Author Topic: Shadow of the Silk Road ~ Book Club Online ~Spring 2019 Starts March 11!  (Read 18477 times)

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Shadow of the Silk Road

Come on along with us - Monday, March 11
We're joining Colin Thubron on his 7,000 mile journey along the greatest land route on earth. Out of the heart of China into the mountains of Central Asia, across northern Afghanistan and the plains of Iran and into Kurdish Turkey.

   Reading Schedule
March 11 - 17..... Pages 1 - 95
March 19 - 24..... Pages 96 - 150
March 25 - 31..... Page 154 - 218
April 1 - 7............ Page 219 - 284
April 8 - 14.......... Page 284 - 344

Topics to Note and Discuss
1. SARS virus and impact on the author’s journey
2. Inventions spread East and West
3. Behaviors and Values of the Chinese people
4. Characters met along the way
5. Caves and Objects at Dunhuang
6. Religions and Places of Worship found along the way
7. The various means of Transportation
8. Add any additional 'Legends and Myths' of Ruins, Monuments, Tribes and Historical Individuals

Discussion Leaders: BarbStAubrey

BarbStAubrey

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欢迎来到丝绸之路的阴影 - Huānyíng lái dào sīchóu zhī lù de yīnyǐng 
Welcome to the Shadow of the Silk Road

Hi everyone - are y'all looking forward to the journey - he sure travels across lots of land that we seldom heard about until the wars in Afghan and the Chinese pushing monks out of Tibet - I'm still remembering the movie with Ronald Coleman about the hidden Tibet, Lost Horizon. I  remember how everyone in the theater took a deep breath when his love interest followed and turned decrepitly old as she crossed the footbridge. Now, there is no one who has not heard of the Dali Lama. 

I'm reading this along with y'all so that I too can be in awe, curious and excited over learning as we travel on this armchair venture - Colin Thubron sure has written many books about mostly this part of the world - I've already on my list the one about Tibet.

Ok please - one favor - if and when you post any photos - please keep them limited to a width of 450 - we are OK with length if the photo is narrow and long however please get the photo to fit on a screen and best is to preview what it looks like and then make the adjustment to the width and do not include the length.

in order not to have this example give instructions I will talk it out

[img, then a space, Width=450]http://here is where you put the HTML[/img]all you need to close it off is the simple [/img]

Ok I know there are several early birds so this conversation is open - tra la -
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Marking my spot. I haven't started reading yet.

Mkaren557

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What an interesting book!  I don't know if it is my poor brain but I am not finding it easy to read.  Usually I read a hard copy version, but because I can change the print size, I am using my kindle.  Another nice feature is the way I can define words as I read them.  As part of world history I taught the history of China in two chapters, not a lot of depth.  I have little exposure to most of the areas the author will travel through.   The story of the Yellow Emperor makes me wonder how much we teach as history is really myth and vice versa.  It will be a gorgeous day here in Sarasota.  Looking forward to a day-long visit with family.
 

ANNIE

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I am reading this on my iPhone so I too can change the size of the print. Who is the Yellow Emporer?
"No distance of place or lapse of time can lessen the friendship of those who are thoroughly persuaded of each other's worth." Robert Southey

BarbStAubrey

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Karen and Annie never dawned on me to change the size of the print when reading on the kindle - good idea - obvious but for some reason I just did not think.

Yes, the book opens sounding almost poetic doesn't it rather than drilling down into the language typical to a travel memoir.

Now to find out more about this Yellow Emperor - I had heard of the Yellow Emperor but had no idea he was a myth and then, who is this Wudi who founded the Temple - 2000 years ago - Wow that is back when Jesus walked this earth and the trees are older.  I didn't think trees lasted that long.

You do have to wonder don't you Karen about what is myth and what is not - been reading about our own history and wow the myths we were taught in school and shocking to me still believed so that well known TV folks carry on these myths -

Ok I'll be back later - have a few errands to run and then to look into the Yellow Emperor and Wudi.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Yellow Emperor

He was viewed as a historical figure and cultural hero of Chinese civilization.
Traditional birthdate: 2704 B.C. He is said to have ruled 100 years from 2697-2597 B.C.

He is credited with teaching human beings to build shelters, tame animals, build the bow and sling, and cultivate the five traditional Chinese cereal crops. He was said to have created crown of Chinese kingship and the traditional royal thrones used by kings. He taught the people astronomy, mathematical calculation, created the first calendar, gave the people a code of sound laws, and created the Chinese version of football. He is said to have inspired an early Chinese historian to create the first version of Chinese character writing.

One of his wives taught the people to weave baskets, farm silk worms and spin silk, and dye clothing. He is viewed as the founder of the Chinese central state and Taoism.

He was given the Tao philosophy and told how it could create a harmonious, cultured, and self-sufficient civilization aligned with the laws of the Universe. Upon his return, he began implementing what he had learned in his empire.

He was extraterrestrial or had connections to extraterrestrials.  He was said to have four faces that allowed him gaze in the four directions and know all that was going on in the world. He had the ability to communicate directly with the “gods” in his prayers and meditations. He was said to be accompanied by tigers, snakes, wolves, and flocks of fabled phoenix birds wherever he went.

For more than 3500 years, he was viewed as an historical figure and not mythological. During the Warring States Period, he was mythologized by one of the warring clans and this was latched onto by modern scholars who have sought to mythologize him. During the Cultural Revolution the aim was modernizing and liberalizing Chinese culture viewing anything associated with the old patrilineal system as evil. The Yellow Emperor was a virtual symbol of that history.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Interesting - after his death the Yellow Emperor became an immortal and Xian, is the word meaning an immortal. This first city where Colin Thubron starts his journey is Xian.

In the Taoist mythology of China, the Xian are a group of eight immortal characters who at one time lived as humans on earth. The Xian are said to travel the universe together in a state of perfect health and happiness. They perform various wonders and miracles and serve as models for those seeking the Tao, or way—the path to an ideal state of being and existence.

Read more: http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Wa-Z/Xian.html#ixzz5hu1Y7Hy4

OH my there are the Eight Immortals and also Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove.

http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Wa-Z/Xian.html

Well well well - Wudi is not a person at all but a time period

"The so-called "Three Augusts" and "Five Emperors" (sanhuang wudi 三皇五帝) were persons in early Chinese mytholgy. The "Five Emperors" or "Five Sovereigns" (wudi 五帝) were often seen as worldly, yet historically not tangible, rulers, while the Three Augusts ever had a more divine nature. The term wudi came up during the Warring States period 戰國 (5th cent.-221 BCE), while the term "Three Augusts" was created in the 3rd centry BCE. This trinity was chronologially antedated to the Five Emperors during the Han period 漢 (206 BCE-220 CE)."
 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Ah we have sound - Epic Chinese Music - The Yellow Emperor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gys7VCXmObs
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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I'll have to pass on the music until tomorrow when I get on my laptop again. I removed the external speakers from this machine because Shan was perpetually back there tangling himself up and pulling things off the desk.

There are a couple of things that got my attention when reading the first chapter. One was that the author states that the Huns and Turks managed to get to China, early on. Another was his statement, "The father of China was not Chinese at all." Then there is the inscription he saw that refers to the Yellow Emperor as "dragon-rider". I have not reat much fantasy but I did like Eragon and The Dragon-Riders of Pern. Of course I might just be a little partial to dragons since I am half Welsh.

BarbStAubrey

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frybabe that was on explanation that some of my Chinese clients explained to me - Unlike Egyptian, Greek, Roman or Christian dragons that were fierce, either guarding the sacred or representing evil, the Chinese and Japanese hold the dragon in high regard. Dragons symbolize power, happiness, and fertility and are believed to bring good fortune and wealth. The paper dragon during festivals represents happiness and fertility.

I've heard of the red dragon in Chinese culture but need to find it and yes, I can visualize the Welsh flag with the Red dragon on a field of white.

Found this - I like this site all about Chinese dragons

https://www.chinahighlights.com/travelguide/article-chinese-dragons.htm

frybabe are the dragons in fantasy novels fierce or benevolent?

 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Barb, fantasy novel dragons can have any sort of qualities, just like other characters, though I think they're more often good than bad.  In Eragon and the Pern books, the dragons and their riders form strong bonds, the dragons helping their riders.  Terry Pratchett used dragons for comic relief.

PatH

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I can see I'm going to have to take notes to keep places and characters straight.  And trade goods too.  Already I'm being surprised at what was invented where.  Stirrups, for instance.  I didn't know they came from China.  Or think of the fact that you couldn't be a knight in armor without something to hold your feet in place.

PatH

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The Yellow Emperor appears in the first chapter, and it's a nice touch when the author realizes that the father of China wasn't Chinese, just an invading nomad.

BarbStAubrey

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thanks Pat for the bit on fantasy dragons - I love to read myths, fables and fairy tales but just never did get into many adult fantasy novels - I've seen book covers featuring dragons but had no clue if they were evil or not.

Yes, keeping them all straight - he sure gives us a history lesson doesn't he - I'm almost tempted to get a copy for my kindle so that I can have access to a way for quick note saving and defining all these folks and places.

It is hard to realize there was a cultural and political center in China 3,000 years before Hellenistic Greece since Xi'an became a cultural and political center of China in 11th century BC.

I'm trying to figure out - it appears there is this huge monumental building and grounds devoted to the Yellow Emperor and maybe this is housed behind these huge entry buildings - but this photo and description sounds more like the description Colin uses describing the tomb of the Yellow Emperor since the photo caption talks about the ancient cypress around the mausoleum.



This shows the entire area for the Tomb of the Yellow Emperor and maybe the mausoleum is behind the large building where the grove of trees show in this shot

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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another tid bit - the web site for Xian lists as sights a bell tower and a drum tower - and this bit "In contrast to the Bell Tower, where bell was stricken at dawn, drum was beat at sunset to indicate the end of the day. On the Drum Tower's first floor, lies a hall which hangs many large drums. Each was decorated with intrinsic and beautiful Chinese writing, which symbolizes good fortune."

Could you just imagine as the sun sets hearing drums - I guess today when you think of it the roar of 5: traffic is our drum celebrating sunset. ;)
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Well now I am confused - an earlier link said Wudi was a time of the Warring States and now I find a link that says there was an Emperor Wudi, who was the seventh emperor of the Han Dynasty and after his death the Han dynasty went into decline. Emperor Wu of Han, born as Liu Che. He ruled the empire from 141 to 87 BC. Emperor Wu inherited the Han empire when he was 15. - I wonder if he was Emperor of one of the Warring States that said the Yellow Emperor was a myth.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Barb, have you seen this site? Lots of info. According to this site, Haung Di (the Yellow Emperor) was of the Xia Dynasty. The Zhou Dynasty is associated with the Xia. http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Myth/personshuangdi.html

Here is another website that has more views of the mausoleum and cypress trees. http://www.china.org.cn/english/features/atam/115072.htm  PLEASE NOTE: anyone who is squeamish about linking to a Chinese site might want to bypass this one.

BarbStAubrey

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Reading the first link frybabe and the Yellow Emperor sure sounds like a historical figure - there were many kings and Emperors that brought magnificent changes to their society and where a few of his gifts seem outlandish it reminds me of the Frankish King Clovis that I mentioned in the library - he is the one who married the Burgundian wife and crushed the Alemanni and the Visigoths and held back the Ostrogoths - well get this - He and all his sons inherit the belief that the blood in their veins gave them magical powers. They could make crops grow by walking in a field, interpret bird songs and the calls of the wild beasts, and they were invincible in battle provided, they did not cut their hair. Any more magical than the virtues ascribed to the Yellow Emperor?

As the European story goes, Clovis converted to Christianity however, that did not stop him from continuing to murder and plunder with no moral scruples. This continues for a couple of hundred years till his family goes into decline along with these magical powers. Then the bastard son of Pepin the fat, Charles Martel comes on the scene and in order to get the people to see his son, PepinIII as king, they are Carolingian, he gets the Pope to not only support PepinIII, the son, but to crown him king announcing God's blood is stronger then the blood of the Merovingian Franks. And that is the beginning of the Popes and Kings tied to each other's hips'. Amazing what folks believed before the world was round ;)

Which reminds me, somewhere in all this reading was a statement that the Han Dynasty lost its importance and went into decline - I remember reading about that a few years ago and it seems the uniches stealthily took over all the power and the infighting among them did in the entire court. Seems anyone around the King was a unich. 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Ah so the Yellow Emperor has tombs in several locations - two tombs built in Shaanxi, in addition to others in Henan, Hebei and Gansu provinces.
The photos on the website are the same as I found and posted one here so maybe that mausoleum is one of the tombs in Shaanxi since there are two.

I thought the entire bit about the change Colin notices in H'an a replica of what has happened here in Austin which makes me think I've heard this from others who live in other cities - reminded me of some of the memories shared by my grandmother before there were motor vehicles - I'm thinking all over the world we are going through not only physical and architectural changes but cultural change - instant communication around the globe has given folks a window into everyday life in just about every nation. Interesting the pace of the young nervous and directed. I'm seeing not so much nervous but rather buried in their Iphone so that their entire world is in that device.

Have you ever sat in a park and just watched as Colin notices the older folks doing? Is there major change happening where you live?
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Sort of off the reading but found this and had to share -

Daqin is the ancient Chinese name for the Roman Empire or, depending on context, the Near East, especially Syria. Chinese historians defined it as "the Roman Empire, or rather that part of it which alone was known to the Chinese, Syria". In various texts its capitals were given as Antioch and Constantinople, with no clear descriptions of the city of Rome. Its basic facets such as laws, customs, dress, and currency were explained.

Chinese sources describe several ancient Roman embassies arriving in China, beginning in 166 AD and lasting into the 3rd century. These early embassies were said to arrive by a maritime route via the South China Sea in the Chinese province of Jiaozhi (now northern Vietnam). Archaeological evidence such as Roman coins points to the presence of Roman commercial activity in Southeast Asia.

The first of these embassies is recorded in the Book of Later Han as having arrived by sea in 166 AD. Its members claimed to be representatives of the Daqin ruler "Andun", either Antoninus Pius or his co-emperor Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, and offered gifts to the court of Emperor Huan of Han.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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The first map in the book shows the Silk Road ending at Antioch. This is the first I've heard that the Romans made it to Southeast Asia via a sea route, but I have read that they may have reached the coast of India.

As far as the Silk Road is concerned, most of my reading has just involved areas of Persian to Tibet that where the British, French, and Russians (I think the Germans were in there too, a little) were intriguing during the mid 1800s to the early 1900s, the Brits trying to preserve exclusive trade rights in India and the others trying to gain trade with India.
 

BarbStAubrey

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The thoughts shared on page 50 really hit me - two in particular - "You can't relate Chinese life in English language. Because nothing really translates. Not culture, politics or even the everyday. The words don't fit. The concepts aren't there." followed by "The foundation of language is thought." Putting those two thoughts together it strikes me that even speaking English growing up in different cultural environments how easy it is to be talking past each other. The concept that language is thought opened my mind - such a simple realization.

And then on that same page the Li Bai verse I realized that is our life - we start in waters from our mother's womb rather than, the Yellow River, leap down from Heaven - not sure about heaven but, as innocent of all preconceptions with only the fear of falling, open to any influence, we are born, I doubt leaping but some babies do come quickly, then our life rolls us to the sea and true we never return again - we do not even backtrack on our roll to the sea.

Did any of his visits with these various travel contacts and old friends make a particular impression on you frybabe. Pat and Karen were y'all  affected by reading about these various travel contacts? 

I'm enchanted with Colin's writing - this is a joy to read - almost lyrical - the conversation about the various religions in the ancient Christian tower was another that was thought provoking. Had no idea that a form of Christianity reached China hundreds of years before the Jesuits arrived. Forgot how early Christianity had nothing to do with Latin and used the Syriac language.

I still have 30 more pages to read - this first week is the longest read but it all flowed as an extended stay in China. The following weeks the reads are only around 64 to 65 pages each week.  I'll finish up reading this evening - lots of errands today. 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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The Wheel of the Law (dharmachakra) is the single most important symbol of Buddhism, denoting the Buddha's First Sermon in the forest at Sarnath, where he set Buddhist Law (dharma) in motion.

Deer Park in Benares was the place where Buddha first caused the Wheel of the Good Law to revolve.

Wheel of Law and Deer of Benares

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Zhangye Buddha

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Wow - the Hanging temple of Matisi a youtube exploring many rooms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3RQAj8xdlU

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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youtube of First Pass under Heaven where a few or starting their 4000 mile journey along the Great Wall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE47W3BO5qw


“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Taklamakan caves and Taklamakan desert outside Dunhuang
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Once again, I am downstairs on my speakerless computer. Will check out the YouTube this afternoon. Looks interesting. Don't think I've heard of the hanging temple before. I didn't get any reading done yesterday what with appointments and working on taxes, so I am still just at the starting point.

BarbStAubrey

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Xiwangmu, (Chinese: “Queen Mother of the West”), in Daoist mythology of China, queen of the immortals in charge of female genies (spirits) who dwell in a fairyland called Xihua (“West Flower”).  Tradition describes the queen as a former mountain spirit transformed into a beautiful woman from a quasi-human with a leopard’s tail and tiger’s teeth. Her fairyland garden was filled with rare flowers, extraordinary birds, and the flat peach (pantao) of immortality.


“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Frybabe I just finding these photos - the youtube shows the average person living in the area and are remarkably alike the description Colin shares in his travels - the whole thing on the Romans in a losing battle where a few either escaped or were kept as slaves show up in the features, hair and eye coloring to this day in the area. Amazing... Evidently this took battle took place even before we learned they sent ambassadors, I think that was in 168AD - the battle where they formed their turtle protection was supposed to be 200 years before that. 

I'm really anxious to get to that part of the book and share your thoughts and what you know of this Roman invasion
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Barb, I don't know much about it, even forgot about it. I heard about Roman battle where they ended up going East, but I don't remember where, nor do I remember anything but a that it was a only a sentence or two about this may have happened.

 


BarbStAubrey

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thanks frybabe - it would be interesting to get the story from the Roman side but since it was wholesale slaughter maybe there is no history of this battle so far east in the annals of Roman History.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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I'm not too far into the section either, maybe a third, but I'm really enjoying it.  It's so rich, and there's so much to keep straight, and I haven't yet followed all those links.  Something Barb quoted particularly struck me:

The thoughts shared on page 50 really hit me - two in particular - "You can't relate Chinese life in English language. Because nothing really translates. Not culture, politics or even the everyday. The words don't fit. The concepts aren't there." followed by "The foundation of language is thought." Putting those two thoughts together it strikes me that even speaking English growing up in different cultural environments how easy it is to be talking past each other. The concept that language is thought opened my mind - such a simple realization.

Yes, I think that's very true.  I'm not sure which comes first--you think the way your language lets you, or you construct your language to fit the way you think, or both.

An example: Hungay has produced a surprising number of mathematicians, and this is said to be because the logic of the language is mathematical.  One of my daughters did a math semester abroad in Budapest, and said that whether or not it's cause and effect, the language logic fits.

PatH

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Speaking of Roman presence in the Indian Ocean, Amazon sent me this ad:

     https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1526738074?ref=em_1p_1_im&ref_=pe_3730140_399512490

You have to scroll down a way to reach the description.

BarbStAubrey

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Oh my goodness Pat - the link opened pandora's box of books - on and on - I've enough books saved for over a year's reading - these various ancient groups - the various names and stories that you hear mentioned now and again are all there with book after book that I had never known or accessed - wow - did you see the one about the Magyard origins and how they are now stepping back from the language connection with Finno-Ugrian origins leaning toward Indo-Iranian and Sanskrit - the one that has me by the heals is a large tome that may only sum things rather getting into the nitty-gritty but at this juncture that may work best By Steppe, Desert, and Ocean: The Birth of Eurasia - I also need to understand the difference between the Sumerians and the Assyrians. Then there is the Viking beginnings and still more of the European early groups not even touching Russia - wow - feel like I need another life to get a grasp on all this because there is still so much literature I have on my list.

Years back I remember finding a children's book - wish I got it or at least saved its name - but an elderly woman decided to sell up and move to a country cottage where she could devote all her time to reading and not have to care for guests, house and garden - so up she moves and then, instead of being free to read all her books she ends up with all sorts of animals that not only surround the house but of course get into the attic and the chimney and under the floorboards and so she is as busy as she was in town only now, taking care of wild life instead of cooking, house and garden.

I am so glad to hear that you, Pat and frybabe are still reading - I rushed through and now I can go back and look further into the areas that I did not take time to pursue - fascinated with the idea of the early Christians that were talked about when he was climbing the tower - want to better locate where that tower is located and more about the version of Christianity practiced - sounded to me like they were a part of the group that saw Jesus as man with a Godly shadow so to speak - that view sure gives an explanation for dying as he did on the Cross.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Barb, I got to the paragraphs in Chapter 4 about the Roman settlement near Yongchang. I think that was mentioned  in one of those old video travelogues (don't remember whose) following the Silk Road. Some of it sounds familiar. Mostly I just remember the Celtic family that was dug up and analyzed. The Roman defeat in the battle that Crassus commanded and died at is considered one of the big military blunders in their history. The Teutoberg Forrest massacre tops that list.

I am finding bits and pieces of interest in this book, but it is not as interesting to me as I expected. I can't quite put a finger on the discomfort, but it might be that the author seems a bit depressed by or apprehensive about what he sees today vs what he remembers from his visit 30 years ago. He is expressing a disconnect between the past: ancient, his last visit, and now.

BarbStAubrey

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Frybabe I'm thinking he has captured the disquiet many of us feel regardless where we live - the world has made a shift in the last 30 years - I know here in Austin we have a facebook page, titled something, I remember Austin, and it is filled with the nostalgia for all the place that have disappeared, iconic Austin restaurants, shops, churches, hospitals, even schools that have disappeared in the last 30 years plus, the huge influx of people from outside the state that have substantially changed even our politics so that the town now has reached the tipping point of more from outside the state or area than home grown - reading this I think that is what he is noticing. The new China left this part of China in the dust. As a traveler, looking at monuments to the past and knowing the historical importance of the area it is dismaying to observe.

I can find nothing that further explains these 'bolts' that were successful against the Roman army - it appears whatever they were they must have been on or the actual arrow tip - what kind of material would the Parthia's cavalry have that Rome did not have?

The affect of SAARs on his trip is not hitting me as much as the various captions about the book make it important - maybe because it is now history. Also I think he is noting the affect of the Cultural Revolution had and continues to have as people lost their culture in that purge. Being such a traditionally motivated nation I think his depression is matching the lack of caring he sees all around him. He is still very curious and there seems to be less melancholy once he reaches these northern mountains where there is snow on the ground.

The history of how these places, essentially robbed by westerners of the scrolls and other artifacts feels like a sting just reading about it - have no idea where these scrolls and artifact are today because most of it took place before WWII by men who lived in the very areas of Europe that experienced the worst of the war. So much world history has been destroyed. Early, we read how even the Chinese leaders burnt their past. A poignant conversation he creates with one of the characters in a wall painting and himself that recaps the difference in what we value, what we ultimately wish could happen and what is reality - the other view seems to accept that it makes no difference what is lost, what was, we all die - in other words what and why are we hanging onto anything. 

Interesting perspective since I'm at that stage in life where I have too much and the grands do not want it and my children have everything they want and need and yet, I'm having difficulty letting go.   
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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So far learned that the Nestorians were part of the Assyrian Christians - an Apostolic Catholic Church - in other words started by some of the apostles. Nice brief history including their sojourn east into China... https://www.oikoumene.org/en/member-churches/holy-apostolic-catholic-assyrian-church-of-the-east
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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OK here we go - the history of what happened in a very brief comment at the beginning of this web site -
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Nestorian_Christianity


Missionaries of the Assyrian Church of the East spread Nestorianism throughout Persia and Central and East Asia. "Nestorian" Christianity reached China by 635, and penetrated Mongolia and Korea. Its relics can still be seen in Chinese cities such as Xi'an.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe