - in the link First Tuesday Book Online Bookclub? If you haven't read the book - DON'T READ IT!

Annie, it was good to hear from the panel - they had differening perspectives on the book. Two of the panel members had no use for Hannah. One of them said she loved the writing, but didn't connect with her character. It will be interesting to hear the reaction of our group. I know from past experience that you will say what you think!

Claire, I agree. Though Gum had an interesting idea, selecting an Aussie actress to play the Aussie conservator - I too think Niclole is too pretty in a blond way - to portray the Hannah I have in my head. I can't wait for your reaction to the actress who will play her - but want to wait until you all have your own image on the stage in your mind. My bet is that you will think she's a good fit - but will wait until you've read the book.
Claire - yes, late thirties - and dark hair, no Sarah Jessica blond curls.

Welcome, Bellamarie - enjoy your vacation days. Where are you going?

JoanP · « **Reply #146 on:** July 08, 2009, 03:54:43 PM »

Doesn't the Internet play an amazing part in our online book discussions! I can't get over the amazing information that you all are finding and bringing to the table to share with us! How can we thank you enough?

Gum, I read the link you brought yesterday on Geraldine and upbringing in Australia. I put the link in the header so that it will travel with us into the actual book discussion next week. It fascinating reading of her Roman Catholic upbringing and then later, of her conversion to Judaism at the time of her marriage to Tony Horwitz. There was so much information in that interview that will contribute to our knowledge and understanding of the author - and Hannah Heath too, I think.

I loved reading of her mother's influence on forming her imagination - and her father's, which ultimately brought her to politics, journalism, her job with the Wall St. Journal covering the UN in wartorn countries - including Bosnia.

The photos are beautiful, Margie/Frybabe. You really get a feel for the place - although they do look a bit peaceful, don't they? The one you refer to as your favorite looks like an oil painting - could be anywhere. I hope to see some 1940's pictures too - although Sarajevo was occupied by the Germans until the end of the war. Maybe Sarajevo was spared the bombing?

Callie - that was such an important link you provided to the divisions in Yugoslavia. My husband explained today that Yugoslavia means "All Slavs." It is amazing to consider the divisions that exist today. Yugoslavia is GONE. The land that was once considered to be Yugoslavia is now as the map Callie has provided - 7 nations (I thing that's what they are called)
Bosnia (with its capital, Sarajevo), Serbia, Croatia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Kosovo...
Just look at this map! (Click it twice to be able to read it.)

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/07/serbs/img/map-serbs-760.jpg

It makes you wonder what it's like today - there are peacekeepers still. The divisions were made according to ethnicity, which included religion. I'm quite sure the Muslims are in the majority in Sarajevo. We need to look up to see by how much and where the Catholics and Orthodox figure in that. Is there a Jewish population? We should be able to find something about that.

ANNIE · « **Reply #147 on:** July 08, 2009, 05:16:29 PM »

JoanP,
Sorry that I didn't read the spoiler. Only watched the book club discussion. Mea culpa!

While I was watching the movie, I noticed that one of the readers misnamed Hanna's job. I believe he referred to her as a restorer. Hey, we all know that she was not a restorer but a conservatore.

I see that you have found the article that I mentioned in National Geographic. I read the whole thing and was much confused as to who was who. What a mess those people seem to be in. My SIL's grandparents were from Croatia and he has always thought that his grandfather was working to raise monies for his home country although he and his wife became citizens of America. They were married over 75 yrs. Even got a letter from the Pope on their anniversary.
I really like that map of Sarajevo from Strange Maps site.

straudetwo · « **Reply #148 on:** July 08, 2009, 07:58:41 PM »

JoanP, the map in your # 146 is very helpful. They always are, I believe, in fact essential.
This one clearly shows the provinces of Slovenia and Croatia, the first to declare independence, as I had mentioned earlier.

Ann, the article about Serbia, especially its future, in the National Geographic , is confusing, I agree. It presupposes historical information many of us do not possess. That is precisely why I found Paris 1919 by Margaret Macmillan so clear on background and immensely helpful without being too detailed or overwhelming.

Part Tree of the book with the heading THE BALKANS AGAIN has a chapter about Yugoslavia (pp. 110 - 135)
On p. 111 Margaret Macmillan writes

Many people in Paris found the Balkans confusing. At his first meeting with (Serb statesman) Nikola Pasic (also spelled Pashitch), (British Prime Minister) Lloyd George inquired whether Serbs and Croats spoke the same language. Only a handful of specialists, or ranks, had made it their business to study the area. What most people knew was that the Balkans were dangerous for Europe; they had caused trouble for decades as the Ottoman empire disintegrated and Austria-Hungary and Russia vied for control; and they had sparked off the Great War when Serb nationalists assassinated the heir to the Austrian throne in Sarajevo.

JoanP,
The German occupation of Sarajevo in WW II began in 1941 and ended in 1945; the city was bombed. In the Bosnian war the city was shelled by the Serbs and also bombed again, according to an article by Andrew Marshall in Brussels in The Independent World of 4 August 1993. This is how it begins :

The allied agreement yesterday to United States plans for air strikes in Bosnia was obtained only after guarantees on the involvement of United Nations forces in their implementation, according to alliance sources.

The deal struck by the North Atlantic Council in the early hours reflects a careful trade-off. The US wanted a significant shift in the use of air power, with Nato playing an active leading role. France and Britain were concerned by this extension of the West's role in the hostilities and wanted limitations. The agreement released yesterday remains ambivalent in key areas, but its wording reflects a precise political balance.

The agreement was a clear warning to the Bosnian Serbs, said Stephen Oxman, US Assistat Secretary of State. 'If they do not cease their efforts to strangle Sarajevo, Nato will be prepared to use air power', he said. The outcome is a triumph for the Americans. Nato was also delighted that the US had shown decisive leadership, while the alliance had been kept together.

The siege lasted for almost four years, from April 1992 to February 1996.

straudetwo · « **Reply #149 on:** July 08, 2009, 08:23:26 PM »

JoanP.

How about Judy Davis as Hanna in the film version?

She's a magnificent actress (A Passage to India). She's Australian and from Perth (also Gum's home).
And she's dark-haired.

Gumtree · « **Reply #150 on:** July 09, 2009, 02:43:49 AM »

Yes, Traude, I agree Judy Davis would do it well but I rather think that these days she is a trifle too old for the part.

Gumtree · « **Reply #151 on:** July 09, 2009, 03:25:38 AM »

Winsummm You've got me going on this actor thing... can't agree with JoanP's thought that Nicole Kidman is too pretty - think of how they made her up into an untidy, dark haired Virginia Woolf for that part in The Hours. And her acting in that role earned her an Academy Award. I'll stick with her as she'd do Hannah Heath to a T.

fairanna · « **Reply #152 on:** July 09, 2009, 04:28:40 AM »

Just a few lines to say my book should arrive soon .. was notified by Band N it was on its way and that usually means in about two days.. I will be careful I hope and not read too far ahead ,,,but I know from past reading a good book I sometimes cant stop ...a good book just takes you along and almost demands you finish it ;;;but am looking forward to discussing it and reading the posts only makes it more exciting to start.. so take care amd see 'ya later alligators

Babi · « **Reply #153 on:** July 09, 2009, 09:00:42 AM »

Oh, well, JOAP, any actress who wants a role will happily change her hair
color to get it. Me, I don't know enough about actors and actresses to even
try to suggest one. Except for a few well-known favorites, I simply enjoy
the fictional characterization and seldom think twice about who played the
role. Very lazy of me, of course.

The political situation in that part of Europe is very confusing to me, so I'm
glad to see I'm not the only one. I think I would need a well-written book, a
la McMillan, to get a grasp on the whole thing.

Frybabe · « **Reply #154 on:** July 09, 2009, 09:15:05 AM »

Here are some of the links I came up with for Sarajevo, 1941. I clicked on "destruction" on this first link and came up with even more info and demographics.
http://serbianna.com/blogs/savich/?p=308

Here is a rather lengthy but interesting history of the area: http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/006.shtml

This next link is a rather scathing review of the POB. http://www.islamicpluralism.org/articles/2009a/090301brooks.htm

JoanP · « **Reply #155 on:** July 09, 2009, 09:31:23 AM »

Look, Fairanna has joined our growing ranks! Welcome ~ Anna!

Babi, I think we have such a enthusiastic group gathering here - plus the Internet at our fingertips, I really don't think we need to read another book in order to understand what is going on in Sarajevo during the time in which the book is set. Although I do agree with you - because of the chaos in this area, it does get confusing. As Annie says - it was a real "mess."

Maybe if we focus on the two periods in which the Hagaddah surfaced in Sarajevo, we can simply matters and not get overwhelmed with the amount of information available on the Internet - I think we need to get a feeling of the place, without going into the long history of upheaval in that poor beleaguered area. You have to wonder if it will really ever be settled.

Let's start with the year 1940 - the first time the book appeared in Sarajevo - we'll be reading about this in G. Brooks' fictionalized rendering of this discovery.
Than you, Traudee for helping us with this -

"The German occupation of Sarajevo in WW II began in 1941 and ended in 1945; the city was bombed."

Traudee - Do you know who did the bombing - Was it the allied forces during the bombing - or the Germans prior to the occupation?
I do see in one of the links Frybabe brings to us that - Sarajevo's ancient Jewish synagogue "was immediately destroyed by German, Croat, and Bosnian Muslim forces, after the occupation of the city, according to Leni Yahil in The Holocaust: The Fate of European Jewry, 1932-1945". “On April 16, German forces entered Sarajevo, and, with local Muslims, plundered and destroyed the main synagogue.”

So, the city wasn't occupied bombed until 1941 - thank you for the links - and the photos, Frybabe
Occupied until 1945. Hmm...we'll have to rely on the fiction to learn what happened to the book - in 1940 or 1945. I imagine there was a frenzied atmosphere to preserve precious items as the people came to realize that the Germans were coming.

We do know that by 1984, Sarajevo was rebuilt and restored to host the Olympics.
Now we need to turn to 1991 to see what lead to the upheaval - some would call it a Civil War - to get a sense of the situation in which Geraldine Brooks found herself as a reporter- and the next time the Hagaddah surfaced - in 1996 during the uneasy truce closely maintained by outside peacekeepers.

ps. No, not Judy Davis - although she fits the "Hannah" in my own mind. As far as I can tell, there already is an actress who has "film rights" to the movie - whatever that means.

JoanP · « **Reply #156 on:** July 09, 2009, 10:18:06 AM »

Frybabe - I've carefully read the "scathing Muslim review" you brought to our attention and can understand the reviewer's feelings - seeing the events he has experienced first hand, presented as historical fiction for the entertainment of the rest of the world. I thought that his reaction was understandable - but am a bit uneasy, perhaps unwilling to believe that Geraldine Brooks brings us a work "based on lies", as he tells us. I think she brings us the story based on the information she had - and then goes on with her fiction, which seems to trivialize reality - in the eyes of the Muslim reviewer.

How about a little ethnic/religious background? I think it is critical to our understanding of the situation in Sarajevo. Ethnicity seems so closely tied to Religion, it is difficult to find information that separates them.

Bosnia is predominantly Muslim - still (although during the siege in 1992, the Serbs massacred/deported thousands - staggering numbers, children too - in an ethnic cleansing attempt. when they occupied the Bosnian capital of Sarajevo)
.
Bosnia today - Muslim 40%; Orthodox Christian 31%; Roman Catholic and 14% "other?"

Serbia - Orthodox Christian, 85%: Roman Catholic 6%; Muslim 3%

Croatia - Roman Catholic 88%; Orthodox 5%.

Croatia and the Serbs were at war until signing a peace agreement in 1991. It was then that Serbia turned its attention to the ancient capital of Sarajevo located in Bosnia. Serbs against Muslims.
You need to look at the map to understand what they wanted - not Bosnia itself, just the capital city. I hope I've got that right - I'm sure someone will correct me if I've misunderstood in my attempt to simplify -

(Click it twice to be able to read it.)

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/07/serbs/img/map-serbs-760.jpg

It is my understanding that Geraldine Brooks was not in Sarajevo during the actual Serbian siege of the city, but came in during the unstable period immediately following - I may be wrong about this. She does indicate in the link Gum brought to us, now in the heading, that she was there to see the Hagaddah being examined by a conservator in 1996. Whether she was there earlier, during the actual siege as a journalist, I'm not sure. Shall we put this on our list of questions for Geraldine Brooks?

Frybabe · « **Reply #157 on:** July 09, 2009, 10:54:01 AM »

JoanP, A copyright holder (which is not necessarily the author) can sell or option a work to someone who hopes to get financial backing and directors, production people, etc. interested enough to a movie. I don't know the ins and outs, but I expect that the rights holder can produce the film, sell the rights if they decide not to produce, or in the case of options, let it expire. Once the option expires, I expect the "rights" go back to the copyright holder.

As far as the review, Brooks did state that lots of the book was fiction or fictionalized. The review is handy to point out areas, perhaps, that we need to fact check. His concern that if this becomes a movie viewers will remember/regard things as fact rather than the fiction is valid in situations where the viewer has no or little knowledge of the events portrayed.

JoanK · « **Reply #158 on:** July 09, 2009, 03:28:40 PM »

I share that concern. I've found that the first thing I read on any subject sticks in my mind, and becomes "the truth". Thus I would like to be clear as to which parts are based on facts. Unfortunately, the critic was long on anger, and short on details.

On the other hand, parts of this book are obviously fiction. I've only read the begining, but took her having the book saved by a Muslem as a statement of unity in the preservation of history and art that transcends religious differences, rather than literal fact (I don't know why the critic was offended by it). And the butterfly wing as a symbol of where it went was obviously poetic liscence.

The following from the historical text linked above may or may not be useful:

"The Bosnian Serbs are representatives of the Orthodox Christian Church and of the Byzantine culture and are part of the larger Serbian nation. The Bosnian Croats are representatives of the Roman Catholic Church and the Austro-Hungarian culture and are part of the Croatian nation. The Bosnian Muslims are representatives of Sunni Islam and were part of the Turkish Ottoman Empire and culture. The Bosnian Jews are representatives of Judaism and are mostly descendants of Sephardic Jews expelled from Spain following the Inquisition and expulsion of the Jews."

It left me confused. Are the Bosnian muslems Serbs, Croats, both, or neither? We have both religious and ethnic differences here: not clear how they interact.

straudetwo · « **Reply #159 on:** July 09, 2009, 06:46:12 PM »

Many thanks for the posted links.
We can assume, I believe, that the reported events inevitably reflect the origin and provenance of a historian, like Carl Savich, e.g.
There is no absolute truth, especially not in this centuries-old struggle between religions, ethnicities and cultures. Unrest in the Balkan countries has a long tradition.

This is what Richard Holbrook wrote in his Forword to Paris 1919:

Some of the most intractable problems of the modern world have roots in decisions made right after the end of the Great War. Among them one could list the four Balkan wars between 1991 and 1999; the crisis over Iraq (whose present borders resulted from Franco-British rivalry and casual mapmaking); the continuing quest of the Kurds for self-determination; disputes between Greece and Turkey; and the endless struggle between Arabs and Jews over land that each thought had been promised them.

As the peacemakers met in Paris, new nations emerged and great empires died. Excessively ambitious, the Big Four set out to do nothing less than fix the world from Europe to the Pacific. But facing domestic pressures, events they could not control, and conflicting claims they could not reconcile, the negotiators were, in the end, simply overwhelmed -- and made deals and compromises that would echo down through history."

IMHO we don't have to go deeply into what is, after all, past history, - none of which can be corrected. I believe there are two tasks ahead, the discussion of Hanna's journey, the developments in her own life, and the wonderfully imagined journey and salvation of the sacred codex itself.

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Author Topic: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online (Read 36030 times)