Author Topic: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2 (Read 776179 times)

ursamajor · « **Reply #2640 on:** January 04, 2012, 10:03:40 AM »

This is the place to talk about the works of fiction you are reading, whether they are new or old, and share your own opinions and reviews with interested readers.

Every week the new bestseller lists come out brimming with enticing looking books and rave reviews. How to choose?

Discussion Leader: Judy Laird

One of my kids had an English teacher who told her the phrase "The little village lays in the valley" was correct. My question is "Lays what???" I think the distinction between lie and lay is rapidly being lost to our society.

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #2641 on:** January 04, 2012, 12:29:14 PM »

Roshanarose - i was at senior school in the 1970s and I (along with the rest of the class) suffered 5 years of verbal (and sometimes physical) abuse at the hands of the ancient Latin teacher because none of us knew anything about parts of speech, verbs, etc - we had a lovely English teacher but the syllabus did not include grammar. I can see now how frustrating it must have been for that Latin teacher, to be faced by a class of so-called intelligent girls (only the top French set were allowed to take Latin) who had no idea what conjugate meant. I don't think this quite justified her screaming incessantly and hurling blackboard rubbers at us, but I do think everyone would have been a lot happier if we had been taught basic grammar beforehand. Like you, I learned the hard way, and I am so grateful that I did learn - apart from the pure pleasure of knowing what is right and what is wrong, grammar is so useful in learning other languages, doing crosswords, etc.

Rosemary

Tomereader1 · « **Reply #2642 on:** January 04, 2012, 12:38:46 PM »

On another topic, anyone here "like" short stories? I don't like them, as a rule but very recently loaded a Short Story collection on my Kindle as a "free book". By an assortment of authors, and predominantly stories of some of the eccentricities of the American "South", this has been a super-enjoyable read for me. The title is: Sweet Tea and Jesus Shoes, which is also the first story in the collection. The writing is excellent (IMHO). I will check with Amazon to see who the authors are, and let you all know later.

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #2643 on:** January 04, 2012, 01:00:17 PM »

Tomereader - I have just read it, and the reason I did so is that it was free on Kindle - I also don't usually enjoy short stories, and only read these because they were recommended on a books blog that I follow. I really enjoyed them - it seemed to me that for once they were real stories with plots and not just meandering observations that don't go anywhere. And I loved all the details about Southern life.

Rosemary

pedln · « **Reply #2644 on:** January 04, 2012, 01:05:35 PM »

thanks for the tipoff, Tomereader. I just downloaded that title, to have on hand.

Re: English. It seems it's called lots of things nowadays. Language Arts, Communication Arts, and so forth. I asked my daughter if my HS freshman grandson was in AP or Advanced English and she said the English teachers didn't want AP English because they thought it was too easy. I know it's no longer politically correct to "track" students, but I think they still need to do it for English, otherwise there is such a wide range of abilities. The kids seems to track themselves when it comes to math and science.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #2645 on:** January 04, 2012, 01:17:12 PM »

One of my quandries when teaching college thru the 90s and 2000s was students - from different high schools - who wrote w/ no paragraphing. They just wrote straight thru their answers in the essay questions! They must have done it in their high school essays, how could it not be corrected? Of course, i'm assuming that somewhere in high schl they had to write essays, which may be a HUGE assumption.

Frybabe · « **Reply #2646 on:** January 04, 2012, 02:00:40 PM »

Speaking of essays, Jean, if the students get English and practice in writing, how are they expected to write the essays many scholarship, grant programs and college entrance exams require? I used to love reading essays, if not write them when I was in school. I also read many more short stories then than I do now.

nlhome · « **Reply #2647 on:** January 04, 2012, 07:09:24 PM »

FryBabe, did you see the meteors? My husband got up in the middle of the night to watch for awhile. It was cold, so he didn't stay up long. Then he slept like a baby, but I was awake.

I love short stories, especially mysteries. They are good reading in bed, because they don't take too long and I can usually stay awake until finished. I think it takes skill to write a good short story.

Frybabe · « **Reply #2648 on:** January 04, 2012, 07:16:34 PM »

No I didn't nlhome. I looked out the window a few times around the time I thought they were supposed to be whizzing by, but saw nothing. I wasn't about to go out in the cold. There isn't much good stargazing where I am now because of the lights and the moon was out. I expect to see some photos/videos uploaded to spaceweather.com, but haven't looked yet.

nlhome · « **Reply #2649 on:** January 04, 2012, 07:18:49 PM »

My husband saw two, plus a jet. Then he and the dog came in. I should have gone out too, for as much sleep as I got after. He saw a bit on the news tonight.

MaryPage · « **Reply #2650 on:** January 04, 2012, 08:07:39 PM »

I believe English should be taught in schools. I certainly cherish the classical English language as, for instance, Winston Churchill, Noel Coward, Oscar Wilde, and George Bernard Shaw wrote and spoke it. Oh, and our own wonderful William Allen White, among others.

That being said, you know and I know and we all know that this language, precisely as is the case with ALL others, has evolved over the centuries and will continue to do so. Or, more properly, so to do.

If we could sneak back in say, two hundred years, we might no more recognize our own language than we easily read Chaucer's Canterbury Tales. That's just the way the cookie crumbles and, much as we may deplore it, what IS going to be the case!

roshanarose · « **Reply #2651 on:** January 04, 2012, 08:51:43 PM »

I agree totally re more English grammar in schools. You are right Rosemary, learning English grammar when you are studying languages that are no longer spoken, as is the case with Latin and Ancient Greek , is definitely one of the biggest challenges I have ever faced. But now when I attempt to speak Greek I find that the problem of pronunciation is the most difficult for me, and spelling, as MG has several letters, or combinations of letters, that are pronounced the same. People ask me how difficult it was to master the alphabet. It was a doddle compared to grammar, spelling and pronunciation

When I taught my last Modern Greek class to U3A students, two of them had only studied Ancient Greek, the others French and Italian. The two used to drive me up the wall because they never added the acute accents that every word but one or two Modern Greek has, in their written work. Not surprisingly they had problems speaking MG as well. Then I learned by reading something about Ancient Greek online that indeed AG when written (always by the elite - either in the Doric or Attic dialect) did NOT have accents until the period when Alexander the Great started spreading Greek all over Asia. Also in Greece today most ancient inscriptions don't put spaces between the words and they are all written in Capitals. Then the learned ones decided at the beginning of the Hellenic period that they would start using accents so people who were not Greek could speak and pronounce it properly. Hence Koine, New Testament Greek, eventually came into being. MG is a direct descendant of Koine - they are very similar.

I would say that all those Older or Ancient forms of Greek continue in some way today in Modern Greek, predominantly in vocabulary, and verbs. This is not the case with Latin, which is not spoken as such anymore, only perhaps at Academics' cocktail parties and Latin classes. My favourite subject is languages ..... obviously.

roshanarose · « **Reply #2652 on:** January 04, 2012, 09:13:25 PM »

TomeReader - You may enjoy Katherine Mansfield's short stories. They are almost surreal.
I love her attention to detail. Everything "lives" in Mansfield's eyes.

I found one for you if you would care to take a look. It is called "Bliss". "Garden Party" is good too.

www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/Blis.shtml

Steph · « **Reply #2653 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:35:32 AM »

Having owned several retail store, I can guarantee that the current day clerks cannot subtract. They totally depend on the register and never ever count up, no matter my threats..Sigh.
I am feeling nostalgic..Rooted around in my bookshelves, came up with Cashelmara .. Oh boy, I bet I have read it a half dozen times. I love how she told the story of several kings, but made them ordinary people..

Babi · « **Reply #2654 on:** January 05, 2012, 08:46:44 AM »

Quote

grammar is so useful in learning other languages

Rosemary
I learned the truth of that when I studied Spanish, ROSEMARY. I did just
fine on vocabulary, and I did have some of the basics of grammar. The fine
points I had not learned, tho', and it definitely made a difference.
I do hope the 'details' about Southern life were reasonably correct.
But then, you'd be surprised how many true stories from Texas are assumed to be 'tall tales'. Years ago they used to put out a small book with all the
Texas legends, and very helpfully made a distinction for the reader by using
italics to distinguish the facts from the fiction.

Tomereader1 · « **Reply #2655 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:51:21 AM »

Babi, these stories do not really deal with "fact". They may be entirely factual, with the fictional woven in, and the word I guess I should have used would be "idiosyncrasies" of Southern life/people. We all have stories about "old Aunt Lulu" or "crazy Granny Belle". Whether or not the stories were factual, or the details were correct, I found the stories to be fun, easy reading and totally enjoyable!

JoanK · « **Reply #2656 on:** January 06, 2012, 02:34:19 AM »

I agree with Mabel. When I tought college, I was surprised at the poor quality of the English of many of the students. And these were not students from poor backgrounds.

When I was a kid, we did endless diagramming of sentances. That not only tought me much grammar, but since I had to analyze the sentance to see the relationship of all the words to each other, it tought me logic as well.

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #2657 on:** January 06, 2012, 03:58:54 AM »

Joan, my son went to (state) school in the most affluent area of Aberdeen - his written English was and remains atrocious, and whenever I tried to correct it he told me that the teachers said it didn't matter, as they were looking for facts, not marking his grammar/spelling, etc. He got a B in Higher English (a lot of his friends failed it - B is pretty good) which to me says either that he was hiding his light under a bushel (unlikely!) or that the standard is unbelievably low. Depressing.

It's not all gloom, however, as elder daughter is at music school in Edinburgh and the standard of everything there is high - her English teacher comes from the same mould as us, and there is no messing about with anything 'not mattering'.

Rosemary

Steph · « **Reply #2658 on:** January 06, 2012, 06:15:39 AM »

One of my cousins was an english teacher in middle school. She believed in diagramming and used it all the time. She is now retired and ran for and is on the school board and campaigns for stricter standards all the time.
Does James Patterson plan on making himself into some sort of factory. Publishing and promoting on TV.. Good heavens, has the man no dignity at all.

Babi · « **Reply #2659 on:** January 06, 2012, 09:06:42 AM »

I think we all enjoy hearing or reading about the idiosyncrasies of regional
groups. We drawling Texans find the 'ayup' of New England priceless. The
Southern belles would gather in their classroom dorms just to listen to the
gal from New Joisey talk. She could say anything...just keep talking! A
Georgia man married a sister of my ex., lived thirty years in New York State,
and you could still cut his Georgia accent with a knife....to use a Southern
expression. And heaven knows we've found regional recipes..and variations
thereof...most interesting posting on sites here.

STEPH, from the day they began allowing lawyers to advertise, and they began pontificating earnestly or oilily (is that a word) on TV, I abandoned all illusions as to dignity in professional promotions.

jane · « **Reply #2660 on:** January 06, 2012, 10:12:00 AM »

from Steph: Does James Patterson plan on making himself into some sort of factory

Steph...a think a number of writers have become "writer factories" or a corporate author name wherein a lot of what I formerly thought of as "ghost writers" are submitting manuscripts which come out under the corporate/brand name author name. I believe he's the one I've heard says he gives an outline of an idea to others who then do the actual writing. Somehow, even I could come with an "idea" or outline for a book...it's the writing the thing that's the hard task, I think.

I've read that Nora Roberts wrote 100 novels in 18 years...1979-1996 and had 4 on the best seller list in 1999 and 2000. WHEW! She supposedly has said she writes 8 hours a day, every day, even on vacation. [Wikipedia is the source here for me] How anyone can write that much every day and under different pseuds and on such widely different topics boggles my mind and leaves me--well, sceptical. She, however, is not the only writer I wonder about.

marjifay · « **Reply #2661 on:** January 06, 2012, 10:55:32 AM »

"Does James Patterson plan on making himself into some sort of factory. Publishing and promoting on TV.. Good heavens, has the man no dignity at all."

I don't think dignity is what he thinks about. It's boucoup money he likes.

Maj

Tomereader1 · « **Reply #2662 on:** January 06, 2012, 11:01:54 AM »

Well, I, for one, quit reading Mr. Patterson about the time of his first foray into the "dual author" category. His book before that one was, to me, a real dud, and I gave the dual author thing one chance. Needless to say, I was not impressed. I really like the Alex Cross series until Patterson went off the rails. I would not "buy" one of his books, and don't even check them out at the library anymore. In fact, in going to my library book sales, there are probably twice as many of his "mysteries" there for sale as for anyone else. The newer titles too.
they could probably do a whole table with just his stuff.

jeriron · « **Reply #2663 on:** January 06, 2012, 12:38:28 PM »

I made the mistake of reading a couple of his duel author books and didn't like them. I soon realized he wasn't writing them at all.
I agree I liked the Alex Cross books but haven't read the last couple of those either.

ursamajor · « **Reply #2664 on:** January 06, 2012, 04:50:28 PM »

Like the above posters, I really liked the Alex Cross novels but gave up reading Patterson some time back. It was a crazy book about children with bird genes who could fly like angels that broke the camel's back. I can like science fiction, but let's be honest about what it is.
Speaking of science fiction and future societies, has anybody else read The gate to women's country by Sherri Tepper? That has a really cute unexpected ending.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #2665 on:** January 06, 2012, 05:51:53 PM »

I'm about 300 pages into Ken Follett's new trilogy of the twentieth century, it's almost 1000 pages, and it's pretty interesting. (is using "pretty" in that way a colloqualism- is that spelled correctly? Haven't used the word in a long time.) he does a good job of weaving together the various families of sev'l nationalities. Archduke Ferdinand has been killed and the countries are deciding what their responses will be. Altho the times were very patriarchal, he has deftly included women characters at many levels of society, and they are interesting ones.

Jean

pedln · « **Reply #2666 on:** January 06, 2012, 08:35:17 PM »

My f2f group met yesterday to discuss Helen Simonson's Major Pettigrew's Last Stand. Yours truly was discussion leader and brought a lot of material from the SeniorLearn discussion of last May. I think the f2f group was really impressed that the book took Simonson five years to write, and that the novel evolved from a short story written for her writing class, followed up with several additional short stories about the Major, which were shared with the class. I don't see one a year coming from her.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #2667 on:** January 07, 2012, 12:19:20 AM »

Has anyone read or reading Haruki Murakami's 1Q84. Hopefully I can come up for air before the month is over - golly it has been years since a read a book with over 900 pages but he is such a wonderful author - there are two others, no three others I want to read - I have but have not started, The Prague Cemetery - Umberto Eco and I want to get a copy of the Tiger's Wife that when I first saw it I didn't think it had legs and finally, I have had on my list since it was published but other books came first, The Tragedy of Arthur - sounds like a mix of fantasy, fun, history and a grandiose mind.

Steph · « **Reply #2668 on:** January 07, 2012, 06:18:00 AM »

I love Sheri Tepper and have read "The gate to Womens Country" Wonderful book.
I used to love Alex Cross, but the vampire take he did years ago on that series made me stop reading him.. I just marvel at the people that buy him..Oh well.
Nora Roberts. Since I love the J.D. Robb, but dont read her romance stuff, I do wonder, but from when I had the store, I would read some of her romance things to keep up with my readers. The answer for her is that I think ghost writers are there somewhere, because even the writing style and vocabulary are quite different.. I know she wants you not to believe, but I also know I met her at a convention years ago and I will guarantee that her pictures and her real person are really different.

jeriron · « **Reply #2669 on:** January 07, 2012, 08:56:51 AM »

I don't understand the reason for authors writing under different names. Whats the reason for it? I've never read Nora Roberts before and only read "the Search" because it was about search and rescue dogs. Infact I didn't even know she and J.D. Robb were one and the same.

Babi · « **Reply #2670 on:** January 07, 2012, 09:33:44 AM »

JANE, I couldn't help but think that if Nora Roberts actually wrote 8 hours
a day, EVERY day, she didn't have much of a life. I find myself envisioning
a stooped hermit.

JEAN, 'pretty' beats 'cute' any time in my lexicon. Wouldn't fit in your
sentence, of course, but do get tired of hearing so many things described as
'cute'. Babies and puppies are cute...that's about as far as I'll allow. If
a living room decor is 'cute', I wouldn't be able to stand it!
To me, 'pretty' interesting is a 'well, maybe, maybe not'. $:-\$

From all the comments on Seniorlearn, I suspect Mr. Patterson's popularity
is waning fast. He may soon find himself without enough readers to be worth
publishing.
JERIRON, the first time I came across the 'different name' for a
popular author, I wondered if perhaps the author wanted to see if his/her books would sell if they didn't carry an already well-known name. It also
occurred to me that a reader might pick up a particular author with certain
expectations, and be annoyed or disappointed to find it was quite different.

Frybabe · « **Reply #2671 on:** January 07, 2012, 09:38:11 AM »

Quote

From all the comments on Seniorlearn, I suspect Mr. Patterson's popularity
is waning fast.

I agree, Babi. I suspect his cameos on Castle and his current venture into advertising his books is an attempt to boost readership/sales.

pedln · « **Reply #2672 on:** January 07, 2012, 11:05:47 AM »

Jeriron, sometimes when an author changes names it has something to do with publishing. I don't know if it's because they want to go with a different publisher, or if because the current publisher requests it.

Frybabe · « **Reply #2673 on:** January 07, 2012, 02:34:59 PM »

Pedln, I just read yesterday, don't remember exactly where, that publishers will sometimes suggest that a writer use another name. It had something to do an author getting poor reviews/sales with a few books. If the writer goes with a pen name, and I assume a new set of characters in the case of series, she/he sometimes enjoys better sales. One popular writer mentioned in the article complained that everyone knew and bought books under his pen name, but fairly neglected works under his own name.

I wonder if some authors use two or three pen names to separate out their works in different genre. For instance, Sheila Kelly writes under S.L.Viehl for her science Fiction, for Christian fiction she uses Rebecca Hall and for romantic fiction she uses three different names: Lynn Viehl, Gena Hale, and Jessica Hall. I have no idea why three different names for the romances, but it appears that Gena Hale and Jessica Hall are older pen names. Her current offerings under Lynn Viehl look like they might be supernatural romantic fiction.

CubFan · « **Reply #2674 on:** January 07, 2012, 02:47:17 PM »

Greetings -

Some additional thoughts.

I think that some authors use different names for different types of books because they feel that readers expect a certain type of writing & if they write a different type of book they won't be picked up and read by a different set of readers. Nora Roberts is thought of as a romance writer & for her name to show up as a mystery/detective writer she might have been dismissed those readers.

I know that was the rationale of of Mary Norton, writer of children fantasy books, who used a different name for her science fiction titles. Dr. Seuss used LeSieg for his easy to read books to get around people who objected to his picture books. It worked for a while.

Also some changes are made because of gender - especially science fiction and detective book. Whereas generally women will read any author, men still shy away from women authors. If authors want science fiction/detective titles etc to be purchased and read by men they need to have a male appearing name.

Book sales are the underlining motivation.

Mary

Steph · « **Reply #2675 on:** January 08, 2012, 06:21:48 AM »

Yes, authors use different names to indicate different types of books.. What surprised me one time is that one of the cozy mystery writers with a female pen name is a man and his little entry indicated he writes under six different names, all in romance, so obviously it is felt that women write romance.
I was talking to a woman in the library the other day. I was filling up our little shelf area with the for sale books for Friends.. She was looking at the books. She allowed as to how much she loved James Patterson and reads all of his because she feels he is reliable.. Whew.. a different take from me..

Babi · « **Reply #2676 on:** January 08, 2012, 08:47:20 AM »

Ah, that last point hadn't occurred to me, MARY. I imagine a good many men
would assume a woman writer couldn't write a really good detective/action/
science fiction book. I suppose it's equally unfair for us women to assume
a man couldn't write a good romance book. Too much sex and not enough
romance, right?

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #2677 on:** January 08, 2012, 12:09:55 PM »

More than the type of book that we assume is easier for men versus women it is the skill to have a character of the other sex convincingly speak so the character is not only believable but the author can imagine a story where the opposite sex is driving what happens next. It has to be that a successful author that can write characters of the opposite sex are more than mimics - they would have to have a good appreciation for the thinking behind the action they are writing about. I think that is an astonishing skill - I wonder if it is a gift or if you can learn to do that.

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #2678 on:** January 08, 2012, 02:19:23 PM »

There is an article about Sophie Kinsella in my writers' magazine this month. She wrote all those Shopaholic books (which I haven't read but they are successful) but she also writes different books under the name of Madeleine Wickham. She said the reason she has two names is that her publisher said people expected a certain type of book from Madeleine Wickham, and the Shopaholic books were not that type.

It's a bit depressing to think of someone just reading James Patterson because he's 'reliable' - but I think many people do that, and I know I have a bit of a tendency to do it myself. That's one of the reasons this group is so good - if one of you recommends a book I will try it almost despite myself, whereas if I just saw it on the library shelf I probably wouldn't.

Rosemary

ursamajor · « **Reply #2679 on:** January 08, 2012, 02:40:44 PM »

I have chosen to read - even to buy - several books because they were recommended in this discussion. Some of them I would never have pulled off the shelves otherwise. It is good to have a little advance knowledge before starting to read a book.

I have recently read the Kate Shugak books from the beginning, and it has been a good experience. I was surprised that the newest one is greatly in need of at least proof-reading. The names of the characters are mixed up in at least one passage, and there is a reference to "at least three months" in a car pursuit when she obviously meant "at least three blocks." Makes you wonder if the writer was perhaps inebriated or at least bored by her subject.

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Author Topic: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2 (Read 776179 times)