Author Topic: Destiny of the Republic by Candice Millard - March Book Club Online (Read 56288 times)

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #40 on:** January 30, 2012, 11:00:57 AM »

March Book Club Online

Destiny of the Republic
Candice Millard

DOES THE NAME JAMES A. GARFIELD SOUND FAMILIAR TO YOU?

HOW ABOUT PRESIDENT GARFIELD?

A man and a president almost forgotten, Candice Millard has done a magnificent job in restoring him to modern, popular history in this book and what a good book! What an excellent writer! Try to find a review that does not praise Millard's work.

A New York Times Notable Book of 2011 - "One of the many pleasures of Candice Millard’s new book, Destiny of the Republic, is that she brings poor Garfield to life—and a remarkable life it was…..Fascinating… Outstanding….Millard has written us a penetrating human tragedy.” - - The New York Times Book Review

"A passionate abolitionist, Garfield was not only hailed a hero in the Civil War, but was a fierce champion of the rights of freed slaves. At the same time, he was a supremely gifted scholar who had become a university president at just 26 years of age, and, while in Congress, wrote an original proof of the Pythagorean Theorem.

With each diary entry and letter I read, each research trip I took, Garfield came more clearly and vividly to life. It was not until I visited the National Museum of Health and Medicine in Washington, D.C., however, that I began to understand the extent of the suffering that Garfield, and the nation with him" - Candice Millard

DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:
March l	Part One (Plus Prologue)
March 9	Part Two
March 17	Part Three
March 24	Part Four

Some Topics to Consider

1. Why did our author, CM, put this Long Island Sound shipwreck of 1880, a tragic story, as an introduction, a Prologue, to her book? Why does she hint that Guiteau might be insane?

2. The end of the Civil War was April 19, 1865; Lincoln had been assassinated April 14, 1865. Yet 11 years later, the country was celebrating a fair! It had progressed to the point where it could have a centennial celebration? After such a deadly war? Does that seem obscene?

3. The inventions of technology and advances in medicine were magnificent during this period. Can it compare to modern times (which I will narrow down to my llifetime -1930 to the present day). In your mind, what one invention has been most meaningful to you?

4. Garfield, 44 years old, a father, an educated man who believed that education was “salvation”; it had saved him from a life of poverty, was a veteran of the Civil War and a father of six when we first meet him in our book. He read Shakespeare to his children? He “hoped that they would come to appreciate stories that do not come out well, for they are very much llike a good deal of life.” Do you agree that tragic stories should be read to children?

5. Guiteau and Garfield both were saved from drowning in different circumstances. Both believed they were saved for a purpose. Do you find this strange? If so, why?

6. “I so much despise a man who blows his own horn, that I go to the other extreme………I have so long and so often seen the evil effects of the presidential fever upon my associates and friends that I am determined it shall not seize me.” Could any candidate become president today with this attitude?

7. In 1880 the Republican Party was sharply divided into two warring factions. The Stalwarts and the Half-Breeds; if you had been a republican which of those would you have been in?

8. We no doubt, as a country, have lost many good men as presidents because they were not good orators. Is there any remedy for this situation?

9. The New York Customs House was the largest federal office in the USA at the time; today the Department of Defense has the largest staff. Does this fact say anything about our country?

10. “My name must not be used, they will ruin me.” - An unusual man, an honest man, a loyal man. Would you have voted for him? Did the public know enough about him?

11. Garfield was shocked, sickened? Could he not have resigned right then? Taken his name out of the nomination in some way?

12. “Sit crosslegged and look wise” was the advice given to Garfield when he was considering stumping for his candidacy. Lincoln never gave a speech on his own behalf. Wouldn’t work today would it or could it? Are we a bit tired of TV's ads and political campaigns? How much time would you say you listen to political news a day?

13. Isn’t it rather fun to read that politics has not changed much for more than a hundred years - financial and immigration scandals still issues in a campaign?

14. It has been rumored that both Lincoln and Kennedy had premonitions of their death in office. Garfield’s sentence in a letter has a similar indication - “There is a tone of sadness running through this triumph, which I can hardly explain.”

Discussion Leaders: Ella & Harold

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OK, almost certainly this discussion will make with the required 6 or more active participants. I hope and believe it will be more than 6. We'll wait until mid month to make a formal count. Anyone else out there interested in joining the discussion are welcome.

I have completed my reading with my digital copy marked for discussion highlights. It should be a good discussion experience for all. - HAROLD ARNOLD

mabel1015j · « **Reply #41 on:** February 15, 2012, 11:15:33 PM »

I've been called by the library to say i can get the book. I'm not sure if there are others on the reserve list, so don't know how long i will be allowed to have the book, but i'll take notes and try to keep up w/ you...... Jean

horselover · « **Reply #42 on:** February 16, 2012, 01:39:43 AM »

This book should be a great learning experience. Although Garfield's term as President was cut short, he was neither unsung nor forgotten. He received much praise for his military skills and is studied at military colleges to this day. It's said that he was killed as much by his doctors as by his assassin.

kidsal · « **Reply #43 on:** February 16, 2012, 05:38:11 AM »

Have the book and started reading.

ANNIE · « **Reply #44 on:** February 16, 2012, 10:39:19 PM »

Just finished this fascinating story and will get the book again closer to the opening date. Back to the library it goes.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #45 on:** February 19, 2012, 11:14:27 AM »

HORSELOVER, KIDSAL AND ANNIE - DON'T READ TOO FAR IN ADVANCE!! YOU MIGHT FORGET IT ALL BY THE TIME OF OUR DISCUSSION AND IT IS COMING UP VERY SOON.

We are so happy we will have such a good group. Interesting to learn Horselover that Garfield is studied at military colleges today. You must tell us a few instances of why he is not forgotten.

Time to put our schedule for reading in the heading, perhaps? Give you some idea of how we are going to do this?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #46 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:16:24 PM »

If you stop by, you will notice by we have put our Reading Schedule in the heading. We'll have a few suggested discussion points to be put in later.

This is going to be fun and it won't be long now. How fast the time goes!

dbroomsc · « **Reply #47 on:** February 22, 2012, 01:37:07 PM »

Thanks for posting the Reading Schedule. This appears to be a good read. Include me in, if you have not already.

serenesheila · « **Reply #48 on:** February 22, 2012, 08:39:44 PM »

I have read the prologue, and Part 1. A week apart, and now I need to go back and reread the Progloue! My memory is like a sieve! Most of the time I cannot remember what I ate last night, for dinner.

Sheila

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #49 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:49:08 AM »

That's an affliction, SHEILA, that many of us have and not just dinners! You are with us DEAN and happy to have you!

Have any of you read Candice Millard's first book THE RIVER OF DOUBT: THEODORE ROOSEVELT' DARKEST JOURNEY? Good book - what an adventure Teddy Roosevelt had, almost killed him.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #50 on:** February 24, 2012, 01:37:30 PM »

This was emailed to me today - although about WWI history and historians it is a nice article that was also online
http://links.loa.org/YesConnect/HtmlMessagePreview?a=VCsVA-sGlVhRwYGj5H08Yc

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #51 on:** February 25, 2012, 12:02:25 PM »

Thanks, BARBARA, for the memory. We discussed MacMillan's book in 2004 - which seems like it was yesterday and yet a long time ago. Here it is in our Archives:

http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/Paris1919.html

mabel1015j · « **Reply #52 on:** February 25, 2012, 12:55:44 PM »

Thanks for that site Barbara, i've bookmarked it, looks like something i will want to go back to more then once.

Did anyone notice that one of the Don PAssos books is titled Manhattan Transfer? I wonder if the jazz singing group by the same name knew of that title and identified w/ it some how. Need to see if i can find out about that....... Life and history are full of "connexions" - does anyone remember the BBC show by that name? It connected events thru history - wonderful show!

And thank you Ella for the link to the 1919 discussion, i look forward to reading thru that too.

Jean

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #53 on:** February 28, 2012, 07:51:27 PM »

Great drama is about to open in a couple of days, be prepared!!!

Two steamer ships collide in Long Island Sound, many drowned, screams, confusion and chaos in the middle of the night, but one man, a murderer, an insane man who thinks he is God, survives.

A spectacular world's fair is taking place in Philadelphia and the year is 1876. America is celebrating

The country is also thinking, planning a Republican convention to be held in Chicago, just 10 years after the great Chicago fire decimated the city.

You will be reading about the Half-Breeds and the Stalwarts!

Doesn't it sound exciting?

We will be around to take part in all of it. WE HOPE YOU WILL TO!!!

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #54 on:** March 01, 2012, 08:13:34 AM »

MARCH THE 1ST! WE ARE OPENING OUR BOOK, OUR DISCUSSION, AND WE HOPE ALL OF YOU JOIN IN TODAY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!.

I will be putting more Discussion Points to consider in this first section (see heading) but let's take the first one if anyone is around this early in the morning.

Actually, it's rather late in the morning for some isn't it? Anway, anyone up? With book in hand?

What is the purpose of a Prologue? I never knew this myself so I would be grateful if you all would enlighten me. And why this tragedy of two ships colliding is important to tell at the beginnning of this book is beyond comprehension. A good story though.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS???

dbroomsc · « **Reply #55 on:** March 01, 2012, 08:51:47 AM »

I thought the prologue set the stage for events that were to come. Survivors, I am told, seem to feel that they have been saved because there is some act or deed they need to accomplish. The act or deed need not be honorable, as indeed Guiteau's was not.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #56 on:** March 01, 2012, 09:15:41 AM »

Good morning, DEAN! Thanks for your comment. So the Prologue is giving us hints of what is in the book! After all, "madness" and "murder" is in the title. Does this make the book more palpable to the public? Is this the way to sell a book, do you think? A book just about Garfield would not do as well as a book about Garfield and the tale of his assassin?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #57 on:** March 01, 2012, 11:12:16 AM »

While running about early today I wondered how this author found out about Guiuitea being on that boat and escaping; but in turning to the NOTES on the Prologue CM apparently learned about the collision and the other facts from The NEw York Times, 1880 and also from the trial - United States vs. Guiteau, 1881.

I'm wondering if our other participants all feel the same about reading Prologues in books. At times, in reading fiction, I skip over the Prologue not wanting to know facts that are better learned (I believe) in the latter portion of the book.

However, in this case I don't believe the author relates any more facts concerning the ship's accident later in the book.

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #58 on:** March 01, 2012, 03:50:36 PM »

When I first picked up the book and began reading the prolog, I was confused. What Long Island Sound ship wreck was this? And who was this guy Guiteau who survived the wreck convinced that his survival was due to a special intervention by god who had saved his particular life for a future mission the details of which would later be revealed. At that particular point my knowledge of the details of the Garfield administration was limited to the fact that he had been one of the 4 U.S. Presidents whose term had been cut short by an assassin’s bullet. I did not recognize the name “Guiteau” as Garfield’s killer. Furthermore I was further confused by the book’s title, “Destiny of the Republic!” How in the devil did this guy (Guiteau) even after I came to realize he was the man who had shot Garfield affect the destiny of the Nation?

I guess the fact is that in this case a book is more than its Prolog. Reading on into the book proper progressing through its four parts to the end the real significances of the book is revealed. It is a complicated story of the dominance of party politics in American Governance and how in this particular case a measure of governmental reform came about through Garfield’s chance 1880 election as President, and his short six month term terminated by Guiteau’s pistol shot. And also involved is the unexplained metamorphosis of his ultra conservative Vice President (Chester Arthur) who assumed the presidency on Garfield’s death and in the concluding year of his administration approve the first United States Civil Service Legislation signaling the adornment of the previous “to the victor belong the spoils” policy, that had dominated ‘American governance since the Civil War.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #59 on:** March 01, 2012, 07:56:52 PM »

Hi HAROLD! And indeed. "When I first picked up the book and began reading the prolog, I was confused.[/b]

Yes, I was also, but once past that, the book came alive. If I were an author, I wouldn't do it; however, perhaps CM bowed to the public's apparent need for murder and mayhem. Are we as a nation consumed with such images that the media, in its myriad form, feed us every day that we need such a prologue in books to attract readers?

I hope not. Anyway, it is a good book, a very interesting book, historically factual and exciting actually.

Am hoping all our participants join us tomorrow!!!

THE MORE THE MERRIER! And a hearty welcome to new people!

marjifay · « **Reply #60 on:** March 02, 2012, 10:21:31 AM »

I've just started the book and am really enjoying it. Millard is a good writer.

Was surprised to read of Garfield's education -- foreign languages, math and literature. Most political people today have an educational background in law and/or political science. He must have been an interesting person to know.

He also must have been very religious. I thought it interesting that he listed under things he admired about people's growing knowledge of science, of all things, the "laws of God."

There is a good photo in the book of the Statue of Liberty's huge hand displayed at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial Exhibition.

Thanks to whoever nominated this book.

Marj

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #61 on:** March 02, 2012, 01:36:43 PM »

Thanks, MARJ, for the comments on the book. The "laws of God." He would be speaking of the Bible wouldn't he? Don't you think our present day politicians speak of God often also?

Our country was barely adjusting to peace during this time - it was 20 years about after that deadly Civil War - 620,000 injured and dead Americans. I think God was on many minds at the time, don't you imagine?

I'm trying to think of presidents who were not lawyers; I'm sure there have been many. Harold could advise us - Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, all those fellows were not were they? I know you are not suggesting it but I don't think, personally, that a degree in law is a necessity to become a politician. Actually, we should have less of them, perhaps?

marjifay · « **Reply #62 on:** March 02, 2012, 03:15:21 PM »

Yes, Ella, our present day politicians speak of God too often, IMO, each trying to outdo the others with how devout they are. I'll be more impressed when atheists are able to be elected to Congress. Then I'll know those who mouth their faith are probably telling the truth and not just pandering to their constituents. As to Garfield's writing about the laws of God, I just found it surprising that he equated religion with science. But, then, he was not a scientist.

As to your remark about so many still suffering the loss of their loved ones from the Civil War, I imagine that was very true. That reminded me of a book I have meant to read, The Republic of Suffering; Death and the American Civil War by Drew Gilpin Faust, regarding how individuals and the nation coped with the traumatic loss of so many in the war.

And, yes, I think it might be better if we had fewer lawyers in Congress, and a few more liberal arts majors.

Marj

horselover · « **Reply #63 on:** March 02, 2012, 04:03:27 PM »

One of the interesting parts of this title is "Medicine." It is fascinating to read about the ways medicine was practised in those times, and to think about the ways history might have been altered if the techniques of modern medicine were available then. I read another book a while ago about another President and his encounters with the medical establishment. He needed to have surgery for an oral cancer. The surgery was carried out in complete secrecy aboard a ship at sea--something that could never happen today. This President somehow survived!

serenesheila · « **Reply #64 on:** March 02, 2012, 08:39:29 PM »

I have finished chapter 4. I am really enjoying this book! The only knowledge I had about JG was that he had been killed in office.

I am really impressed by his intellect, his working to support himself, that he also taught six classes, and kept up his academic score. I know so much more about many of our other Presidents. JG was an intetesting human being.

Now, I think it is time for me to read about the other "unknowns".

Sheila

mabel1015j · « **Reply #65 on:** March 02, 2012, 09:37:42 PM »

Just popping in for a minute, my son and DIL are moving these three days, so i'm either babysitting or packing.....

I was struck w/ JG's NOT wanting to be president and not campaigning. While here we are in the middle of a campaign where three or four men are demeaning and lying about each other in order to end up being the person nominated by their party! What a turn around!

Jean

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #66 on:** March 03, 2012, 08:57:44 AM »

HORSELOVER - so true! We might have had Lincoln longer as a president possibly if modern medicine were practiced in those days; certainly Washington or Jefferson! And every day we learn of another technique in surgery or a new medicine to help folks in need.

If you have read much about the Civil War or even WWI you know how many died of disease, amputations, wounds that could be saved today. My daughter, a retired Army Reservist nurse and now working in the clinic at the VA, knows how quickly good help comes to those wounded and our veterans.

Thanks for your post! Who was the president who had oral surgery at sea? Was it because he didn't want to the country to know? Compare that to President Reagan who when shot yelled from a hospital window to say he forgot to duck! I think he was in a more critical stage than we all realized at the time.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #67 on:** March 03, 2012, 09:08:35 AM »

SHEILAs I'm so happy you are enjoying the book. It is difficult to find a nonfiction book that may interest a lot of people - well, that is true of fiction as well isn't it?

Garfield was certainly a self-made man, in the image of Lincoln wasn't he? Pulled up by his bootstraps as they say! Never ashamed of his ragged clothes! What did you think of his being saved by a twist in the rope when he almost drowned in the Erie Canal?

"I did not believe that God had paid any attention to me on my own account but I thought He had saved me for my mother and for something greater and better than canaling."

And in the PROLOGUE, Guiteau, saved from drowning, also believed he had been saved by God for a purpose. What do you make of these two incidents?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #68 on:** March 03, 2012, 09:24:43 AM »

JEAN, pop in often. Happy to see you!

We must talk more about that campaign of 1880; we are in a similar campaign and soon will be at a convention. This sentence gives us an idea of what it was like:

"Each day had been more bruising than the last, as the crowd had grown louder, the tensions higher, and the delegates angrier."

No TV, no debates, no commentators, just a crowd listening to an speaker and yet it was "bruising." Fortunately, for Garfield, he was a spell-binding orator - a "skilled rhetorician."

"My name must not be used, they will ruin me.”

Why didn't he want to be president? Couldn't he had just resigned?

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #69 on:** March 03, 2012, 09:25:42 AM »

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR COMMENTS. WE ARE SO HAPPY YOU ARE ENJOYING THE BOOK.

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #70 on:** March 03, 2012, 09:48:02 AM »

Regarding Marj's comment on Garfields education, he does seen to have had quite a good one. Though his college lacked the glamor of the top tier it was certainly a decent one and he seems to have maintained a post grad contact with it. He was departing at the RR station to attend an alumni evect when he was shot.

I noted also the contrast between his courses and John Adams' at Havard 100 years earlier. Adam's was classical Latin and Greek with a glass of whisky for breakfast. Garfield's included mathematics and (more contemporary) social sciences.

marjifay · « **Reply #71 on:** March 03, 2012, 10:40:01 AM »

Ella wrote, "
"I did not believe that God had paid any attention to me on my own account but I thought He had saved me for my mother and for something greater and better than canaling."

"And in the PROLOGUE, Guiteau, saved from drowning, also believed he had been saved by God for a purpose. What do you make of these two incidents?"

Makes for a good story with irony. I don't believe god had anything to do with either, but the fact that they each believed it led them in different directions -- one to push himself to do good and the other to do something horrific.

(A little off topic, but I'm always amazed to hear people say, as in the reports on the terrible tornados hitting the country now, "The good Lord saved us." I then wonder why God didn't spare the others who were killed or lost their homes. Were they "bad" people not deserving of being saved?)

Marj

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #72 on:** March 03, 2012, 01:07:45 PM »

I did not attach much importance to Guiteau's belief that God had intervened by saving his life for a later special purpose. I think it is quite common for people who survive such disaster to arrive at similar conclusions. Most of course to not conclude as Guiteau did. We need to probe deeper into the significance of Chapter 1 and its importance to the author's plan for telling the story of her book.

dbroomsc · « **Reply #73 on:** March 03, 2012, 01:45:50 PM »

Responding to #11 in Some Topics to Consider: I wonder if Garfield thought that refusing the nomination would hinder his future prospects for public office. He, according to my reading, did not seek the nomination, in fact, he nominated another candidate. Then once nominated he did not campaign. What a difference in today's candidates.

I'm finding this book very interesting.

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #74 on:** March 03, 2012, 02:23:42 PM »

Good point, DEAN. Being a president does rather hinder your future job prospects, doesn't it? I'm not a true historian, but I don't believe any president has become a Congressman after his term is over. Anyone?

Garfield must have been truly inspiring as an orator to be move a crowd as he did at the convention. Is this a first do you think?

Referring to Question #8 could a person become president today if he were not a good speaker? It seems to me that with telepromptors, excellent writers, a good coach, most anyone could indeed pass muster, so to speak? Is that true?

Are the debates we see on television prompted in any way, do you think? Or would one have to be a debater as well?

Just a few thoughts on the events in Chapter 1 - "treacherous peace"

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #75 on:** March 03, 2012, 03:28:23 PM »

HAROLD, I just saw your post. The significance of Chapter One?

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #76 on:** March 03, 2012, 03:51:14 PM »

Dean, Ella and all: The Republican Convention of 1880 as describe in the book was an Interesting one. As it happened the leading candidate as the convention opened, proposed by the Stalwart wing of the Republican party for the Republican nomination was none other than the former 2-term President, Ulysses S. Grant. Interesting! If he had won the nomination and the election he would have been our first 3 term President. The candidate of the reform minded, Half-breed wing of the party was James G. Blaine., speaker of the House of Representatives. Garfield’s role was simply to make the nomination speech nominating Blaine as the Republican candidate for President. Garfield dutifully made the Speech. But immediately after its finished the speech delegates began a swing to Garfield as the Republican nominee,, a move that quickly acquire momentum ending in Garfield” nomination for President. This unexpected of events was no doubt because the convention was in an apparent dead lock state with the delegates frantically looking to a way out. In any case it happened and James Garfield though he shunned being personally involved in electioneering ended up winning the election. He was inaugurated on March 4, 1881.

Could this happen today? You know, I suppose it could. If in fact two leading Candidates went into the convention near evenly divided and neither would budge there would be no other way but to settle for some 3rd party able to command the majority vote.

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #77 on:** March 03, 2012, 04:12:42 PM »

Horselover,: Medicine and the way it was practiced at the time is certainly a topic for discussion. To my Knowledge the only President who eventually died of mouth cancer was Ulysses S. Grant, but it did not occur until years after his term had ended. Quite a few years ago Ella and I lead a discussion on Mark Twain's friendship with the then Ex President Grant. Twain' was responsible for Grant's decision to write and publish his Civil War Memos. In fact Twain helped him write this book that was published just before Grant died of the disease.

The book described the diagnosis and treatment of Grant's disease that as I remember was the burning of the mouth cancers with silver nitrate and other strong acids. I don't recall any of these treatments being done in a ship at sea.

maryz · « **Reply #78 on:** March 03, 2012, 04:23:17 PM »

Google is our friend - the president was Grover Cleveland.

http://oralcancerfoundation.org/people/political_figures.htm

HaroldArnold · « **Reply #79 on:** March 03, 2012, 04:51:13 PM »

Regarding Ella's question in Reply #74: Good point, DEAN. Being a president does rather hinder your future job prospects, doesn't it? I'm not a true historian, but I don't believe any president has become a Congressman after his term is over. Anyone?

I don't think you are right Ella. I know of no law prohibiting an ex President from holding any future Job in Government or private. One reason it don't happen is that they are accorded a very special and unique position as ex Presidents. More than just life income but also status and position as members of a singularly unique club. They are sometimes called upon to serve as United States Representatives at foreign state funerals and perhaps other similar semi offical tasks. Also they have their own office space, Secret Service protection, clerks, and secretaries through which they practice and promote their own particular agendas often associated with the establishment and maintenance of their own Presidential libraries housing the historical Archives of their administration.

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Author Topic: Destiny of the Republic by Candice Millard - March Book Club Online (Read 56288 times)