Author Topic: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2 (Read 776215 times)

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #2680 on:** January 08, 2012, 02:46:32 PM »

This is the place to talk about the works of fiction you are reading, whether they are new or old, and share your own opinions and reviews with interested readers.

Every week the new bestseller lists come out brimming with enticing looking books and rave reviews. How to choose?

Discussion Leader: Judy Laird

Ursa - I have just read the first one (free on Kindle) - the only other one I have read is The Singing of the Dead. I very much enjoyed this first one - when I read The Singing of the Dead I was very confused by all the terminology.

It's a shame if the latest one hasn't been proof-read. I do think publishers are getting very sloppy. I know just from the experience of writing my short story for my OU course that you, as the writer, can proof read until your eyes are almost falling out and you still miss things that are blindingly obvious to other people, so it may not be Dana Stabenow's fault. Also I wonder if she has been put under a lot of pressure to churn out more and more?

Rosemary

Frybabe · « **Reply #2681 on:** January 08, 2012, 03:16:23 PM »

Quote

I know just from the experience of writing my short story for my OU course that you, as the writer, can proof read until your eyes are almost falling out and you still miss things that are blindingly obvious to other people, so it may not be Dana Stabenow's fault.

That is probably the primary reason one of my English teachers impressed upon the class (and I never forgot it). Never proof your own work. Perhaps the publishing companies are cutting back on their editors and proofreaders as a cost effective measure. At any rate, don't they usually hand out galley proofs to several people to go over before the final is ready to print? Did they drop this trying to push out more titles, or are the proofers just that bad anymore? Maybe they are relying too much a good old spell checker program which, as good as they are, do not catch everything. It still takes a good human eye. A mistake getting through is inevitable, but the number and kind of mistakes getting through these days is bordering on unacceptable.

maryz · « **Reply #2682 on:** January 08, 2012, 03:37:43 PM »

I think there's no such thing as a proofreader any more. The publishers depend on spellchecker and grammarchecker, which has no impact whatsoever on content. I've noticed it a lot. Very annoying.

jane · « **Reply #2683 on:** January 08, 2012, 04:27:34 PM »

Ursa...I find more and more errors in well-known authors, and it drives me a bit nuts. In one, the engagement ring was put on her right hand. Really? What was the author thinking?

I've also seen where characters names are mixed up or a character has one name in most of the book and then suddenly another name appears. I wonder if publishers have dropped the proof reading that apparently used to exist?

jane

CubFan · « **Reply #2684 on:** January 08, 2012, 04:50:39 PM »

I wonder also if proofreading isn't suffering from the need to do everything so quickly. I have done various types of proofreading and have found that for me several elements are important: quiet, time to take my time, no interruptions.

I also know that I have to have a hard copy to look at. For me proofreading on a computer screen is ineffective. I think a lot of proofreading is now done looking at a screen and I don't think the eye sees details on a computer screen.

Reading the information out loud also helps because you hear the mistakes & it slows down the reading.

Mary

JoanK · « **Reply #2685 on:** January 08, 2012, 07:50:38 PM »

ROSEMARY: I think it was GINNIE who put me on to the Shopaholic books, and I am addicted. They are sooo funny. (Of course I can feel semi-superior, since I am tight with my money. Semi, because when it comes to books, I am a complete shopaholic!! But it doesn't seem to mmatter: all my friends, who are at various places on the shopping spectrum, love them. And she laughs at us penny-pinchers, too).

Frybabe · « **Reply #2686 on:** January 08, 2012, 08:19:08 PM »

Quote

I also know that I have to have a hard copy to look at. For me proofreading on a computer screen is ineffective. I think a lot of proofreading is now done looking at a screen and I don't think the eye sees details on a computer screen.

Cubfan, you are on to something there. A few years back, when George was doing his PhD work, I commented to him that I noticed that I read differently from the screen than from hard print. I couldn't read very long passages straight through; my eyes wanted to bounce around more. (I thought it has something to do with the ads and other page distractions.) He was doing research in the area of computers, reading, and how the brain interprets what it sees. He confirmed that people do indeed read differently from a computer screen. Later, while working at Fry, I was in conversation with one of the loggers about reading. She, it turned out, is dyslexic. The computer screen actually helps her read better.

nlhome · « **Reply #2687 on:** January 08, 2012, 08:31:49 PM »

I print out documents after proofing them on the screen, because I, too, read differently on the computer screen than on paper. Errors seem to stand out more on paper.

JoanK · « **Reply #2688 on:** January 08, 2012, 08:41:54 PM »

That's interesting. I've found the same thing.

Steph · « **Reply #2689 on:** January 09, 2012, 06:21:53 AM »

I keep a running list of books mentioned here, that look interesting. Some I love, others not so much.
Kate Shugak.. I love Kate..She has chaned so much since the beginning of the series, now they did a backstory on Jim.. This last paperback is complex. Three different villains.. Whew..

Babi · « **Reply #2690 on:** January 09, 2012, 09:02:40 AM »

I hate to think of all the great books I would have missted if posters here
had not brought them to my attention. This is where I keep up with what the
rest of the world is doing, saying and reading. All viewpoints cheerfully
acknowledged and cheerfully rebutted..

I think it is a combination of those things, FRYBABE. I believe there have
been cost-cutting measures in the ranks of the proofreaders, but correcting
the errors before printing is also costly. More and more some publishers seem
to decide the minor errors aren't worth the cost. Surely someone should
have caught the one Ursa mentioned, about printing 'months' where 'blocks'
would have been needed.

Frybabe · « **Reply #2691 on:** January 09, 2012, 09:53:10 AM »

Quote

More and more some publishers seem to decide the minor errors aren't worth the cost.

That is so true Babi. If often depends on where in the process the error is found. Sometimes it is a matter of being caught too close when it is scheduled on press for someone to get back into work and correct, assuming it isn't something they want us to correct; other times it is actually caught on press. Press down time is costly, replating is costly, and of course, if we did the correction, they get charged for that too. Just the replating costs along can be hefty. For example, say you have a four color plate. The customer is charged for each plate, not each page. Depending on the page size, the cost for just one page can be $300 or more. If the error requires changes to more than one page than it really gets horrendous. This time of the year proofers have to be especially careful about checking the dates. We've had pages numbered incorrectly, too.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #2692 on:** January 09, 2012, 11:36:25 AM »

All of a sudden something hit me - I wonder if we are expecting perfection from something that is based in creativity - what I am thinking of is how often we are told and shown the many errors in the hand copied books copied by scribes and monks long before the printing press.

I do know that email is often creative reading - some write with no capitols, truncated words, no decent punctuation - and since it is harder to read long paragraphs on a screen paragraphs are also truncated for easier reading rather than, because of logical discourse. Even here in our posts I often truncate a paragraph to make it easier to read.

Sure, out and out errors are a pain but then maybe the deal is to smile and think as if reading the work of a tired monk copying by candle with a meager fire for warmth and missing some lines or words...at least a printed story isn't adjusted by some over ambitious monk who decided to add a parable or two in the margin or along the edge that then gets carried along for the millennium.

pedln · « **Reply #2693 on:** January 09, 2012, 11:52:47 AM »

I think automation is what killed proofreading. Proofreading was my summer job when I was in college. THe Racine Journal Times had four full-time proofreaders and I was the "sub" while they each took vacations in turn. Of course they had type-setters back then. We read news stories singly, but always two persons together read the ads, definitely for the classifieds and I think most of the other larger ads too.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #2694 on:** January 09, 2012, 12:17:05 PM »

pedln - you remind me - lordy - years ago - back in the 80s when news ads were the means of letting many folks know about an Open House or new listing I had an ad that the owners wanted me to please make sure their dogs were left safely in the yard since they were not to be home and so there was a quip at the bottom of the ad that said - please keep backdoor locked pets in yard. - problem - the Sunday paper had written - please keep backdoor locked people in yard.

ahum - hobos - squatters - hippies - sunbathers - campers - hehehehe - of course it was the fun attention getter and opening exchange for anyone visiting the Open House that day who read the ad - thank goodness it was not serious.

Steph · « **Reply #2695 on:** January 10, 2012, 06:27:49 AM »

As a genealogist, I know that the handcopied data is complicated by the mistakes.. Often it is a translation fault, but not always.

Babi · « **Reply #2696 on:** January 10, 2012, 09:07:50 AM »

For a while I was a proofreader of technical manuals for an aviation plant
in California, PEDLN. We had the same procedure for most of the checking,
two checkers, one reading the original aloud while the other checked the
copy. It worked well, but it did require one to remain alert.

MaryPage · « **Reply #2697 on:** January 10, 2012, 09:34:56 AM »

I am reading THE HIDDEN CHILD by Camilla Lackberg, and finding, as always these days, lots of proof reading errors. I pass these books on, some to a daughter and some to a granddaughter. Granddaughter Paige will get this one. I write and point out and correct the errors right in the book!

For instance, on page 83 of this paperback a sentence starts with a man being present in the room and looking at someone, and hey, that man IS NOT THERE! The story line specifically has him SOMEWHERE ELSE at the time!

Drives me nuts!

And they are constantly changing the color of a person's eyes or hair or their height or age in their hasty writing (not this writer, thank heavens!), and I remember these details and go back and find where they assigned them a different attribute. Again, maddening!

jane · « **Reply #2698 on:** January 10, 2012, 10:54:20 AM »

I agree, MaryPage. It's not creativity; it's pure sloppiness in writing/editing. I've seen writers use a character's name as Tyler through 10 chapters, and then suddenly somewhere in chapter 11, he becomes Taylor. Sloppy/lazy editing/proofing, I think.

Too many seem to rely on spell check and/or don't know the differences among they're/their/there; hear/here; to/too/two; bring/take, etc. Drives me nuts, too!

This is not casual writing as we do here. This is writing as a profession and for financial gain. It should meet a higher standard.

ursamajor · « **Reply #2699 on:** January 10, 2012, 03:21:10 PM »

This is not casual writing as we do here.

This is the most literate board I have ever experienced.

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #2700 on:** January 10, 2012, 03:42:04 PM »

I agree!

mabel1015j · « **Reply #2701 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:05:19 PM »

I started reading Evanovich's Explosive Eighteen and have been laughing outloud everytime i pick it up. Evanovich seems to be coming to the point of resolving the Morelli/Ranger dilemma. Maybe there are only going to be 20 books. I see she's got another non- Stephanie book out. There's a lot of slapstick comedy in this one. You just have to suspend reality, and that's fine w/ me. I need some reality-suspension right now. I'm thoroughly enjoying it in the way i enjoyed the first one.

With the movie One for the Money coming out - it's about 6 months late, or more, that worries me - i've been thinking about the actors playing the parts. I realized that Flip Wilson's "Gearldine" has been the character i've had in mind when hearing and seeing Lulu. LOL Yes, a truly fictional, reality suspended character. I'm curious to see Heigl as Stephanie, i can't put her in the role in my mind.

Have any of you seen it?

Jean

salan · « **Reply #2702 on:** January 10, 2012, 07:40:01 PM »

My late sister in law was a retired school teacher. Our small town newspaper has many, many errors in it and she would take her red pencil to it and mail it to the editor. She never got a response and the errors kept occuring. I guess they just didn't care. Some of her favorites were headlines: Voters Go to the Poles, Hospital Gets New Z-Ray Machine, Local Angles Get Wings and on the wedding announcement page when it referred to the new bird and her groom. Wasn't there a story on tv about 2 brothers who went around correcting all the signs that were printed incorrectly? I kind of like that idea.
Sally

roshanarose · « **Reply #2703 on:** January 10, 2012, 08:02:27 PM »

The misspelling that sent my home town into a titter was in the local paper. The notice proudly proclaimed:

"Brassiere Bistro Now Open at the New
England Hotel"

Steph · « **Reply #2704 on:** January 11, 2012, 05:59:23 AM »

My sons got very upset, because my husband corrected the grammar and punctuation on the notes and other papers sent home by the school. As he said, this is their business, they should get it right.
Evanovich seems to have a new seires with Diesel?? The one I read was centered in New England in Salem, Ma. Fun but really out there.

Geraldine..oh you are so right. That is Lula.. Shows our age.

Babi · « **Reply #2705 on:** January 11, 2012, 08:27:15 AM »

I have to do a lot of reality-suspension in some of the movies we watch.
My daughters get a bit tired of my crying out, "Ah, come on!!" or "No way!"
I really don't know Heigl at all. I checked her career, and it's surprising
how I've managed to miss 99% of her movies.

SALLY, I wonder if the editor left in the errors, because readers loved to
buy the paper and make the corrections. Some of them were so funny, he
may have done it deliberately.

mabel1015j · « **Reply #2706 on:** January 11, 2012, 01:35:16 PM »

FryBabe - can you explain to me why there is often a statement about the "type" used in a book? I never could figure out the reason or the value of their doing that.

Jean

Frybabe · « **Reply #2707 on:** January 11, 2012, 09:06:04 PM »

Jean, I really don't know the answer to that. I like to know what they are using when I see something not quite ordinary, but that is just me. I don't think too many people notice subtle differences in type such as Times, Times Roman or Times Ten Roman, or care. Why a publishing house would feel the need to include it in their frontmatter, I couldn't say. The people most interested in knowing would be other publishers, design houses, typographers, perhaps advertising agencies, and probably a few more I can't think of. What we readers want most it is a type that is very readable without giving us eyestrain. Times Roman is (or was) the most used typeface because it is easy on the eyes. I think Arial takes the prize for ease of online reading.

Note of interest: There must be thousands of typefaces, many of which are proprietary. The printer or publisher must buy what is essentially a license to be able to use them. Many of the typefaces look almost like twins but for maybe a very tiny variation. Some companies, Coca Cola for instance, pay type designers to come up with a special font just for their logo and brand advertising. They become part of the trademark, and/or are listed as a design patent. This gives the company some legal protection from anyone else using that particular typeface. Type designs apparently cannot be copyrighted except in very limited circumstances, like being an integral part of a piece of software.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #2708 on:** January 11, 2012, 10:16:30 PM »

I am wondering if type is not so much what digital image setters’ font choice but rather, a means of printing –

Back in the 70s, I was into block printing, silkscreen printing and just starting to learn lithography and learned there were all sorts of ways a book or paper can be printed. That it is only since the 1990s we have fewer printing types and still many an art book, poetry book and other special books are printed using various ways of Type – Some of the types I know about are the process of offset lithography, phototype, flexographic, rotary letterpress, wood type or art books done with punchcutting or linotype or monotype. Today we know about laser, inkjet, digital. Another part of type would be if the fonts are from FontHaus in Berlin or Fontworks in UK or Corbis in USA.

I wonder if it is included in a book because some printing processes are more expensive and some of the processes use inks that are closer to reality when dry, some are able to get finer lines, and the matrix is finer so that the printed outcome is closer to the work of an artist. Seems to me offset printing uses a four color process therefore, the halftones and lettering with feet are picked up as compared to letter press with only one color at a time.

I would think how a book is printed would have an affect on price and desirability and maybe – again I am not for sure since I was into printing as an art form not to produce posters or books but the older books may have had more variety in how they were printed and a book using languages with various accents, cedilla and diacriticals those marks would be picked up better using certain types of printing.

Steph · « **Reply #2709 on:** January 12, 2012, 06:40:13 AM »

I have thought it was simply a mandate that they must tell you if they use a special type of print..
Yesterday got way too busy.. Then I realized I had actually forgotten a lunch on Monday. Hmm.. and I am usually well organized. I think this commode thing is getting me down. Have decided to go ahead and buy a new one and have it installed.. even though I resent having to buy a new commode at 7 years into the house..
I did not even read anything, but the AARP magazine, which had a good article on Meredith Viera and husband. That is one brave couple.

Frybabe · « **Reply #2710 on:** January 12, 2012, 08:38:43 AM »

Quote

I have thought it was simply a mandate that they must tell you if they use a special type of print..

I don't think so, Steph. At least, I've never run across anything stating that requirement. I just think somewhere along the line someone decided it would be neat to add it for information purposes.

Quote

I am wondering if type is not so much what digital image setters’ font choice but rather, a means of printing

Barb, I occasionally see references about how the book was typeset - most of those have been art books or what they call coffee table books.

Other information things I've seen very occasionally are paper characteristics such as weight, or if the paper is handmade paper, or has unusual inclusions or ingredients. Only two or three times have I seen the publisher include their printer's name in a magazine masthead. Publisher and printer are not necessarily the same entity. When a publisher that prints its own material has more business than its presses can handle, it often subcontracts printing to other printers. That is not something the house with the contract wants publicized. Fry has done such work both as the original contractor and as a subcontracted entity. When subcontracted work came in, anything sent back to the client was devoid of any indication that Fry worked on the project.

Fry is primarily a magazine printer, so they focus on web press and sheet-fed offset printing. There are other companies in the area that concentrate on cards and such that use dye cutting. I know of several that print product packaging including plastics like bread wrappers. Rodale Press had a small screen-printing area (mostly, I think, for in-house use and for Rodale's promotional products) when I worked there over twenty years ago.

Oops, I'm babbling again.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #2711 on:** January 12, 2012, 12:24:28 PM »

No, please babble on - this is interesting - a picture into production that printing is so much a part of our lives that we take it for granted - until you mentioned the bread wrapper it opened my head to realize just how much printing is involved in our everyday products never mind reading material which must be a drop in the bucket...

So much of printing now is computer driven to make templates and impregnate gels but I only know a small part of it - as I say my connection was through art - I am and I bet others are fascinated to learn more about the printing industry so babble on please...

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #2712 on:** January 12, 2012, 12:27:03 PM »

OH yes, do they actually use the expensive hand made rag paper from France? Or are there other makers of rag paper that I am not aware...

rosemarykaye · « **Reply #2713 on:** January 12, 2012, 02:08:24 PM »

There are lots of little shops in Venice selling beautiful paper. I'm not sure what it's made from but it costs a fortune - looks lovely though.

Rosemary

Frybabe · « **Reply #2714 on:** January 12, 2012, 02:27:37 PM »

Interesting question, Barb. I thought there should be plenty of American manufacturers. At least plenty of paper companies sell specialty and cotton rags. While doing some research I found this:
http://www.amazon.com/Paper-Manufacture-United-States-1801-1900/dp/0786458631
Now you just know that I will be getting that for my Kindle. Note the comment from customer Peter Hopkins. His personal knowledge makes the book all the more attractive to me.

Elsewhere, I came up with a company in Ohio that makes rag and fiber pulp for the paper industry. Fine art rag and fiber papers are made all over the world, including Japan, Thailand, France, Spain and Italy. My sister brought back from Costa Rica a diary/journal made of banana fibers. Monadnock Paper Mill claims to be the oldest continuously operating mill in America. Both Crane and Eaton (loved my Eaton watermarked stationary when I was a teen) are in Massachusetts. Wisconsin claims status as the #1 state in paper making. Gladfelter Paper is just down the road from me in York, PA.

Here is a .pdf that shows the process of making rag pulp and paper. It has some info on recycled papers and print trends affected by the growing digital encroachments. http://www.library.jhu.edu/bin/o/c/Scott%20Mingus%20Trends%20in%20Paper%20Manufacturing.pdf

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #2715 on:** January 12, 2012, 02:53:00 PM »

Great links- thanks - the book from Amazon is one to drool over isn't it - Oh and I forgot Crane and Eaton

My head is exploding as I ponder this - just think of all that is made from paper - we bake in paper - we carry groceries in paper - the food, confections, cosmetics is packaged and boxed in paper - paper doilies to decorate the presentation of foods - shoe boxes and boxes large enough to bring home new purchases from the department stores - gifts are wrapped in paper - holiday cards and stationary - money - legal documents - of course the books, posters and water colors as well as other print mediums - heck even shot gun shells are paper wrapped.

here is the link to Crane http://www.crane.com/about-us/crane-company?RPL

I remember reading a novel that takes place in France during the Revolution of glass blowers and glass makers roving through the villages and forests of France I wonder if there are any novels with characters in the paper making or printing trade.

Evidently Venice is knows for its blue paper and paper masks - her is the link about the blue paper
http://cool.conservation-us.org/coolaic/sg/bpg/annual/v12/bp12-02.html

aha - here we go Paolo Olbi a master paper maker in Venice
http://grantourismotravels.com/2010/06/16/paolo-olbi-venice%E2%80%99s-master-of-paper-printing-bookbinding/

maryz · « **Reply #2716 on:** January 12, 2012, 04:23:17 PM »

I'm a water media painter, so paper is very important to me. I've always thought I'd like to take a class in making paper. I have had some lovely hand-made paper that was made out of dryer lint.

Frybabe · « **Reply #2717 on:** January 12, 2012, 06:03:07 PM »

Well, I know Murder She Wrote had an episode involving publishers. There have been several movies focused on newspaper publishers and reporters. But novels? I can't think of any. There must be some somewhere. My quick Google search hasn't come up with anything yet.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #2718 on:** January 12, 2012, 06:37:46 PM »

Think I found a few - the last one for me has promise and the one called Cellophane sounds like fun...even the first one sounds like an adventure that rivals the best of them.

http://www.amazon.com/Printers-Devil-Paul-Coulter/dp/1456336932/ref=sr_1_16?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326409808&sr=1-16

The Printer's Devil –
Set in New York’s notoriously corrupt Tammany Hall era following the Civil War, The Printer's Devil follows Ambrose Kelly, a type-setter for The Tribune. Ambrose believes his wife and son were killed because of his side trade in acquiring old books for wealthy patrons. Horace Greeley sends him to the Ottoman Empire as a correspondent, enabling Ambrose to track Vandermeer from Constantinople to a Georgian monastery to the Caspian to Cairo and Luxor and Abyssinia in a deadly race to find the gospel first.

http://www.amazon.com/Printers-Devil-American-Publishing-Revolution/dp/0520247590/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326409089&sr=1-9

Printer's Devil: Mark Twain and the American Publishing Revolution -
Trained as a printer when still a boy, and thrilled throughout his life by the automation of printing and the headlong expansion of American publishing, Mark Twain wrote about the consequences of this revolution for culture and for personal identity. Printer's Devil is the first book to explore these themes in some of Mark Twain's best-known literary works

http://www.amazon.com/Cellophane-Marie-Arana/dp/0385336659/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326408896&sr=1-1

Cellophane
Don Victor Sobrevilla, a lovable, eccentric engineer, always dreamed of founding a paper factory in the heart of the Peruvian rain forest, and at the opening of this miraculous novel his dream has come true—until he discovers the recipe for cellophane

http://www.amazon.com/Watermark-Novel-Middle-Vanitha-Sankaran/dp/B004IK9DZ6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326408682&sr=8-1

Watermark: A Novel of the Middle Ages -
The daughter of a papermaker in a small French village in the year 1320—mute from birth and forced to shun normal society—young Auda finds solace and escape in the wonder of the written word. Believed to be cursed by those who embrace ignorance and superstition, Auda's very survival is a testament to the strength of her spirit. But this is an age of Inquisition and intolerance, when difference and defiance are punishable "sins" and new ideas are considered damnable heresy.

Steph · « **Reply #2719 on:** January 13, 2012, 06:12:53 AM »

For some reason, I think that John Campbell folk school does some things that involve handmade paper and handmade books...
I used to love good stationery, but no longer keep anything but notes.. Those I get from museums and love them for Thank yous or a personal note for some reason. I rarely write whole letters.. email for me is so much easier..Somehow it feels more like a conversation. My older son was once a great letter writer. I loved getting letters from him since they sounded exactly like he was talking to me.. I think that is a gift..

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Author Topic: Fiction ~ Old ~ New ~ Best Sellers #2 (Read 776215 times)