Night Villa, The ~ Carol Goodman ~ June 1 ~ Book Club Online

[Frybabe]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome to join in.

The book can certainly be read on a variety of levels and each one is great in its own way!---Joan R.

(These topics are only here to spark conversation, choose one or suggest your own and let's discuss:)
Week  3: Through Chapter 24:
It's All in the Cards


What a chapter! Revelations, surprises,  but even more secrets, what did you make of it?

1 Talk about unreliable narrators, what do you think of Phineas? Is he reliable? Is Ely? Do you believe Ely?

2. Who is the yet unnamed operative still at the site?

3. The cards and their meanings are revealed!!  What are two possible flaws in Ely's plan to use them?

4. " I see Agnes, looking not only very much alive but the picture of health. Her cheeks are pink and her eyes glowing as if she'd just finished a morning jog." (page 232). What's going on with Agnes and why?

5.  Are you clear  on how the two parallel plots intertwine here? We've only got a small section left. What has Phineas's part in the rites got to do with the hunt for the Golden Verses?

6.  What do you think Simon was arguling about with Lyros? What do you think he was struggling to say to Sophie?

7. What do you think Maria was doing on the computer?  (page 206) Do you buy her emergency family trip?

8. Betrayal as  a theme has just raised its head. How is it paralleled exactly in the two plots?

9. How much do you think Maria saw when she came to look for Sophie? Why couldn't Ely have taken her to land somewhere instead of the swim?

10. "....be careful not to hurt Agnes or Agnes's woman professor." (page 279). What need has Lyros of Agnes's woman professor?

11.  What do you think is the most important part of this section and why?

12. What does Sophie's dream about Odette mean? What is meant by the wrong pan and the wrong day? (Babi)

13. What's with  the diabetic complication that caused Simon, our artist, to die? (Andrea)

14. "  But why would she make up such a story in order to go report to the Church. She is there as a Church representative, and reporting to them would be natural and appropriate. No,...she must have been doing something else."-- Babi. What do you think she was actually doing?

The Temple of Poseidon
Sounion, Greece
Where "Phineas"  got the scrolls

Schedule Chapters 17-24 for June 15 - 22 Chapters 25-End for  June 23 - 30

---

Interesting Links NYC Interview with Carol Goodman / Book Gathering '08 Carol Goodman Homepage The Philodemus Project -- Herculaneum Papyri Fordham Roman Mystery Religions (submitted by Suzie) Cult  (submitted by Marcie) Real or Fictional ? Links to Classical References in the NIGHT VILLA- researched by participants

Discussion Leaders: Andrea & Ginny

Floor Plan of the Villa of the Papyri by Karl Weber, 1750-.




New! If you'd like to borrow Gaetano Capasso's DVD showing the reconstruction of the Villa of the Papyri and Library, email your mailing address to gvinesc@gmail.com and we'll pass it around!

Yeah, that puzzled me too JoanR, when I first came across it years ago. I think I was doing a paper on some aspect or other of agriculture in the Middle Ages at the time.

[Deems]

JoanR wrote, "It's absolutely too much of a coincidence that Ely shows up at dawn's early light just when Sophie is sunbathing by the sea.  And how could she "fall into his arms" after his 5 years of desertion and silence?  No way!"

Yes, exactly.  And earlier he sailed by and waved to her when she and Agnes were on the rock sunbathing.  Since Sophie did not tell him where she was, it must have been Agnes.  

I don't trust Ely at all--I think he's still in the cult.  He certainly has maintained all his old numerical behavior--ringing Sophie's phone 3, then 4, then 5 times early in the novel.  Now he's leaving cryptic cards all over the place and skulking about on very expensive boats.  Still in the cult and after "The Golden Verses" of Pythagoras.  Agnes guilty too because she has to be Ely's informant.

Andy--good luck losing those 28 pounds.  You have one more day to do it!

[ALF43]

Thank you Deems, I'm off to a great start.  I just returned from dinner with my neighbors.  She knows how much I love soup, so we had homemade tomato soup, with cream cheese, onions, chopped tomatoes and milk, in a Panera's bread bowl.

Dessert was an Eskimo Pie made with dark chocolate.  I think I'm up about 2 1/2 lbs. after that evening.  Yummy.

[Deems]

Thanks, Andy.  That's one conveniently placed right arm!  I guess Burne -Jones didn't want to shock his viewers.  You need to take the = sign out of the link.

[Deems]

Your dinner sounds delicious.  You can lose that weight later, after the vacation.  I'm at Panera right now,  having had an equally caloric meal.

But I'm swimming every day so I deserve it.

[ALF43]

Sophie and Ely in the Depths of the Sea

[ALF43]

A nymph or siren wrapped around the body of a handsome youth, dragging him down to the depths of the sea.

Talk about "ghost roots", hey Maryal?

Dang, I thought I had all of this coding down pat, but I swear I don't know where the = sign came in, subconscious perhaps.  It's qute a picture isn't it that sophie recalled at the bottom of the sea.  Everything flashed before her eyes; her mother, the Mermaid show-- oops there's Ely pressing his body against hers.  This was kind of gross to me "his chest, slim hips (maybe I'm jealous) are crisscrossed with waves of light reflecting off the water.   LIKE A TATOO OF SCALES.  
Aha, another transformation for Ginny transformed by a spell- a couple from Ovid whose love turns them into blue-scaled sea serpents.  

"Maybe this is what happens when Orpheus goes back into the underworld to briing back Euridice, OR Demeter sends Mercury for Persephone."  

This part I love- Facilis descensus Averno.

It's easy to go down to hell, but not so easy to come back.

[sandyrose]

What fun reading your posts.  So funny....lol 

Bellamarie...I agree that Simon was trying to warn about Agnes.  I think she killed him.  Don't know how, but she did.  And if our highly educated, but dumb narator would stop rationalizing, she may have saved Simon.

Bellamarie said...

Her instincts did kick in to hide the cards and game from Lyros, so even though she sat at dinner contemplating staying the night with him and his violet eyes, something stopped her.

Yes--rather someone stopped her...Elgin.

Ginny said...

I don't have a problem with her rushing into a sexual relationship with him, guilt, unfinished business, abandonment, the lung thing, she nearly drowns, she gets caught, she had an epiphany (where is Norma) about her mother, she is overcome with emotion, he was her former husband, she's trying to reclaim what she lost in the past.

I have a problem with it...excuses, excuses, excuses.

I also, like Egin, though at first I did not--the romeo thing.  But I did not care much for Sophie from almost the beginning.  Not that she is a bad person, or a villian...

Joan R said..

Ginny - I saw on page 224 the very same definition of the "perfect  tense" in Latin that you have been trying to drum into our heads!!! It's as if Carol put that in there just for your classes!

That "perfect tense" thing jumped out at me too.  Good ol' Latin class. Thank you Ginny.

[ALF43]

Sandyrose- I think that it is just awesome (must find a new word soon) that there are so many of you that have joined us here, from Ginny's Latin class.  That is a wonderful testimony to your teacher and we are so happy to meet all of you.  I hope be enticed to join us for more book discussions, along the way.

Ok Sandy so Elgin is your man of the hour.  Now I ask you, how could you not the muscular guy who drives the  flashy sports car?  He was raised on a pig farm so he can call out

SSUUUUUUUUUUUUU---EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[sandyrose]

 

[JudeS]

I wish to leave all you phenomenal scholars with Phineas for a while and look at the plot of the book.

I think Simon was murdered.  We are three quarters thru the book and no murder?
Poirot would say "Mon Dieu, the little gray cells they tell me that it is not logical."

Sophie continues to be naive but there is no other heroine in sight.  Perhaps she becomes heroic at the end or is saved by the REAL HERO whoever that may be.  It is not Lyros or George so it is either Ely or Elgin.  Both of whom have been Sophies lovers and know her weaknesses and strengths. Notice both names begin with EL which is Hebrew for God. (A shortening of Elohim). But EL is used for the Greek Gods.  Ely  means my God in Hebrew.
                                                                                           
With all his drawbacks I think Elgin will be the Hero. He seems the most mature and clear about his goals.  I can't judge him on one sexual indescretion.  Perhaps he still loves Sophie and they will walk off into the sunset to teach Archeology together.
Lyros must have an accomplice but is it Ely or Agnes?
Maria (Mother of God) has her own agenda but she doesn't come across as a thief or a murderer.

What are your thoughts on this?

I certainly wouldn't choose my actors for the roles until I know what their real characters are.

[bellamarie]

Ginny,

I don't have a problem with her rushing into a sexual relationship with him, guilt, unfinished business, abandonment, the lung thing, she nearly drowns, she gets caught, she had an epiphany (where is Norma) about her mother, she is overcome with emotion, he was her former husband, she's trying to reclaim what she lost in the past.

At first I thought okay here comes the love story part.  Then I thought .....wait a minute what on earth is wrong with this woman?  She was just making goo goo eyes with Lyros and contemplating sleeping with him.  Ginny, it was never pointed out she married Ely, she said they set up house together.  Her character has not rung true for me from the first pages of the book.  I can't identify with Sophie she is too wishy washy for me. 

[Gumtree]

I think Simon was murdered.  We are three quarters thru the book and no murder?
Poirot would say "Mon Dieu, the little gray cells they tell me that it is not logical."

 Notice both names begin with EL which is Hebrew for God. (A shortening of Elohim). But EL is used for the Greek Gods.  Ely  means my God in Hebrew.
                                                                                           
 Perhaps he still loves Sophie and they will walk off into the sunset to teach Archeology together.
Lyros must have an accomplice but is it Ely or Agnes?

First, thanks Jude for the meaning of EL - and ELY. - Perhaps the sex scene in the grotto between Sophie and Ely was a reenactment of the scenes depicted on the ancient walls with Ely as the God and Sophie as What? - the sacrifice?

I agree in that I believe Simon has been murdered - but by whom and why?

Love the image of Sophie and Elgin walking off into the sunset to teach archeology together - brilliant but will that happen?

As for Lyros' accomplice - I see it as being Ely though Agnes is certainly something of a puzzle. And what role does George play other than being on loan from Oxford to handle the multi spectrum imaging job?

There are plenty of questions - few answers as yet!

ALF: Elgin's not the only muscular man with a flashy sports car - Lyros has one too - and sophie seems to be impressed by them both - is it the man or is it the car - does Sophie simply have a penchant for expensive, fast cars and the men who drive them?

Thanks for posting the painting - isn't it great - perfect imagery.

[bellamarie]

Gumtree,

I agree in that I believe Simon has been murdered - but by whom and why?

Simon was onto Agnes, he tried to warn Sophie with the sound of SSSSS, when Sophie heard him make that sound when his lung collapsed.  Remember, Agnes glowed like she had been jogging when Sophie came back to the hospital.  And Simon kept looking from Agnes to Sophie when he couldn't talk and Sophie thought he was trying to ask if Agnes was okay.  He was trying to send Sophie eye signals.  

Andrea, & Gumtree,

Elgin's not the only muscular man with a flashy sports car - Lyros has one too - and sophie seems to be impressed by them both - is it the man or is it the car - does Sophie simply have a penchant for expensive, fast cars and the men who drive them?

Sophie just likes attention from men, I don't think a sports car had anything to do with it.

[ALF43]

Jude- the explanation of the EL makes me pause.  I really must think about this a bit.  Thank you so much for those thoughts.
Off to H2O walk but will return.

hmmm- EL (Hebrew for God) I will always remember that fact.
ELY (my God)
So many God/Goddesses references I am trying to wrap my thoughts around.
I love the "deduction" of WHO dun it you have given.

Bellam- I mentioned that Sophie and Ely were "not man and wife" to Ginny already, but well- what can I say?
She IS old fashioned!

Gum- yes she does seemm to have a penchant for the "flashy" dude, doesn't she?  I forgot about Lyros and his $$$$$$.
I totally agree Agnes and Ely together with the link to Dale Henry makes perfect sense to me.

[Babi]

  We really do have to bear in mind, don't we, that one of the primary
techniques in writing a good mystery, is to variously point the finger
of suspicion at just about everyone and try to mislead the reader/sleuth.
I'm finding it very hard to separate perceptions from facts. More than
once I've accepted as fact what was presented to me, only to discover
that it wasn't so. Ms. Goodman has been very clever at telling us what
happened, while allowing us to make assumptions about why.

 I agree with GUM; Sopie's perception of Elgin is skewed by their history.
She is not a reliable 'reporter' where he is concerned.

 We all seem to agree that Maria's family emergency was a sham. But why
would she make up such a story in order to go report to the Church. She
is there as a Church representative, and reporting to them would be
natural and appropriate. No,...she must have been doing something else.

DEEMS, I don't think that Sophie was 'leading us down the garden path'. She did not originally specify the timing of her affair in her 'thoughts',but
there was no reason she should. We just 'assumed',..and that was the author's
clever doing.

JoanR

And how could she "fall into his arms" after his 5 years of desertion and silence? No way!

Remember, Joan, Sophie blamed herself for Ely's going away. She was sure it was
because he learned of her affair. As the 'guilty' party, she would have welcomed
his 'forgiveness'. Sophie is all too inclined to doubt and question herself, IMO,
except where her professional knowledge is involved.

[Frybabe]

Ok, so Elgin and Ely both SAY they are working with the FBI. Are they really? Elgin says he is working with the FBI, but I don't remember him actually saying who the FBI cooperator in the safe house is. Sophie asked Ely assuming it had to be him, but did she ask Elgin if Ely were the informant? Anyone remember if he actually pointed out Ely as his informant? Oh, and Lyros? Didn't Ely put a wedge in between Sophie and Lyros by allowing her to think that Lyros is the head of the cult?

What about Maria who makes mysterious trips to Naples. I don't think she is who she says she is. Good gal or bad gal?  And George who is still siding quietly on the sidelines?

I think this is going to be a case of the bad guys pretending to be something they are not to enlist Sophie's cooperation. I still don't trust anyone at this point. I suspect we will be guessing right up to the end.

Excepting maybe Simon, we still don't have a clear picture of who are the good guys and who are the bad guys. This is such a good "who done it"; it's going to keep us guessing right up to the end.

[pedln]

Deems

pedln, I agree.  I'm reading the book on Kindle, and pages are difficult for me to find (disadvantage to Kindle--it's harder to flip around and find things).  Can you find the section early on that led you and me to think that Sophie's affair with Elgin did not coincide with her time with Ely?  You thought the affair came after Ely left for NM and I thought she had the affair before her living with Ely.  Obviously up front somewhere, our narrator (Sophie) is withholding, obfuscating, being dishonest (with herself, with us).

It's on the agenda, Deems, but right now I'm one of at least three who will be in New York, somewhere, tomorrow.  But JoanR and I are getting together next week; we'll sort it out -- at the Strand, where I bought the copy CG autographed.  (Wish I had a Kindle instead of having to decide which books to take.)

In the meantime, Elgin is still my main man for good guy.  I still lack two chapters for this week, so am not ready to blame Agnes for anything. Will be without Internet until next week.

Andy, great picture of Sophie and Ely.  You put that right.

Gumtree, thanks for the math lesson. Gollee, you're smart.  Palindromic, of course, from palindrome.   

[bellamarie]

Andrea, 

I mentioned that Sophie and Ely were "not man and wife" to Ginny already, but well- what can I say?  She IS old fashioned!

If I didn't take notes, I'd forget everything.  It's and age thing.  The nice thing is we all share the same symptoms and have each other to help us out.     Can you imagine Carol remembering all this?  Phewwwwww

[ginny]

I tell you what, your posts yesterday were out of this world, I want to go back to a few, all were fabulous, was reading here in the face of incredible storms, and from the weather channel more on the way. When the wind comes sideways and the hail batters the side of the house, threatening to break the windows,  I really thought yesterday we were gone. Distant constant rumbling which did turn out to be tornadoes but not for us, poor people.  I don't know how people stand it living in places like Oklahoma where this is normal.

More of them coming tonight, huge front approaching, according to the Weather Channel, I'm amazed the dish is still up there. If you don't see me, hopefully I'll get on soon.

Jude: thank you for the EL name things, good one. You say I think Simon was murdered.  We are three quarters thru the book and no murder?

We have murder(s)! We have Barry and Odette and  Simon.

Or we think Simon.


____________


I know nothing of medicine. How might Simon have been killed that they would attribute it to diabetes? Who reported it as having been from diabetes? I realize this is an Italian hospital. Still.

-----------Sandy and JoanR, would you believe I read right over that? I love that!!! Every book needs a little Latin in it, good for you!

------------Bella, she's young, tho and she's not thinking.  She's not thinking at all, but we are. Woman has no radar at all.

-----Babi, I loved this:

  We really do have to bear in mind, don't we, that one of the primary techniques in writing a good mystery, is to variously point the finger of suspicion at just about everyone and try to mislead the reader/sleuth.

I'm finding it very hard to separate perceptions from facts. More than
once I've accepted as fact what was presented to me, only to discover
that it wasn't so. Ms. Goodman has been very clever at telling us what
happened, while allowing us to make assumptions about why.



I like this. Hard to separate perceptions from facts. And the reason IS the writing, and Sophie's own perceptions. Agatha Christie did the same thing and was criticized for  her endings not having been mentioned before the end and red herrings. (Wonder where that expression came from?)  It will be interesting to see what happens in this one.


 But why would she make up such a story in order to go report to the Church. She is there as a Church representative, and reporting to them would be natural and appropriate. No,...she must have been doing something else.

I'm going to put that one in the heading, good one.

-----Andrea fabulous painting, golly moses, welll done!

-----Frybabe: good one: BUT I sure would like to know how Ely knew (assuming it wasn't ANOTHER coincidence) that Sophie was on the rock at the grotto

Is there a SPY there who could have radioed to him on that luxury yacht (bigger than Lyros's Parthenope, did you notice)?

What I could not figure out is WHY she felt the need to go there in the first place right that moment. What set that off, I wonder? Why THERE?

??

-----Gum, thank you for the Fibonacci sequence  and Pat H for the additional fascinating stuff on it, who knew? It's amazing to read English and really want to understand and not have a clue.

On weight loss, yesterday they did a profile of Heidi Klum who managed to lose 40 post partum pounds in 2 months. How one wonders did she do it and appear on stage as a slim nymph?

---Deems, exactly: You thought the affair came after Ely left for NM and I thought she had the affair before her living with Ely.  Obviously up front somewhere, our narrator (Sophie) is withholding, obfuscating, being dishonest (with herself, with us).

I agree. I  have been trying to figure out how this book manages to weave this spell.  Just enough side issues that anybody can relate to, interesting  side issues, emotions, key words that jump start the reader's heart, to distract even the most careful reader. We actually BECOME her, some of us, (some of you like Sandy were not snookered) and we also brush off, especially if we read fast, the warning signs. We have   a narrator who seems to care (feeling guilty about everything) and who has abandonment and who could not feel sorry for her, we're in her mind: first person.

I really think WE the reader are being placed  in a third plot as strange as that sounds.

In a way it's like a spell,  this is quite intriguing, at least as intriguing as the mystery in the scrolls. I am so glad we are reading this together, because if the best can't crack it, it's not crackable!

So how was Simon killed? What is Maria doing,  really? And for whom? Who is the Tetratkys operative? Who is the FBI operative? Who put the poppy? Why?

Why does Lyros need  Sophie? WHY?

more........(I MUST have one of those games!)

[bellamarie]

Gumtree, 

On weight loss, yesterday they did a profile of Heidi Klum who managed to lose 40 post partum pounds in 2 months. How one wonders did she do it and appear on stage as a slim nymph?

I HATE HER!!!           If we had her money, trainer, nanny etc. etc.  we could do it too.  lolol

[Gumtree]

Elgin is the FBI operative. Remember when Elgin showed Sophie what he said was an FBI report on the Tetraktys cult. Sophie kept the last page and passed it to Ely who discovered the FBI imprint together with Elgin's FAX No.  Sophie looks hard at it to decide whether it is false or not -If it weren't genuine why would Elgin take the trouble to fake the FBI imprint?

[bellamarie]

What is Maria doing,  really?

Maria has been the one character that has baffled me.  All I can see is she is there to represent the Catholic church to protect them from any possible controversies in case those scrolls  have theories on creation and Christ.  She really up to this point had me mistaking her for a nun.  Her behavior reminds me of a nun, someone so proper and detailed, and persnickety. Carol may surprise me in the next pages, but Maria hasn't held my interest.  I wonder who the Aunt is she felt it necessary to put lipstick and heels on for to look proper.

[ALF43]

Oh yeah, I'm going for Simon being murdered.  He had diabetes?  Who knows if he did or not? 
His blood sugar levels would have been checked when they admitted him, as it's a part of a metabolic profile that is routinely done.
  IF he was diabetic someone could easily have slipped into his room and opened up his IV (most probably a glucose solution), OR shot him some Insulin--  there are many variables, but I just don't buy the diabetic thing.  I think, personally that Ag (hmm- AG- is a symbol for gold)  'nass is the villian.

[ginny]

Ok: moment of truth. YOU tell US what's going on here? How do YOU make sense of what we see? You'll have to stick your neck out a bit? You may be wrong but what the heck, if you were reading this by yourself you'd be making conclusions?

If I could figure out why Lyros needs Sophie I do think it would all fall into place.

 I can't figure out what Ely is even doing there. He's working with the FBI? Er...they have put him on a luxury yacht? He's a...he's not the protected witness is he? What IS he? The Tetratkys expert?

Why can't he just send English messages? He's afraid somebody would see them. He sure is dumb about people knowing he's there, tho, see below.  So he sends cards somehow.  Boy I bet that's something to see, took quite a risk. Unless somebody else in the pay of the FBI (the Twins?) delivers them or a waiter in the restaurant.

He's floating about..what's the name of his boat...he's floating offshore all the time, surely that sets off the radar of the bad guys whoever they are on this island. He'd be hard to miss. Maria at least saw him, I'm sure of that with Sophie.  I mean when you're sitting looking out at the coast line in that area, every offshore boat, even down to the smallest fishing boat, sticks out like a sore thumb, much less a luxury yacht,  and if you have  a pair of binoculars, you'd know in a heartbeat who it was.

Tell you something else, too, in that area there are a LOT of boats on the water and a boat full of teenagers would have approached it before this.

 I think we must conclude that Sophie is about the only one who did not know he was there. Perhaps Maria was watching him swim ashore.

A former Tetratkys would  know who he was? Or not? How many of them can there be?

But we're still building toward the climax. We've got plenty of conflicts, mental and physical but we're building towards Phinea's big night and the parallel climax in our plot.

Was it Joan R who looked up one of the mystery cults and had nightmares, was horrified by what she read? You got THAT in spades. I don't recommend reading about any of them,  but there are many kinds, so this one appears a combo of several:  made up.

 Normally it's a sweet story: Demeter,  the goddess of grain, called Ceres by the Romans, from which we get cereal  (not wearing a corn halo, that was so cute) in grief because she lost her daughter Persephone to Pluto, god of the Underworld, in her grief did not plant or allow things to grow,  and so winter occurred. The birth of the seasons,  until Persephone could return for only 6 months, having eaten 6 pomegranate seeds. It's a charming story and very old.

Here we've got scorched earth and Sirens, that's a take off on the myth, one of many. So we're going to have take offs.

"Phineas" is expecting what, do you think? What do you realistically think he expects?

How will Sophie, sharing the same room, share that? Something is still wrong here, but what IS it? That's the $64,000 question.

Lake Avernus, one of the entrances to Hell, used to be thought so powerful that birds died when they tried to fly over it (they fly fine today over Lake Averno, very pretty).

What sense are you making out of all the threads? How could you kill somebody and have it look like diabetes? Who told the hospital he was a diabetic?

[ALF43]

oops sorry Ginny, we're posting at the same time.

What sense are you making out of all the threads? How could you kill somebody and have it look like diabetes? Who told the hospital he was a diabetic?

Remember it wasn't the hospital that said he had diabetes it was Lyros (wasn't it) when Sophie went in to visit Agnes at the hospital.

[ALF43]

also Ginny- the name of his boat is Persephone- the embodiment of earth's fertility.  Persephone was the Queen of the underworld, the innocent maiden.

[joangrimes]

I finished this book over the weekend.  I was so glad to get through it!!

Oh well, I know that you all are having fun with it.   I did not and that is all that I am going to say.  I don't want to be a spoiler .  I will just keep my big mouth shut about the whole thing.

Just wanted Alf and everyone to know that I did not give up on it but kept on reading until the end.


Joan Grimes

[Gumtree]

Joan Grimes: Good for you ! 

[ALF43]

Good for you Joan- you finished it, at least.  We all have different tastes and that is why we love to share in our discussions.  I've been in discussions, Joan, that people have literally drooled over, going on and on about how great the book was and I just shrug my shoulders and say, "well I must have missed that."

[ginny]

In this section Carol mentions the Phlegraean Fields. The Campi Flegrei, which means "burning fields," is nearby to Pozzuoli going up the coast from Naples to Cumae. Pozzuoli is the birthplace of Sophia Loren and quite ancient.

This entire area is spooky. Pozzuoli  is prone  to Bradyism in which the land will fall or rise by several feet, it's quite something but I thought for atmosphere you'd like to see the Phlegraean Fields and you'll see why they are called that: they are  smoking.

Solfatara is a volcano, which smokes and smells of sulfur: in some of these photos you can see the yellow sulfur. When you leave it you reek of sulfur.

This was taken in March,  and it's huge, you can't get it in a frame. You can see the jackets on the people looking, it was cold everywhere elsse  but not here. Here it's hot. Some thought of this as another entrance into Hell, sure looks like it, smokes, smells like sulfur, ground is burning hot and in the last photo here the ground is so hot it's bubbling up, the  actual ground is bubbling. THIS is one of the areas shot in the National Geographic DVD on Volcanoes.

This,  believe it or not, in 2008  is a park, a holiday park with restaurants and camping facilities. It's like a moonscape. Like all mysterious places it's got its share of myths on what is below:  the abode of Hephaestus? or Vulcan, blacksmith to the gods?  Another entrance to Hades?









The above is not ripples on the water or rain on the water, it's the earth itself bubbling. A land of mystery, and it's not hard to see why. By the way did you know that the Park Rangers at Old Yeller say it's only a matter of time before it blows sky high?

[ALF43]

Oh it reminds me of Yellowstone where the earth bubbles with the minerals.  They're hot and smoky but don't really smell of sulphur. If I remember correctly.

[Deems]

Ginny--You wondered about "red herring."  A question my students routinely ask and I therefore have an answer!  Years ago I looked it up (for the students).  It was a common practice to draw dogs off the trail by pulling a dried herring (strong odor) over the trail of whatever it was they were tracking to distract them; the dogs would all run off, following the smell of the herring and lose the original trail.  

[bellamarie]

Ginny,  If I could figure out why Lyros needs Sophie I do think it would all fall into place.

Maybe its a red herring.  I have already posted my theories and suspicions and am seeing them hold true so far.  I am also expecting a few red herrings too.  

[bellamarie]

Joan Grimes,

Just wanted Alf and everyone to know that I did not give up on it but kept on reading until the end.

Yes, I have been enjoying this discussion very much, although I will share with you I wanted to throw this book across the room a few times and give up on it.  I would come in here and see a question or post that would lure me back in.  I have a few books left unread, because I just could not bring myself to finish them.  I usually don't like not finishing a book but this one I have to see it to the end to see if all my theories and suspicions hold up.

[ginny]

Bella, well the only thing is, if it's a red herring the entire plot is shot? But it may be, it will be hard to wait till Sunday to read it.



On Monday if you'll all put  your final questions up (you'll have read to the end) Carol can answer them then.

Deems, isn't that fascinating! I did not know that herrings CAME in red, just look what you can learn in our book discussions, I won't forget that one, thank you!

Andrea, I had missed that, so Ely's boat is Persephone and Lyros's boat is Parthenope.

So Ely and the FBI have a plan. Sophie does not tell us what it is but they go  over it three times. It's important that she is not to "take any chances. If they find anything in the tunnels today, try to be the one who takes it back to be scanned. Don't do anything to make him suspicious."

Why should Sophie be the one to take it back to be scanned?

Don't do anything to make him SUSPICIOUS? Like hanging around the area in a luxury sail boat? hahaaa

"You see, Lyros needs to see Phineas's journal as it's scanned to find out where the missing scrolls are. Now he knows they're buried in the Siren's Grotto or one of the underground passages leading from the grotto fo the Chamber of the God."


The two Grottoes might be a bit coincidental here, surely when he decided to build his copy of the Villa Della Notte he didn't select a place with a grotto and deliberately build the bedroom over it, or did he?

Didn't you love Carol's explanation of the Nyx Statue? I did!

I spent half the book wondering what Shiner Bock was! hahahaa Have any of you ever tasted it? I  wish you'd look at this: their home page: http://www.shiner.com/

It's been a long time since somebody told me I was not old enough to do something and I did put my birthday in correctly? CUTE!!

[ginny]

I'll be doggoned. Look where it IS? Wouldn't it be fun if we ended up going out to San Antonio for our next Books Gathering to visit this place? And play  Tombola Smorfia? hahahaa  I don't drink but that should not be a handicap? hahahaa

[countrymm]

I too was getting pretty exasperated with the book.  I thought it was getting excessively lengthy and complex.  I lost interest in reading about Iusta and Phineas.  Perhaps if I had more interest and knowledge about mythology and Roman ruins, I could have hung in longer.  I've loved the discussion and the book has peaked my interest in Roman ruins to I've pulled out a 1961 book of mine called "The Dawn of Civilization" edited by Edward Piggott and published by McGraw Hill.  I AM learning new information and am grateful for that.

Last week I stayed up late one night and finished the book, so have not been posting any comments.  Perhaps when everyone has finished reading Night Villa, we can discuss the ending and the characters. That would be fun.

Ginny, I'll bet you have had enough of the thunder storms and hail back there. Hope your weather settles down soon.  Read on, my friends!!!

[ginny]

Yeah I was just thinking the same thing. Here we are in a holding pattern, I'm about to die to finish the book: what do you think? Or as my 2 1/2 year old grandson said to me yesterday, "what about THAT?"  

Let's take a vote! What do you say?

How many vote to go ahead and read to the end and then start that discussion on this coming Friday? The day after tomorrow? We can observe tomorrow as time to read to the end and post any last minute predictions.

Yea or Nay?



Countrymm, the news broadcast just quoted somebody from the National Weather service saying that (I take back my remarks on living in Oklahoma!) this area of the country is one of the worst (!!) for these straight line winds or  whatever he said, not a tornado but winds of 100 mph last night, thank goodness all we got was a huge branch that tried to come thru the bedroom window (talk about BP?) hahahaa

But huge trees down the street are uprooted, huge oaks, it's unreal. That's enough of that!


I vote to go ahead now and finish the book and start discussing the last chapter this Friday (the day after tomorrow). I am SO ready to see how it ends and to hear YOUR thoughts on it and I know Carol will be interested too.

What's YOUR vote?

[ALF43]

I  agree Ginny that it is difficult to be in a holding pattern BUT many of us have not read the entire book yet.  If you want to skip ahead I will agree. 

My concern is for our readers however.  Today is only Wednesday evening & each reader may not get the chance to complete the novel by Friday morning.
 What will happen to those folks that lag behind?   - there are nearly 100 pages left.


What say you all ?  This discussion has been yours from the beginning, dear readers, you have taken this novel and ran with it.  We take our lead from your interests.
And personally I have been impressed by all of your comments and your insight.

It's up to you. What say you all???

Read on?  Start discussion on Friday, Sunday?  It is in your hands and Ginny and I will await your comments.

Andy