Deb, thank you. I found it. Poseidon, however, was now gone on a visit to the distant Ethiopians, the furthest outposts of mankind, half of whom live where the Sun goes down, and half where he rises. He had gone to accept a sacrifice of bulls and rams, and there he sat and enjoyed the pleasures of the feast.
I agree with you, I think this is in two separate places, I wonder why this is mentioned. They do credit Homer with these gods, at least he and Hesiod are the earliest mention of them, so it's fascinating to see what was thought.
such an interesting discussion-is this how it was in college or university when taking Homer studies?? I can't imagine trying to read this book without all the insight, and 'come on you can do it' from everyone!!
I am so glad you are enjoying this, I think we're in the hardest part, like jumping into a frozen stream in January, so much to get used to, fast! But once there and the background, thanks to the excellent participants here, explained (or as well as anybody could), why it's clear sailing from now on.
I want to understand in this next bit how Helen could simply go off and enjoy self. Can't wait for Friday, I love reading something which so influences our lives today, and which, in addition, has some depth and meat on it in cheerful company.
such an interesting discussion-is this how it was in college or university when taking Homer studies??
I don't know! Speaking personally, I honestly don't recall reading the Odyssey in college!! I didn't take Greek. I felt odd and somewhat defensive about it for years, but at the time (and now) Latin Majors actually had all they could do to do the Latin, much less dabble in Greek. There are actually enough Latin courses required to choke a horse and more than fulfill a requirement. I actually looked recently out of curiosity at the requirements now for a Latin major. ( I am wiling to bet less then 1 % of those currently teaching Latin anywhere are Latin majors). I already had 8 years of French, so the second language was no issue.
The Latin Major then and now might have been as scarce as hen's teeth, but the Classics Major was much more common, he did a little Latin and Greek and related culture and history, AND archaeology. I used to think of this major, dismissively, as "Jack of all Trades, Master of None," how ignorant I was! I'd now love a course in ancient Archaeology!!!! Or Greek. You can never know enough! Barbara Patla, our former Greek Instructor, now unfortunately deceased, said with Athenaze anybody can teach themselves Ancient Greek; someday I hope to have the time to give it a whirl. In my old age, as Cicero said.
But I did take Greek Literature in Translation which was required, and remember none of it. Do any of you have any experience in Homer courses in college? Either in the original or in translation?
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RR:
It is quite surprising when you see how close Crete is to the southernmost point of the Peloponnese. The trip would probably not have been so arduous, as far as distance is concerned, for the Mycenaeans who would have gone through Sparta, assuming Menelaus was still king of Sparta. Agamemnon and his army would have been able to pass freely through to Crete. (This is conjecture on my behalf
I was actually shocked when we took a ferry to Crete to find out this same thing: how close it was and how NOT far from Africa Crete was! I made all kinds of plans, wonderful trip.
I can't get the map to show in your link, is there another one? I want to fix our map to show all the places! Thank you for it.
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Dana, I agree with Barbara, it's so helpful to have people here who can read ancient Greek! Thank you for that explanation of the and/ but thing. Everything I have says "then."
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Barbara, these are good points!
As all creation implies sacrifice it is the death-life, birth and rebirth cycle, so that sacrifice is equated with creation, and identifies man with aspects of the cosmos.
Human sacrifice implied a atonement for hubris, the overweening pride of man, and a blood offering to the gods. The hubris or pride of mortals is a BIG theme in the ancient Greek gods, I wonder why, offhand? Why that one trait particularly?
Blood The life principle; strength, the rejuvenating force, hence blood sacrifice. The red, solar energy. Greek Drinking blood is usually symbolic of enmity, but it can also absorb the power of the foe and so render him harmless after death.
This last one explains why the Romans thought that the ghosts of the dead preferred blood to drink and why they brought wine (I guess as a symbolic blood) to the tombs, even had shunts so they could pour it in. This Roman tradition of gathering at the tombs and eating dinners, etc., is still followed today actually in the Dia de los Meurtos, in Mexico, Day of the Dead, in which the family gathers at the grave site, bringing flowers and feasts, just like the Romans did 2000 years ago.
We know that the Romans by the time of the Empire did not actually believe in the gods, either the Greek or the Roman adaptations (due to the antics?) but followed the rituals out of a sort of superstition. Exactly like Wang Lung in The Good Earth. And the ritual had to be followed exactly, lest some god become offended and bring bad stuff on the person involved. Do you all know the story of the Romann Admiral and the Sacred Birds?
Just yesterday I was reading about the Lombards, and their early ancestors the Langobardi, who had literally a Mother Nature, Mother Earth, goddess they dragged out for ceremonies on her altar which was covered with cloth, wheeled her out, only the priests could approach. While she was out, happiness and peace reigned, but when it was time to put her back in for war, she had to be washed in the river and her cloths washed, (have no idea what she looked like) and those who washed her were put to death. It's no surprise that the Lombards were distinguished as Tacitus says, by fewness in number. hahaha
Homer is writing of the very beginnings of religious beliefs among the Greeks. It's fascinating! But I don't think we should sell the ancients short here and consider them some kind of cave men, in any aspect, even emerging from the Dark Ages. I was just reading last night about the invention of the Odometer, for Pete's sake!
One last day before we leap into Book IV, what thoughts are you sitting there pondering? Share them! Is your translation holding up or holding your interest? Can you make anything at all out of it? hahahaa
