Author Topic: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online  (Read 158621 times)

ALF43

  • Posts: 1360
Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #360 on: June 08, 2009, 12:33:19 PM »
The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome to join in.





(These topics are only here to spark conversation, choose one or suggest your own and let's discuss:)
Week  2: Through Chapter 16:
The Game's Afoot!


1. What an exciting section! So many clues, so many mysteries!! What do you want to talk about first?
2. Who do you think was in the blue and white sailboat?
3. What cult do you think Iusta belongs to?
4. What is the meaning of the three squares, first at the table and then in the mail? Who do you think is sending them?
5. What do you think is Maria's real interest in the project?
6. How many themes of rebirth and resurrection are there in this section?
7. Can you shed some light on any of the following?
----Parthenope
----Agrai Mysteries
----Oxyrhynchus Project
----Petronii
----The Sibyl of Cumae
----Isis/ Apuleius
----Wilhelmina Jashemski

8. This would make a great movie. Who would you cast in the parts? Who do you see as Simon, John Lyros, Elgin and Sophie particularly?
9. How would you characterize the atmosphere on Capri?
10. What do you think John Lyros is actually after?
11. What did you like best in this section?
12. "We're all hungry for ritual, to experience something beyond the banality of everyday life, to stand outside of ourselves..." (Simon on page 150).  When you think about it, who in this book is NOT in this condition? Why?
[/b]


The Rape of Persephone
Bernini 1621-24.
 Rome (Villa Borghese)




Discussion Leaders: Andrea & Ginny


Floor Plan of the Villa of the Papyri by Karl Weber, 1750-.




New! If you'd like to borrow Gaetano Capasso's DVD showing the reconstruction of the Villa of the Papyri and Library, email your mailing address to gvinesc@gmail.com and we'll pass it around!




Quote
Andrea, enjoy the beach!! We'll miss you but I know you are fomenting tons of thoughts for the discussion.

Well, like McArthur, I have returned and must confess I hadn’t the time to foment much of anything, much less my thoughts.  It has taken me all morning to read these studious posts and have many comments to make from the past 4 days.  I am however going to begin by focusing on the most recent comments on this page.

Stephanie says:
Quote
I still have problems with the fact that from the very first page, Eli was on her mind. Had he stayed on her mind for however long it had been?? She obviously has strong emotions still. No idea why, since he sounds like a first class creep.
[/quote]

That surprised me as I have never seen him as a first class creep; a little strange maybe as he became more deeply involved in the Tetratrys cult but she truly loved him.  They shared many things including the drownings of their close family members, the death of their child and their love.  He just got enamoured and fascinated with this crazy cult and lost a piece of himself.
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

Gumtree

  • Posts: 2741
Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #361 on: June 08, 2009, 12:33:38 PM »
Winsumm I think the Flanders Fields poppy and the French poppy are one and the same; they're a lovely clear red- -  the Welsh poppy is a blue poppy and also lovely...but there are so many varieties it hard to know which is which - and they seem to crossbreed and produce good seed which doesn't help in identifying them.
Reading is an art and the reader an artist. Holbrook Jackson

ginny

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #362 on: June 08, 2009, 03:16:01 PM »
Isn't this just the most fabulous section? Talk about a Disney ride, my head was literally spinning. Where to START? Who do you trust now?

I love the conceit here and I love what she did, and I actually gasped, did she have THREE parallels going here at one point? Just good fun!

Very very clever.

On the poppies, they are all  over Rome, and also Pompeii and last year there were men picking them, in somewhat dangerous circumstances, on top of a wall with a  steep slope from the top of it, with grins, it stopped me. But I understood that the opium poppy was full like a peony, not single like the ones I saw in Pompeii or here in Rome:

So what would the OPIUM poppy really look like?  Is this one? Wikipedia is no help they say it's full and then  show a red and a white single.

On the Sibyl of Cumae, great stuff bellamarie! I love the story of the  Sibylline Books!  Don't mess with the Sibyl.

My favorite  story from the Satyricon  is that Apollo was going to grant her a wish, if she'd take him as a lover,  and she asked for as many years of life as there were grains of sand  in  a pile of sweepings where they were. She forgot  to ask for eternal youth, however, and the grains numbered 1,000, and so she hung in a bottle, withered and sere, for 900 years,  and when children asked her what she wanted she replied,  "I want to die."

Quite a lot of variations in the tales of the Sibyl, but all fantastically interesting.

Here is the entrance to her cave through the sacred groves:


And here is the inside of the "cave" which, because of its precision, is thought to be something else entirely. But the area is evocative and in some places spooky.



It's always a shock to realize that Michelangelo painted 5 Sibyls in the Sistine Chapel!!

Here's his conception of our girl, the Cumean  Sibyl:



I guess that was pre hanging in a bottle.



And here's his view of the Delphic Sibyl.


The Vatican website explains why they are there:

http://mv.vatican.va/3_EN/pages/CSN/CSN_Volta_SibProf.html


Welcome back, Andrea!!

Now if I could only spell  Sibyl! :)  What about those CARDS? Who is sending them? What do the symbols mean ON them? Whoopee the game's afoot. I love this section.

Lots more to say here, yes Pedln, Margie is right and you were too on the vadimonium: good one!  We might need to review the facts and the fiction here, Justa did not lose her case to Calatoria in real life but she does in the book, that's another Real or  Fiction entry  for our page in the heading. Anybody else got the  Deiss?


JudeS

  • Posts: 1162
Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #363 on: June 08, 2009, 03:18:03 PM »
My last remarks on Poppies. (I could get carried away on the subject)

When I lived in Israel the hills were covered in large red Poppies from March to May. In America it is known as the Corn Poppy and its latin name is papaver subspiriforme.It is a large , gorgous red flower.

Of course  I remember Kubla Khan but for me the poem," In Flanders Fields' by Joel McCrae has been an all time favorite.  I even went to Flanders to see the poppies growing among the thousands of Soldier's crosses marking the places of the dead soldiers.
 We had to learn it by heart in school.  Did anyone else?  Remember how it starts?

In Flanders Fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row

and it ends:
We shall not sleep though poppies grow
 In Flanders fields.

I promise to stick to the real questions from here on out.

ALF43

  • Posts: 1360
Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #364 on: June 08, 2009, 03:21:23 PM »
Ginny, what a great job you and Pat did with this heading, I love it.   

Frybaby- How interesting is this crazy court case of Iusta's? 
I've spent the better part of an hour sifting through the link that you provided, describing the 18 pages of evidence and the controversy that followed the suit.
 It is my understanding, according to a source that Ginny quoted (Guiess or Deiss?) that Vesuvius erupted prior to the ordered appearance in court.

Quote
If the parties involved in a lawsuit must reappear in court at a later date, the vadimonium is a promise to return at the specified date. If they do not, they are subject to a fine.
After the eruption of Vesuvius and the ultimate death of said parties, it matters not, right?

 Who knows?  Remember we must keep in mind that this is a book of fiction culminating from a few known facts  (and in our case some questionable facts.)

I believe that there were two lawsuits involved, the first being between Vitalis, Iusta's mother and Gaius.  The result of that case was that she was granted her freedom but Calatoria the wife of Gaius demanded that Iusta be returned to the household.  she claimed to want compensation for the child.  She certainly could not admit to wanting the property that she might inherit.


Mippy and BellaMarie have cast their votes for the audition. ;D

Winsumm, I think Tom Cruise is the guy you're trying to remember from Rainman and I agree with that choice 100%.
 
I find all of your choices interesting, particularly Julia Roberts.  If she would accept that role, my husband would even agree to attend the movie with me.[/color]

My computer has been acting weird so I'll post this and come right back with another thought.
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #365 on: June 08, 2009, 03:31:14 PM »
winsummm...
Quote
now about those movie stars all are perfect except tom cruise who doesn't look jewish enough, but you can never tell I guess.  ethicc appeaances don't tell the story anymore although I thik a real boo boo was gregory peck in GENELEMANS AGREEMENT. a good italian actor like Robert de  niro would do only he's too old now.  senior moment but I'm trying for the guy in the rainman. . .he would do as I remember that Ely is slight and small?  I wondered why our tall heroine found him romantic.

Oh winsummm...My favorite actor of all is Tom Cruise, he is full of mystery, romance and adventure.  If he can pull of a German-Nazi in the Valykerie and the very mysterious dark character in Eyes Wide Shut, change into characters in Mission Impossible...he can pull off Ely.  And he isn't very tall either. 

If you are thinking Dustin Hoffman in Rainman, I think he is too old also.  Seems our book of characters are ranging in the early 20's - possibly early 40's if we can go by the amount of schooling they have completed and their descriptions.  I have to tell you, I had the wrong actor for Simon, I was thinking of the movie "The Talented Mr. Ripley" with Jude law and Matt Damon, who were gay, Leonardo did not play in that movie.  My suspicions are Simon is a homosexual along, John Lyros and others.  That's the reason for all the jealous looks....lolol

And now that I have opened that can of worms, or as Ginny would say, the Elephant in the room.....I have to share this research I found.

I went searching for anything on our dear Count Jacques d' Adelsward Fersen.
This site:   http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/guide_pey.htm 
lead me to this article which we learn about Count Jacques ' Adelsward  de Fersen being  homsexual.

I must say when going on a search in that area, I advise some caution. lolol  I will put in paragraphs from the article but not all of it since it is quite lengthy.  Feel free to go read it in its entirety.

The Importance of Being Peyrefitte
 By Roger Moody 

The Guide (Boston, Massachusetts) May 2002

Now here's a coincidence -­ in November 2000, the 93-year-old Roger Peyrefitte died in France -­ a century to the very month that Oscar Wilde threw off his own mortal coils in that same country. Both were inveterate gossipers, raconteurs, and poseurs. Men of noted sartorial elegance, adherents of the good life, they strutted the streets and the salons of respectable society, firing fusillades of sometimes dubious taste and egotistical bon mots (Oscar declared nothing but his genius; Roger claimed he was one of only two true humanists left in France). They were both bisexuals who advocated passionate romantic relationships between older and younger males, while often pursuing their partners in the gutter -­ and getting caught.

But here the comparison fades. While Oscar claimed to have put his genius into his life, Roger spent 50 years painstakingly inscribing his into books. During Wilde's lifetime, the "love that dare not speak its name" was almost exactly that. In contrast Peyrefitte trumpeted it from the Parisian rooftops. From there, he swooped down Zeus-like on often-willing Ganymedes, gathering them from the hillsides of Greece, Taormina, and La Touraine, the dingy cinemas of Naples, Rome, and Paris, and the beaches and squares of colonized north Africa. Surprisingly, Peyrefitte never ended up in court on either sex or libel charges, though he was several times arrested. On such occasions, he would shamelessly flash his credentials as an ex-diplomat, or drop evocative names (a distant cousin was the Gaullist minister of Education, Alain Peyrfitte).

With the publication in 1944 of his first book Special Friendships, Peyrefitte at 37 became an overnight sensation, winning the prestigious Prix Theophraste-Renaudoux, and just missing the Prix Goncourt itself. This eloquent and gripping account of the passion between an older and younger schoolboy -­ violently thwarted by the creepy Father de Trennes, himself secretly in lust for the younger 13-year-old -­ has surely never been bettered, though scores have tried. Friendships was based on his Peyrefitte's own experiences at a Catholic college, and triangular, intergenerational emotional relationships were to become the template for some of his most affecting output.

From the early 1950s until the '70s, Roger mercilessly trounced or satirized, in turn, the old French royal family (The Prince's Person), lubricious, scheming Catholic clergy (The Keys of Saint Peter), the freemasons (Les fils de la lumiere) and the diplomatic corps (Les Ambassades and La Fin des Ambassades). Both anti-semitism and J. Paul Getty were targeted in The Jews, followed by the French nation as a whole (Des Francais) and then the USA (Ironically Les Americains was the only work for which he had to issue a public apology­ thanks to libel action by that formidable gay icon, Marlene Dietrich). 

Meanwhile, Peyrefitte was also crafting slimmer, somewhat less tendentious, profiles of then little-known homosexual personages. He claimed -­ with some justification -­ to have rediscovered the erotic photography of Baron von Gloeden (Les Amours Singulieres published in 1949). He also brought to wide public attention the escapades of another Mediterranean sexual refugee, Count Jacques Adelsward de Fersen, the "Exile of Capri."

Before he turned 70, Peyrefitte had established himself as one of Europe's leading literary hitmen. In particular there seemed no limit to his gay "outings." These included a Vatican-load of popes and cardinals, the famous Club Mediteranee  (who but Peyrefittee would dare reveal that this was originally a group of boy-loving "sex tourists"?) and numerous closeted contemporaries.

For more than 30 years, Roger turned his pen to recycling almost any "revelation." Some proved sound, but others were little more than "purple pap."
_______________________________________________________

Can you imagine if Phinea's trunk held scrolls outing famous royalty and clergy as far back as his ages?   Whoa.... I can see why Maria is there with such disdain and interest.  This plot thickens and has more twists and turns then I can keep up with. I am beginning to feel like Linda Blair in "The Excorsist."

And talk about "tarnishing one's belief in their religions" how about royalty, governments, etc. etc.  I wonder it the Sibylline Books has any of this in them?

Ciao for now..........

“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

CarolGoodman

  • Posts: 22
Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #366 on: June 08, 2009, 03:45:38 PM »
QUESTION FOR CAROL

Thank you, Carol, for all those answers.  Those of us who don't write novels are always interested in how the mind of the writer works--at least I am.  Your editor must be helpful to you what with making sure that you tie up important ends!  

Q. for Carol:  How much preparatory reading do you do for your novels?  I imagine it varies with different books, but am curious especially about this one.


Okay, I think I finally figured out how to reply to each individual question!  I'm awed by the depth of the reading you guys have done ...  as for the reading I do when I'm preparing ...

Yes, I do a lot for each book and I think I did the most for this one.   I read up on Pompeii and Herculaneum, of course.  HERCULANEUM: ITALY'S BURIED TREASURE by Joseph Jay Deiss, was one of my favorite sources, and Wilhemina Jashemski's book on the gardens of Pompeii and Herculaneum was invaluable and inspired Lee's poem that Sophie supposedly writes to Elgin.  I read about ancient mystery cults and Pythagoreanism (Lee has been researching Pythagoras for years so I borrowed a lot of his books) and Neapolitan mythology and folklore.  An earlier post mentioned Ovid so I should say that I've kept THE METAMORPHOSES next to my desk since I wrote LAKE OF DEAD LANGUAGES and have often used it as a source of allusion and inspiration.  Oh, and I also remember that I read a number of Stephen Saylor's mystery novels set in ancient Rome. He's my stepdaughter Nora's favorite  author and I think he does the Roman time period wonderfully.  There's probably a lot else that I'm forgetting right now.  Reading for research is one of my favorite parts of being a writer.  It gives me an excuse to become totally obsessed with a subject and know it's all for a reason.  I think it's the part of me that sort of still wishes I'd gone on to get a Ph D, but in a way I think this is more fun, because I get to obsess about one subject or time period for a year or so and then move on to something a little different.  Since my novels often use similar themes of mythology and folklore, though, I find that the research for one often sets up the reading for the next book.  

bellamarie

  • Posts: 4147
Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #367 on: June 08, 2009, 03:48:40 PM »
Steph, don't count Ely out as a creep too soon.  My suspicions after reading these pages tell me he is the person helping Elgin uncover the cult.  Ely had to become a member in order to get close inside to find out what really is going on.  I suspect my hero and heroine Tom/Ely and Julia/Sophie will have their happily ever after.

Now if I can only figure out Agnes's role.  I pretty much have everyone else figured out.  At least I think.... :o  This would make a terrific movie.

Welcome back Andrea, we truly missed you.  I have a feeling you will be all caught up in no time.

Ciao for now................
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

ALF43

  • Posts: 1360
Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #368 on: June 08, 2009, 03:51:06 PM »
Jude, you jump in here with anything at all you wish to post.

Ginny, holy smokes those pictures are amazing and the Sibylinne story- yuk, how awful!  Granted 1000 years and forgetting to ask for eternal life while you hang around in a bottle. EWWWWWWWWWWW
Be careful what you wish for, huh?

Babi-
Quote
When children are belittled constantly growing up, it's more common for them to develop a very low self esteem. Others become determined to prove the predictions wrong. Perhaps it made a difference here that there was a mother who, for all her weaknesses, did not denigrate her like her grandparents did. It enabled her to see that her grandparents could be wrong.

Sophie was a blameless child who had been abandoned and orphaned at an early age and was fortunate enough to have the love and support of her aunt M'Lou who adored her, offering advice and council.  this allowed her to perceive her own righteousness and worth.  M'Lou excelled at offering meaningful praise and recognition in spite of those detestable grandparents.  She commuted from her nursing job to tend to Sophie so that she wouldn't have to "absorb the brunt of the grandparent's expectatins and regrets alone."  
I think that is why she has been added as a character in our story.  She gives credibility to Sophie's affectionate and kindhearted nature.

I personally like Sophie.  I think that she shows true grit and determination.  Against all odds, she persevered and remained steadfast.  Was she foolish to agree to travel to Rome when she barely could breath?  Yep, but if I were in her shoes, I know dang well I would have agreed as well.  Let us not forget that ANOXIA plays a roll in her delerium as well.  Her oxygen levels have been depleted, resulting in the brain cells not getting the required amount of O2 delivery and causing her to do some ghastly and dreadful things.  Also the combination of drugs for pain in her system would be instrumental in her mental confusion.
 
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

CarolGoodman

  • Posts: 22
Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #369 on: June 08, 2009, 03:56:42 PM »
SPOILER ALERT -DO NOT READ NOW  IF YOU HAVE NOT READ TO THE END.

QUESTION FOR CAROL

I love the interesting dialog and the very many imaginative details that are included in the novel.

Carol, I'm wondering how you create the characters in your book. Do you imagine them in some detail as real people and then decide what they might do or say or do you create their words and actions more as they relate to events in the plot? Or...?

I like to think that the characters become organic enough that I'm not pushing them around to fill a place in the plot, but following what a person like that would be likely to do or say next.  At least for the more important characters.  Certainly some of the characters in this book surprised me.  For instance, I had no idea that Agnes was the villain until Sophie was down in the pit and Agnes closed the stone over her!  In fact, Agnes was originally somewhat styled after my beloved step-daughter, so I had no idea she was BAD!  After I decided that Agnes was in league with Ely I thought I'd have to go back and make a lot of changes to prepare the reader for that, but when I went back I found that oddly enough there were a lot of "clues" to Agnes's more sinister personality already in the book, as if I'd always known she was up to no good!  

ALF43

  • Posts: 1360
Question for Carol
« Reply #370 on: June 08, 2009, 04:01:07 PM »
Carol, bless you, there you are.  Remember if you get stumped with our wonderful site here, Ginny, Marcie or I am here for the asking.  Please feel comfortable enough to ask us for what ever you  might need.

I love this: Since my novels often use similar themes of mythology and folklore, though, I find that the research for one often sets up the reading for the next book.    
Now I must inquire, what IS the title of the next one and what will it be about?
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

CarolGoodman

  • Posts: 22
Re: Question for Carol
« Reply #371 on: June 08, 2009, 04:04:03 PM »
Frybabe, (Margie) that is so interesting about Pythagoras. That's quite interesting: One of the points the book makes is that what we know as the Pythagora's Theorum was actually in use in Mesopotamia a thousand years before Pythagoras came along. And the secret mysterious society, I heard an interesting lecture once at a convention on the Persephone myth, how it predates the Greeks and is in several other cultures, some quite strange, all dealing with the seasons and rebirth.

Rebirth or the rituals associated with it I have a feeling is going to be a theme here.

It's surprising to many to learn that worship of the god Serapis, (who was made up to combine Egyptian and Greek mythology by Ptolemy I) which was popular with the Romans contained resurrection, but not in the way we think of it.


-----

 Andrea, enjoy the beach!! We'll miss you but I know you are fomenting tons of thoughts for the discussion!

-----

Stephanie, two great points!  You mentioned she seems to feel that something got left out for her.



What a good point, I missed that. Now that alone would be a powerful motivation, to me. That and constantly being told you're just like your mother (who drowned). How would one react to that daily? I don't think people drown on purpose, do they?  Of course there's Virginia Woolf. I need to reread that bit.

And then this, the other Elephant in the Living Room: but have never been shot and that may change how you look at things.

You're right, I have not either. Has anybody here been shot? I am not sure how it would make you feel, I know my recent broken leg has brought up a LOT of strange little unworthy thoughts I did not know were there.

The SHOOTING is another Elephant in the Living Room here. I was shocked, never saw it coming but in our day it seems to be in the news daily. When you read a book tho, you (do you?) tend to imbue it with your own persona, I doubt any of us have shot anybody. Or even thought about it.

----
And bellamarie brought up abandonment. I did not see that and you're right, it's all OVER the thing. Many many themes, such an innocent looking fast reading book. Many many themes. Well worth the discussion (and some books are not!)

Bellamarie said: Elgin critiquing her thesis..... "You've romanticized your subject," Elgin had commented on the first draft of my thesis, in which I argued that Vitalis and Iusta represented early feminists. "And over identified with them."

Ok now I am beginning to see what you all are saying.  I don't understand his point here, surely anybody would be interested in this rare court case which has been preserved and which nobody knows the outcome of? He's coming across here as an unfeeling chauvinist.

Right? or?

I love that question for Carol, Marcie, and since I can't figure out the answer to her answer I must ask:

Carol: What do you mean in reference to Sophie's cutting the grass after her recovery, "Sophie’s not supernatural, she’s just a TEXAN!" What is a TEXAN for those of us who have only ridden thru once or twice or been to Riverwalk?

Okay I was just being silly when I said Sophie was a Texan--in other words, that she's tough enough to mow a lawn after lung surgery.  I lived in Texas for seven years--and my daughter was born there--so I have a lot of fondness for the state and for the native's sense of self-sufficiency and pioneer spirit.  And it was the best answer I could come up with.



ALF43

  • Posts: 1360
Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #372 on: June 08, 2009, 04:04:06 PM »
Thank you Bellamarie- I really love it that I have been missed!  What a wonderful trip with my "circle of buddies."

Carol- that is a hoot!  It was the best answer you could come up with???  I have an EX husband who lives in Texas, so I could add a comment or two to your answer. ::)
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

CarolGoodman

  • Posts: 22
Re: Question for Carol
« Reply #373 on: June 08, 2009, 04:13:54 PM »
QUESTION FOR CAROL

Have you ever noticed when you're reading a book, suddenly there are references to what's in it everywhere?

I'm reading No Touch Monkey by Ayun Halliday, about her travels, this time in Bali. It's non fiction, I don't like to read fiction when we're discussing fiction,  so I don't get mixed up any more than normal.  That would make a good question for Carol, actually:

Carol: when you are writing a book  are you able to simultaneously read the fiction of others? What authors have inspired you?

Anyway, here we are with Ayun Halliday in Bangkok, getting visas for Cambodia, and she says:


Quote
She was grateful we hadn't followed Danny to one of those Thai islands were backpackers converged to reenact The Bacchae every full moon.

There are the Bacchae again!!! Can you believe that? Small world. (I never knew backpacking thru Europe was such a nasty dirty experience, but I don't think anybody would take it up after reading her book. Somebody must have scared her about soap and water…she's patently quite proud of being filthy,   but I digress). :)

Actually once at Stonehenge at obviously the wrong time of the year I encountered a whole MOB, and I mean MOB of…er…pilgrims to the site, it was some kind of phase of the moon or something...best avoided if possible. This is before they shut off the site and made people pay entry  and so forth.


Yes, I do read fiction while I'm writing.  I know there are authors who say they can't and that they give up reading fiction while working on a book, but since I am ALWAYS working on a book I'd have to give up fiction for quite some time and it's one of the joys of my life to read fiction.  And I read so much that I hope that no one book influences my style too much ... or if it does, I just hope it influences me to write better.

CarolGoodman

  • Posts: 22
Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #374 on: June 08, 2009, 04:16:14 PM »
QUESTION FOR CAROL

Pedln...
Quote
Did Elgin put the cart before the horse?  Did he tell John L. that Dr. Chase, an authority on the lost document of G. Petronius, would now be part of the project?  And now he has to persuade Sophie? Probably hogwash, but I just don’t trust Elgin.  I think Sophie’s reasons for not going originally, are legitimate.

Nope...I don't think so, I think John Lyros's mission after his 5 yrs of initiation and silence was to fund this trip.

So we have a ton of puzzle pieces here, BUT we have NO box top to show us the puzzle.  Or as Ginny keeps saying, "The elephant in the room."

What does this cult want with the scrolls in the Villa de Notte?  Some times you have to clear the clutter in order to see the floor.  There are a lot of smoke and mirrors I think in these 112 pages.  But then how could we solve the entire mystery, with only one fourth of the pages of clues?  I'll reserve the right to my suspicions till later.

Ciao for now.................

Carol, can I ask if any of my list of clues and connections make any sense at all?

Hm ... it actually hadn't occurred to me that Elgin promised that Sophie would be part of the crew before the shooting ... but I wouldn't put it past him.

ALF43

  • Posts: 1360
Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #375 on: June 08, 2009, 04:22:21 PM »
bellamarie- I put a SPOILER Alert at the top of Carol's post.  We have all agreed to not discuss anything past our assigned pages. :P

We will have to pretend that we DO NOT know anything about anyone past that page.
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

bellamarie

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #376 on: June 08, 2009, 04:24:18 PM »
Carol, Andrea.... I did not see the part before I read the spoiler and I read it and said.............OH NO!!!!!!  
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #377 on: June 08, 2009, 04:27:18 PM »
Andrea,  OOOPS....  so sorry, as you can see I did not see Spoiler until I went back after my posting.  My lips are sealed. ;)  I thought YOUR postings were Carol actually on at the same time as me.  I am doing two things at one time and wasn't paying close attention.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

bellamarie

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #378 on: June 08, 2009, 04:44:39 PM »
Andrea...
Quote
My computer has been acting weird so I'll post this and come right back with another thought.
[/b]

HELP!     HELP!    

I have been having a lot of problems with my brand new laptop computer when I am posting on here.  When I use my old computer it is fine.  Is anyone else having any problems when they post here?   I try to highlight a group of words or sentences and my cursor jumps to a different spot.  It will not stay in the place I put it.  Also, the line I am typing won't stay to where I can see the text.  It is like a row below.  

I am thinking of calling Best Buy and asking them if its my computer, but if others are experiencing this same problem, then maybe its the site.  
PLEASE REPLY!!!!
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

ALF43

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #379 on: June 08, 2009, 04:45:50 PM »
Actually, I think the threee of us were posting at the same time. ::)
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

bellamarie

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #380 on: June 08, 2009, 04:48:45 PM »
Andrea...I removed my post that commented to Carol's spoiler so hopefully its just you and Carol who saw it.  ::)
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

ALF43

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #381 on: June 08, 2009, 05:49:09 PM »
bellamarie- no problem, thank you. :-*
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

Deems

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #382 on: June 08, 2009, 05:58:54 PM »

Welcome back, Andy.  Hope you had a lovely time at the beach.  bellamarie--I didn't see your post, whatever it was.  So it's all good.  We need to be careful about the questions we ask I guess.  I'll have some comments on this section later, but at the moment I have dogs that need my attention.  It's always something.

ALF43

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #383 on: June 08, 2009, 07:14:36 PM »
Maryal-- It really is a DOG eat DOG world, is it not? ::)  I had a great time, thanks.

I love this shadowy figure Goddess Night, Nox, (doesn't that sound like a stop over on American Airlines?), with the stars in her veil, the owl on her shoulder and the poppies in her hair, siting at the center of the fountain when Sophie looks out in her delerium.

More often, Nox lurks in the background of other cults, I found from a Google reference.
goddessNight
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

ALF43

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #384 on: June 08, 2009, 07:25:09 PM »
Oh cool!  How about Parthenope (the institute's boat-)  who was also the Greek siren who threw herself into the sea and washed up in Naples?

Bellemaria- I think that my computer was acting up because of all of the pictures that I downloaded on it when I returned from the Island.
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

ginny

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #385 on: June 08, 2009, 07:52:25 PM »
Thank you so much Carol!! I can see we need (I do) to put our questions in posts by themselves, bless your heart!

I have to be off a good bit of tomorrow, so please excuse the exuberance tonight! hahaha

Good one on the Parthenope, Andrea!!

Bellamarie, it's not happening to me or anybody else I know, it may be some setting on your laptop which has been tagged. They can drive you nuts till you get them right, I never will forget screaming about how my words kept disappearing. Good luck!!

That's a good question, Frybabe, on the name Themis. The Deiss book gives her maiden name as Calatoria Temidis, but is more concerned with the derivation of Calatoria since she herself had been a former slave. Apparently Themis was a name attached to her as well. Themis was a woman's name, and get this: it means the goddess of justice and of prophecy. Take THAT! Hahahaa

I don't have a clue, this is not a very well known or understood case. It's possible this was a name she liked and took for herself when her husband died.

I think the article you posted does make clear that the impetus was really property and money, not the girl herself. But in our book here, it's the girl!

Pedln, Margie's link seems to go more into the various kinds of vadimonia (all interesting) than the application here, but normally a vadimonium was "a promise secured by bail for appearance on a particular day before a tribunal. Also, bail, security, recognizance." (Lewis and Short Latin Dictionary).

I love this section of the book! I don't know who to trust and the allusions fly thick and fast. It IS exciting!

Now I'm not sure on the FBI locating protected witnesses in Sorrento, if they are we all need to be protected witnesses, it's a paradise on earth. Hahahaa Did you understand why they would want the witness there and what THEIR (the FBI's !! ) interest might be and who this witness was and what HE or SHE was doing there? What on earth do they all want with this treasure chest?

AND we have the image of the girl in the fresco opening a chest too, so many parallels.

This is a fabulous section, I can't get over it.

Parallels with the original Villa dei Papiri (see heading), and the fictional Villa della Notte, which is both at Herculaneum  in the book and reproduced on Capri by John Lyros who is beginning to scare me! What on earth IS he after? Oh come on, build a replica of the Villa Della Notte (the fictional  Villa dei Papyri) on Capri? How many years and billions did that take? The Italians are marvelous workers but speed is not their goal. Look how long it took to build the structure over the Ara Pacis, years and years. Of course he may have been working on it years and years, maybe 5 years??  Something is not right with yon John with the violet eyes and the 5 year gap in his resume.

The script of Phineas Aulus here, speaker from 2000 years ago, is fascinating and totally false: it's a wonderful figment of Carol's imagination.

Agnes is a little insensitive I think on page 167, "If you don't mind diving, we can go through the opening underwater." (Does she know that Sophie's mother died in a drowning accident? I bet she does). She does know she lacks half a lung. Hmmm on sweet Agnes here.

Agnes says that John Lyros "wanted you to feel like the events in Phineas's book are happening here, now…" er….ah…..really? ER...huh?  It appears that something decidedly unpleasant is about to happen, I love the atmosphere in this section. I'd run like a rabbit.

I absolutely loved this one: "You know," I say, "I think this sauce is probably a lot like the Roman garum that Phineas says he ate his first night here (another parallel)—I mean his first night at the Villa della Notte."

Garum is rotten fish guts. Emphasis on rotten. Really nasty. Well fermented.  Much prized. Hahaaa Famous in antiquity to disguise the food. Supposedly there's nothing in the modern world like it except one kind of similar sauce in  Vietnam cooking. Wonder why ol Violet Eyes is serving a garum duplicate? Doggone if I'd eat the food.

Now here I wondered, "If the shipwreck was intentional, it means Phineas's crew were sacrificed on purpose."

Who would sacrifice the crew and why?

We've got no end of plots here moving inexorably forward!  And just when your head is spinning, we have illustrations on page 127 which sound an awful lot in theme like the ones  from the  Villa of the Mysteries (those are the only ones I know by that description) which are in Pompeii. I just LOVE the creativity here.

So what do you think? What is our Phineas thinking he's in for here and what do YOU think he's in for? And Sophie has the same room! By the way some scholars say the word "rape" as in rape of Persephone,  actually means carrying off, ( to carry off by force) (from the verb rapio), not what we conceive of it as.

Speaking of Latin, here's the opium poppy http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/poison/Papavso.htm from North Carolina State where apparently it grows wild with enlargeable photos, so much for Wikipedia!  The name, Papaver somniferum, means sleep bearing (somni--ferum) seed or poppy head. It's poisonous!


Whoopee, the game's afoot! But who can we trust if anybody? I don't trust any of them at all, I'd go home, but I'm a chicken.




ginny

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #386 on: June 08, 2009, 08:07:34 PM »
I really have loved the poems you've brought, the Xanadu,  my favorite poet, who himself sometimes (did he not, Deems will know) write under the influence,  and In Flander's Fields. The last time we were in  Belgium (I'm beginning to sound like Rick Steves, sorry) we took a personal tour guide he recommended and of course I wanted to see Flander's Fields and the poppies, but he said they occur where the land has been recently turned over and I didn't see any until we went to Rome where I found them among immovable 2,000 year old stones, go figure. :) I think he would rather we go and see a local farmer, who WAS charming.

As Stephanie says it's going to take a week to sort out, all these people seem (to me, is it just me?) to be changing. Metamorphosing (is that a word? Spell Check likes it better than what I originally put)??

Lyros is the creepy one. Maybe Elgin is in over his head.  Does Elgin know Lyros is a creep? Why does Lyros want to reproduce as closely as possible what happened?

Why is Sophie in the same room the fictional Phineas occupied? Is SHE supposed to have some part in the goings on? I would be SO out of there. And I'm on my third read of this book, but it's a magic book, it keeps changing,  you have to watch out for the twists and turns!  hahahaa

More what's real and what is not: on page 140 Justa loses her suit to Calatoria, that did not happen in real life, as Andrea said Vesuvius erupted while the judges apparently took it in advisement but the "what ifs" here are delicious to contemplate.

Oh and here's Simon, another mad scientist? (How can you all see him so young? I see Boris Karloff as Simon). Anyway he says, "We're all hungry for ritual, to experience something beyond the banality of everyday life, to stand outside of ourselves..." (page 150).  HUH? Are we? Is Sophie? We need to put this in the heading. When you think about it, who in this book is NOT in this condition?

This is fun! What do YOU think about anything, Sharp Readers??

Deems

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #387 on: June 08, 2009, 08:23:07 PM »

Yes, Coleridge did indulge in opium.  It's generally believed that "Kubla Khan" is a fragment of an opium dream.  Remember when we did "The Ancient Mariner,"  Ginny?

Here's just part of the definition of RAPE, v. from the Oxford English Dictionary.  I find the etymology interesting.  Note that as early as the 13th century the verb had its present meaning.  

************
rape, v.

[Probably < classical Latin rapere to seize, take by force, to carry off, snatch away, to violate, to sack, plunder < the same Indo-European base as Lithuanian apr pti to grasp, Albanian rrjep to peel, pluck, skin, rob, and perhaps ancient Greek            feeding on. Compare Old French rapir to seize a woman (13th cent.). Compare RAP v.3, RAP v.4 Compare also RAPE n.3
  The relationship, if any, with Middle Dutch r pen to pick up, to seize, to abduct, to rob (Dutch rapen), Middle Low German r pen to seize, to grab, and with the Germanic forms listed at RAP v.3 is not clear. With to rape and scrape at Phrases 2 compare Middle Low German schr pen unde r pen to rake in, to scrape together (money).

2. trans.
    a. To carry off (a person) by force; esp. to abduct a woman, usually for the purpose of sexual violation. Freq. with away, from. Also fig. Cf. RAPE n.3 3.

3. trans. To violate (a person) sexually; to commit rape against (a person); esp. (of a man) to force (a woman) to have sexual intercourse against her will. See RAPE n.3 2a.
  Now the usual sense.
  App. not used in the 18th cent.
1574 A. G. tr. Test. Twelue Patriarches sig. Cviiiv (margin), The Sichemites..Raped Dina..Persecuted straungers..Rauished their wiues. 1616 J. BULLOKAR Eng. Expositor (at cited word), Rape, a violent rauishing of a woman against her will. a1641 R. MONTAGU Acts & Monuments (1642) 343 To..torment their bodies, rape their wives and daughters. 1684 T. D. GENT New Littany v. From Marrying one Sister, and Raping the Next, For ever, &c.
1823 ‘B. CORNWALL’ Girl of Provence in Flood of Thessaly lxxxvii. 114 The rage and glow Of Phoebus as he tried in vain to rape Evergreen Daphne. 1861 Times 18 July, She charged that..he had violently assaulted and raped her. 1885 Law Times 78 240/2 Females who have been raped or indecently assaulted. 1928 D. H. LAWRENCE Let. ?28 Oct. (1962) II. 1096 Why do men only thrill to a woman who'll rape them? 1977 New Yorker 24 Oct. 64/3 A man..claimed he had been assaulted and raped by four other prisoners. 1996 R. DOYLE Woman who walked into Doors xxiv. 159 The mother of a neighbour of mine was raped and nearly killed by a young lad of nineteen, out of his head on drugs.


Deems

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #388 on: June 08, 2009, 08:28:32 PM »

One more poem.  In this one, a siren speaks

Siren Song
     
     This is the one song everyone
would like to learn: the song
that is irresistible:

the song that forces men
to leap overboard in squadrons
even though they see beached skulls

the song nobody knows
because anyone who had heard it
is dead, and the others can’t remember.

Shall I tell you the secret
and if I do, will you get me
out of this bird suit?
I don’t enjoy it here
squatting on this island
looking picturesque and mythical
with these two feathery maniacs,
I don’t enjoy singing
this trio, fatal and valuable.

I will tell the secret to you,
to you, only to you.
Come closer. This song

is a cry for help: Help me!
Only you, only you can,
you are unique

at last. Alas
it is a boring song
but it works every time.

Margaret Atwood

ginny

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #389 on: June 08, 2009, 08:52:16 PM »
Love the Atwood!! Wow.  Interesting on the rape, too. Thank you!  Yes I definitely remember the Ancient Mariner, who could forget it, but did not recall the drug of choice. What was it Holmes took? They removed it from the first movie, a pipe of something?

 Here's Odysseus (Ulysses)  on an early vase tying himself to the mast so he could hear those gorgeous sirens in The Odyssey.  :)





Frybabe

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #390 on: June 08, 2009, 09:08:25 PM »
Ginny, I think Holmes did Opium. I kind of remember reference in some of his stories to making use of opium dens on occasion. I forget which one, but I think in one of the books it was on purpose, in one of his disguises to ferret out some information or a person.

I picked up on the garum and the room right away. Also, I am interested in the painting in which one of the sirens and the victim had the same face, that of Iusta's mother. The comment it elicited had to do with feeling pain and pleasure at the same time.

bellamarie

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #391 on: June 08, 2009, 11:00:09 PM »
Andrea and Ginny..Thank you for responding to my computer issue.  I will have to call tech support and see what key needs to be set or unset.

I thought my head was spinning after researching sirens, sibyls and homosexuality, but now I just feel completely overwhelmed.  Carol must have had a blast writing this story, within a story, within a story.  Because it has parts of fiction and true live happenings, it is so difficult to remember it is a fiction novel.

Ginny..
Quote
Now I'm not sure on the FBI locating protected witnesses in Sorrento, if they are we all need to be protected witnesses, it's a paradise on earth. Hahahaa Did you understand why they would want the witness there and what THEIR (the FBI's !! ) interest might be and who this witness was and what HE or SHE was doing there? What on earth do they all want with this treasure chest?

When Elgin returned from Sorrento, he mentioned seeing Oscar Wilde at the hotel.  Could the Tetrakty's cult be involved in the type of activities Peyrefitte mentions and the FBI is trying to bust them for soliciting to minor boys?  Ginny when you say its a paradise on earth, some may see it as a paradise for their sexual pleasures and activities. 

Its being thrown around so much about the sexual activities, even in Calatoria's home.  Phinea is given a room that guests do not usually sleep in, and it was mentioned so he would not see what was going on in the lower level.  The men in the showers where Phinea went the next morning were engaging in these activities. They discuss the rape of Peresephone and how Iusta may be honored rather than horrified during her initiate in the painting. 

For some reason I am no longer seeing Iusta as the poor slave girl, just like I am not seeing Agnes as the forlorn southern girl.  Sophie overidentified with Iusta's story of being a slave, seeing herself enslaved in a home of grandparents who mistreated her after being abandoned by her mother. It turns out Iusta was honored to take part in the initiate, she stated to Phinea, pg. 153 "It is what I have been raised for." 

Most all crimes are committed for money and/or power.  Sex, drugs, fresco's, scrolls with important documents on them,  and cults seem to be the things in this book that would bring about the possession of  money and power. If the scrolls have the documented proof that gives the date of Iusta's birth, and the outcome of the lawsuit, then someone will inherit Iusta's property.  The question is WHO?  If the scrolls have Sibylline books, it would give the destiny of the future.  If the scrolls contain Plato/Pythagorean theories of the body and soul and the makeup of the universe then it would give someone enormous power.  There is a lot that could be gained, yet much could be lost. 

If Elgin is working with the FBI, is it possible Dale came to the boardroom to shoot Elgin for the cult?  We were led to believe it was because of his obsession with Agnes.  Afterall, if Agnes is a part of the cult its possible she knew all along what Dale's mission was and was nervous that morning because she knew.  If Dale had Sophie's third volume as Sam said he did, its possible Agnes had given it to Dale. 

Agnes, has definitely taken the lead here in Italy.  When she and Sophie saw the man on the boat who Sophie thought was Ely waving to her, is it possible he was waving to Agnes, a member of the cult?  If so is Ely a true member of the cult, or is he a plant to expose the cult, the protected witness Elgin spoke of?   

We learn the chest is empty.......so....who has what was in the chest?  My guess is Iusta stole the items in the chest from Phinea the night she slept with him.  With all the poppy, opium, and other hallucinatory drugs they had on hand I'm getting the feeling it was one big drugged out orgy in the paradise of Capri.   ::)

Ciao for now...........



 

 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

JudeS

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #392 on: June 08, 2009, 11:27:29 PM »
Ginny
When I learned the Odyssey  Odyseus tied himself to the mast so he wouldn't be tempted by the Sirens song.  He didn't trust his will power.  I remember the discussion about the strength of the call of the Sirens.  Seems they were irresistable.

Now I decided to answer one of the questions that was posted by our leaders. For some reason I chose the last one about Wilhelmina Jashenski and like everything else in this discussion I almost drowned in the fascinating material.(Was it a Sirens Song that called me?).

W.J. 1910-2007 was a noted scholar on Pompeii.  She started out as a legal scholar but after visiting the site she got interested in the horticulture aspect of the place since she herself was an avid gardener. Besides Pompei she also worked on the gardens of Hadrian in Tivoli.
W.J. began teaching in 1935 and was on the faculty of the U of maryland from 1946-1980.She is viewed as a pioneer of the field of Garden Archeology in the ancient Mediterraneum cultures.
Among her works is"A Pompesian Herbal -Ancient and Modern Plants"-1999 and the two volume work for which she won prizes and accolades-"Gardens of Pompei, Herculaneum and the villas destroyed bu Vesuvius".

In her obituary it was noted that she knew more about the gardens of Pompei than any person since the residents buried there.
The dwellings in Pompei were mostly row houses with a bit of green space to grow figs, olives,cherries and other fruits and vegetables. Gardens were a favorite site for religous activities from animal sacrifice to meditation.
She found that many ways of growing fruits and vegetables in Pompei remain exactly the same as in Italy of today. She
mentions that she never studied a garden in Pompei that didn't have a dog living in it.

I found this fascinating since some of the tiled art that I saw in Pompei was of dogs wearing collars exactly lke the ones my dog wears.

ALF43

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #393 on: June 09, 2009, 07:44:20 AM »
Jude- maybe your dog is a practicing Tetraktys- perhaps he's been reincarnated. :o

When I return from my 9 hole golf league I will respond re. Wilhemina J.

bellamar- thus far I can not find any indication of Agnes being in collusion with anyone.
What does everyone think of this Maria?  Is she a piece of work or what?  She soulnds more like the Gestapo than she does a representative of the Catholic Church.

I'm off to the 9's.
Books are the bees which carry the quickening pollen from one to another mind.  ~James Russell Lowell

Steph

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #394 on: June 09, 2009, 07:52:16 AM »
Whew.. I simply dont go to the movies enough to figure out who is who.. Maria.. This character is truly weird to me.. Is she jealous of Sophie?? Does she feel that John is somehow her property. She certainly behaves like a jealous women.. I find her confusing.
Sophie in the cavern.. This is such an eerie scene. Agnes seems almost threatening.
Since we are leaving Saturday in the Rv, I am at the mercy of RV parks, for wi fi after that. So I will probably end up missing a lot. But I am having fun now with the discussion.

We did stop reading on a real serial type ending.. People trapped in the tunnel.. A case for Lassie?? sorry I am being silly.. But it is that sort of day.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

Frybabe

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #395 on: June 09, 2009, 08:31:44 AM »
Ginny, double WOW. After viewing your DVD last night, I put the TV on this morning and came into the middle (nuts!) of a program in Spanish on the History International Channel about Pompeii and Herculaneum. Not only did it show the ruins, including lots of mosiacs and statues, but also jewelry and some toiletries. At the end, they showed an old news clip of Vesuvius erupting and destroying a town. I don't know when this happened or what town. Will have to look it up when I get back. Time to do some needed grocery shopping.

Babi

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #396 on: June 09, 2009, 09:02:48 AM »
 You find Lyros 'creepy', GINNY?  I find him intriguing, possibly with secret motives for his actions. I'm thinking he does want to recreate the events at the original Villa  Del Notte. Yet on the whole quite likeable. Look at the care he takes of Sophie during their walk, making frequent stops in the shade so she can rest. Compare that with Elgin's rapid hustle, leaving Sophie to catch up as best she can, short of breath. I'm thumbs down on Elgin.

 I found this bit by 'Phineas' about Herculaneum to be interesting.  "...it occurred to me that the dissolute nature of the town might be a result of
living on unstable ground".
  It seems that living in such uncertainty does affect people's outlook on life.  For some, it is 'eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die', which is the result Phineas is thinking of. 
  There is also the opposite reaction, where people living constantly with danger feel the need to make their life meaningful; to do all they can with whatever time they have.  I am reminded of Carlos Castaneds's  'impeccable warrior'.
The impeccable warrior thinks of death as a friend always standing at his shoulder, inspiring him to live a disciplined life each day.

"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

bellamarie

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #397 on: June 09, 2009, 09:38:38 AM »
Steph, Some days we need to be a bit silly.  This book is so serious and mysterious a light hearted day sounds good to me.  I see Agnes targeting Sophie, does she actually feel inferior to her, needing to take the lead in the swimming adventure and translating the Latin?  I've suspected Agnes a part of the cult since her dark eyes that indicated sleepless nights reading those crazy cult books.

Frybabe, that is eerie for you to wake up to a the History channel, and Vesuvius erupting.   dooo  doooo dooooo dooooooo

Babi, that's interesting your take on Elgin and John.  I've seen different times both men seeming to be thoughtful and caring where Sophie is concerned.  Elgin was so caring on the boat ride, I sense his rushing through the streets was more for sake of her safety in case they were being followed.  As for John, I agree he was thoughtful during their walk, yet he did not inform her of the steep stairs to the hotel he recommended to her knowing she was recovering from her losing half of her lung.  So it seems both men at different times have shown care and concern for Sophie.  On the other hand, Agnes is leading her into danger.  I keep finding my thoughts and feelings about the characters changing just like they seem to change with each new page.

Well, its slip and slide and sprinkler time for the day care kids, so off to the sunshine I shall go.  It's a tough job but someone has to do it.  ;)

Ciao for now......................
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

pedln

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Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #398 on: June 09, 2009, 09:52:58 AM »
It seems with this book I’m always either running behind, or continually taking side trips.  I’m loving the discussion here and all the branches that is takes.  Hadn’t thought much about poppies, but wish I had some growing in my yard – they come back every year, right?  Don’t need to plant them every spring?

Noting the list of queries in the heading -- #7, I’ve latched onto Wilamina J, knowing or remembering  nothing of her other than  she is an archeologist. (Ah, Jude,just saw your post -- like minds)  But from her obit in last December’s Washington Post we learn that she established the field of garden archaeology and probably knew more about the gardens of ancient Pompeii except for the residents of 79 AD.

Here’s a link to her obit.  What a wonderful life and career she had. She was 97.

Wilamina J

Simon, young?  I thought Agnes referred to him as a dirty old man.

Babi, I leaning your way about John Lyros, but do you really think he wants to recreate those initiation rites?  Yikes.  And here I've been trusting him more than Elgin.

Back to more careful reading and rereading.

catbrown

  • Posts: 152
Re: Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online
« Reply #399 on: June 09, 2009, 10:59:00 AM »
Just a non-sequitur here on Sherlock Holmes' drug of choice ... not opium, cocaine!