Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society - by Shaffer & Barrows

[kiwilady]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome to join in.

The year is 1946.  Juliet Aston, a writer looking for her next book subject, finds herself "gloomier than she ever was during the war."  Quite out of the blue she finds her subject, one  that will change her life, with the arrival of a letter from a member of a book club in Guernsey, a British Channel island occupied by the Nazis during the war.

Discussion Schedule: Feb. 1-7   *Letters -- January 8, 1946 - March 1, 1946 Feb. 8-14    *Letters -- March 2, 1946 - May 13, 1946 Feb. 15-21   *Letters -- May 14, 1946 - July 15, 1946 Feb. 22-28     *Letters -- July 17, 1946 - Sept. 17, 1946

Feb. 8-14    Letters -- March 2, 1946 - May 13, 1946

 1.  How do you envision the  Literary Society meetings now that we are hearing from more members?  How has the Literary Society grown from the original six?   Which members do you find interesting?
2.  "I did not want to spend my time reading about  people who never was, doing things they never did." (Clovis Fossey) Do you know people who feel this way about fiction?  How did the busy farmer  become interested in poetry?   When was the last time you  memorized a poem?
3.  Why is Adelaide Addison so intent on putting an end to Juliet's correspondance with the literary society especially now that Elizabeth McKenna is no longer on the island?
4.  How is Juliet's correspondance with the Guernsey Literary Society affecting her relationship with Mark?    Do you sense that Sidney is more than just a big brother friend?  (Who is Piers?)
5.  Why would the Islander girls and Dawsey Adams fraternize with German soldiers?  How do they communicate?  What did they have in common?
6. To whom does the Jewish John Booker owe his survival during the occupation?   What drew him to the  the letters of Seneca?
7.  What gruesome information does Juliet's research reveal about events and conditions on the islands during the occupation?  Why does she decide she must go to Guernsey? 
8. Will you share your underlining, your notes on this week's letters; what surprised you, riled you, or tickled your fancy?

Related Links: Author's Biography; Visit Guernsey ;   A history of Guernsey during the German Occupation 1940 - 1941 ; Charles Lamb - Selected Essays ; the letters of Seneca

Discussion Leaders:  JoanP and Pedln

I have also seen the movie "Enchanted April". I had the feeling as I watched the movie the characters were not British although nowhere in the movie did it indicate this. It seemed like it was written by a European writer not a British author. Did Elizabeth live in England?

[bellamarie]

JoanP,

What do their reading choices reveal about the personalities of the members of the Society?  What do your own choices  reveal about you?

Oh dear, my choices would reveal, I am pretty much open to anything.  I have tons of books, they range from Princess Di, The Kennedy's, Clintons, many published after the O.J. trial, Poetry, a zillion children's books, religious books, romance, mystery, Liberal, Conservative and Independent writers.  I have fiction and non fiction, but I must say one of my very most favorite books I cherish is, Let's Roll by Lisa Beamer (the wife of Todd Beamer who died in the plane taken over by terrorists on 911.)  This book will stay with me forever.  This couple was more amazing then I could imagine.  The lives they led and how they met, and the way they lived their lives up to this devastating day, is an inspiration and testament to all who have faith or lack of.  I found this from Charles Morley's, The Haunted Bookshop which fits nicely here:
"I tell you, books are the depositories of the human spirit, which is the only thing in this world that endures. What was it Shakespeare said--

    Not marble nor the gilded monuments
    Of princes shall outlive this powerful rhyme-- "

The books missing from my collection, I am sad to admit, are classics which I intend to rectify.

I like this particular perscription that is in Charles Morley's essay,
The Haunted Bookshop, it is hanging on a bulletin board in his second hand bookshop for customers who have no idea what they are looking for. 

RX

If your mind needs phosphorus, try "Trivia," by Logan Pearsall Smith.

If your mind needs a whiff of strong air, blue and cleansing, from hilltops and primrose valleys, try "The Story of My Heart," by Richard Jefferies.

If your mind needs a tonic of iron and wine, and a thorough rough-and-tumbling, try Samuel Butler's "Notebooks" or "The Man Who Was Thursday," by Chesterton.

If you need "all manner of Irish," and a relapse into irresponsible freakishness, try "The Demi-Gods," by James Stephens. It is a better book than one deserves or expects.

It's a good thing to turn your mind upside down now and then, like an hourglass, to let the particles run the other way.

One who loves the English tongue can have a lot of fun with a Latin dictionary. "

I feel classics are my prescription needed, to turn my hourglass upside down.

[Babi]

   Mary Ann Shaffer was a librarian, which would explain her extensive familiarity
 with books of all kinds. The cover of the book had a photograph of Mary Ann and her niece Anne Barrows. Looking at that photo, I found myself wondering if Mary Ann was describing her niece in the charater of Juliet. Physically, Ann looks much the same age and appearance as Juliet.

JOAN, I suspect 'sergeant-at-arms' was not a formal title in the literary society, I suspect it simply reflects Isola's spunky nature.

(JOANR, I'm so glad mine isn't the only house that accumulates debris. Apace, yet!)

MABEL, you are quite right.  Remember that Guernsey was the property of the Norman William the Conqueror, and the people there spoke the Norman French tongue. Up until around WWII, many of the native islanders continued to speak French, or so I understand.

BELLAMARIE, thanks for the information about "Let's Roll".  It seems the book is much more than I thought it would be; I'm definitely interested in reading it now. And what a lovely RX. I wrote that 'medicine' down for futher reference. (Whatever does phosphorus do for the mind, I wonder?)

As for what my reading would reflect about me, I suspect it would reveal that I prefer where the good guys win, whether triumphing in fact, or in spirit. I get enough of the opposite outcome in the daily news!

[JoanP]

Good morning, Chicks!

It occurs to me that we are feeling just like the members of the literay society - as a whole new worlds open up -right between the pages of a book! JoanR, I know what you mean - we are being pulled in so many directions- I hope everyone is enjoying it as much as I am.  I'm wondering if this is how the members of the literary society felt.  I can see where it would have taken their minds off the war.

I read Eben Ramsey's first letter to Juliet last evening - His family trade was carving tombstones.  He was a fisherman who had spent little time reading.  It was Elizabeth who introduced him to Shakespeare.  He felt that Shakespeare was writing for people like himself. There was one line that stuck with him through hard times...a line he hoped Elizabeth kept in mind while in prison - I wonder what it means to you - how do you interpret it?

"The bright day is done, and we are for the dark."

Pedln, I can hardly believe that you found  Enchanted April right on your own bookshelf?  Do you have any idea how long it was sitting there?  Will you have some time to read it during the coming weeks?  And tell about it at our next meeting?  You and Carolyn can do a books into movies report? 

Carolyn,  thank you for turning to the new page this morning. I remember reading that Elizabeth was born in London.  Her mother was the housekeeper for man (Sir Ambrose), who summered in Guernsey.  Elizabeth and her mother spent summers with him.  When he died, Elizabeth came to close up his summer estate and was still there at the start of the war.

Bellamarie, thank you for your thoughtful response to the question of reading choices.  I have to ask you, are you a Gemini?  You and I sound so much alike -  I love Christopher Morley's perscription.  I am adding his titles to my list.

Babi,  I enjoyed hearing your reasoning for your book choices.  I'll bet that extends to movies too.  Do you know, does anyone know at what point Annie Barrows took up the task of finishing Mary Ann Shaffer's book?  Was she more than an editor?  I know that she is a writer herself - she could have added more to the story than MA Shaffer had planned.

[JoanR]

I suppose my books show that I am interested in a lot of very different things (I trust not scatterbrained!)  I have a house full of such a variety - most of the classics,  some mysteries and sci-fi, a collection of children’s and young adult books that are good for all ages, e.g. “The Mouse and His Child,  Alice in Wonderland, the Pullman trilogy, Kim, the Jungle Books and others.
 I have one bookcase full of books on books, and books on language.  I love aphorisms and have some books of them.  I have all of Michael Dirda’s books - they are chock full of good ideas on what to read - I just revere him and miss his book chat. I now also have been acquiring books on ancient history - fiction and non-fiction.
  At my age I can’t plan on re-reading everything which is why I have very little current fiction. Those books I borrow from our wonderful library.  I am constantly being tempted by so much out there!!!

[bellamarie]

Babi,

Mary Ann Shaffer was a librarian, which would explain her extensive familiarity with books of all kinds.

Oh dear, thank you Babi for reminding me, sometimes I wonder where my memory has gone.  LOL  Very interesting point about Mary Ann using Annie as her possible model for Juliet.  I promise, you will love the book, Let's Roll

JoanP, I can assure you, I have never had so much fun!  And actually, I am a Leo.   

Just another part I want to share with all of you from The Haunted Bookshop, that I feel you will enjoy.

"If you are really interested in bookselling you should come here some evening to a meeting of the Corn Cob Club. Once a month a number of booksellers gather here and we discuss matters of bookish concern over corn-cobs and cider. We have all sorts and conditions of booksellers: one is a fanatic on the subject of libraries. He thinks that every public library should be dynamited. Another thinks that moving pictures will destroy the book trade. What rot! Surely everything that arouses people's minds, that makes them alert and questioning, increases their appetite for books." 

"Corn Cob Club" hmm.... "Potato Peel Pie", is it possible Mary Ann got the idea from Morley?  And so, here we are, "The SeniorLearn Society."

JoanR,

I suppose my books show that I am interested in a lot of very different things (I trust not scatterbrained!)

I fear not scatterbrained at all, or I would have to be too.  I think more like Morley states, [i]"Surely everything that arouses people's minds, that makes them alert and questioning, increases their appetite for books." [/i] 


Okay, I am off for the day.  I have a fundraiser to attend for a 3 yr. old little girl with a tumor on her lung.  We hope to raise tons of money to help her.

[Steph]

Got the book and read the first weeks.. Must confess that I feel like the village idiot or something. I have read Lamb and Seneca, but am more interested at this point in the development of the character. I am so so about Juliet, but love Isola Pribby.. I mean who wouldnt.. " Men are more interesting in books and they are in real life" and "Reading goodbooks ruins you for enjoying bad books".. Now thats the kind of person I would love to know in real life.. A good mind and lots of opinions..

[pedln]

Alas, JoanP, I don’t think I’ll have time to turn to Enchanted April any time soon.  Too many other scheduled books, both here and locally. Not to mention all the other things one want to read just because.  Now tell me please, it that a good thing or a bad thing?   But Carolyn made an interesting point about it, that she didn’t think it was written by a Britsh woman.  Perhaps she and Marj can let you know more.

As for Eben’s quote from Shakespeare – the bright day is done and we are for the dark.  It could go two ways.  My first thought was –  the day is over and behind us and now it’s time to rest.  But my second thought, and what I think Eben meant,  we’ve had bright good times, but we’ve had dark bad times before;  we’ll get over this and bright days will come again.

Steph, I’m so glad your book arrived  and I hope you are enjoying it as much as most of here are, and that we haven’t led you astray  with all our raves.  [I just now saw your post; we’re in agreement on Isola]

Bellamarie, I’m looking at your RX from Morley, and of course immediately pounce on “One who loves the English tongue can have a lot of fun with a Latin dictionary.”  But the hourglass comment is a worthy one.  Try something different he says.  I don’t like weird, was on the ‘not’ side for 100 years of solitude.

I’ve read Isola’s first letter to Juliet I don’t know how many times, and I always feel  a bit guilty.  Poor Isola, couldn’t even keep her notes on Charlotte and Emily because she had no other paper in the house, and had to burn them to kindle a fire. And I’ve just been throwing those little squares from my Sudoku calendar from 08 away.  What a waste.  The back sides are perfectly good for notes.  But Isola will brighten anyone’s day, and will most likely tell you anything.  She reminds me of the Queen in Uncommon Reader, who found reading certain books became easier and easier. And Isola is much the same when she says ‘reading good books ruins  you for reading bad ones.’

[This has been a done piecemeal as the electrician’s been here most of the morning, and the power off, but light is again in the office.]

I’ve always considered myself a bit of a lightweight in my reading.  Certainly, I want my books to absorb me, I want to get lost in them.  Bellamarie, Let’s Roll sounds like that kind of a book.  Is it?

[JudeS]

Joan P.
Re:Eben Ramsey's letter where he writes that he feels that Shakespeare was writing for people like him.

When I was in London with Elderhostel we visited  Shakespeare's theater "The Globe". and had an interesting lecture on its history and why Shakespeare designed it like he did. The first and second tier were for "gentle folk' , while the third or topmost tier was for prostitutes to make their  "assignations".The area , which we today call the orchestra was for poor people who paid a Penny or a Ha'penny to see the show. Shakespeare was the first European playwright  who insisted that poor, working people would enjoy the show as much as wealthy ones.  And they did. They attended his play in droves.  He also insisted that the Theater be built in an area which would be accessible to the masses.

Obviously the authors were aware of this history and so gave the ring of truth to Eben Ramsey's words.

Jude

[bellamarie]

pedln, It is one of my all time favorite books I have read.  I must say, it has stayed with me since.  Rarely, has a book affected me like
Let's Roll.  Lisa Beamer is a woman I can only hope, to strive to be. 

Steph, I am so glad you have your book.  I can see you are hooked already. 

Off to my fundrasier.  Check back later.

[straudetwo]

My apologies for not having been able to keep up with the discussion. The severe winter weather has been crippling for arthritis sufferers - and I am one of them. Will try to catch up as fast as I can.

[Janice]

I probably won't be able to contribute to  this discussion as I'm still only number nine on the library list.  I did, however, appreciate the link to the book at the Gutenburg Project web site and I will be able to read that.  I had forgotten about the Project.  I used to proof read for them before my grandchildren moved in with me.
I will still read this book as its so interesting.

[Gumtree]

Regarding Elizabeth von Arnim's nationality and the comment that maybe she was not British.  - she was born at  Kirribilli in Sydney Australia as Mary Annette Beauchamp. There were also family connections in New Zealand - a cousin was the writer Katherine Mansfield. The family left Aust when she was a child and lived in Switzerland - so her upbringing was essentially European - She married a German, Count Henning August Von Arnim (The Man of Wrath). They lived initially in Berlin and then moved to the estate in Pomerania which was the locale for her German Garden book - after divorce she lived in England - there were subsequent marriages, divorces and affaires.

[Gumtree]

As for Eben’s quote from Shakespeare – the bright day is done and we are for the dark.  It could go two ways.  My first thought was –  the day is over and behind us and now it’s time to rest.  But my second thought, and what I think Eben meant,  we’ve had bright good times, but we’ve had dark bad times before;  we’ll get over this and bright days will come again.

Yes, Pedln I agree with your second thought. Eben wrote to Juliet that after the Germans came he thought,

Damn them, Damn them, .... If I could have thought the words 'the bright day is done, and we are for the dark' I'd have been consoled somehow and ready to go out and contend with circumstance instead of my heart sinking to my boots

 Eben tells us a lot about the German occupation in this letter but we learn even more about Eben himself and his strengths. He is a man who knows himself for what he is... and how poignant is this:

My grandson Eli was evacuated to England when he was seven. He is home now - twelve years old, and tall - but I will never forgive the Germans for making me miss his childhood.

Eli was one of several thousand children evacuated from Guernsey alone whose loved ones missed their childhood and who themselves missed growing up in the midst of their families. And they were the lucky ones who survived the horror.

[Gumtree]

Now just what do my bookshelves say about me - emphatically,  that I prefer reading to dusting and tidying shelves.
I have a range of areas of interest - ancient and medieval classics and their associated history, drama, classic fiction from just about everywhere and every period but especially 19th century British and European, the Victorian period and its aftermath, 20th Century stuff and contemporary fiction...I like Australiana, literature about horticulture and gardening but not about cooking, and about crafts but not about home improvements - I've history, biography but not much politics.... I don't have some genres -most mystery, romance, sci-fi, and fantasy leave me cold - but there are always exceptions...So what does that say?  that I don't know exactly what I like? or alternatively that I like it all - or most of it?   What I do know is that I am still hungry for the next book.




Bellamarie I knew it! I just knew it! I'm a Leo too! 

[bellamarie]

JoanP,

Do you know, does anyone know at what point Annie Barrows took up the task of finishing Mary Ann Shaffer's book?  Was she more than an editor?  I know that she is a writer herself - she could have added more to the story than MA Shaffer had planned.

I read many interviews Annie did on this book and this seems to answer you question.

Q: At what point in the writing process were you brought in to collaborate?

A: In the summer of 2006, soon after The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society had been sold to Dial Press, Mary Ann's health began to fail. We kept hoping that she would feel better soon, but by the end of the summer, it was clear that the prospect of making the editorial changes on the book was going to be too much for her, and at that point, my cousin Liz called me to ask if I would take on the project. Of course, I said yes. Unlike plumbers or nurses or teachers, writers don't have very many opportunities to be useful to the people they love, and I was honored to be able to help my aunt.

http://www.litlovers.com/interview_guernsey_literary_potato_peel.html

I read in a few other interviews, Annie did the revising and editing.  Since we have no idea what the publishers would have wanted revised or edited, it would be difficult to know exactly what Annie's part was.  In all her interviews, she does say the book was finished and sent to the publisher, and she was called in to do the revising and editing, since she was a writer in the family.

Oh my heavens, don't tell me I just saw Gumtree, our tooth fairy flitter by me, yet again.  lolol  A Leo indeed, I would have guessed it!   Good night, my friend, sleep tight.  zzzzzz

[Steph]

I had wondered the same thing about Mary Ann and her niece.. Editing can change quite a lot of things in the book.
I will venture onto the second weeks supply today. Since I love Shakespeare, I quite agree with Eben.. He meant to have everyone understand what he was trying to say.
I hope for lots more Isola... And like everyone else worry about Elizabeth

[Babi]

Annie Barrows stepped in when Mary Ann Shaffer became too ill to go on. Somewhere I read that she not only acted as editor, but also 'fleshed out' the book. So some of what we read is her contribution.

On the letter from Eban to Juliet :  The letter describing Eli’s return home really moved me.  “I don’t think I could have left off hugging him, if Isola hadn’t pushed me a bit so she could hug him herself.”  I can empathize with that so well.''

  Will Thisbe to Juliet:  “I am an antiquarian ironmonger, though it pleases some to call me a rag-and-bone man.”   My eyes are opened!  I will never regard the modern equivalent of a ‘rag-and-bone’ man in the same light again.  For all I know, I’m looking at an antiquarian ironmonger!

[Babi]

I forgot I wanted to post a couple of excerpts from the book on/by Seneca.

  I was disappointed to learn that Seneca did not always live up to his own standards, but then realized that Stoics do recognize prudence and necessity.
Due to his association with Nero and all that family, simple survival meant doing some things that were contrary to Seneca's beliefs.  I thought this quote from his essay on 'Tranquility' hinted at his predicament. : "...you will realize how much less troubled you are with self-depreciation than individuals who are manacled to some specious profession and weighed down by some grandiloquent title and enact their role out of shame rather than choice."

  I was surprised and intrigued by Seneca's background.  From the 'Introduction'
by translator Moses Hadas:  "He belonged to a wealthy and cultivated Spanish family which produced other writers of distinction.  Seneca's father....was an influential rhetorician, whose handbooks on debating....can still be read with interest and profit.  One of his brothers was Gallio, the procurator of Achaea mentioned in Acts, and another was father of the gifted poet Lucan..."   Wow!

[MarjV]

Had to hurry and finish the book since I can't renew it due to "holds".   
I'm going to purchase Guernsey and read it leisurely like you all are doing.
Plus dealing with an infected tooth, root canal, and now cellulitis and the meds that go along with all that.

Off to read about Eliz's German Garden.

[JoanP]

Good morning and welcome to Week 2!

MarjV, you will not regret taking a slow boat through the book - though you have finished your library book.  You will have a difficult time keeping silence on the outcome.  I'm reminded of the Guernsians who had managed to hide their wireless radios and knew about DDay - but had to keep it secret from the German soldiers!!!

Does anyone know how long it took the Germans to evacuate the islands after DDay?

Steph, you will be up to speed in no time at the rate you are going!  I love Isola too.  In one of these letters, Juliet writes that she wants to be adopted by Mrs. Maugery and to adopt Isola.  What do you think she meant by this?

This week we see that the book club is expanding - is there any indication how soon others found out about the meetings and asked to join?  Or was it by invitation only?  Maybe word got out about Will Thisbee's potato peel pie?   There are book clubs around here which are quite careful with their membership lists.)


Janice, it is wonderful that you are sticking with us, book or no book!  Hopefully you will  breeze through with complete understanding when your book rises to the top of the library hold list.

I'm in and out this morning - there is so much to consider in all of your posts and hope to be able to catch up with all of you this evening.   I came in this morning to post some late-night thoughts I had on Annie Barrows and  Mary Ann Shaffer and would like to get it down, before I forget -

[MarjV]

I read the first para of Elizabeth and her German Garden thru the Gutenberg site.   So - I just had to request it thru our lib system to have a book right in my hands.


May 7th.--I love my garden. I am writing in it now in the late afternoon
loveliness, much interrupted by the mosquitoes and the temptation to
look at all the glories of the new green leaves washed half an hour ago
in a cold shower. Two owls are perched near me, and are carrying on a
long conversation that I enjoy as much as any warbling of nightingales.
The gentleman owl says [[musical notes occur here in the printed text]],
and she answers from her tree a little way off, [[musical notes]],
beautifully assenting to and completing her lord's remark, as becomes
a properly constructed German she-owl. They say the same thing over and
over again so emphatically that I think it must be something nasty about
me; but I shall not let myself be frightened away by the sarcasm of
owls.

[JoanP]

From the link to interview with Annie Barrows which Bellamarie posted yesterday -

Anyone who ever met Mary Ann knew that she was a writer-it wasn't just the tales she told, it was her relish in telling them. But writing was hard for her, and she never completed the manuscripts she started. Finally, in the late '90s, a writing group was formed for the express purpose of making Mary Ann write a book. The members were my mother, who doesn't even like to write, and two of Mary Ann's dearest friends. Each dutifully wrote something, until finally it was Mary Ann's turn. There was no way out of it-so she sat down and wrote the beginning of The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society.

While reading through this interview last night, I  stopped on the line -

"She, (Mary Ann) never completed the manuscripts she started."

I don't know why that gave me goosebumps, but I realized that MaryAnn hadn't completed Guernsey either. 
Babi, I think it was you who wondered if Mary Ann was describing her niece in the the character of Juliet.  Last night I found myself wondering if she was describing herself, as she researched Guernsey during the occupation. But then I took it one step further and wondered if Juliet herself was going to finish her own book on the Literary Society.  Will someone else have to finish it for her.  Ahhh, it was late and I have the wild imagination of the Gemini. In the same interview, Annie Barrows goes on to describe her work on the manuscript - sounds more than an editing job to me.

I didn't actually talk to Mary Ann much while I was working on the book, because she was wasn't well. Before I began, I was a little worried about my ability to carry through with Mary Ann's voice, but once I sat down and started writing, I realized that hers was a voice and a style that I knew from the inside out -- because I had been hearing them all my life. Mary Ann and my mother always lived near each other, and their stories were the wallpaper of my life. Some of these stories are embedded in the book, and some of the characters are direct descendents of people I know (that's as much as I'll say).

[pedln]

Happy Sunday morning to you all.  And what great posts you've put up to begin our second week here.  I love the excerpts from the Annie Barrows input, that show us more about Mary Ann Shaffer.  And Marj, thanks  for the excerpt from Elizabeth and her German Garden. The more I think about von Arnim, the more it doesn't surprise me that our Elizabeth was familiar with her works.

I'm running behind the wire, and must be gone most of the day, but think about this -- gleaned from Model Occupation -- and since we're talking about Eli's evacuation;

What if you had one day, at most a day and a half to decide IF your family would evacuate, or WHO in the family would evacuate or could/would you send ONLY the children? Then y ou get down to the port and see the boats that they're packing them in on, some without lifeboats.  This is what the islanders faced.

[bellamarie]

Okay, so now I am confused.  JoanP, It seems in some interviews Annie has stated the book was complete and gone to the publishers, and she then did the revising and editing.  But then, you have pointed out in another interview, she speaks of the book not being complete.

I listened to a couple of audio interviews and she does not ever seem to take credit for adding to the actual story.  We don't know exactly what the publishers asked to be revised or edited, so I am suspecting that what ever it was, is what Annie is referring to when she makes the statement, "Before I began, I was a little worried about my ability to carry through with Mary Ann's voice, but once I sat down and started writing, I realized that hers was a voice and a style that I knew from the inside out -- because I had been hearing them all my life."

I'm having a difficult time imagining Annie as having anything more than the part of editing and revising. She states, "it was clear that the prospect of making the editorial changes on the book was going to be too much for her (Mary Ann), and at that point, my cousin Liz called me to ask if I would take on the project."
I suppose we will never really know unless Annie is more specific as to exactly what she did contribute other than editing and revising.

MarjV,  Oh how I loved reading Elizabeth and her German Garden.  It is so beautifully descriptive, I felt like I was there enjoying the serenity, the flowers, the birds etc. A true house of retreat it appears. I admit I have not had the time to read it in its entirety, but intend to.  I can't imagine hurrying through TGLPPPS.  It will be worth purchasing. 

Okay, so on to the next chapters, since JoanP, has given us the go ahead.  I can't wait to see what is next.  Back later....

[nlhome]

I'm able to participate a little in this discussion, back to my life again.

This statement had struck me when I first read it, and I see it's a question for this week:

"I did not want to spend my time reading about  people who never was, doing things they never did."

I know several people who will not read fiction. My father was pretty much self-taught, and he read a lot, but never a book of fiction. I suspect the closest to fiction he ever got was reading some of my children's writing assignments from grade school. He wanted to read about real people and real situations, facts and figures.  (I don't know how he considered the Bible.)

I never really talked to him about poetry - I never thought of it, but wish I had.

[JoanP]

"I did not want to spend my time reading about  people who never was, doing things they never did."

Glad to have you with us, "N" -  and to read your comments on  Clovis Fossey's feelings about fiction.   Your father and mine too - though to be fair, my father was quite generous in feeding my appetite for fiction - no nonfiction please!  Clovis  wasn't one of the original members of the literary society, but he probably speaks for some of the other busy farmers who had neither the inclination nor the time for  fiction.  Especially during these rough times in Guernsey, I can see that this would be time not well spent for many.  Do you think that fiction is a luxury, more or less?

And yet Clovis came to love poetry.  Wordsworth in particular.  Do you think that poetry represents real feelings that he could relate to?  I'm wondering if members like Clovis came to appreciate fiction as they heard from other members of the society.

Bellamarie, I read  and quoted from the interview that you posted yesterday- in which Annie Barrows speaks of editing and then goes on to post how much work she took on when Mary Ann became ill.  For those who missed your post yesterday, I'll put it here again:

An interview with Annie Barrows

Babi,  there's a site in the heading full of Seneca's letters.  I'm sure we will be referring to them as we get into John Booker's story and what a story it is.  Steph, you were asking whether there were any Jewish on the islands when the Germans came in.  Meet John Booker! He writes to Juliet that it was Seneca's letters on leading a good life that kept him from being a drunk.  (He also writes that the other members of the Society are tired of hearing from Seneca...but he remains true.)

I've been flipping pages to find the book or the author Elizabeth brought to these meetings. Does anyone remember?

By the way - I've been puzzling over the fact that libraries have such long waiting lists for this book and yet it doesn't appear on best seller lists anywhere.  In today's paper, that has changed -

New York Times Best Seller List - Guernsey Literary  and Potato Peel Pie Society - NUMBER 8!

[EvelynMC]

I have been trying to formulate and then post my thoughts so far, but everyone has already done it so well.  So thank you for all the quotes and insights and links to other books and authors.  It makes this a very good book discussion.

Evelyn

[JoanK]

"Now just what do my bookshelves say about me - emphatically,  that I prefer reading to dusting and tidying shelves". RIGHT ON! I'm a fellow Leo. Do you suppose dislike of housework is a trait of Leos?

I think my love of mysteries is partly my love of puzzles, and partly that they appeal to some sense of rightness. Bad things happen, but evildoers are punished and the innocent freed. (Occasional mystery writers let their murderers go free, but I don't  read them!)

I also read them to learn about places and situations that are strange to me. Many others must do this too, since there are many mysteries with unusual settings or characters with unusual occupations.. I often say that everything I know I know from reading mysteries. I learn how to race in the iditerod, repair a 400 year old tapestry, survive on an Indian reservation, sew a story quilt, run a used bookstore, etc etc.

I read poetry and great works to connect to the beauty and truth of the universe. Why I read the other miscellany that I read, I have no idea.

[nlhome]

JoanP - is fiction a luxury? No. It's a way of communicating. I think sometimes it's more true than some nonfiction. As JoanK says, we learn a lot from any book. Sometimes, I think I have  even improved my behavior by reading a book of fiction, certainly my understanding of some attitudes. I stretch my mind - and that is good. I would think that certain work would pass more quickly if a person was remembering a passage from a book of fiction - or a piece of poetry. Hoeing the garden comes to mind.

[pedln]

JoanP, I’m really surprised that GLPPS has not been on any best seller list. How could that be? I wonder if it first became so well-known through libraries, bookstores and word of mouth.  ALA listed it as one of the Best Books for Young Adults for 2008.  This has sent me searching for why and  how – and the link below is from none other than J.A. Jance. She was winding up her own book tour, but too tired to tell the bookseller that she wanted to read something like Fried Green Tomatoes. “She must have been reading my mind because that’s what she gave me”

Writers are Readers -- J.A. Jance

In the face of tragedies great and small, in a world where whistling can be part of a counter-insurgency, these brave folks find that books — all kinds of books — help bind them together while offering a source of solace and wisdom.

This is storytelling at its best, telling the story of storytelling.  Wonderful.  Delightful.  Difficult.  All the things a good book should be.

J.A. Jance



I was surprised that the three well-read educated women I was with this afternoon had not heard of it. 

N and JoanK, I think your thoughts about fiction are right on.

I often say that everything I know I know from reading mysteries.

from JoanK

we learn a lot from any book. Sometimes, I think I have  even improved my behavior by reading a book of fiction, certainly my understanding of some attitudes. I stretch my mind - and that is good. I would think that certain work would pass more quickly if a person was remembering a passage from a book of fiction - or a piece of poetry. Hoeing the garden comes to mind.

from N

Heck, how much did we know about Guernsey back in 2008?

Evelyn, glad to see you here, and please, pop in with your thoughts any time.

Well, I’ve been flipping pages to see if there’s any mention of what books Elizabeth talked about at the Society meeting, but could find no mention. Perhaps more Elizabeth von Arnim.  But here is a list of those brought by the others, as I sometimes have trouble remembering who brought what.

Dawsey – Charles Lamb
Amelia – Gardening books
Clovis – poetry, especially WW I  poems, also Wordsworth
Booker – Seneca
Eben – Shakespeare
Isola – Bronte sisters
Will Thisbee – Thomas Carlyle
Clara Saussey – cookbook – was poetry in a pan

I love the way the Society is evolving – first they just talked about what they’d read.  Then they started trying to persuade the others to read their books. Don’t we all do that?  Isn’t that kind of what we do here?

[Steph]

I do agree that we tend to try to convince others of authors we have fallen in love with.. or care about. Dawsey made me laugh..." Isola has a cough syrup called Davils Suck and I pray I'll never need it" That woman must have made me grandmother. She made her own cough syrup and it was powerful stuff. One sip and you vowed never to cough again.
I am absolutely fascinated with the island itself.. and the occupation. So the jews were in face singled out. I did wonder about that. To send my children away on a days notice. How hard that had to be..

[bellamarie]

Oh dear,  I read up to May 13th, and now I must say I need to go back and read it again.  I have a ton of sidenotes, underlines, quotes marked, etc.  It seems our Society is growing, and I can barely keep up with who is who now.  I am glad to finally hear from Sidney and know he has a broken leg.  My suspicions were correct in thinking possibly something was wrong, to keep him from contacting Juliet.  Still, it does seem a bit odd he didn't take the time, to at least inform her of the broken leg sooner.

Do you sense that Sidney is more than just a big brother friend?  (Who is Piers?)
Well, I am not going to be shy about my feelings where Sidney is concerned.  I don't feel he has romantic feelings for Juliet at this point.  If anything, he shows much more care and concern for his friend Piers.  Is it possible he has some type of feelings more than friendship for Piers?  They mention Piers is a writer, and good friend.  Guess time will tell.

"I did not want to spend my time reading about  people who never was, doing things they never did." (Clovis Fossey) Do you know people who feel this way about fiction?  How did the busy farmer  become interested in poetry?   When was the last time you  memorized a poem?

I always enjoyed reading fiction books until the past few years.  Now, I find myself only interested in nonfiction.  I love knowing what I am reading is real.  I like knowing the people experienced all that they are writing about.  Mind you, I suspect one day I would like a fiction, romance novel, but lately, all my mind is thirsty for, is facts and real life stories.  I can't say I have ever memorized a poem in its entirety ever.  I have wrote many poems, and had a few actually published, and I am ashamed to admit I could not quote you, my poems, word for word.  Is that weird???  I write special poems to my husband and grandchildren, and still I can not recite them.  Is it my memory, or do other writers have this same problem?  How in God's name could those Bronte' sisters remember every word in those never ending poems?  I would love to talk with other writers, to see if they remember their work word for word, or do they remember what inspired them to write a particular poem, and the highlights of the message in them.  Anyone want to weigh in on this and give me some insight?

JoanK, Do you suppose dislike of housework is a trait of Leos?

I am a Leo, but a compulsive house keeper.  I am getting a bit more relaxed, since I turned 50 though.  Try to imagine me, an in home day care provider, with cream carpet and not a stain on it.  lolol  I must admit my entire basement has been converted to my business.  Dust is something I accept will always return. so I don't fret about it.   

[Babi]

JOANP: 

"Juliet writes that she wants to be adopted by Mrs. Maugery and to adopt Isola.  What do you think she meant by this?"

  To me, Juliet was saying she thought Mrs. Maugery was the perfect, warm, wise Mother, and Isola was like childlike with her energy and enthusiasm for life.

MARJV  "the sarcasm of owls"  What a delightful phrase!

"I think my love of mysteries is partly my love of puzzles, and partly that they appeal to some sense of rightness. Bad things happen, but evildoers are punished and the innocent freed." 

  EXACTLY! You and me both, JoanK

4/10,  Amelia to Juliet:  She is talking about the Todt prisoners, the men and boys brought in from conquered countries to do the hard labor. They were ill-fed, overworked and wore whatever rags they came in. And this, it seems, was a deliberate, planned extermination…’Death by Exhaustion’, a policy of Himmler.  I was so moved by the Todt prisoner who just wanted to see the children, reaching through the wire to hold their faces, touch their hair.

   This book has a surprising range.  From the lighthearted fun of some of the antics of the Literary Society members,  to the horrors of the war and the post-war hardships.  I was surprised when I learned that the authors are not British.  The images of what life was like in London during and after the war are so personal (like buying a new dress), and so realistic, like the grayness that seemed always to cover the city.
 

[bellamarie]

pedln,  Thank you for the list of people, and their books.  It is a big help, I am getting a bit confused with all the new characters.

[Aberlaine]

I'm reading Elizabeth and her German Garden and am enjoying it very much.

In our first week's reading, Adelaide Addison calls Isola "a practicing witch, who, by her own admission to me, distills and sells potions." (March 1, 1946)  She also describes the rest of the group: "a rag-and-bone man, a lapsed Alienist who drinks, a stuttering swine-herd, a footman posing as a Lord".  What colorful, but condescending descriptions!  Guess she thinks she's better than anyone else!

I love Isola.  I think she's a bit eccentric, but folksy, too.  I'm hoping that her remedies will come in handy during the German occupation and she'll be able to nurse someone back to health with her herbs.

Hmm, the books on my bookshelves.  Well, I have a whole collection of Stephen King which belonged to my husband.  He's been gone for nine years, but I can't bring myself to part with them.  I love fiction, but not romantic novels.  In my younger days I read Danielle Steele.

I love books that make me feel good.  Too much around now that makes us feel bad.  Five People You Meet in Heaven.  All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten.  A New Earth.  Feeling Good.

[JoanK]

I love the way you find out a little bit of something and only later find out what it's all about. Sydney broke his "other" leg!! Sooner or later, we'll know what Juliet had to do with breaking the first one, but we'll have to wait.

Wild thought! (I haven't read ahead, so don't know). Maybe Sydney isn't in Australia at all, but in the US, checking up on Mark.

Mark! How can Juliet be such an idiot about men!! If the fact that he never wants to just hang with her, but only tke her to fancy restaurants and parties doesn't alert her, the fact that he screams at her when she says she wants to think about his proposal should send her running madly in the opposite direction!! A control freak at best, an abuser at worst.

What do you suppose they talk about in those restaurants? His letters show no personality at all. Probably some line he has developed.

[bellamarie]

JoanK,

A control freak at best, an abuser at worst.

Well, I guess I will play the devil's advocate yet once again, where it comes to Juliet and her relationship with a man.  I can understand Mark feeling upset with her.  He has wined and dined her, and she admittedly loved every minute of it.   While I don't think she needed to say yes to his proposal, I'm seeing a side of Juliet who seems to like the "idea" of romance.  Mark's tirade,  "he began shouting about Sidney and godforsaken islands and women who care more about a passel of strangers than men who are right in front of them (that's Guernsey and my new friends there.), I feel was hurt he was feeling from the rejection he was feeling.  He could see how much she cares about all the things she mentions, so he must be frustrated to have fallen in love with her, when he realizes she is not ready or able to return those feelings. 

I didn't see Rob Dartry or Markham Reynolds a control freak or abuser for what they contributed to the relationship or break up.  In both incidences Juliet admits her part.  She questions her ability to love and committ.   I don't feel she has found her "Prince Charming", and should not have gotten married or engaged up to this point, but I see no reason to fault the men for their reactions for loving her, and being hurt and disappointed when they realized she was not ready to committ, or as much in love, if at all with them. 

In my opinion, I see Mary Ann Shaffer, writing the character of Juliet, in the sense of loving the idea of the unattainable love.  At this point I pity any man who sets their sights on her.  Dawsey, please be cautious!

[pedln]

Oh my goodness, we’ve got something going here about Mark and Juliet.  That was a good point, JoanK, about his seeming to want her in show-off places – parties and fancy restaurants. But Bellamarie makes sense too, when she says you can’t fault the man for being disappointed that she’s not really reciprocating his feelings.  But, aside from Rob Darty and the St. Swithin’s furnace man (  ) just how much experience has Juliet had with suave and debonaire?  And Juliet herself acknowledges that she does not know him well enough to marry him.  She’s come close to getting burned and doesn’t want that to happen again.

Babi, you are so right --   This book has a surprising range. And you express that range so eloquently.  What I find amazing is that it’s done so adeptly. We get to know these people in such a short time.  Even Eli’s thank you note to Juliet for the wood gives us a clue to what little Kit is like – “she says she won’t ever touch my whittling knife again if I carve her a ferret.”

Nancy,  isn’t Isola a wonder.  I love her, too, and as you say, she is eccentric.  But probably the most interesting of the members.  Certainly the most candid.  She doesn’t like blondes, she thinks people who live by the water are nicer than those who live inland. And men?  She’s never had a passionate affair.

Someone earlier asked about the Jewish population on Guernsey.  According to Model Occupation, most of the Jews on all the Channel Islands evacuated, but there were some who were not able to do so – mostly single women from Germany and Austria who were seeking sanctuary  from the conditions there and had found jobs as domestics on the Islands.  And then when those Islands became endangered they were not able to get into Britain.  The story is told of a young Austrian woman, Therese, who went to work as a dental assistant for a dentist in Kent.  She also ended up being their part-time nanny.  In 1939 the whole family, including Therese, took their annual summer holiday on one of the smaller Channel Islands.  War broke out while they were there and the family returned to England, but not Therese.  English immigration authorities had ordered that no Germans or Austrians enter England.  Therese found work at the hospital in Guernsey, and made friends there, but after three years was deported.  Elizabeth and Amelia were right to warn John Booker.

[Steph]

I am amazed that noone turned in John Booker.   Adelaide sounds and acts like  a typical.."I know best " kind of human, so I thought surely she would.. Thank heaven, no.. I liked his remarks about Seneca.."Writing about imaginary friends on how to behave" Sounds like fun