Author Topic: Presidents Club, The by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy~September Book Club Online  (Read 52906 times)

bellamarie

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #120 on: September 04, 2012, 09:21:02 AM »

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

SEPTEMBER BOOK CLUB ONLINE
PLEASE POST BELOW IF YOU PLAN TO JOIN US.
 



As we head into another overheated and polarizing presidential campaign, at least it's a comfort knowing that former presidents have learned to mostly put aside partisan politics and work together.  Thanks to the brilliant investigative work of Time magazine's Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy, The Presidents Club uncovers a powerful secret fraternity, in which ex-leaders stay in the game by counseling inexperienced successors. - USA Today

Realizing that membership in the Presidents Club bestows a singular perspective can help explain certain minor mysteries of our political life. How, for example, could Clinton ever forgive George H.W. Bush, who in the 1992 campaign all but charged him with being a traitor, if not a Soviet stooge, for visiting Russia as a college student and protesting the Vietnam War “from foreign soil”? Why has Obama, whose presidential quest embodied a repudiation of everything George W. Bush stood for, heard scarcely a grumble about his policies from his once-belligerent predecessor? The answer lies in what Kennedy said to Arthur Schlesinger when asked to rank the presidents: “Only the president himself can know what his real pressures and his real alternatives are.” It’s a sentiment that virtually every president voices at one point or another in this book. - Washington Post


DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:

Chapters 1-9           9/1 through 9/8
Chapters 10-14       9/9 through 9/15
Chapters 15-19       9/16 through 9/22
Chapters 20-26       9/23 through 9/30


Related Links: Secrets of the Presidents Club - Video;  
Book TV with Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy;

Discussion Leaders:  Ella and Harold

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Jean~ I have to agree with you when it comes to the younger people of this country not being informed or taught Civics and History in the schools or colleges.  Most don't seem to be the least bit concerned or interested in govt.  When I spoke of the American people being aware of the workings of govt I was referring to the largest voting sector (seniors and the middle aged.)  The college kids got largely involved in the 2008 election mostly because Obama seemed to be younger, cool, he was using the internet, iphone, twitter and they saw him as the hip candidate.  They thought he could relate closer to their activities. They liked the fact he had a celebrity personality and Hollywood was smitten with him.  Now they are disappointed, distracted, the newness of all these modern day technologies have worn off and the polls show the percentage that voted in 2008 are not likely to be voting in this upcoming election.  I crack up when Jay Leno or Jessie Waters goes out in the public and asks them who is the Vice president or Secretary of State and they have NO clue.  I laugh at their ridiculous answers and then realize how ill informed they really are.  This is our next generation....God save us.  lololol

It saddened me when Ike could not just graciously thank Truman for the kind gesture of bringing his son home for his inauguration, even if he thought he should not have shown special favor.  I sense Ike was not used to acts of kindness.  Removing the picture was a bit childish.  

I'm not sure all men/women have to have large egos to run for or hold a political office, or presidency.  I know some pretty humble politicians who are there to truly care for their state/people/country.  We don't hear much about them because they are the silent doers rather than the flashy attention seekers.
 
Ciao for now~
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Ella Gibbons

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #121 on: September 04, 2012, 09:32:05 AM »
But there are different ways of handling power when you have it: anyone who feels that to delegate power or be open to contrary opinions threatens their power is a problem.

Amen, JOANK.  Are you talking in general terms or a specific president?

Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #122 on: September 04, 2012, 09:40:32 AM »
Yes, BELLEMARIE, I'm sure there are many unsung, unpublicized, silent politicans.  People behind the scenes and there must be many, many.  Somehow our country works - from day to day.  It's just not the president who does it all.

OH, WE ARE UP TO LBJ in the book. - the man who had the skill to keep from getting caught (quoting Harold)  And we are moving right along.   Thanks, HAROLD, for your remarks, always.  You are a Texan I know, and we expect comments from you when we get to the Bush family.

WHAT DID THE REST OF YOU THINK OF LBJ?  Before and after reading the book?

threadheadnet

  • Posts: 20
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #123 on: September 04, 2012, 09:59:53 AM »
... WHAT DID THE REST OF YOU THINK OF LBJ?  Before and after reading the book?

In this book, LBJ comes across as really *needing* The Club. I've listened to Doris Kearns Goodwin (historian and one-time Johnson aide) quite a bit, and she confirms how lonely he was. But, the nation can be grateful for the way Johnson finessed the transition after JFK was assassinated. I guess the lesson is each President has weaknesses and strengths, as do we all ... the only difference is how they're managed.

 

mabel1015j

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #124 on: September 04, 2012, 01:15:43 PM »
I was in college in 1960 and very much a JFK fan, but then my whole family were Dems, so whomever they ran, i would have liked that platform. But i was surprised at how many of my fellow students were voting for Nixon. My naivete. Of course, i lived in southcentral Pa, which is largely rural and largely Rep. My feeling was also one of empathy for the apparent discrimination against Kennedy's religion.  I had grown up in a staunch CalvinistPresbyterian/Methodist family and church. My Mother seriously considered voting Rep because of her prejudice against Catholicism. Naturally i had to counter that old-fashioned idea.  ;)

I still don't get any president's, but especially Kennedy and Clinton's, philandering!?! How could anyone that smart and in such a delicate situation feel such internal pressure to fulfill that libido need? That "15 yr old boy" needs to be harnessed. Yes, Joe Kennedy set an example, but he wasn't POTUS.
I do believe Joe finagled the election. Other than her redecorating of the White House, i was not a fan of Jackie. However, she seemed to have raised two good kids.

JFK turned out to be a better president than i suspected, but i don't think, from my reading the last several decades that he was one of the greatest. His handling of the missle crises was probably his finest hour........ I think i would probably not like most of these guys as a friend - to have dinner with? Oh Yes! But as a friend? Oh No!

Jean

JoanK

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #125 on: September 04, 2012, 03:25:40 PM »
"WHAT DID THE REST OF YOU THINK OF LBJ?  Before and after reading the book? "

I think the whole message of this book to me will be to give me a more nuanced view of all the presidents -- as opposed to the angel or devil view the political campaign gives us. Since Lbj is a former president, I'm not in the business of voting him up or down anymore.

Ella Gibbons

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #126 on: September 05, 2012, 10:31:07 AM »

In this book, LBJ comes across as really *needing* The Club. I've listened to Doris Kearns Goodwin (historian and one-time Johnson aide) quite a bit, and she confirms how lonely he was. But, the nation can be grateful for the way Johnson finessed the transition after JFK was assassinated. I guess the lesson is each President has weaknesses and strengths, as do we all ... the only difference is how they're managed.

I agree, KATHLEEN, and I feel sorry for the man who had been such a strong, albeit cunning, manipulator in his Congressional years and taking the office after witnessing Kennedy's death, and attempting to follow in that shadow.

Truman, likewise, took office unexpectedly with little help from his former president and somehow to me Truman did a better job of handling affairs

-------------------------------------

BUT BEFORE LBJ, there was JOHN F. KENNEDY.

Thanks, JEAN, for keeping us on track with your reminiscences.  One of the saddest, most tragic periods of the presidency in my lifetime.

This book purportedly is about a club whose members are former presidents?  But it is difficult to stay on that subject isn't it, with such rich personalities, such power to discuss.

Let's discuss JFK. He neeed the club - he needed Eisenhower.  

He kept all of Eisenhower"s people in key positions (p.130).  

What went wrong with that plan?   Seems rather llike a good idea, what went wrong?


bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #127 on: September 05, 2012, 10:48:07 AM »
Oh heavens.....LBJ, and skipping entirely over JFK?  

Jean, From reading many books on the personalities and lives of the past presidents there were more than Kennedy and Clinton who did their share of philandering while in the White House. Seems power goes to these men's heads and they can't seem to control their libidos.  I know I read LBJ had a secret room for his lady friends and Lady Byrd was aware of it.  

I loved Jackie Kennedy, she was my first impression of a First Lady since I was only 9 yrs old when the Kennedy's took the world by storm.  She was more than a decorator, she was huge in the fine arts, she spoke many different languages, she was very much active in the literary world and I have a few of her poems Caroline published in her books after her death.  Jackie loved John in spite of his cheating.  She too wanted the Presidency as much as he did.  I applaud her courage after John was shot. She raised two beautiful, intelligent unspoiled children keeping them as protected from the paparazzi as possible.  They were "Camelot" to me, and the world, and that is something I think this world will never experience again.


#5.  What were President Kennedy’s mistakes in his first year in office and how could he have avoided them?

I could see a few mistakes Kennedy made in his first 100 days.  He wanted to be too hands on and eliminate the middle guy/woman.  Trying to take on too much will cause more stress then need be.  He also did NOT follow his OWN instincts with the Bay of Pigs.  Everything he saw and heard told him it would not be a successful mission, yet he trusted in the "plans" of a 5 star General and all the people he kept regarding those top positions.  I found it interesting how later when Eisenhower was talking with Gordon Gray going through the notes of the conversation stored with Eisenhower's other classified presidential papers how Ike was surprised to see the word "planning" and decided to change it.

Quote
pg. 142  "The account did confirm the importance Ike had placed on there being a plausible government in exile in place before any move was made on Castro.  But it was when they came across the word "planning" that Eisenhower recoiled.  "This is wrong," he insisted.  "We did no military planning." All he had approved was the training of the Cuban exiles, not a blueprint for the deploymen.  "With your permission," he told Gray, "I'm going to have this page rewritten to reflect the facts."  Gray agreed; more than a decade later, he wrote to the assistant director of the Eisenhower library explaining how the original version of the memo had been misleading, and how they altered it.

Imagine how that one word "planning" may have changed the entire event.  Had Kennedy called Eisenhower to  confirm or confer with him, I am almost certain the Bay of Pigs mission would not have taken place at that time, changing history. I am impressed how Kennedy did not try to put the blame on Ike even though he could have.  

Lessons learned indeed:  
Quote
Quote
"The Bay of Pigs changed Kennedy's approach to executive management.  He stopped believing that the judgement of professionals was infallible, and he rebuilt part of the Eisenhower system, even reviving some of the committees he had so intent on stamping out.

I agree, I think the Cuban missile crisis was his finest hour, and I pray NO president will ever have to be faced with that decision again.  

Ella, Seems we were posting at the same time.  lol  I'm happy to see we will not skip over Kennedy.  I was surprised to read how Eisenhower was impressed with young Kennedy.  lol

pg. 120 
Quote
Eisenhower was pleased by the invitation to remain involved, as Kennedy had plainly intended.  And he was, against all expectations, impressed.  Persons later told Clifford that Ike had been "overwhelmed" by Kennedy.  "What impressed the President the most, "Persons said, "was your man's understanding of world problems, the depth of his questions, his grasp of the issues and keenness of his mind."  Ike called  him one of the "ablest, brightest minds I've ever come across," and confessed to perhaps having misjudged him."
Yet later he says,

Quote
But he also glimpsed the blind spots.  "I think he was pretty quick, but my impression was this, "Eisenhower told an interviewer years later, reflecting on that first encounter.  "At that time, he looked on the presidency as not only a personal thing, but as an institution that one man could handle with an assistant here and another there.  He had no idea of the complexity for the job at that time."

I sense that is the case in every man who sits in that Oval office after being sworn in......
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

Ella Gibbons

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #128 on: September 05, 2012, 11:14:27 AM »
Great post, BELLEMARIE!  YOu've said it well, I think most of us agree, it was a Camelot moment in istory. 

But Kennedy did check in with the club from time to time for advice, for sympathy, perhaps, from those who had been there. 

Krushehev and Kennedy, for many reasons, documented in the book, had troubles from the start.  I can't remember if it is in the book but I have read about their first meeting.  Hard to believe that Kennedy, this polished confident debater, speaker, war hero, was so demolished by the Soviet leader.

But for his strengths in office I remember the Peace Corps.

Why should we remember Kennedy as one of our greatest presidents?  Was ist solely for the tragecy of his assassination?

 

HaroldArnold

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #129 on: September 05, 2012, 11:15:07 AM »
Pushing on deeper into the 20th century we reach 1968 and the Presidential election scheduled for that year.  LBJ’s abrupt decision to abandon his reelection campaign in the face of the Viet Nam situation, elevate Nixon to the favorite position among the Republicans.  But also Ronald Regan just had succeeded in doing what  Nixon had failed to do, had just won the California Governor race and was suddenly on the screen as an alternate to Nixon as the republican Presidential Candidate.   Our book discusses this campaign in its minute details.   To me Regan somehow did not seem fully committed and Nixon ended up with the nomination that led to his winning the Presidency in the Nov 1968 Election.  

I wonder how much if any the earlier Regan Presidency would have differed from his term that he won12 years later post Nixon, Ford, and Carter.  In 1968 Regan would have been just 58 years old.  In 1981 when Regan began his first term he had just turned 70  the oldest of all our presidents.  I guess my opinion is that he was luckily for the 12 year delay.  The time then was ripe for his setting of the stage for the ending of the cold war that came shortly after the end of his second term. during the first Bush Presidency.

Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #130 on: September 05, 2012, 11:21:31 AM »
An aside:

I'm reading an autobiography of George Stephanopoulos - the Clinton years, titled ALL TOO HUMAN.

Speaking of presidents he has this to say: "It's a small, select club, a peerage, the few men alive at any one time who have served as president.  What unites them, ultimately, overwhelms partisan differences or even the bitter memories of past political battles.  Only they know what it's like to be president......to sit alone in the Oval Office late at night and contemplate the imperfect choices that are the stuff of history."

Did our authors get the idea for the "club" from GS's book?  Interesting.

bellamarie

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #131 on: September 05, 2012, 12:33:47 PM »
Ella~  I have read that book and I absolutely have great respect for George Stephanopoulos.  I won't spoil your read, but I will say George is a fine man.  Like him and his book very much.

I think our authors did get the idea for the club right form GS's book.  Each of the presidents so far that we have read about in "the club" does acknowledge, that ONLY once you have sat in that Oval office chair, can you understand what it is like and the pressures that come with it.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #132 on: September 06, 2012, 12:08:13 AM »
There maybe has never been as good a use of"The Club" in public then what happened on tv tonight. Bill Clinton, not only a past president who was dissed by Al Gore, a potential successor, but whose wife bid to be in the club and was defeated by this president! Imagine how Eisenhower would have behaved in this situation - or Harry Truman for that matter. Whoo! Bill Clinton and Barack Obama embracing after C had given O an amazing speech of support this was a night to remember, historically, re: "The Club".

threadheadnet

  • Posts: 20
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #133 on: September 06, 2012, 12:32:16 AM »
I've been thinking about drawing a sociogram ... names of presidents with lines to/fro and an arrow indicating who initiated contact. So many surprises in this book I can't absorb them all!

Apparently, the authors got the idea for this project from their previous collaboration on a Billy Graham book. They were struck how the minister interacted with presidents across the political perspective, and how they interacted with each other.

My fave pres so far is Truman ... so practical and generous, a winning combination in my book.

This is my first seniorlearn.org book discussion; are we waiting until 09-10-12 to proceed to Chap. 10? I can hardly wait ... esp. after watching this year's conventions. Thanks.

Kathleen

kidsal

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  • Howdy from Rock Springs, WY
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #134 on: September 06, 2012, 03:58:49 AM »
I was especially touched by LBJ's trip to Independence, MO to sign the Medicare bill into law and giving Truman the first card.  Remember visiting Wash DC and seeing LBJ relaxing and talking with another senator -- only the two of them on the Senate floor.  My roommate in the 60s became a secretary in the LBJ White House.  She took a few trips to Texas on the presidential plane - apparently quite ribald trips.
Was living in Los Angeles at the time and saw Kennedy accept the nomination at the Coliseum.
This book brings back so many memories.

Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #135 on: September 06, 2012, 11:20:36 AM »
Can you think, JEAN, or has it ever occurred, when the current president has a former president as a keynote speaker at the convention?  My memory needs warming, I need a book, an article, a quote.   I agree, Clinton, did a great job, and is, indeed, able to speak to a crowd well; personal, dramatic, southern Baptist style.  Our paper, a Republican paper, has the speech fact checked, I haven't read it yet.

Thanks, KATHLEEN, for that note about our authors; I believe that appeared somewhere, I remember reading it now.  We are alike in that it is hard to absorb all this knowledge; so much of it new.  I want to spend a week on just a chapter, but no, we must go on. 

Yes, KATHLEEN, we will wait until the 10th to continue with the next chapters in the book (see Schedule in the heading).  We try to stick to the schedule listed as much as possible in our discussions and we are so pleased when a new person finds our discussions and posts their comments.

WE WELCOME ALL AND ANY COMMENTS, both affirmative and negataive.


Ella Gibbons

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #136 on: September 06, 2012, 11:29:33 AM »
Harold is pulling us forward into Nixon's presidency, but we have two days before we start on the next week's chapters.

Probably most of us remember the Vietnam War, I had a nephew who fortunately came back alive and I remember a young neighbor graduating from high school frightened at the prospect of being drafted.  Remember the lottery system?

Being curious about the whole system of selective system I looked up a web site -

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/deploymentsconflicts/l/bldrafthistory.htm

WHAT ARE YOUR MEMORIES OF THE VIETNAM WAR?  

JoanK

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #137 on: September 06, 2012, 12:30:32 PM »
This is PatH, using JoanK's computer.

The schedule in the heading says we move on on the ninth.  Is that right?

Kathleen/threadheadnet, you might be interested in why we discuss the books in chunks this way.  We find that it makes for a more coherent, deeper discussion.  If we do the whole book at once, people are all over the map in which section they have comments on, and it's hard to develop any one topic completely.  And reading speeds and available time vary a lot, so it's good to give enough time to each section to be sure everyone has read up to date.  There aren't any spoilers in a history book, but in fiction, especially books with plot twists and surprises, it's crucial not to talk ahead and spoil things for those who haven't read ahead.

It can get frustrating, though, when one is eager to talk about something.

bellamarie

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #138 on: September 06, 2012, 05:19:03 PM »
Well to weigh in on the Convention last night,  I couldn't help but wonder just what was the deciding factor for Bill Clinton to be persuaded to give that speech.  He really didn't give a lot of accolades to Obama, if anything what struck me strange is when he said, "Look. No president, not me, no other president could have gotten us out of this hole in just four years."   

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-the-record/2012/09/06/clinton-touch-bill-recasts-dialogue-makes-case-obama-better-president-has#ixzz25iylXQqT 

It almost is giving the republicans a new slogan,  Clinton couldn't , Obama couldn't,  so move over and let Romney..He can!  I am certain Clinton still holds a grudge against Obama for him calling him a racist, and for how Obama and the DNC treated Hillary when she was trying to win the Democratic nomination in 2008.  That speech Clinton gave last night in my opinion (someone who voted for Bill and has always liked him, went to listen to his speech in my home town in 08 and worked on Hillary's campaign) was more puffing himself up rather than helping Obama.  Bill loves a stage!  When he stood there wagging his finger it brought back the image of his famous denial, "I did not have - - -  with that woman." Not so sure the American people can get past that image.  lolol  He is a man who loves his country, and I am certain is helping Hillary's future run for presidency, if she so chooses. He was a successful president, and I believe, he could have gotten us out of this hole in 4 yrs.  But enough about Bill. 

If ever there was a need for the "club" I can see where it was imperative for LBJ to have Eisenhower to reach out to.  Throughout the Vietnam decision making, its as if LBJ did not feel strong enough, informed enough or much of a leader.  Reading these chapters gives me the impression LBJ was president in name only, Eisenhower seemed more the commander in chief.  LBJ seemed a very weak man who was not ready to be president, even though it was thrust upon him.

pg. 177 
Quote
The Club War Council.....The key players assembled in the Cabinet Room at ten on February 17: Johnson and Eisenhower, McNamara and Bundy, Army Chief and Staff General Earle  Wheeler, and Andrew Goodpaster, who kept notes and would become Johnson's personal emissary to Eisenhower for the next three years.  Everything was on the table:  Vietnam's history, the role of the French, the Soviets, and the Chinese, the odds of success, the risks of escalation, the case for using nuclear weapons if it came to that.  At this crucial  meeting, Ike acted as if he were still the commander in chief and Johnson let him.

pg.  174
Quote
"I'm not tempermentally equipped to be Commander-in-Chief," Lady Bird overheard her husband tell Vice President Hubert Humphrey as the internal  debate raged. "I'm too sentimental to give the orders."

These are not the words I would want or expect to hear from a president at the cusp of sending in thousands of soldiers to fight in a war on foreign soil. 

Did Eisenhower push LBJ into the decision knowing he wasn't capable of making it on his own?  Why didn't Eisenhower take on Vietnam himself during his presidency?


Ella~ I remember a friend of mine had a brother who came home from the Vietnam war and he was telling us how his brother slept with a gun in his bed, left his clothes on and would wake up in the middle of the night thinking he was still in Vietnam, on the front lines.  That had to be horrifying for these young  men/women to return home with all the nightmares to deal with.  The question always lingers...was it worth it? 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

JoanK

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #139 on: September 06, 2012, 08:28:57 PM »
WELCOME KATHLEEN!

HaroldArnold

  • Posts: 715
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #140 on: September 06, 2012, 08:44:13 PM »
I agree with Ella’s’ comments regarding the schedule.  I had to take most of today off to complete some necessary business. But I do think we need to move on so to be ready for the next week chapters.  This will start Saturday.  Also we probably still have more to say about the Nixon’s addition to the Club and how about Regan’s sudden emergence on the national political scene in 1968.  Nixon had his second chance, but Regan made him sweat before achieving his second chance, and in the end Nixon won in 1968 and again in 1972, only to get caught in his Watergate mesh a year later.  Some of you might comment on the events leading to his impeachment and resignation.  Were you surprised at Nixon’s rather easy acceptance as a member of the Club.  Also we need some comments on the Ford administration that replaced Nixon as President for the last three years of that term.

As a Texan I have liked LBJ.  Except for that first Senate race, I voted for him every time he was on the ballot.  I had a friend who was closer to the Texas Democratic Party than I, who actually had an invite to attend one of LBJ’s events at the Ranch during his Presidency.   I think it was for the West German Chancellor.  He actually got to shake his hand and eat LBJ’s bar b’ que.   My group from this senior’s apartment where I live toured the ranch last year Since Lady Bird died, the ranch has been administered as a National Park.    It is a rather simple ranch house quite close to a pretty little hill country river,  but the ranch shows the effect of its Owner’s rank in the aircraft landing strip and many buildings built by the Government to house the president’s communications, security, and offices.  Also LBJ had quite a collection of automobiles.

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #141 on: September 06, 2012, 09:57:34 PM »
I'm a little behind you all in my reading. I'm just staring LBJ. So i'll answer the question about whether i liked him. I liked almost all of his policies except Viet Nam. I thought he used all his powers to push some great legislation. I don't think i would have wanted to be a woman in his White House. Lady Bird must have been one of the strongest First Ladies if all time.

I love the stories i've read about his persuasive powers, of all kinds, charm, knowledge, chits called in, but i wouldn't have wanted to be on the end of his in-your-face aggressiveness. :) i'm sure he would have called in the Club and been as respectful and charming as he needed to be. ........looking forward to see if i'm right, as soon as the convention is over, i'll be reading.

Jean

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #142 on: September 07, 2012, 02:33:22 PM »
I don't believe Johnson's torment could have been avoided because i think it was who he was. With all the power and successes he had had in his life, he had a tremendous need for approval. The flip side of that was a paranoia that others were against him. Therefore, he bounced back and forth between being kind and generous, being ingratating, including to Ike and Truman, but then worrying about whether they might be manipulating him the way he manipulated people.

I think that's typical of people who are sneaky, manipulative, dishonest, needy. They assume others think and act the way they do and feel they have to get the jump on others, and/or they become depressed about how s/he is not liked. Nixon also falls into this category and maybe Bobby Kennedy. People w/ good self-esteem meet people w/ more optimism that others are going play fair, until they prove they will not. People w/ confidence also assume that if the other person proves untrue they can handle them.

Jean

Ella Gibbons

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Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #143 on: September 07, 2012, 02:55:13 PM »
OH, THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR COMMENTS.  IT IS SO INTERESTING TO COME TO THE COMPUTER AND READ THEM.

I don't have time to respond to posts but I did take the time to do a bit of research into war and who has the power to declare it.  I've never actually known how we got into the Vietnam War or the Korean; and furthermore did the two Bush presidencies have the power to take us to war in the Middle East.  

Haven't you ever wondered.  Here are two sites that interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States

For the United States, Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution says "Congress shall have power to ... declare War".

And on another site I read this:

"After Congress repealed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution in January 1971 and President Richard Nixon continued to wage war in Vietnam, Congress passed the War Powers Resolution (Pub.L. 93-148) over the veto of Nixon in an attempt to rein in some of the president's claimed powers. Today, Congress recognizes no claimed power of the president to wage war outside of the War Powers Resolution.



 

Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #144 on: September 07, 2012, 03:00:14 PM »
Briefly, I remember my reaction to this chapter, #9, was the same reaction I had to those awful years of Vietnam.  America is in trouble, what to do?

Johnson was caught up in this and he was not up to the task.  It ruined him and he quit and died on his farm a broken man.  

Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #145 on: September 07, 2012, 03:14:04 PM »
ONE LAST THING TODAY:

from Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution
 
"The War Powers Resolution requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war. The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding a presidential veto.
 
The War Powers Resolution was disregarded by President Reagan in 1981 by sending military to El Salvador, by President Clinton in 1999, during the bombing campaign in Kosovo, and by President Obama in 2011, when he did not seek congressional approval for the attack on Libyan forces, arguing that the Resolution did not apply to that action. All incidents have had congressional disapproval, but none have had any successful legal actions taken against the president for violations.[2][3] All presidents since 1973 have declared their belief that the act is unconstitutional. [4][5]



So, yes, the Presidenet has too much power today.

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #146 on: September 07, 2012, 05:30:31 PM »
I remembered reading more than once that President DE had said we should not get in a land war in Asia. I can't find that exact quote, but here is another.......

"In February 1954, President Eisenhower refused to commit American troops to the Franco-Vietnamese War. In a press conference he stated, "I cannot conceive of a greater tragedy for America than to get heavily involved now in an all-out war in any of those territories."

And

"In the end, convinced that the political risks outweighed the possible benefits, Eisenhower decided against the intervention.[81] As an experienced five-star general, Eisenhower was wary of getting the United States involved in a land war in Asia."

So i was surprised at the encouragement he gave LBJ to continue to increase troop numbers. As the authors said, not being the one making the decisions make the ex-presidents more agressive. Interesting.

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #147 on: September 07, 2012, 05:41:57 PM »
Ella~ Thank you so much for the information on The War Powers Resolution.  It seems to me that regardless of what acts, bills, resolutions, etc., etc. is passed either with bipartisan or partisan, depending on who has the power balance, the resolution is ONLY as effective if respected, recognized and regarded by the President.  As we have seen, it is not always the case as Ella pointed out.  One man alone should never be able to decide a military attack beginning a war.  That is the reason for democracy, checks and balances, to be certain someone's ideology does not over rule good judgement.

LBJ had his accomplishments and its sad how he summed up his decision/presidency in this, pg.173  
Quote
"I knew from the start that I was bound to be crucified either way I moved," he told Goodwin.  "If I left the woman I really loved-the Great Society--in order to get involved with that bitch of a war on the other side of the world, then I would lose everything at home.  All my programs.  All my hopes to feed the hungry and shelter the homeless...But if I ...let the Communists take over South Vietnam, then I would be seen as a coward and my nation would be seen as an appeaser."  That would yield "a mean and destructive debate, that would shatter my presidency, kill my administration and damage our democracy."

I think LBJ was indeed pressured into going to war, by not only the military, but the news media by this statement he made, pg. 173
Quote
And all he heard from his military advisors, Johnson complained, was "bomb, bomb, bomb," which he was not convinced would do any good at all.  He'd always been wary of military men, he said, because of their thirst for glory: "It's hard to be a hero without a war.  Heroes need battles and bombs and bullets in order to be heroic.  That's why I am suspicious of the military."

I just come away with the impression, that LBJ was not up to being a president.  I wonder why Kennedy chose Johnson as his VP?  

So, on to Nixon and Reagan.....I'm just beginning chapter 10 and have a busy day tomorrow, so I hope to get a chance tonight after going to my two grand- daughters pizza/birthday party to read the next few chapters.

Ciao for now~
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #148 on: September 07, 2012, 05:48:55 PM »
Jean,  We were posting at the same time.  Interesting, indeed!  So, was it easier for Eisenhower to push LBJ into making the decision to go to war because he knew it would not be on his back?  Eisenhower could clearly see the weakness of LBJ.  Did he take advantage of that weakness, knowing LBJ had such admiration and trust in him, as a 5 star general?  Regardless of what Eisenhower's input was, in the end, history writes it as LBJ's war and failure.

Got to run......
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #149 on: September 07, 2012, 07:30:40 PM »
Kennedy needed a Southerner! There is also a rumor that K went to J's hotel room during the convention and offered himthe v.p. slot thinking he'd never take "second place." but J said "thank you, yes." The story goes that Bobby was furious at Jack.

HaroldArnold

  • Posts: 715
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #150 on: September 08, 2012, 10:46:54 AM »
We have now completed our first week of the “President’s Club" discussion, and it is time to move on to the week 2 schedule.  This material comprises Chapters 10 through 14.  If the page numbering system of my I-Pad edition is the same as in the print edition (I think it is) the week’s assignment covers pp 210 -  329.  This material covers U.S. national political events from the election of 1968 through the Nixon and Ford administration that ended in 1976.   This period that included the national elections of 1968 and 1972 may have been the most spectacular, the most colorful politically active period in the history of the United States.  It began with the comeback of Richard Nixon for a second shot at the presidency and the sudden emergence of Ronald Regan as a National political figure.  It ended with the disgraced downfall of Nixon and the short 2 ½ year presidency of Gerald Ford.

Instead of providing a group of question recommending specific discussions points, I suggest we each look to our book  for the particular events involving each of the sitting Presidents and their responses to the political and domestic and national events of their administration.   Also discuss the emergence of new individuals as player (want-to-be Presidents) on the national political stage, particularly Ronald Regan.  And how were the Ex President club member involved during this period.  At times during this period the Club included Hoover, Truman, Eisenhower, Johnson, and Nixon.

Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #151 on: September 08, 2012, 01:21:33 PM »
Yes, HAROLD, time to begin new chapters.

At the very beginning, our authors state that:

"Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan DEFINED Republican politics in America from 1966 until Nixon's death in 1994."

]What a long reign for the republicans and what a long life and a political life, to boot, Richard Nixon
had.  And how very different the two men were.

THE CALIFORNIA BOYS!

You think, HAROLD, that this period "was the most spectacular and most politically active period in the history of the United States."

Why?  The two men or what?

What do the rest of you think?



Ella Gibbons

  • Posts: 2904
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #152 on: September 08, 2012, 01:54:01 PM »
OH, IT'S ON YOUTUBE, I REMEMBER THIS - I don't think he ever got over his anger:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RMSb-tS_OM




mabel1015j

  • Posts: 3656
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #153 on: September 08, 2012, 10:43:19 PM »
Chapter 10 in my book starts on pg 193.

Ella i don't recall a former president ever giving a convention speech, but then conventions are so innocuous i tend forget them immediately. Tom Brokow said last night on Charlie Rose that we have to change the conventions significantly. That we don't need three days of a pep rally, that it diminishes the process. I agree, since we aren't really nominating a candidate any more. However, these two conventions did introduce us to the next generation of possible contenders in each party. I did enjoy that.

Also re: former presidents, not many of them leave office w/ enough prestiege to be able to help a candidate. Sad to say. They really get beaten up as presidents. Bill Clinton has unusual star power, one of the reasons being that he is a great politician, plus he has that great ability to educate us w/ facts - which he seems to have in the computer in his brain and they come trippingly off his tongue - without boring us to death. It's rather astounding that a president who was accused of what he was,  and impeached, could, 12 yrs later, be supporting a Club member in a keynote speech at the convention. I think that speaks clearly to how the country felt about Ken Star and his tactics. Eisenhower and Reagan may have been liked enough to have provided help to a later candidate.

I think Nixon is a very sad character. This brilliant man with so few social/people skills. So rigid, so lacking humor and playfulness and charm. I'm sure you've all heard the story of him walking on the beach in his suit and wing-tip shoes, that seems so symbolic. (a friend of mine whose husband worked in Hoover's FBI office as an atty told me a similar story about J. Edgar going to the beach dressed in suit and tie, OVERCOAT and dress shoes.) i always felt so sorry for Pat Nixon also. Altho recently i've read some stories and heard her secret service man talking about how good she was on foreign trips and it sounded like she enjoyed those.

Lady Bird seemed to have more of a life of her own than Pat Nixon and a stronger self. The First Ladies seem to have a bond as strong, or stronger then, the presidents.

Jean

threadheadnet

  • Posts: 20
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #154 on: September 09, 2012, 12:23:10 AM »
Looking forward to the next installment, Ch 10-14 covering 1968-76, when the Presidents Club finally had a fixed physical location. Interesting that Nixon, who comes across as socially awkward, was the one who chose a small townhouse immediately across from the White House, isn't it?
Kathleen

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #155 on: September 09, 2012, 01:03:06 AM »
I agree with Brokaw, there really is no need for the 3 - 4 nights of speeches for these conventions.  By the time they have the conventions the candidate knows he/she has already won the nomination for their party, so it's a matter of going through the process.  Also, people generally have already made up their minds, and don't want their regularly scheduled programming interrupted all week long.  The candidate should just take one night to accept their nomination, give a speech, nominate their VP,  and let him give a speech.  That would be sufficient.  As for Clinton's facts, I fear the fact checkers the next day showed his figures were not factual.  Obama "needed" Clinton's popularity and experience to help him because the polls are showing over 50% of the American people feel his policies have failed.  He needed Clinton to come out and say, "Not me, or any of his predecessors could have fixed this hole."  It reminds me of LJB needing Eisenhower to come out and back him with the Vietnam war because he had lost the support of the the American people, he too knew Eisenhower's popularity and experience would carry weight. 

Makes me wonder....if there were no President's club, would these past presidents,  who don't like each other, give them so much help and support?  

Learning Nixon lacked in social skills and was not a likeable person, I can only imagine how being a part of "the club" made him feel.  He would finally have a spot among his predecessors for life.  Whether they liked him or not, he would always be in the club.  This had to make him feel good and accepted.

I'm still reading Nixon.  Had a busy Saturday with grandchildren's volleyball and baseball games, and more volleyball for Sunday.

Ciao for now~  



“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

HaroldArnold

  • Posts: 715
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #156 on: September 09, 2012, 11:45:52 AM »
Regarding ex Presidents giving Convention speaches, I too do not recall it happening.  Yet probably it has happened before since some former presidents did have a life after their Presidency. For example,  Looking back to the 19th century take Ulyses S. Grant as an example.  When the 1880 Republican Convention opened Grant with the largest number of pledged delegates was the favorite to win the nomination.  It was a freakish sudden turn to Garfield after his speech to the Convention nominating Grant that Convention suddenly turned to Garfield depriving Grant of being the first 3 term President.   

Today the convention is hardly necessary since the issue is already all but decided by the primary system.  But the Parties today certainly love the advertisement opportunity the conventions provide.  Those speeches are going out at no cost to them.   It is the TV networks that today seem less enthusiastic.  I think there were times this week when the PBS noncommercial network was the only network on the air while the commercial networks  ran their money maker in the earlier prim time hours.   

HaroldArnold

  • Posts: 715
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #157 on: September 09, 2012, 12:12:50 PM »
Regarding the "Club's Fixed Location,"  Can the Brown Stone near the Whitehouse that Nixon had purchased for club members really be considered a fixed location?  According to the book the members rarely;y take advantage of its availability when they are in Washington.  One of the wives refereed to it according to the book, as "a dump. 

Awaiting the sitting President's call the individual members are scattered through the U.S. at their homes in N.Y. City, Texas, Maine. or elsewhere.  True Nixon as President was responsible for promoting the Club's legitimacy and enhancing the perks available to members.  Do you suppose maybe he was looking forward to his own future membership?

threadheadnet

  • Posts: 20
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #158 on: September 09, 2012, 02:22:15 PM »
... According to the book the members rarely;y take advantage of its availability when they are in Washington.  One of the wives refereed to it according to the book, as "a dump. 

Harold, I read that 'dump' comment, too. I'm guessing it came from Barbara Bush, capable of refreshingly honest blurts. Some of our Presidents came from wealth, with multiple properties. But, after living in spacious quarters with lots of help (the other Clubhouse <grin>), I bet a 4-story townhouse *would* feel like a comedown. The property was extensively remodeled during George W Bush's administration. Here's a piece from Time, where the authors work http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2112080,00.html. CBS did a tour last April http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7405062n

What I've read so far, it seems that Presidents carefully manage seeing and being seen, choosing whether to meet in D.C. or elsewhere. Wonder if there's a secret entrance to The Club?




threadheadnet

  • Posts: 20
Re: The Presidents Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy
« Reply #159 on: September 09, 2012, 02:24:41 PM »
Ooops, looks like I goofed when I responded to Harold's comment, so my typing tagged onto his quote. Sorry 'bout that!
Kathleen