Author Topic: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online  (Read 39044 times)

marcie

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #160 on: July 09, 2009, 07:20:22 PM »

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  everyone is welcome to join in.


People of the Book - by Geraldine Brooks

      You'll fall in love with  Hanna Heath,  Geraldine Brooks'  edgy  Aussie rare book expert with an attitude, a loner with a real passion for her work.  How could she refuse this opportunity of a lifetime, the conservation of the beautifully illustrated Sarajevo  Haggadah, the mysterious Hebrew manuscript, created in Spain in the 15th century?

The invitation will bring Hanna into war-torn Bosnia in the spring of 1996 and then,  into the world of fine art forgers and international fanatics. Her intuitive investigation  of the manuscript will put her in a time capsule to medieval Spain and  then back to Northern Australia again with a number of stops along the way.  This is based on the travels of an actual manuscript, which has surfaced over the centuries since its creation in Spain.
Discussion Schedule:

July 15-19 - #1 -   Hanna, 1996; Insect's Wing;
    Sarajevo, 1940  (JoanP)
July 20-24 Hanna, Vienna, 1996; Feathers and a Rose;
    Hanna, Vienna, Spring '96 (Ann)
July 25-August 3 Wine Stains, Venice 1609;
   Hanna, Boston, 1996 (Traude)
August 4-August 8  Saltwater, Tarragona, 1492;
   Hanna, London, Spring, 1996  (JoanP)
August 9-August 13 White Hair, Seville, 1480;
   Hanna, Sarajevo, Spring, 1996  (JoanK)
August 14-18 Lola, Jerusalem, 2002;
   Hanna,  Gunumeleng, 2002  (JoanP)
August 19-August 23  Afterword

(click twice to really enlarge)


Prediscussion Considerations

1. Had you ever heard of the illuminated medieval Spanish manuscript, now known as the Sarajevo Haggadah before now?  

2. What exactly is an illuminated manuscript?  Do you think  a centuries-old illuminated manuscript would be fragile?

3.  Can you find the meaning or the derivation of the word, haggadah?

4.  What can you find in Geraldine Brooks' background that might have led her to Sarajevo and this particular topic?

5. Do you remember the Sarajevo Olympics? Any of the athletes who participated?  When did Sarajevo host the games?

6.  What do you know of the Bosnian War and the situation in Sarajevo, Bosnia when the story opens in 1996?

  


Relevant Links:

Geraldine Brooks - Background information; Sarajevo Haggadah; Early Haggadah Manuscripts; Illuminated Manuscripts; Brief History of Illuminating Manuscripts;

Discussion Leaders: JoanP, Ann , JoanK,  & Traudee

Babi

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #161 on: July 10, 2009, 08:43:40 AM »
 Oh, I wasn't suggesting that we read another book in conjunction with this
discussion, JOAN.  I was just saying that personally I would need such a
book to understand the confusing historical background. For the purposes of
this book, what the author tells us is adequate, I think.

 Oops, I wrote a note here, and then realized that info. was from the book
itself. Deleted, promptly. I will say that I did not see any depiction of
Muslims that deserved such a 'scathing' response.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

ANNIE

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #162 on: July 10, 2009, 10:07:11 AM »
Perhaps, because we are reading fiction, we can separate the book itself from the true Haggandah presented to Sarajevo and preserved in the National Museum.  This book is a story about a woman's opinion of what happened to the sacred codex  plus the story of her life while involved in researching the clues that have fictionally popped up. 
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

CallieOK

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #163 on: July 10, 2009, 11:17:43 AM »
"People of the Book" is also a fictional story of exactly that - the people who were involved as the Haggadah found its way to Sarajevo.

You might want to take a close look at the map inside the jacket cover - and take note of the sketches from each place that's marked.  (Hint, hint  :))

JoanP

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #164 on: July 10, 2009, 10:57:19 PM »
It's good that we take the time now to understand that this is historical fiction based on what is known of the actual appearances of the Sarajevo Haggadah - before we get into Geraldine Brooks' imaginary story - built around the facts.  

Because the author actually spent time in Sarajevo during the siege, actually saw the Haggadah when it was presented to the conservator and researched the history of the book,  I feel confident in accepting the factual part of the book.  I don't agree with the criticism that she had an agenda - or worse, lied about things that she knew were falsehoods.  I do understand how it would bother some to see the facts mixed with fiction - it sort of trivializes the facts if you care strongly about them - as the Muslim reviewer obviously did in his criticism of the book.  Did you read his criticism?  Was there anything in it that concerned you?

One thing he said that puzzled me, especially when you consider that Geraldine Books, a convert to Judaism,  would have no reason to  downplay the Jewish part in displaying the manuscript"-

Quote
"Brooks skips over the historic showing of the manuscript by the city’s Jewish community, and devotes little attention to today’s Bosnian Jews, who figure prominently in the life of contemporary Sarajevo"


Perhaps he is overlooking the fact that the story, though written in 2006, opens in 1996, a very unsettled time for all Bosnians.

JoanK - you present an interesting question -
Quote
Are the Bosnian muslems Serbs, Croats, both, or neither? We have both religious and ethnic differences here: not clear how they interact.

As I understand it - with the help of the World Almanac - and posted in #156: 
Bosnia is predominantly Muslim - still  - although during the siege in 1992, the Serbs massacred/deported thousands - staggering numbers, children too - in an ethnic cleansing attempt. when they occupied the Bosnian capital of Sarajevo.
.
Bosnia today - Muslim 40%; Orthodox Christian 31%; Roman Catholic and 14% "other?"
Before the siege, the Muslim number was much higher, but they were massacred and deported.  

Serbia - Orthodox Christian, 85%: Roman Catholic 6%; Muslim 3%

Croatia - Roman Catholic 88%; Orthodox 5%.


Nothing is said about the Bosnian Jewish population - do you think they are included in the "14% designated as "other"?
It would be interesting to know what the Jewish population numbered in the 1990's during the siege.  I'll check around - you do too.

Callie, the map on the inside cover of the book has been reproduced here - it appears in the heading - in the first post on the top of every page.  Do you see it?  Pat has put a red #1 at the location in Sarajevo  - next to the 1996 Sarajevo ruins - where the story begins.  If you click the map twice, you should be able to read the small print.






Gumtree

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #165 on: July 11, 2009, 01:00:28 AM »
It seems to me that the Muslim reviewer - he of the scathing report - really wanted POB to be a different book perhaps written from another point of view. If he felt so strongly maybe he should write a story more to his own liking.

All we have to do is remember that we are reading imaginative fiction which uses historical events as a starting point and has a wonderful artifact and work of art at its centre.

Isn't it amazing that Brooks actually saw the conservator at work on the Haggadah - that she was 'on the spot' at the crucial time.

Can't wait for the 15th to begin this journey together. 
Reading is an art and the reader an artist. Holbrook Jackson

straudetwo

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #166 on: July 11, 2009, 01:46:06 AM »
JoanP
The criticism of a Muslim is to be expected.   Geraldine Brooks already faced it after the publication of her first  book about the hidden world of Muslim women.  

In this case, I believe, the criticism is NOT warranted because,  as I read it,  the book is not about the Jewish population in Sarajevo in 1996, but about a precious, authentic codex that was passed in secret from its first-known provenance,  Spain,  through different countries over a few centuries and ended up in Sarajevo where it is now proudly displayed.  As to the percentage of the Jewish population in Sarajevo in 1996, GB is bound to know the answer.

Babi,  of course we are free to read up on anything that could provide the answers we seek.  And  IMHO there is no better place to find them than Paris 1919. We know very little about  20th century European history and geography except for mass murderers like Hitler and Stalin.  
 
Macmillan's book is a pleasure to read, has short chapters presented in chronological order, and an excellent index.  There are some amusing anecdotes, too, e.g. about crowned heads, like Queen Marie of Romania, who was beautiful and a bit of a femme fatale who invited herself to tea with President Woodrow Wilson, the US representative, and appeared half an hour late.    :D

P.S. Gum Found your # 165 just now while proof-reading my post.  Just wanted you to know that I totally agree with what you said.

JoanP

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #167 on: July 11, 2009, 10:26:29 AM »
I can't get over the fact that GB was invited - or was  allowed to watch the conservator examine the Haggadah, Gum!  No wonder she is able to portray that scene...whoops!  Need to wait before getting into the fiction.  July 15 is right around the corner!  

Between July 15 and the 19th, we'll talk about the Sarajevo chapters - covering 1996 and also 1940.  Have you read them yet?  Then you're ready to start on the 15!

Traudee, though you feel that People of the Book is not about the Jewish population in Sarajevo in 1996, I was curious to know something about it when the question arose.  I'm sorry that I didn't jot down the website where I found this - will search if someone wants to read more -


Quote
Although the Association of Jewish Municipalities of Yugoslavia says only eight members of the community were killed in Bosnia and Herzegovina in the more recent war, the number of Jews living in Bosnia today has still fallen sharply. Only about one thousand remain, half the population in the pre-war period.    
The small number of fatalities does not tell the whole story about the impact of the war in the 1990s on the community either, because it does not indicate how many Jewish monuments were demolished, for example.
 
The Jewish Municipality in Sarajevo says during the three-year siege of the city about 1,000 members of the community left in convoys organized by the Jewish Municipality in tandem with the US Jewish Joint Distribution Committee.  
 
According to the Association of Jewish Municipalities of Yugoslavia, of the eight Jews killed in Bosnia, six were killed in Sarajevo and two in Banja Luka.


Before the beginning of the Second World War, Bosnia and Herzegovina was home to about 14,000 Jews, about 12,000 of whom lived in Sarajevo, making up about one-eighth of the city’s population at the time.

More than 10,000 were killed in the Second World War by the Nazi German occupation forces and their local allies, the Croatian Fascist Ustashe. About half the surviving 4,000 then moved to Israel over the next few years.
 
Although the 1991 census recorded only 426 Jews living in Bosnia by then, the Jewish Municipality put the figure at 2,500, more than half of whom lived in Sarajevo.  
 
Today, the community in Sarajevo numbers about 800 members, with much smaller groups living in Tuzla, Mostar and Zenica. In Republika Srpska, the Jewish Community consists of about 200 members, of whom about 100 live in Doboj and the same number in Banja Luka.



straudetwo

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #168 on: July 11, 2009, 01:31:26 PM »
Thank you, JoanP.

There's is a pictorial representation on a State Department map at
http://www.srpska.com/MAPS/Ethnic.../map-State-Dept.html

and another map at

commons.wikimedia.org/...File:Former Yugoslavia-Map.png

straudetwo

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #169 on: July 11, 2009, 01:38:44 PM »
Great information, JoanP, thank you.
I just found a State Dept. map on line showing the ethnic representation,  as well as a map of the former Yugoslavia and the nations that surround it.

Sorry, I am unable to link them.



CallieOK

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #170 on: July 11, 2009, 03:09:45 PM »
JoanP, When I come in, I usually click "Replies to your last post" - which takes me to the post following the one I last read.  So I had not seen the map at the top of the page.
I do have the book so can look at that one as I read.

Thanks for calling the one here to my attention.

JoanP

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #171 on: July 11, 2009, 04:21:23 PM »
That's good to know, Callie - that some people come in the way you do - and don't even see the discussion topics or information at the top of each page.  We'll have to keep that in mind once we begin the discussion.

Traudee, I can't figure out what's wrong with the link to the State Department map - it appears to be all there, but some part of it must be missing.

straudetwo

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #172 on: July 11, 2009, 08:51:56 PM »
JoanP
How frustrating!  

Right after I posted, my grands came,  Kevin, 13, and Hannah, 10  (going on 15) :). They brought along their best friends from school  Ailish and Kieran, who are brother and sister. With them, alas, came Brady, my grands'  incorrigible black Labrador.
I love dogs, always have; but Brady is the glaring exception that confirms the rule.  The feeling is mutual.

Hannah and Ailish busied themselves at my computer while I prepared supper. Now all is calm - except that  I can't find the State Department link any more. Oh my.  And I was sooo careful, checked and rechecked the URL.  It would have been a nice complement to your excellent link.  

I'll try again, though  probably not tonight because the grands AND Brady  >:(  are spending the night ...



Babi

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #173 on: July 12, 2009, 08:40:08 AM »
You never know. I thought, with so many people hanging around, that the scene where Hanna first examines the book was overdone. Now I find that it was an entirely accurate description.

Straude, you are a softy! Grands are wonderful, but an 'incorrigible Labrador'
definitely is not.  Of course I'm a fine one to talk.  I once allowed a temporary
guest to keep his dog, also. Turned out the dog (a Dane, heaven help us!) was
terrified of thunderstorms.  I woke after a storm to find a chair and the corner
of my kitchen table chewed to pieces.  Dog had to leave, and guest went with
him.  Guest did pay to re-upholster the chair, but never got back to me on
the ruined table.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

winsummm

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #174 on: July 12, 2009, 01:31:27 PM »
my compputer is off limits to anone but my daughter and even she leaves behind her evidence of disruption.  When my grandson was three he enjoyed computer games designed for his age group and when they visited one way to keep him busy was to put them on my computer.  Big mistake, big disrupter and conflicter. It took forever to get that stuff off of it.

After that I wouldn't allow it and it made for family disruption but was worth it.

My daughter is  a pro with computers but even she messes things up for me, so I let her but and don't say anything but expect to have to adjust afterwards.  After all she comes three thousand miles to see me.

claire
thimk

JoanK

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #175 on: July 12, 2009, 07:35:00 PM »
Sigh!!! My nephew saved my bacon when my computer got a horrible virus. Would it be petty to complain that he installed the "latest and greatest" music program and completely messed up my music library. oh, well.

mrssherlock

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #176 on: July 13, 2009, 11:16:22 AM »
I'm busy catching up but I wish I had a time machine.  While taking a class in Social Revolution (think Russia in 1917, etc.) the professor recounted how he had spent some months living with locals in the mountains of then Yugoslavia.  They were tough and had fought the Germans in WWII and were not fans of Tito either.  Wish i could pick his brain.

I think Jennifer Anniston has the look of a Hannah; I'm not a good judge of her acting talent as I usually like her when I see her.  She's the right age, I could see her roaming around the back of beyond in Australia.

I've read tis book twice now and it still entrances.  Such lovely references listed here; it will take me a week to look at them all.
Jackie
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

zanybooks

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #177 on: July 13, 2009, 11:16:38 AM »
Count me in.  I notice there are both audio and large-print editions. Still, a love story, yuck.

EvelynMC

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #178 on: July 13, 2009, 04:30:53 PM »
I read the book already and when I went to take it out of the library again, none of the copies were available, so I bought my own copy and  finished reading the first assigned part last night.  It is better the second time because I know what it's about.

I'm looking forward to the 15th.

Evelyn

JoanP

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #179 on: July 13, 2009, 05:09:46 PM »
Oh, I'm really looking forward to this discussion, too, Evelyn!  And look, Zanybooks has found his way to Seniorlearn and this discussion - and Jackie (mrssherlock) too!  Welcome both of you!  We have a wonderfully, diverse group gathering.

I'll be really interested to hear what you think of this "love story."  Two more days!

stayathome

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #180 on: July 13, 2009, 09:23:42 PM »
I'm new to this site & this is the first square I've found that I can type in to introduce myself.  I'm 'bi-coastal' - New Zealand born but also with Australian citizenship. 63 years of age; doing a Mental Health support work certificate, computer studies, and also Mauri Ora (Maori protocal).  Not really a stayathome!  Discovered the site through a Google search to see if Oscar Wilde genuinely wrote about a cat with nine lives and discovered discussion about The Guernsay Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society which I'd just finished reading.  Now I just have to discover how to master the SeniorLearn discussions site and find the time to take part!  Yvonne.

JoanK

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #181 on: July 13, 2009, 09:51:27 PM »
YVONNE: WELCOME, WELCOME! Pull up a chair and join us! There are many Kiwi's and Aussies on this site. They show us geographically impaired Yanks more patience than we deserve when we ask dumb questions about your part of the world. I hope you will, too.

For example, I would love to hear a little about Mauri Ora.


Some useful links: click on the links below, then on the last page listed to get the end of the discussion:

If you want to introduce yourself to everyone (only if you want to) http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?board=24.0

If you have a question or problem navigating the site: http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?board=23.0

Or you can ask here.

To see all the discussions, go to the bottom where it says "go to" and click on the arrow.

Was that clear? If not, just ignore it.

JoanP

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #182 on: July 13, 2009, 09:53:05 PM »
Yvonne, look at you!  You're doing it!  You've mastered SeniorLearn!  A second Antipode to join our Gum from Sydney   leafy Perth- to help translate Geraldine Brooks' Australian slang!  How grand!  To echo JoanK - Welcome!

Did you enjoy the Guernsey Potato Peel Pie?  Did you find anything about Oscar Wilde's cats?  I remember searching for that myself.  

Gumtree

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #183 on: July 14, 2009, 03:29:09 AM »
JoanP NO! NO! :o   I'm not, and never have been, a Sydneysider - I live in the leafy suburbs of beautifulPerth on the Swan River. Perth is almost on the same latitude as Sydney but right across the continent on the Western Australian coast. My sea is the Indian Ocean not the Pacific. But then, how were you to know?


Yvonne Welcome! It's good to see you here. Where in NZ are you living and how did you come to take out Aust. citizenship? Hope you find time to participate - the discussions here are really super and I really do need a little more moral support to help protect myself from all these 'yanks'   ;)
Reading is an art and the reader an artist. Holbrook Jackson

Babi

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #184 on: July 14, 2009, 09:05:56 AM »
ZANY, I think the 'love story' has a minor place in this book. One of the
most interesting aspects of the book is that it tells so many stories,set
in different places and different times.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

JoanP

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #185 on: July 14, 2009, 10:28:43 AM »
Aah, "leafy Perth"  - sorry, Gum, I was mixing you with our author, Geraldine Brooks!.  A different ocean altogether.  I've always wanted to visit Perth, ask Bruce, he'll tell you.  I too hope you stay with us, Yvonne.

Babi's right, Zany, the love story is secondary - but Hannah remains with us - and so does her heart...

JoanP

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Re: People of the Book ~ Geraldine Brooks ~ July 15 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #186 on: July 14, 2009, 10:04:53 PM »
Let's take all of the information we gathered during this pre-discussion - and move on over to the discussion of