Author Topic: Kim by Rudyard Kipling ~ January Book Club Online - Pre-discussion (Read 28827 times)

BooksAdmin · « **on:** November 23, 2009, 01:19:33 AM »

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Kim

by
Rudyard Kipling

You may have read "Kim" as a young
adult, but it's a whole different book
for grown-ups. Join us on January 1
to find out why "Kim" has been beloved
by young and old for over 100 years.

He sat, in defiance of municipal orders, astride the gun Zam-Zammah on her brick platform
opposite the old Ajaib-Gher--the Wonder House, as the natives call the Lahore museum.

DIscussion Leaders: JoanK & PatH

Online Texts of Kim

Project Gutenberg ~ The Literature Network ~ Read Books Online

PatH · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2009, 12:58:14 PM »

Welcome to our discussion of "Kim". We won't really get started until January 1, but come in, say hello, tell us you're with us, and chat if you like, or share some Indian snacks.

I've loved this book all my life, and I think it has a lot to offer--colorful, exotic setting, adventure and intrigue, and the unlikely affection of a boy and a Lama.

JoanK · « **Reply #2 on:** November 23, 2009, 05:50:30 PM »

I'm also one who read "Kim" as a child, and loved it, picturing myself sitting on the gun Zam-Zammah above. But I haven't read it since. Now I'm ready to look at the book as an adult. Come and wander with us through the sights and sounds of India and meet it's various people. I can smell the spices already. Join us now, so we know how many tickets to buy on the trans-India railway. I'll get the food ready.

What DO people eat for snacks in India?

ANNIE · « **Reply #3 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:43:35 AM »

I hate to admit it, but I have never read "Kim" but will try to do so now. I am listening to a book about Sherlock Holmes and his wife, Mary Russell. They are in India searching for Kim as he was a friend of Holmes many years before. The author has cast him as a monk who has joined a Dahli Lama's group in Tibet in the '20's. He is also a spy for the British CIA. Yes, its another Laurie King book and great fun to read.

salan · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2009, 07:23:31 AM »

Yes, please reserve me a ticket on the trans-India railway--first class by all means!!
I haven't read Kim since I was in high school-umpteen years ago. I am really looking forward to this discussion. Meanwhile, I hope to hear from you at the Holiday Open House.
Sally

kidsal · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2009, 11:26:51 AM »

Have never read the book but am prepared with a used - very worn - paperback from Amazon.

JoanK · « **Reply #6 on:** December 01, 2009, 05:42:23 PM »

Hi, ANNIE, SALEN, and KIDSAL. Our leader, PatH, is winging her way today back to Maryland from visiting me in California, but will be here tomorrow (we had a great time). But I'm here, excited about our journy. The train doesn't leave the station til January, but find a seat.

I've just started to reread the book, and am enjoying it even more than I expected. If any of you haven't got the book, you might want to pick up one with footnotes. Kipling throws in names of places and people, assuming you know what/where they are. Most of the time, it doesn't matter whether you do or not-- he does it to give a sense of the wide variety of people and places that Kim meets every place in India. But be sure to tell us if you want any of them tracked down.

We are looking for a good map of India to put in the heading. And I still haven't found a good Indian snack to eat on the journey. I'm going to avoid betal nuts!

JoanP · « **Reply #7 on:** December 01, 2009, 05:57:01 PM »

I'm with you, JoanK! Betel nuts stain the teeth something fierce, so I've heard! All I know to snack on is naan. Naan is good, but something to go with it is needed...

Count me in this discussion - but I can't get in until 1/5. This is a hectic time of year. Surely I've read Kim, but right now I just remember Rikki-Tikki-Tavi.

Here's a map - large, but could be reduced. Or you might want to put a small clickable map that will lead you to this larger one in the heading?

JoanK · « **Reply #8 on:** December 01, 2009, 06:01:16 PM »

JoanP: your welcom whenever you can come. We'll all be busy at the turn of the year, so won't have gotten far by the 5th.

Good map of India! Yes definately a link in the heading to a larger map -- we'll want to read the names of the sections. I'll check whether Pat has one she wants to use first.

Note:You saved me!! We were doing Saturday's crossword puzzle, and one clue was part of "The Jungle Book" I thought it was "Rikki=Tikki-Tavi, but it didn't fit. I'd forgotten it had double kks!

SALLY: see you in Holiday Open House. Maybe we can find a good Indian snack. KIDSAL: I love those worn old books from my past.

ANNIE: I love those Laurie Child books narrated by Mrs. Sherlock Holmes. If you wonder who could possibly stand to be married to him, I think Child got it right. The first in the series is "The Beekeepers Daughter". What is the name of the one about Kim?

marcie · « **Reply #9 on:** December 01, 2009, 09:17:57 PM »

I don't remember if I ever read Kim when I was younger but will definitely join you all in January. I am looking forward to reading and discussing it with this good group.

JoanK · « **Reply #10 on:** December 01, 2009, 09:53:18 PM »

great.

PatH · « **Reply #11 on:** December 01, 2009, 10:08:11 PM »

Wow! Off to a great start. Annie, Sally, Kidsal, JoanP, Marcie, and the fearless leaders. Welcome, all. I agree with JoanK that a book with notes is a good idea, though not necessary. It's also available online. I'll post links soon. And for anyone wanting to use a library book. I'm guessing there will be no waiting list.

Pat · « **Reply #12 on:** December 02, 2009, 10:40:56 AM »

Online text of Kim is available from anyone of the 3 links in the heading above.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #13 on:** December 02, 2009, 12:49:43 PM »

Kipling is one of my favorites for telling stories so I'll be happy to reread Kim and share the discussion.

PatH · « **Reply #14 on:** December 02, 2009, 01:29:16 PM »

That's great, Jackie, I'm looking forward to seeing you. IMHO, the book can stand a lot of rereading.

Frybabe · « **Reply #15 on:** December 02, 2009, 11:10:25 PM »

I'm here! Haven't read Kim, nor do I remember actually reading any Kipling except Rikki-Tikki-Tavi. I did see the movie when I was a youngster. It is hard to believe that Dean Stockwell (who played Kim) was acting before I was born. He has a very long list of acting credits to his name.

JoanP · « **Reply #16 on:** December 02, 2009, 11:39:03 PM »

When was Kim published - I'll guess 100 years ago? Or more? I'm thinking the configuration of that map has changed since then. Maybe we need to find an older map than the one I found. What do you think?

PatH · « **Reply #17 on:** December 03, 2009, 12:15:16 AM »

JoanP, you're absolutely right. Kim was published in 1901, and some of it takes place in what is now Pakistan. I'm on the trail for a suitable map.

PatH · « **Reply #18 on:** December 03, 2009, 12:26:32 AM »

Frybabe, I'm glad to see you.

It's interesting that people remember "Rikki Tikki Tavi" but don't remember "The Jungle Book", of which it is a part. Have any of you read "The Jungle Book" or "Just So Stories"?

mrssherlock · « **Reply #19 on:** December 03, 2009, 12:24:38 PM »

I've read most if not all of Kipling, both prose and poetry. Did I say that I like his stories?

salan · « **Reply #20 on:** December 03, 2009, 06:14:24 PM »

I have read most of Kipling's books and stories, but it's been a long time. I am looking forward to our session on Kim.
I have been trying to find recipes for Indian snack foods. I haven't eaten much Indian food and I live in a small town and probably can not find some of the spices that the recipes call for. Does anyone have favorite Indian foods or recipes? I am always up for new things!
Sally

JoanK · « **Reply #21 on:** December 03, 2009, 08:38:20 PM »

WELCOME, SALEN, hop on board. So far, no one's come up with any foods, but don't worry -- we'll find something really good.

Jonathan · « **Reply #22 on:** December 03, 2009, 09:27:19 PM »

Quote: "So far, no one's come up with any foods, but don't worry -- we'll find something really good.'

We could always send Kim out for something. Just look what he brings back for the hungry lama, in the lama's begging bowl.

JoanK · « **Reply #23 on:** December 03, 2009, 09:54:38 PM »

Good idea, Jonathan! Are you with us?

ALF43 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 04, 2009, 12:03:43 AM »

Chana Masala is chickpeas (garbanzo beans), commonly known as Kabuli chana in masala gravy curry sauce. It is staple throughout India but very popular among Punjabi dhaba food. It is also known as chole.

For thicker chana masala gravy, add few pieces/tablespoon of boiled/mashed potatoes.For eaeier chana masala recpie, if do not have access to some of the spice, make chana masala without them.

Ingredients
2 cups cooked chickpeas or canned chickpeas
¾ cup onions (chopped)
2/3 cup tomatoes (chopped)
1 teaspoon garam masala or chana masala
1 teaspoon garlic
½ teaspoon ginger
1 tablespoon oil
Salt to taste

Optional
½ teaspoon cardamom (if not using chana masala)
1 teaspoon amchur (if not using chana masala)
1 pinch of hing
½ teaspoon hot red chili powder (according to taste)
2 bay leaves
1 medium boiled potato (diced)

Garnish
Few leaves fresh cilantro leaves (chopped)

Anybody interested?

PatH · « **Reply #25 on:** December 04, 2009, 09:50:51 AM »

Yes, Alf, I'm very interested, but I'd like a few details about cooking. I'm guessing that you make the sauce by cooking the onions and garlic in the oil, then adding the tomatoes and spices. Is that right, or am I going to eat a teaspoon of raw garlic? Fortunately I have no social plans for the next two days.

Some translations: garam masala is a mixture of spices. I get mine from Penzeys, and the ingredients are coriander, black pepper, cardamom,cinnamon, charnushka, caraway, cloves, ginger, and nutmeg. There are many recipes, and you could leave out whatever you don't have. It's sweet, not hot. Amchur is mango powder, which has a sour taste, and you can substitute lemon juice. Hing is asafoetida. It has a very foul odor, but when you sizzle a pinch of it in the oil before adding the onions and garlic, it turns mild and adds a pleasant taste. I can't imagine any substitute, but it's optional.

Jonathan · « **Reply #26 on:** December 04, 2009, 05:57:06 PM »

Sure, Joan. I'd like to tag along when you hit the Grand Trunk Road with KIM. The book made a great impression on me so many years ago. Rereading the book would be the stuff of great nostalgia, as well as being very contemporary with the Great Game still being played.

PatH · « **Reply #27 on:** December 04, 2009, 06:09:58 PM »

I'm glad, Jonathan; I don't think you'll regret it.

serenesheila · « **Reply #28 on:** December 04, 2009, 10:36:23 PM »

I 've never read "Kim", and I am looking forward to our discussion. I hope it is a more upbeat book, than the last discussion book I read. I am ready for a good, happy novel.

Sheila

Babi · « **Reply #29 on:** December 05, 2009, 08:35:55 AM »

What fun, ANNIE! What is the title of the Laurie King book?

Of course I'm coming along. I'm looking forward to reading
KIM with older eyes. (Old age is respected in India, right?)
It does look like we have a terrific group of participants. I'm
really looking forward to this.

PatH · « **Reply #30 on:** December 05, 2009, 09:31:20 AM »

Welcome, Shiela and Babi!

Yes, with the group we've got, it's going to be great.

straudetwo · « **Reply #31 on:** December 05, 2009, 01:05:21 PM »

With all the friends already assembled here, this will be a great discussion. I am so glad I found the book among my treasures. The hardcover is by MacMillan and Company of Canada Limited but does not list the year of publication. The font is wonderfully easy to read, an important factor for me, because my vision is deteriorating at an alarming rate.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #32 on:** December 05, 2009, 01:45:48 PM »

Hi JoanK and Pat! I'll be here I hope. And I hope I will no longer be in a rehab center by then but home and driving to the Library. However, I see the text is online so I can follow along.

DO YOU ALL SEE PAKISTAN AND AFGHANISTAN ON THAT MAP? DID ANYONE EVER ENVISION HOW INVOLVED WE WOULD BE IN THE REGION?

A few years ago we discussed Ghandi's autobiography, a great discussion and I remember his (Ghandi's) efforts to save Pakistan from becoming independent.

Thanks you two for bringing this book discussion to all of us, I am looking forward to it!

JoanK · « **Reply #33 on:** December 05, 2009, 02:55:19 PM »

ELLA: I too remember that. I wonder how different would the history of the regeon have been if he had succeeded.

But now we go back before all that happened. Those of you who were in the Raj discussion will know much more about that period than I do.

straudetwo · « **Reply #34 on:** December 05, 2009, 08:01:17 PM »

Ella, I 'm so glad you are healing. My old school friend in Germany also took a fall and suffered an open fracture. She spent three months in the hospital and in rehab clinics. She's been home only two weeks.

When Kipling wrote Kim, published in 1900, the British Empire was at its height. Two world wars exhausted the British. Tensions between the Hindu majority and the Muslim minority had been festering for decades. Gandhi wanted independence for the entire Indian subcontinent but was unable to prevent the Partition of the nation, based on religious demographics.

The partition was promulgated in the Indian Independence Act 1947 and became effective on August 14 and 15, respectively, 1947 under the last British Viceroy, Lord Louis Mountbatten. Two sovereign states were formed, the Dominion of Pakistan (later Islamic Republic of Pakistan) and the Union of India (later Republic of India).

The partition included the geographical division of the Bengal province and the Punjab region, parts of which were allotted to Pakistan. A massive migration began amid violence and bloodshed, more than 12 million people were displaced and estimates of those killed range from several hundred thousand to a million.

The rulers of the Princely States had hoped to retain a modicum of independence but had to choose to accede to one or the other of the new dominions. The period between 1942 and 11947 is the subject of Paul Scott's The Raj Quartet we recently completed. The tetralogy is a masterpiece and a a heart breaker.

PatH · « **Reply #35 on:** December 05, 2009, 10:09:30 PM »

Traude and Ella, welcome! You will both add a lot. You can enjoy this book without knowing the history, but it's much better if you do, and I hope we'll get into that somewhat.

JoanK · « **Reply #36 on:** December 06, 2009, 04:52:46 PM »

I didn't spend nearly that long in hospitel and rehab -- can't remember exactly, but less than a month.

My ignorance: of couse "The Raj Quartet" doesn't cover the period of Kim: that was much earlier. I'll be learning along with you.

straudetwo · « **Reply #37 on:** December 06, 2009, 07:30:05 PM »

JoanK, forgive me, but I don't think we need to be concerned with what happened after WW II.
Let's just enjoy Kim and learn from it what that time in history was like - the glory days of the British Empire.

Jonathan · « **Reply #38 on:** December 07, 2009, 10:05:16 PM »

What a fine group coming together to read KIM.

I'm of the opinion that one doesn't need much, if any, background reading to enjoy this book. Unless one also feels that some background reading would enhance ones reading of something like Huckleberry Finn. I dug out an old video of KIM, with Dean Stockwell, and it was fun to watch.

So what am I reading? TOURNAMENT OF SHADOWS, by Meyer and Brysac. Its subtitle is The Great Game and the Race for Empire in Central Asia. This is interesting. KIM gets six entries in the index. Kipling is cited a dozen times. So, perhaps KIM would serve as background reading for an appreciation of The Great Game, among other things.

Sure enough. The authors suggest as much in their prologue. It seems that Allen Dulles, fresh out of Princeton, set sail for India in 1914 to take up a teaching position at a missionary college. On board, 'Dulles read Kipling's KIM for the first time. Dulles went on to a career in intelligence, serving as Director of Central Intelligence in the 50s and 60s. And 'the novel was at Dulles's bedside when he died in 1969.'

Now then. What novel would you like to leave bedside, when you find your river of enlightenment?

mrssherlock · « **Reply #39 on:** December 07, 2009, 11:58:40 PM »

Tournament of Shadows is on my list. Thanks, Jonathan.

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Author Topic: Kim by Rudyard Kipling ~ January Book Club Online - Pre-discussion (Read 28827 times)