Dead Wake by Erik Larson - October Book Club Online

[PatH]

heading
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October Book Club Online

Dead Wake
by Erik Larson

"Few tales in history are more haunting, more tangled with investigatory mazes or more fraught with toxic secrets than that of the final voyage of the Lusitania, one of the colossal tragedies of maritime history. It’s the other Titanic, the story of a mighty ship sunk not by the grandeur of nature but by the grimness of man." - ~ New York Times.

DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:

Week 1: to "Lusitania a Cavalcade of Passengers" p.89
Week 2: to "Lusitania: Helpful Young Ladies: p.191
Week 3: to "All Points Rumor p. 279
Week 4: to end p.353

For Your Consideration:

1. Theodate Pope: architect, social reformer, spiritualist, feminist, important early supporter of the Impressionist painters. Do any of you know today of anyone with such a wide range of interests and influence? Is it possible today?

2. "Ships do have personalities" What personality would you give the Lusitania? the U20?

3. Have you heard of the Arts and Crafts movement? Elbert Hubbard?

4. "Captain Hall saw that his new scheme for mystifying and misleading the enemy was beginning to have an effect" What effect did it have on our two ships?

5. President Wilson "was now a man in love." Might he have reacted more forcefully to earlier transgressions by the Germans if not distracted? Might it have made a difference?

6. Captain Turner delayed the start of the voyage: that few minutes made a difference. Is it fair to criticize him for this, as some did?

7. The U-boat crew had to run from one end to the other to keep the boat from disaster. Were you surprised at how primitive yet effective they were?

8. CONSPIRACT THEORISTS AHOY! Room 40 knew the sub and Lusitania were in the same area. they had destroyers near-bye that had just finished escorting another ship, and could have escorted L. but nothing was done. Was it deliberate? Pros and cons.
 

"It took more persistance than I thought, but I finally found it: dead wake is "the trail of a fading disturbance in the water"- PATH

Discussion Leaders:  Ella & JoanK

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[PatH]

Don't rush me, Ella, I'm still reading.  I'll try to marshall my arguments quickly.

[JoanK]

BARB: GOOD DEFENSE. you're our official defense lawyer.

BELLAMARIE: the Mad Hatter would be a good person to get in on this. Do you have his e-mail address?

JONATHAN: good parallel with Coventry.

Are we really like trying a dead Pope?

I'll wait for more posts before counting the votes. COME ON EVERYONE. WHERE DO YOU STAND?

[marjifay]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to toss this book back to the library.  It has just too many details in it that don't interest me.  I really don't care about every little item of clothes that people are packing for the trip.  I'm falling asleep reading it, and I'm not even a quarter of the way thru it.

Marj

[JoanK]

MARJ: I had the same trouble with parts of this book.

Creative skipping is a great skill to learn. When I'm in part of a book like that, I zoom down the page, looking at the first sentence of every paragraph, waiting for a subject that interests me. If I don't find one in a few pages, I skip to the next chapter and try. (Of course at some point, you have to give up).

[marjifay]

Thanks, Joan K.  I'll give creative skipping a try.  I'm afraid I don't have a lot of patience when a book becomes boring.  I have 32 books out from the library, and I'm sure others must be more interesting than this one.
I'm interested in reading about WWI an 2, and have Margaret MacMillan's The War That Ended Peace; the Road to 1914 waiting, as well as Given Up for Dead; America's Stand at Wake Island by Bill Sloan.  Also The Pity of War by Niall Ferguson.

Marj

[JoanK]

In any case, you can follow a lot of the discussion without reading the book, since we repeat the point we're talking about in the discussion.

[Ella Gibbons]

MARJ, its true, a lot of details in the book, some like it; others would like a more concise history of the events.  Erik Larson writes details in all his books,  and I've read them all.  He is an author who digs deep and loves every bit of it; he has 58 pages of Notes and Biblio in the back of the book; which has been on the NYT bestseller of nonfiction for weeks and weeks and almost unobtainable in most libraries, so there is an audience for his type of reading. 

Sorry to see  you go.

[Ella Gibbons]

Personally, if I were a staff member in Room 40 I would certainly send out a convoy to protect the Lusitania, I could not, in good conscience, see that ship of passengers go down, I just couldn't.  Who knows what the future holds as far the Germans making an all-out offensive in the waters off the coast of England.

I vote them guilty.

[Ella Gibbons]

Any more votes from the jurors?

[PatH]

I'm the prosecutor for Room 40.  I'll present my case shortly.

[PatH]

I am here to present the case against Room 40, for allowing the sinking of passenger ship Lusitania.

Defendant will argue that it was necessary to protect the knowledge that Britain had a copy of the German Naval Code.  This had to be kept secret to insure learning of an invasion of Britain, saving many more lives than would be lost by the sinking of one ship.  However, protecting Lusitania would not have led the Germans to suspect this.  Submarine activity in the area between England and Ireland had greatly increased, and there had already been several encounters between British ships and German subs.  The British had already diverted the courses of several liners, and provided escorts for them.  The area was full of British destroyers who had just finished escorting another ship.  The Germans had published a warning, widely reprinted in newspapers, that passenger ships were at risk from them.

It would be an obvious decision to provide an escort for the Lusitania, and order her to zig-zag and take a safer course.  No special knowledge would be assumed.  Why was no escort provided?

Perhaps Room 40 was indifferent to the ships fate.  This would be inexcusable, since civilians were at risk, and the ship was incurring additional risk by carrying munitions for the British government.

Perhaps the oversight was accidental.  The First Lord of the Admiralty was in Paris, and the First sea Lord, in charge, was on the verge of breakdown, and not functioning well.

Or perhaps this was a deliberate omission.  The sinking of Lusitania, with loss of many American lives, would anger America, and draw her into the war, shortening it and assuring British victory.

None of these possibilities is excusable.

[BarbStAubrey]

I liked in an earlier post someone said the Lusitania was a pawn - seems that may be the best description - if not a pawn to gathering stronger allies then a pawn to leave on the board while others were out of town or out of decision making ability or a pawn that minimizes anything that is not a direct threat to the queen.

[bellamarie]

Well, I finally finished reading up to pg. 290 "Helpful Young Ladies" which is where were are to stop.  As for my opinion, which I will give from a civilian's point of view, since I have no lawyer skills for defense or prosecution, although, I think I shall come from the judge's point of view, since as a mother I have had to wear that hat throughout my life...hee hee

I have to say there are numerous people culpable in the sinking of the Lusitania.  I will list who and why:

1.  Churchill.....In a letter he wrote to the head of England's Board of Trade, Walter Runciman, "For our part, we want the traffic__the more the better; and if some of it gets into trouble, better still."  His motive was to draw the U.S into the war to side with Britain, and what better way than to have Americans on the Lusitania killed.
2.  Wilson..... Warnings were known of the dangers of ships being torpedoed in the waters, he did nothing to have an investigation done, making sure this British ship leaving the New York harbor was in no way carrying contraband that could put the Americans on board into harm, and he did nothing to ensure the safety of the Americans he knew were on this ship.  As the president of the office he swears to protect and uphold.  He failed to do so.
3.  Cunard.....Being the owner of the ship it was their place to ensure the safety of all passengers, heeding the warnings rather than dismissing them was neglect on their part.  Also placing munition and weapons on the ship was putting every person on board in harm's way knowing the laws of neutral ships carrying anything that would aide the British.
4.  Chief of Staff Oliver
5.  Captain Hall
6.  Fisher......."They were given the reports of the locations by Room 40 that a sub was sighted 12 miles south of Daunt Rock Light, a lightship anchored outside the entrance to Queenstown Harbor, The time of the sighting was 9:30 p.m.  By comparing the locations of these attacks with previously intercepted wireless reports, it should have become obvious to someone that the U-boat involved was Kptlt. Walther Schwieger's U-20  and that Schweiger was now operating in the heart of one of Britain's primary sealanes. The Admiralty was well aware the Lusitania would soon traverse these same waters but made no effort to provide specifics of the night's events directly to Captain Turner."  The four destroyers escorting the HMS Orion could have easily been directed to escort the Lusitania into safety.
7.  Room 40, they withheld vital information that could have altered this from happening. 

It's obvious so many were to blame for the sinking of the ship.  Some neglectful, some with motives of their own, some lacking capacity to make good decisions any longer, leaders who were too busy living their own lives to care about the warnings or safety of others.  The owner of the ship was in direct violation. If I were a judge having to determine blame and culpability I would have ordered all of these involved to pay some sort of restitution to the families who lost loved ones. 

BUT...... I also have to place blame on each adult who boarded the ship with knowledge of the dangers sailing in war time, traveling in dangerous waters.  Especially those who had read the newspaper article and chose to board in spite of the warnings of danger. 

Barb, I did giggle with you, wondering if possibly your 90 degree weather has caused you a bit of delirium, trying a dead Pope!!

Marj, I have found this book so fascinating I haven't wanted to put it down or stop at the assigned pages, although I have.  I am like Joan, I can easily skim the uninteresting parts.  I took a speed reading class years ago, and it taught me to skim quickly. 

We have to be close to the sinking of the ship since we are at May 6th, so get your life vests, grab your precious children, huddle together and begin praying, because you are in for some rough waters ahead!

[Jonathan]

Don't go, Marj. What does Niall Ferguson say about the Lusitania sinking. Every account of WWI must have a reference to it. I would like to quote from Morris Eksteins' book, Rites of Spring:

'At the Madison Avenue Baptist Church in New York the Reverend Charles Aubrey Eaton attacked  Woodrow Wilson for not avenging the Lusitania. It had to done "if it took ten million men, if our cities were laid in the dust and we were set back a hundred years." ' p236

Josiah Royce, a professor at Harvard, had up until that point refrained from mentioning the war in his classes. But when he learned of the fate of the Lusitania, he could no longer restrain himself. "I should be a poor professor of philosophy, and in particular of moral philosopy, if I left my class in the least doubt as to how to view such things,' and he went on to refer to "these newest expressions of the infamies of Prussian warfare".' p167

A great prosecutorial statement, Pat. Much to think about in it. But I'm under the impression that Room 40 was an intelligence agency, for the gathering and interpretation of information. Was it an embarrassment for the First Lord and the Sea Lord who presumably made the decisions, and who subsequently pleaded, defensively, absence (in Paris) or, in the case of the other, nervous exhaustion, as Barb suggests?

At first I was distracted by all the detail, but I'm beginning to enjoy it. It has become interesting to read that 'In Washington the dawn brought only a lovely spring Saturday....The day promised to be one in which Wilson could indulge his dream, his hope, of love and an end to loneliness.' p114

For the photographers catching the departure of the Lusitania, 'The day was cool and gray - "rather dull".' p116

For Captain Turner...he 'maintained a slow speed, especially in the Narrows, which were always clogged with ocean liners and freighters, and perilous in fog. Bells peeled in the haze as random wakes tipped buoys, evoking the sounds of churches on Sunday morning.' p120

Fog as a peril! What an irony.

[JoanK]

More properly, we are trying Room 40s bosses.

Good summing up, judge BELLAMARIE! Who disagrees?

JONATHAN: "'In Washington the dawn brought only a lovely spring Saturday....The day promised to be one in which Wilson could indulge his dream, his hope, of love and an end to loneliness."

AHHHH! As a native Washingtonian, I know exactly what he is talking about! the weather there is lousy most of the year (Sorry, but it is!) and then you get these absolutely glorious Spring days when you feel the world is wonderful and you can do anything!

Here in Southern California where the weather is great most of the year, I MISS THOSE DAYS!

[PatH]

We haven't yet heard from the attorney for the defense.  Anyone?

I thought about the dead Pope as I was writing.  At least Room 40, if it's still around, is probably only musty.

[ANNIE]

Here's a link to the invention of sonar which  comes up in the chapter about the U-20. 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonar

Way more than you ever wanted to know but interesting.

Bella, yes, your list is correct.  My book, just written, about the many mistakes that Wilson made in taking us to war is at the library and I will pick it up tomorrow.

[bellamarie]

Jonathan, "I'm under the impression that Room 40 was an intelligence agency, for the gathering and interpretation of information."

I have the same impression, it makes me think of the special team who does the intercepting and collecting of special codes then passes it on to the central command room where top aides, generals, president etc., then make the decisions what to do with the information.

I saw the movie The Imitation Game, about Alan Turing and how Alan is welcomed to Enigma alongside five others including Peter Hilton (Matthew Beard), John Cairncross (Matthew Beard), and Hugh Alexander (Matthew Goode). They have got their hands on an actual Enigma machine smuggled out of Berlin but they don't know the machine's settings to decode messages. Every night at midnight, the Germans refresh the settings; because they intercept their first message every morning at 6 A.M., the code breakers only have 18 hours a day to crack the code before it changes and they must start from scratch. Hugh, a chess champion, is able to calculate that this means there are 159 million million million possibilities every day. Alan is reluctant to work as a team; Stewart Menzies, the Chief of MI6, tells them that four men have died in the last few minutes because the code remains uncracked and orders them to begin. he built the first computer to break the codes and help win WW1.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2084970/synopsis

In the movie they did not use the information right away in relocating ships, because of fear the Germans may figure out they have deciphered their codes.  They used the information and locations of ships to out maneuver without suspicion, saving thousands of lives and bringing the war to an end much sooner.  Not the case in this story, if anything it cost thousands of lives.

 

[bellamarie]

PatH., 

We haven't yet heard from the attorney for the defense.  Anyone?

It's almost indefensible, the neglect and incompetence that caused this.  I'm sure they had defense lawyers, and they probably tried blaming everyone else.

[ginny]

I'm trying to catch up, having gotten my book back from my DIL who enjoyed it and who was in a book discussion about it, also. Seems a good choice.

I thought for some reason you were on page 289 and thought I would NEVER catch up.

Now I see you are not. So I'll act as Devil's Advocate for the Defense.

I don't see, having read up to page 207, primarily by reading every Room 40 chapter, deliberate risk of life. I see a lot of hindsight conclusions and author conclusions and the very clever way it's written gives a lot of suspense, the alternating of Room 40 with the movement of the ships, very clever.

It seems to me that Room 40's purpose was "interrupting the flow of war materiel to Germany" and "combating the growing U boat threat to British commerce."  (page 82) in the midst of  England's being attacked in the First World War: the War to End all Wars,  in which nobody knew what they do now about world warfare.

In every turn I've read, and I've read very fast and not well, there seems to be able to be winnowed out the chain of command was busy. It's said over and over in many ways. England was at war, under attack. The leaders were elsewhere, involved elsewhere and this seemed to fly under the radar, possibly overlooked in the other horrors being reported, from Ypres, for instance. I think this is a case of negligence in a very turbulent wartime and was not intentional. Yes there is the Churchill  quote, about if they get in trouble and wanting the help of the US, presented the way it was. I think the way that is positioned in the book makes it look like Churchill deliberately wanted to let it be sunk to get America into the war. I think the quote is taken out of context, and  I don't think allowing a ship to be sunk was on his mind. Trouble is one thing. Blown from the earth is another.

I think the chain of command, despite being apparently well formed,  broke down, the inexplicable not providing escorts and news of the Uboat in the vicinity was confusion/ negligence, and inattention which the author himself hints at several times. And I think a good defense attorney,  which I am not, could have them exonerated for paying too much attention to point A which was their job, and somehow  neglecting this gigantic Point B facet, which led as it so often does, to a terrible tragedy.  An oversight in the chain of command obsessed with other things as so often happens in war.

I think it's neglect without intent and I move they be exonerated., Has there ever been any sort of trial or inquiry to Room 40 in this incident before this book? I also think in order to make it suspenseful, the author himself has thrown out some...slants/ hints/ideas of his own iced with hindsight. Is the hindsight right?

I think a much bigger question is who knew what she carried? And I haven't gotten there yet, but that's my question and that will determine guilt and on whom.

I move the charges be dismissed. And now I hope to catch up as you're not as far as I thought. The Defense does not rest,  but reads on.

[BarbStAubrey]

here is a tidbit - how the ladies dressed - in fashion evidently this vintage is called the Titanic look - interesting...

http://www.vintagevictorian.com/costume_1912.html

[Ella Gibbons]

If I remember correctly, which anymore is not very likely, the ship was carrying munitions for the British.   I'll have to find the quote but even a stewardess knew they had munitions onboard and joked to one of the passengers that if they sank, they wouldn't go down, they would go UP!

Does that change anyone's opinion here?  It's not entirely a passenger ship is it?  In all fairness to the U-20 if they knew that fact, it would give the sub ample reason to fire on it, wouldn't it?  Even without that knowledge, Captain Schweiger would possibly have fired on it, he wanted another prize to add to his record.  I must go back and read and bring more evidence.  We must be fair to all in this trial.

It's been pointed out by several of our jurors here that Room 40 was keeping their code-breaking machine secretive to use as a defensive measure should therer be an all-out attack by the German Fleet.

Understandable.  Decisions similar to this have probably been made by commanders in wartime over and over.  Who would want the job?

So where are we?  Perhaps we should table this for awhile and move on to the discussion of the two captains, Captain Turner and Captain Schweiger. 

How responsible was each captain in this tragedy? 

[Ella Gibbons]

I must digress for just a few moments to post this famous poem.   For years on Armistice Day we were all given poppies to wear on our clothing and people in parades wore them.   Is that still done today?

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
 Between the crosses, row on row,
 That mark our place; and in the sky
 The larks, still bravely singing, fly
 Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
 We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
 Loved and were loved, and now we lie
 In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
 To you from failing hands we throw
 The torch; be yours to hold it high.
 If ye break faith with us who die
 We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
 In Flanders fields.

[JoanK]

Very good defense, GINNY! We are, as always when reading history, at the mercy of the author: what he chooses to tell us and how he presents it. And it does make a very good story.

Any more comments before we wrap this up?

Meanwhile, how nice to be distracted by something as light as fashion, BARB. I can't help thinking of what it would be like to try to swim in those gowns.

[JoanK]

ELLA: I've always heard about that poem, but not seen it before.

And yes, Room 40 is very reminiscent of Bletchley Park in WWII. And JONATHAN reminded us earlier there is still controversy over not warning Coventry that they were going to be bombed. If you were in charge of deciding when to warn people that you knew what the Germans were up to, how would you handle it?

[ginny]

That Flanders Field poem always chokes me up. What a beautiful poem that is.

Yes there is still a Poppy Day  here, but I'm not sure everybody knows why. When I went to Belgium I wanted to see the poppy fields. Apparently poppies are most prevalent where the earth has been recently disturbed, and there weren't any there.  That's a sobering thought.  I can't think that's true, they are all over the Roman Forum and the Italian countryside.

[BarbStAubrey]

Yes, and it used to be called Armistice Day and at 11: everything stopped for a minute - all the traffic - all conversation - everything and someplace in town or nearby there was always a bugler blowing taps then all would resume. There was usually a parade that including the women's auxiliary for Veterans of Foreign War and the last of the Civil War Veterans usually being pushed in a wheel chair along with the men who had fought the first WW.

[bellamarie]

I have read up to chapter Helpful Young Ladies where we are to stop.  On my ipad Air it is page 289.

Since I have assigned myself the judge, I have to deny Ginny's motions,

I move the charges be dismissed.

I think it's neglect without intent and I move they be exonerated.

Intent does not have to be established, to show the neglect was present, and did factor into the deaths of the passengers aboard the ship.  With all due respect your argument was more strong for the wrongdoings, of those involved.  Intent is 9/10ths of the law, but it does not exonerate a wrongdoing.  Many knew there were munition and weapons aboard the ship, which shows intent to violate the war time laws of neutral ships not carrying anything to aid in fighting the war, thus ultimately putting every passenger at high risk should it be stopped for inspection.  I do have to say I would take into consideration Room 40's responsibilities, but they did not have the right to take it upon themselves to decide to withhold information from their superiors.  This clearly shows intent and dereliction of duty on their part, to violate their responsibilities causing the course to continue, and the fate of the sinking of the ship, resulting in the deaths of those aboard.

Ella, 

Captain Schweiger would possibly have fired on it, he wanted another prize to add to his record.

This is probably true, making it even more important for all others to do, due diligence in keeping the ship and passengers out of harm's way.

 

[BarbStAubrey]

Headline NY Times

CAPT.TORMRDIES; LUSITANIA MASTER; Went Down With Liner and Was Rescued After Being in Water Two Hours. HE BEGAN AS A DECK BOY The Ivernia, Also Commanded by Him, Was Torpedoed In the Mediterranean In 1917.

Spoclal Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES.

Death notice: June 24, 1933, Section, Page 13,

[JoanK]

BARB: interesting. torpedoed twice and survived!

I see I should have thought more about how to end this trial. If it's majority vote, Room 40's boss is convicted. If it's a jury trial, we seem to have a hung jury (i.e. the jury is divided, so charges would be dismissed). We will see at the end of the book what actually happened (I don't know, and am eager to find out.

[Ella Gibbons]

I am too, JOANK.

Thanks for the poppy picture Ginny!  Here is the author of the poem - he was killed in 1917.



An article on the poppy:  http://www.greatwar.co.uk/article/remembrance-poppy.htm

[JoanK]

We'll start the next section in a few days, so you might want to start reading. But plenty to still talk about.

BARB's post about clothes reminds me of something we haven't talked about yet: the contrast between the culture on the boat and in New York before sailing, with lavish parties, millionaires, social reformations, and what was going on in Europe with the desperate fighting and tense Room 40. (We don't get to see what European civilians were doing, but I doubt they were having parties) Mirroring the difference between the uncomfortable, terrifying time of sailors on the sub versus the people on the Lusitania.

I can see it as a movie now, switching back and forth between the two.

[bellamarie]

I found this article a bit interesting....The Germans argue the ship sank due to the explosive munitions on board.  Of course there are arguments against it. 

But it seems silly to conjure conspiracy theories from the murk of wartime propaganda, nationalist sentiment and even amid the current Internet-fueled enthusiasm for such theories: the cargo manifest lists 50 barrels of aluminum powder and 50 barrels of bronze powder. Both of these powders, if fine enough, and thrown into the air, say, by a torpedo explosion, present an explosion hazard. This from the Aluminum.org Web site: “In the case of aluminum, explosions can result if ignition occurs while particles are suspended in the air as a dust cloud, as the burning extends from one particle to another with extreme speed.” The same with bronze powder. And when these powders come into contact with water (perhaps, say, seawater rushing in through a gash in a boat hull), they both give off hydrogen gas, which, as we remember from the Hindenburg disaster of 1937, is explosively flammable. It seems likely that a few barrels of ordinary cargo and common chemistry helped one torpedo sink this grand ocean liner. But arguments about cause aside, the loss of this ship full of civilians still ranks as one of the many tragedies of the Great War for Civilization.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/anecdotes-from-the-archive/sinking-the-lusitania-part-2-death-and-blame-may-7-1915/

This is especially interesting and could shed light on our little mock trial:

There were also concerns that American survivors and relatives of those who died could take legal action against the British government if it emerged that the passengers on board the Lusitania had been unaware of its dangerous cargo.
In a memo, NH Marshall, from the FCO's North American department, said: “The facts are that there is a large amount of ammunition in the wreck, some of which is highly dangerous. The Treasury have decided that they must inform the salvage company of this fact in the interests of the safety of all concerned.”

The FCO's own legal department sought to assure ministers that there was not the "remotest chance" of Britain being held liable for the loss of American lives so long after the event.
However, Mr Marshall remained deeply dissatisfied with what he had heard, suspecting that the truth was still being withheld.
"I am left with the uneasy feeling that this subject may yet - literally - blow up on us," he wrote.
"I suspect that on reflection the Treasury have decided not to tell all that they know. In general, I do not find this a satisfactory basis on which to seek Foreign Office advice."

The sinking of RMS Lusitania was one of the most tragic – and pivotal – events of the First World War. It was also one of the most controversial.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-one/10798567/Ghosts-of-the-RMS-Lusitania-could-have-come-back-to-haunt-Britain.html

I strongly admonish all people that had a part in the sinking of the ship, whether proven in the court of law, through investigations or reports.  There were grave mistakes, motives, and actions that could have prevented this atrocity from ever happening.  This case is dismissed on grounds of wartime events. 

I agree with..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_RMS_Lusitania   (this article has some great information in it)

"Schwieger was condemned in the Allied press as a war criminal." 

He and he alone gave the command to fire the torpedo, killing those passengers and crew on board.

All rise, the most honorable Judge Bellamarie has concluded, this trial has come to an end.

As any government will do....a cover up, to cover up, leaves us to know only what was released, in the best interest of all nations.  An author can only give us what he is able to find through his research, and he is only able to find what was allowed to be released.   

 

[BarbStAubrey]

Ha of course the allies were going to blame it all on Captain Schwieger - not only was he the enemy, he died soon after the sinking of the Lusitania - easy to blame a dead guy - and then, when history was written Germany had lost the war...

Found this question and answer...

Hello,
Could someone tell me what exactly happened to Captain Walther Schwieger, the man who sank the Lusitania? Was he celebrated as a hero in Germany or was he shunned? I heard he was awarded a medal, but I want to know if that's true.

Likewise, did he ever have any regrets for sinking the ship or did he believe he was just doing his duty? If someone could give me a little biography about the man, I'd be most grateful. Best regards, Lawrence

After the storm of protest caused by the Lusitania disaster, the Kaiser called a halt to unrestricted submarine warfare. This caused a temporary lull in sinkings, though Schwieger and U-20 managed to sink the defensively armed White Star liner Cymric during this period. Unbeknownst to Schwieger, the liner was carrying the body of one of the Lusitania victims home to America at the time.

On November 5th, 1916 whilst trying to assist another U-boat, the U20 ran aground in fog off the Danish coast. She resisted all attempts to refloat her and during the attempt to rescue Schwieger and his crew, the German Battleship KronPrinz Wilhelm, which was providing protective screening for the rescue operation, was torpedoed by the British submarine J1.
 
The stranded wreck of the U-20 off Denmark, seen here after Schwieger's hasty attempt to blow her up, to prevent her from falling into enemy hands.

KronPrinz Wilhelm limped back to base, only to end her days at the bottom of Scapa Flow, in Scotland, when the interned German warships scuttled themselves in a last great act of defiance in 1919. The Danish government eventually removed the wreck of U20 some years later, as she was a hazard to navigation. The remains of U-20 are now a static display in Denmark, open to the public.

After U20 was lost, Schwieger was given command of the slightly larger U88 on April 7th, 1917 and on 30th July 1917, he was awarded Germany's highest decoration for gallantry; the "Pour Le Merite" medal, or "Blue Max" as it was more popularly known, in recognition of his having sunk a total of 190,000 tons of allied shipping. He was the 8th U-boat commander to receive this covetted award. The citation for his award did not mention his largest victim; the Lusitania.

The "Blue Max".

Schwieger was killed in action six weeks later, on September 5th 1917.
Whilst being pursued by the Q-Ship HMS Stonecrop, the submerged U88 struck a British laid mine off the Frisian island of Terschelling in the North Sea. The British were quick to credit HMS Stonecrop with this "kill" as it made for good propaganda, but the mine that proved fatal to Schwieger was not laid by HMS Stonecrop at all, and she certainly had not fired upon U-20 with any effect during the chase.

Walther Schwieger was seven months short of his 33rd birthday when his worst nightmare became a reality. There were no survivors from the U88, whose last recorded resting place is 53,57N - 04,55E.

At the time of his death, Schwieger ranked 6th in the league table of top-scoring U-boat commanders and was therefore officially a U-boat "Ace".

In May of 1918, the first boat of "Project 46" was launched. Project 46 was a class of U-Cruiser and the very first was U139, which was named "Kapitan-Leutnant Schwieger" in honour of his memory.

[BarbStAubrey]

look a here - our author Erik Larson

[Ella Gibbons]

Back up , folks, let's not get to the end of the story until we have discussed the middle!  So many questions still to be answered in my mind, as well as your own. 

Thanks for the picture of our author, BARBARA, now on to the book!!

Larson spent years in his research of the sinking of the ship, we can probably get all our answers from our book.

I want your opinion of Captain Turner and whether he was blameless in this tragedy?

[JoanK]

And I'm confused about the role of the German high Command. Surely the last thing they would have wanted would be for the US to enter the war. I'm wondering if President Wilson had responded more forcefully to earlier german attacks involving Americans, if they would have reigned in their subs earlier?

[bellamarie]

I believe Turner and all the others I listed in my prior post had some blame.  But regardless, it appears Schwieger was the fall guy.  There is always a fall guy, and it was easy to make it him, since he gave the order, and as Barb points out, it's easy to blame the dead man.  I feel Larson has provided us with the answers, although he would only be able to have access to what was released.  What ever was covered up, he nor we will ever know, that is why it still remains controversial today.

I do think the loved ones could have joined together in a class action suit against Cunard, the owner of the ship, on the fact the ship owner, the captain and crew members were aware of the munition on the ship, and as you could see in the articles I posted, there were mitigating arguments, that only one torpedo was launched, and it was the explosives on board the ship, that was to blame for the ship actually going down.  Not sure if there would be enough discovery to win the suit.

Thanks Joan for the heads up to begin reading the next section.  I am anxious to see what happens. 

[JoanK]

Yes, we start the next section tomorrow.

Last thoughts on this one? Or any one?

Off to read!