End of Your Life Book Club, The ~ by William Schwalbe - March Book Club Online

[Jonathan]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

The End of Your Life Book Club
Will Schwalbe

“That’s one of the things that books do. They help us talk. But they also give us something we all can talk about when we don’t want to talk about ourselves. ”Will Schwalbe In The End of Your Life Book Club, Will and Mary Anne Schwalbe share their hopes and concerns with each other—and rediscover their lives—through their favorite books. Afghanistan Center at Kabul University Mary Anne Schwalbe

Discussion Schedule:
March 1 - 8 --  to page 83 (end of The Hobbit)
March 8 - 15 -- to page 169 (end of The Painted Veil)
March 15 - 22 -- to page 249 (end of Girls Like Us)
March 23 - 31 -- to page 329 (finish)

For Your Consideration
March 1 - 8 --  to page 83 (end of The Hobbit)

To think of throughout: When he describes a book, have you read it?  If yes, how does your take on the book compare with his?  If no, does this make you want to read it?

1.   Do you ever use talking about a book as a tool for indirectly discussing a problem with someone?  Does it work?

2.  Do you agree with Will’s statement – “You can no longer assume that anyone is reading anything”?

3   Do you have a favorite first line, or a first line that you always remember?  Or any one line that has special meaning for you?

4.  What do you think of Mary Anne’s habit of always reading the end of the book first?  Do you ever do that?

5. In making difficult decisions, choose “ the road with the exit ramp”.  Is this a good strategy?  Do you do it this way?

6.   “...favorite books stay with you for your entire life, no matter how long it’s been since you turned the last page.”  Do you have books like that?

7. Of J.R.R. Tolkien and C. S. Lewis: “Everyone seems to like one or the other” not both.  Is this true of you?  Which one do you like?

8. What do you think of “benign neglect" as a method of child-rearing?

Related Links::Pre-Discussion Comments; Will Schwalbe Interview; Women's Refugee Commission

DISCUSSION LEADERS: Pedln &  PatH

So many dear, familiar posters. What a pleasure to be in your company.

From the link in pedln's post: Reading Together

'I privately dubbed our club “The End of Your Life Book Club,” not to remind myself that Mom was dying, but so I would remember that we all are — that you never know what book or conversation will be your last.'

And then he tells us about the books his mother read to him in his childhood! 150 books, authors and titles! For all ages and all occasions. Recreating his mother's life? And the reader is expected to match up the pieces? What a jigsaw. With even a go at denial. A thing is not, may be eastern philosophy, but it certainly sounds like western psychology to me. It seems interesting to me tht some books are intended for entertainment, some for comfort,  and some for answers.

The transcript in the other link is certainly an amazing account of Mary Anne's life.

[JoanP]

My goodness, Pedln! That timeline link is simply astonishing! I just watched the video embedded in that link and came away realizing what an amazing woman she was!
You'd think with all these high-powered demanding positions she held, surely her children would have felt her absence -

And yet this book is a testimony to the kind of mother she was don't you think?
- each of the three children "a story every night."
Will writes that he wasn't aware he was one of the few kids in his class with a working mother.  That says a lot, I think.
He tells us that "books loomed large in their lives."  What I thought important in his memory of those early days was the fact that he remembered Mom and Dad spending hours - whole weekends reading themselves.  He tells us that Mary Anne "was a little amazed at parents who thought their kids should be reading more, but who never read themselves."
I'm going to pass this on to my DILs when they complain about the video games...

Was I that sort of harried mom? Yes, my boys were readers, but was I at the time?  I remember their grade school principal who mandated 20 minutes of reading time every day. Everything stopped, everyone read - from Dr. Miller to the custodian.  This really made an impression on the kids. They always packed a good book for school.

Hey Hats ...good to see you. Please stay a while. We miss you.

[pedln]

And yet this book is a testimony to the kind of mother she was don't you think?

Oh, absolutely.  Definitely a very liberal mom, though I wouldn’t call her permissive.  The kids knew what was expected of them and they pretty much adhered to all that.  There were no limits on TV – they could watch as much as they wanted.  It’s just that there wasn’t that much worth watching.  So they followed the examples of their parents – and read.

As for being one of the few “working” moms in his class, wasn’t it Mary Anne who didn’t like her first oncologist because he asked her if she “worked outside the home?”  I'm thinking I read that in this book.

My kids, while living in Puerto Rico, were somewhat disadvantaged in English language book selection.  The only library near us was our church library, which while quite secular, was geared more to adults.  So my mother, a  supervising teacher, would send them boxes of discarded basel readers – and they loved them.  My son, until he was in high school seemed to read only Boy Scout manuals and handbooks.  My youngest, now in her 40’s, tells me she doesn’t read books, but devotes her free reading time to newspapers (NYT) and periodicals – New Yorker, Atlantic, etc.  I think she's missing out, but can understand that choices must be made.

[hats]

Thank you for the welcome, Ella.

[hats]

PATH, thank you for the link.

[PatH]

For some reason the timeline doesn't work for me; don't know if it's not Mac compatible or if I need some update.

Their childhood seems very appealing to me--left to their own devices, but expected to get to any appointments on their bikes, with a grad student somewhere in the background, vaguely paying attention.

Nobody does that now; everyone is scheduled to the hilt, and safety is too big an issue.

On weekends, the choice of reading or disappearing until supper.  We were a reading family too, lots of times sitting around with everyone's nose in a book.  We even brought books to the dinner table, though we talked then too.

[PatH]

Marjorie Morningstar: Mary Anne lists this as one of her favorite books when growing up, and Schwalbe describes it in some detail.  Have you read it?  Do you agree with his take on the book?  The book came out in 1955.  Mary Anne was 21, so not quite growing up, but still definitely dealing with the issues Marjorie faces: what to do with your life, who to marry, etc.  (Mary Anne married in 1959.)  How do you think the book affected her?

[pedln]

So many dear, familiar posters. What a pleasure to be in your company.

That’s so true, Jonathan.  And you all have your stories to tell, too, and I hope you do.  What books were important when you were growing up?  And your kids?  And what about those moments when thoughts of the days agenda got the better of you – as they did with Mary Anne when she swallowed the dog’s worming pill.

I like Will’s style of mixing the personal with the books.  PatH, I never read Marjorie Morningstar, and it’s been too many years since I saw the movie.  I wonder if Millie Dunnock was more of an influence on her than Marjorie Morningstar. (I just googled Millie and it’s interesting to note that all the pages about her are those primarily associated with Arthur Miller and Elia Kazan.)  I'd never heard of her but it seems she was the first Mrs. Loman, and had had other successful acting stints  before then.

Were  you surprised when you read about Mary Anne's conversation with Rodger, their friend who had been a care giver to a cancer victim?  Perhaps he thought he was being helpful, by being so candid.  And while most of us would want  some idea of what to expect during a serious illness, it seems it would be better to soften the description a bit.  Mary Anne softened her answer to Will, "I didn't love my conversation with Rodger."

[Jonathan]

Books at the dinner table! I'm trying to imagine that. I can see the potentiality of a clash of wills. Did you ever feel that something was being forced down your throat, Pat ? Did you ever wonder later why you felt so hungry? Our author describes the technique for not being disturbed while reading: look totally absorbed in the book.

'mixing the personal with the books' That's a good observation, pedln. I'm completely taken by that aspect of the book. Why is he doing that. How much is he revealing with that? Or is it serving as a smokescreen? What is the book about? His mother? Himself? But he does tell us that this is his story about Mom. The others, his brother and sister, and his father would surely have their own stories to tell, he says in his dedication.

One of us mentioned the phone call Will got from his mother while he was at the bookfair in Europe, informing him about the cancer diagnosis. What can be read into that? I believe she needed support and knew where to get it. I'm sure she must have hesitated, just as I feel that it was probably the first time she ever needed help.

What kind of person gets elected president to something like the Faculty Club at Harvard?

[mabel1015j]

I was sure i had read Marjorie Morningstar or at least saw the movie, after all Gene Kelly and Natale Wood???. Two of my favorites.  But looking at Schwalbe's description, i then went to wiki and read about the story/movie in detail and i don't remember a bit if it!! Maybe i'm thinking of A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, that i know i read and was disappointed in that soap opera. But i was a Herman Woulk fan - Caine Mutiny,etc, so i can't imagine why i wouldn't have read it. Guess i have to add it to the tbr list

My favorite books as a child were Heidi, Black Beauty, Robin Hood, then i got to Nancy Drew, Christie Ames, etc.

[JoanP]

“...favorite books stay with you for your entire life, no matter how long it’s been since you turned the last page.”

Jean...do you mean the nurse series - Cherry Ames?  Helen Wells was my favorite...I'm not sure, but I don't think I missed one of the series in the forties, early fifties.. Then came Anne of Green Gables, etc.   My sister read the Nancy Drew, I loved Cherry Ames (she likes cats, I love dogs)...just as Will loved The Hobbit, his brother, CS Lewis.  "Everyone seems to like one or the other not both." Will, or was it Mary Anne, seemed to be saying that the sort of books kids gravitate towards reveal a lot about the child.  Do you find that's true?  Of course every child I know  today has gone through the Hobbit obsession.  Do you know any who haven't?  What does that say about this generation of kids... I think this book will stay with these kids throughout their lives.

[mabel1015j]

Oh yes Joan Cherry Ames.

[marjifay]

My favorite books as a young girl were the Nancy Drew mysteries and the Tarzan books.  And of course all the Batman and Superman comic books.

Marj

[Ella Gibbons]

That's amusing, JONATHAN!  What kind of a woman is chairman of the Harvard Faculty Club?

What's your opinion?   Mine would be a chatty sort of woman, who likes to be in charge, conversation-oriented; not the bookish person portrayed.

Somehow to me they don't mesh; perhaps it's my personality.   I'm an introvert and have lost myself in books all my life.  I've tried the social scene, disliked it and had very few, what I would call, friends my entire life.  Don't really need them.  Cannot remember when I was on a committee of anything; probably I was when my children were small.

I'll finish the assigned chapters this afternoon.

I probably read Marjorie Morningstar when it came out, it obviously did not make much of an impression on me.



  

[JoanP]

Two things, Ella.
1. I can't think of you as an introvert.  I know, you know yourself better than I do, but still, I think of you as a strong woman with a strong sense of who you are.  I also think of you as someone who is always willing to listen to others, not drown them out with your own opinions.

2. I see Mary Anne Schwalbe the seem way.  She is quick to start a conversation with everyone - strangers on airplanes - and probably in the Harvard Faculty Club.  She strikes up a conversation by asking others about themselves - and then she listens to what they have to say.  Actually she does more than that - watch her.  She goes beyond, solving problems in ways that most would not consider doing.  It's the listening and responding to others that I see as her gift.

Marjikay - you're my sister, Kay, right?  I just knew it from what you liked to read.

[pedln]

JoanP, I'm dittoing you about Ella.  You were posting while I was in WORD.

Ella, I would never think you or anyone else who makes the effort to travel to SeniorNet and SeniorLearn events an introvert.  Just because folks manage well and are happy on their own doesn’t make them introverts.

It’s almost impossible to read this book without closing it periodically and thinking about what you’ve read and how some of that relates to parallels in your own life.  Like the books y ou liked as a child.  Elsie Dinsmore.  Sob, sob, sob.  A friend had raided her grandmother’s book shelf and we devoured them. But it was Caddie Woodlawn, Carol Ryrie Brink’s 19th century Wisconsin heroine who took center stage at my house.  Miss Lynes of 4th grade read it aloud, and I relayed each chapter to my poor captive family at dinnertime.  About the same time I saw the Margaret O’Brien  film Our Vines Have Tender Grapes, also set in my home state of Wisconsin. And for the longest time I was sure those towns were real places, just down the road somewhere from my aunt’s house in Waupaca County. 

Other than The Red Balloon nothing really reigned supreme with my kids (except the Boy Scouts) until my youngest met Encyclopedia Brown. Then her 16-year-old brother took her library copy because he was tired of hearing all about it and wanted to read it himself, causing much consternation and overdue library fines.

[mabel1015j]

1. I can't think of you as an introvert.  I know, you know yourself better than I do, but still, I think of you as a strong woman with a strong sense of who you are.  I also think of you as someone who is always willing to listen to others, not drown them out with your own opinions.

Whoa! I think you may have a misconception of the term introvert. That sounds like the perfect description to me. Introverts simply give out energy when w/ others and therefore need to recoup that energy at intervals, that's the reason they disappear, or prefer to be alone more often then extraverts (who gain energy by being w/ others, which is why they like to have LOTS of people around and are looking for the next party.) It doesn't mean they are shy or always quiet, altho some are. They tend to be introspective, observant and very good listeners.

 In a previous discussion on the subject, several of us who i would consider strong personalities w/ a strong sense of ourselves acknowledged we were introverts. In reading the later assigned pages last night i was thinking that this whole Schwalbe family may be introverts.  

[pedln]

i was thinking that this whole Schwalbe family may be introverts.

That's an interesting perspective, Jean. It seems there are several definitions of introvert, and many degrees of introversion (and extroversion).  Sometimes it's been used as a negative description with extrovert being used as a positive one.  And that really isn't the case.  The Schwalbe family may very well be introspective, but they definitely reach out to others and enjoy social celebrations.

I had never heard the term ambivert, but would guess that more fall into that description than either introvert or extrovert.

An ambivert is moderately comfortable with groups and social interaction, but also can enjoy time alone, away from a crowd.

[marcie]

There's an interesting, short article about introverts and extroverts as the concepts relate to leadership at http://www.forbes.com/sites/karlmoore/2012/08/22/introverts-no-longer-the-quiet-followers-of-extroverts/

The article mentions the recent book Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking by Susan Cain.

[JoanP]

Oh my, where is Ella?  I think we need her thoughts on Intro/Extro-verts after reading this yesterday's comments.

Jean, I've been thinking hard about what you said - "Introverts simply give out energy when w/ others and therefore need to recoup that energy at intervals, that's the reason they disappear, or prefer to be alone more often then extraverts (who gain energy by being w/ others, which is why they like to have LOTS of people around and are looking for the next party.) ... They tend to be introspective, observant and very good listeners."

From the book Marcie posted - Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking-

"At least one-third of the people we know are introverts. They are the ones who prefer listening to speaking; who innovate and create but dislike self-promotion"

I'm wondering who would want to admit to being an extravert?

Would you consider yourself an introvert rather than an introvert? Do you think all who are really into reading are introverts?

What of those who like to talk about what they are reading - who seek others to share ideas from what they are reading?  (I like your term, "ambiverts,"  Pedln !)  I wonder what Carl Jung would say - he's the one who came up with intro/extraverts...He says that Introvert/extravert are at each end of the spectrum.

"The whole Schwalbe family - introverts?"  Do you agree with Jean?

Mary Anne agrees that a blog is a practical way to keep in touch with those who are concerned about her, but she thinks Will should write it for her.  As it turns out, she is writing the blog...under his name.  He is her "ghost writer."  What does that say about her?

" Dad had proposed to mom on their first date - and she said yes."  Introverts?



 

[Jonathan]

The book, it seems, is an attempt at introversion - something new, I'm guessing, among the Schwalbes. What busy lives. Brother is a film producer. Sister is fighting the spread of tuberculosis around the world. Dad represents conducters, singers, and musicians. Mom - well,

'If our family was an airline, Mom was the hub...who directed the traffic flow and determined priorities...cleared for takeoff or landing....' p10 And yet, 'Books focused her mind, calmed her, took her outside herself.'

'The truth is tha people never realize their lives are about to change in unfamiliar ways....' p9

'I realize now that all of us had reached a mad, feverish pitch of activity in the days leading up to Mom's diagnosis.' p23

There must be a bit of introversion in all of us. The question is, why do we read? I can't believe my luck. Yesterday browsing in my favorite hangout, the book corner at the thrift shop, I picked up Crossing to Safety, and Suite Francaise. Another quote:

' "You can only do what you can, and what doesn't get done, just doesn't get done." Mom was forever giving advice that she would never herself take." p23

[Jonathan]

I'm trying to remember my earliest reading. I enjoyed it but I preferred being out of doors with my chums. We all read a lot of the 'True' stuff: crime, cowboys, adventure generally. But two books have stayed with me. A Zane Grey, and the Bible. We were challenged in Sunday School to read the Bible from cover to cover. I must have been about twelve. I did it! I got the prize. Lasting impressions from both books. I will admit, the psalms at that age were like wheat fields, see one, you've seen them all. Life was uncomplicated at twelve.

[mabel1015j]

Yes, there is a spectrum from strongly introverted to neutral, to strongly extraverted. People see me as an extravert because they see me being comfortable speaking in front of groups, facilitating discussions, seemingly comfortable in social situations, being willing to speak up, but i love my quiet, alone time and i TAKE it. I'm a moderate introvert. Most of us have a bit of both in us, but have a preference - a little to a lot- toward one behavior or the other. Obama obviously has a preference for introversion, altho he seems outgoing in the situations when we see him on tv. Bill Clinton is an obvious extravert, no qualification needed.   

Yes, there has been a couple books and articles touting introverts lately. They counter the push of the American idea that everyone should be social, outgoing, fun! Children are encouraged to "go play w/ the other children," to be participative in sports, dance, music, groups of all kinds. My Dad accused me of being lazy bcs i liked to read or be contemplative. If i wasn't doing something physical, in his mind i was being lazy.

It's a very interesting concept to consider (said by a moderate introvert )

Jean

[Ella Gibbons]

I took the Myers-Briggs test some years ago while working at OSU; a psychology PHD student graded it for me and advised that I am sitting on the fence.

Perhaps we all are?  I took the little test MARCIE posted and I am an "I"  -  my daughter did not believe me when I suggested to her that she also was one until she took the MB and tested the same.

The Schwalbes introverts?  I wouldn't believe so; but it's too complicated for most of us to figure out and does it matter?   Would we change who we are?

"CHUMS?"  JONATHAN!  Oh, British I think.

 Life as a child was  uncomplicated for most of us - the teens terrible.  All those decisions; what am I going to do with the rest of my life?  

I cannot understand how Mary Anne, mother of three, into endless projects, working fulltime, could still have time to "spend hours every week reading and whole weekend days."  p. 68  Not what working mothers today describe as their lives.  I think she had a parttime housekeeper?  Possibly more help?

I've read a good many of the books in this chapter (the Hobbit one)  haven't read a book specifically about Paul Revere though, must look one up.   Fascinated (still) by the Autobiography of Malcolm X (perhaps we could discuss sometime).

We have a Current Events discussion group in my retirement home and sometimes our discussion centers on racism.   We all believe it still exists as strong as ever.  What do you believe?

Sometimes, methinks (and here I am subjecting myself to all kinds of criticism) that "Mom" Shwalbe is too good to be true?   A son's love, etc.

[mabel1015j]

I love his paragraph on "printed books" on pg 42 & 43..."One of the things i love about bound books is their sheer physicality. Electronic books live out of sight and out of mind. But printed books have a body presence. Sure, sometimes they elude you by hiding in improbable places: in a box full of old picture frames, say, or in the laundry basket, wrapped in a sweatshirt. But at other times they'll confront you and you'll literally stumble over some tomes you hadn't thought about in weeks or years. I often seek electronic books, but they never come to me. They may make me feel, but i can't feel them. They are all soul with no flesh, no texture, no weight. They can get into your head, but can't whack you upside it."

I never found a book in the laundry basket, but i have been, and like being, confronted by books at the library. I haven't yet gotten an ebook from the library and i think it is because i can't hold the book in my hand and have it "talk" to me. I have walked past a bookshelf in my house and seen a book title and thought "I need to read that again."

Our library put out the idea that they were going to "store" some books that didn't get much readership, that patrons could ask for them to be retrieved. What a howl went up about that. People love walking by the shelves and latching on to a choice book they would never have thought to ask for - can't do that w/ ebooks.

Jean

[PatH]

I tested out as an introvert--quite right.  I'm shy and retiring, need a few good friends and some social contact, but am content to spend a lot of time alone--reading books of course.

Ella, I gather a lot of scientists question the accuracy of the Myers-Briggs test, though it's certainly widely used.

[pedln]

Well, I took the test and ended up with a score of E/I, which was then described as an Ambivert, partaking of the best of both worlds. The two terms seem to describe one’s preferences as opposed to one’s actions.   Actually, I prefer descriptions to labels.

Jonathan, what a coup – Crossing to Safety and Suite Francaise. And what an accomplishment at age twelve – reading the entire Bible.  Your post sent me to our not-so-pristine neglected basement library to see if the Stegner might be there.  But no, I’m sure I passed it on.  But Hurlbut’s Story of the Bible, loose pages, loose cover and all was  on the shelf.  It had belonged to my father’s sister, published in 1904. I loved reading it so she let me take it.  I doubt I read all 168 stories.

Electronic books live out of sight and out of mind.

Perhaps, but don’t you love it when you a free one. Or,upon hearing about a book, “I’d like to read that right now,” and voila – it appears.

Ella, I remember Esther Forbes’  Johnny Tremain because we read it as a class in Ninth grade English. And as I recall, it was well-received.  Whether it was a challenging enough for high school freshmen, I don’t know.  But I know we read other books and I don’t remember the titles. I’d like to read her biography of Paul Revere, which won a Pulitzer in 1942.

This book is sending me in many directions.  Marjorie Morningstar to Herman Wouk, then to Winds of War and War and Remebrance.  I remember the latter, but have no recollection of Winds of War, so have ordered the first disc of its mini-series from Netflix.

I'll be at the library tomorrow, so will pick up Ian McEwan's On Chesil Beach.  Will says it can be read in an afternoon.  We shall see.

[JoanP]

I just got around to taking the little quiz in the link Marcie posted - that was difficult!  True and False were not always satisfactory choices.  I thought sure I'd turn out to be an Ambivert - like you, Pedln.  But no, I was an "I"...

There were several books I thought of picking up at the library this afternoon.  Maybe it will be  Ian McEwan's On Chesil Beach.   Pedln and I can share observations.  I've read Atonement - have his latest, Sweet Tooth on the TBR pile... but I really want to get into the books Will and his mom are reading.  By the way, I wish we could all be on the watch for a good book for a group discussion - the May Book Club Online, possibly? (No, Jonathan, not Fear of Flying !   I hope you have had a chance to VOTE FOR APRIL Book Club selection...  the poll just opened yesterday - and already, there's a three way tie!

Some of us did just read The Hobbit together - I am struck by the parallels, the themes running through these books they swap.   Mom says of Bilbo when he was left alone in complete silence and darkness - people and hobbits can find strength they didn't know they had.  In Crossing to  Safety we see the dying character, Charity Lang compelled to go ahead with any plan she'd made - whether feeling up to it or not.  Sound familiar?  Bilbo Baggins?  Mary Anne Stegner?

When daughter Nina hesitates to go through with a move to Geneva at a time like this, Mary Anne gives her the same advice she's always given her children.  Make the choice that has an exit ramp.  Does Mary Anne have such a plan?   I'm wondering if we are going to hear more about this ramp in her future.

[JoanP]

A question about those electronic books downloaded on IPad - and/or other similar devises, Jean.  Is there a way one can delete them?  Or do they just accumulate - out of site, out of mind?
  

Sometimes, methinks (and here I am subjecting myself to all kinds of criticism) that "Mom" Shwalbe is too good to be true?   A son's love, etc.

I know exactly what you mean, Ella.  The whole family sounds too good to be true - bigger than life.  And yet, there is so much about them that is true - verifiable. I admit to feeling intimidated.  Especially by Mary Anne.  Where does she find the time and energy to do all she does.  Where can I tap into some of that?
 Perhaps Will, out of his great love and admiration for his mother, has made her into a much braver person than she was.  She says she believes there are things that should be kept to oneself... I think we can hear her voice in the books she chooses and her reasons for loving them.  The question is, does Will hear all she is saying, her secrets?

[pedln]

Not what working mothers today describe as their lives.  I think she had a parttime housekeeper?  Possibly more help? 

(Ella)

Well, we know she had Mrs. Murphy, she of the delicious meatloaf until her stroke.

But I wonder if Mary Anne was able to handle it all because she didn’t need to be involved in every aspect of each child’s life.  They had their bikes, they got to various appointments.  And when they were in high school, Will and his brother were at boarding schools, not living at home.

JoanP, 

Make the choice that has an exit ramp.  I'm wondering if we are going to hear more about this ramp in the future.

Along with that is ask yourself, “What’s the best that  will come from this, and what’s the worst?”  And on p. 78 “Her new mantra was a piece of wisdom given her by a friend who specialize in pallative care – Make Plans, Cancel Them.”  Not quite the same as an exit ramp, but workable.

[mabel1015j]

Pg 70 - "did you ever get obsessed about a book?"

Have you?

I'm not an obssessive kind of person, but there are a few books that i really liked. Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy and The Dollmaker by Henrietta Arnow are 2 of my favorite fiction books. Their characters are wonderful; both authors write terrific dialect so i could really "hear" the characters "talking." PoT is, of course, set in South Carolina and SC is a character in the book. TD is set in the hills of Appalachia and the city of Detroit during WWII, again the environment is key to the story. Both have wonderful human dilemmas and given the reader a lot to think about.

For non-fiction, On Understanding Woman by Mary Beard, a mid-twentieth century historian of the famous Beard family historians, wrote a terrific history of women from hunter-gatherers to 20th century, giving a persective that we didn't learn in our high school or college history courses and very readable. Doris Kearns Goodman's No Ordinary Time, about the Franklin Roosevelts during the WWII years reads like a novel. I loved it.

Jean

[Ella Gibbons]

My eye surgery is not cataracts, someone asked about it.  Been there, done there, some years ago.

I'm having a cornea transplant.; otherwise I will lose the sight in my right eye.  Can  you imagine, I'll be a donor recipient!  I have the fact that any part of me can be donated on my driver's license, if any part is at all worthwhile at the age of 85!

Will wel hear more about Mary Anne's living will or her plans for death, her "exit ramp", as Pedlin called it.  I have one, and my husband did also, but it was not used.  He died in two days at the hospital.

Dying should be talked about more, it is something we all face or plan for; Babi planned to say goodbye to us when she had her surgery.  Wasn't that a grand gesture!

[Ella Gibbons]

JEAN, No, I cannot say I get obsessed by a book.   At times, I cannot put a mystery down, I must know who did it.  But I forget them after I read them, it's entertainment.

I read Goodwin's book, isn't she good.  We discussed one of her books here some years ago, what was it?  I forget so many of them.

I was at the library this morning and brought home two audio books for my surgery, I must lay on my back for two days and stare at the ceiling the doctor informed me, sounds medieval  I got McCullough's Paris book, his latest, to listen to.

[PatH]

I read Goodwin's book, isn't she good.  We discussed one of her books here some years ago, what was it?  I forget so many of them.

I can't ever forget that one; it was Team of Rivals.  You and I co-led, and it was the first time I had ever led or co-led a discussion, so it made a big impression.

[Jonathan]

That was one ot the best discussions here, Pat, thanks to you and Ella. Goodwin certainly is a good historian.

I've just come home with an unusual book. It won a prize this week as the best literary non-fiction by a Canadian author. He has taught at Yale, but now teaches U.S. history at Cambridge. (England, not the Cambridge, Mass, in our book). Here's a title for you: Sword of the Spirit, Shield of Faith: Religion in American War and Diplomacy.

Mary Anne's exit ramp policy alway makes me think of the preoccupation with an exit strategy among American policy makers since Viet Nam. I don't want it be a spoiler, but Mary Anne was prepared to change endings to suit her.

[mabel1015j]

Just read a good first line of a novel, not profound, but one that made me smile.........."I don't know why we gotta sit here baking in your car in the middle of the day, in the middle of the summer, in the middle of this crummy neighborhood!" .

It's in Janet Evanovich's most recent Stephanie Plum mystery, Notorious Nineteen, and if you know the series, you know it's Lulu w/out having to read any further! And as i said, it made me smile, which is the number one reason i read this series. Often they make me laugh outloud!

Jean

[PatH]

Thanks, Jonathan.  That was a good book.

Tee hee, Jean.  Yes, that's Lula, all right.

[PatH]

Mary Anne's bravery--I noticed one coping mechanism.  After the spiritual health survey woman first talks to Mary Anne, MA says she didn't realize she had Stage Four cancer even though she knew the cancer had spread.  This sort of deliberate not connecting the dots between two known facts is a way of easing yourself gradually into something scary, while on some level you are coming to terms with it.

[marcie]

Pat, I agree. Mary Anne does seem to be able to "control" a lot of what's in her environment. According to Will, her children are afraid to alter her expectations in any way. He says that once Mary Anne has set the plans for any event, they dare not alter them. She seems very kind but her kindness could potentially be seen by some as an invasion of their privacy and her exertion of control over their lives too.

[pedln]

One of my regrets here on SeniorLearn -- that I did not read Team of Rivals with the group.   I got the book, still on the shelf.  I see Doris Kearns Goodwin frequently on TV, mainly Morning Joe and Meet the Press.  She comes across as informative and authoritive in a very pleasing way.

Ella, when is your eye surgery?  I'm glad you have good tapes to listen to.  Perhaps there will be interesting things, a little gossip, etc. going on in the rest of yur building, and your neighbors can come and tell you the news.  We here will be thinking about you and wishing you the best for a speedy and successful procedure.

Marcie, I think one reason the children hesitate to alter Mary ANne's plans is that one plan hinges on another -- i.e. "If we can't go a two, we'll miss seeing the so and sos"  Perhaps she tends to overplan