Author Topic: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform (Read 102590 times)

pedln · « **Reply #280 on:** September 04, 2009, 10:45:15 AM »

Talking Heads #6

"It occurred to me that nothing is more interesting than opinion when opinion is interesting..."
Herbert Bayard Swope, creator of the Op-Ed page.

A two week forum for opinions on anything in print: magazines, newspaper articles, online: bring your ideas and let's discuss.

Our Sixth Selection is:
Health Care Reform~! Are We on the Fast Track?

7 Ways Health Reform Is Going to Affect You
Newsweek June 10, 2009

Here’s one to read – about how a health care provider that’s trying to do things right became the unwitting source of “death panel myth.” Gunderson Lutheran Hospital in LaCrosse, WS strived for residents to plan ahead and have advance directives. Realizing that doctors often spent more than an hour advising patients about this, and then following up, they contacted members of Congress about a bill that would allow Medicare to pay doctors for these consultations. And then the S H T Fan.

The Unwitting Birthplace of the 'Death Panel' Myth

For some reason, this may be a little slow downloading -- give it a chance

bellemere · « **Reply #281 on:** September 04, 2009, 03:26:03 PM »

Wow, that is amazing! The doctors had such good intentions. I guess it is true that "No good deed goes unpunished." Sarah Palin should be ashamed of herself.
I see where the proposal of Olympia Snow is finally getting some attention. She suggest that non=profit agencies could begin sellin health insurance if the private companies do not come up with policies that are affordable by 95 percent of the peopoe in the area they serve. Affordbility being something like 15 percent of the average income in that area. (I think that is right) Takes a woman, right?
A mandate for everyone to have insurance is necessary if we are going to get the young healthy bpeople under the tent; we need them to balance the old and sick.
Think of it! If there is such a mandate, the private insurance companies get to feast on 45 million new subscribers who have to buy their insurance, at a price they set! With the government subsidizing some of it! What a bonanza!
Would you call this "socialized capitalism?"

mrssherlock · « **Reply #282 on:** September 04, 2009, 04:36:46 PM »

Socialized capitalism? I love it. Hurry up, Bellemere, and copyright it. Sounds like it should be the new buzzword.

Steph · « **Reply #283 on:** September 05, 2009, 09:19:53 AM »

I loved the article.. They had such good intentions.. But somehow this country in the last six months or so has become so polarized that it is scary.. Screaming about the President talking to school children. What is wrong with this picture.. Our county is not going to permit watching. I am ashamed I live here and plan on writing to the paper in protest. Wont do any good, but will make me feel better.

pedln · « **Reply #284 on:** September 05, 2009, 10:32:05 AM »

Here’s another article, an editorial by conservative columnist David Brooks. It’s well thought out – I always like the Shield and Brooks portion of Jim Lehrer’s Friday Newshour. But I’m putting this up because of two links that Brooks put in this column. I have not yet had a chance to read them, but one is David Goldhill’s essay, “How American Health Care Killed My Father,” in the current issue of The Atlantic. The other a report called “Bending the Curve: Effective Steps to Address Long-Term Health Care Spending Growth.” This report was written by a bipartisan group of battle-tested experts and is found on the Brookings Institute website.

David Brooks

pedln · « **Reply #285 on:** September 05, 2009, 10:40:34 AM »

Steph, you are so right about the polarization of this country -- very scary. And I would add mean-spirited, as well. The hoopla over Obama's upcoming talk to school children really angers me. And also scary, the sheep-like-following by so many who are calling on parents to have their children opt out of hearing it.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #286 on:** September 05, 2009, 12:40:36 PM »

Pedln: A very profound thank you for the article by David Brooks. Like you I look forward all week to that portion of the program when Shield and Brooks analyze and comment on the major issues of the week. David Brooks is conservative but he is not an ideologue and he has an easy going manner I much admire. Mark Shield and David Brooks should be required viewing for all the politicos.

nlhome · « **Reply #287 on:** September 05, 2009, 01:21:57 PM »

Imagine telling children that they can't trust their own President to talk to them. What does that say to them about the election process, the leadership of our country, and their respect for others?

kiwilady · « **Reply #288 on:** September 05, 2009, 02:41:56 PM »

I live with Universal Healthcare. Its terrific competition for private insurers. Lots of people use the Universal system with supplementary insurance for immediate elective surgeries. Private insurance here is so reasonable if you wish to take advantage of it.

I have been shocked by the scaremonger emails circulating about the evils of Universal Healthcare.

I have to say because of the propaganda culture and the power of drug and Health industries in the USA IMHO Universal Healthcare will never happen. I truly and sincerely hope I am proved wrong.

Carolyn

Eloise · « **Reply #289 on:** September 05, 2009, 06:28:42 PM »

Carolyn, the US has a huge population, 350 million Americans compared with 30 odd million Canadians and 5 million in New Zealand and I think reaching a concensus on health care in the US is practically impossible.

Compared with Americans, Canadians had 19% more physician visits in 1990. Low-income Canadians averaged 26% more visits; more visits were received by low-income Canadians at every level of health status

Sorry but I lost the source but Google has a lot of information on this.

It's hard to compare the US situation with any other country in the world. I pity the poor and the elderly in the US though and I wouldn't want to move South of the Border for that reason, otherwise our two countries are so connected it's hard to tell one from the other sometimes.

nlhome · « **Reply #290 on:** September 06, 2009, 09:16:29 AM »

Eloise, those numbers are from 19 years ago. Hardly relevant at today's prices, etc. Also, it would be interesting to know how the percentages were arrived at. 19% calculated how? Based on per capita?

Also, what would help, even from that long ago, would be outcomes of those appointments - more or less hospitalizations? More or less infant mortality? Etc. As you say, hard to compare.

The comparisons that come from WHO are more up to date, I believe. The numbers are per capita, meaning costs totaled up and averaged per person in the country.

There is a site on NRP.org that compares various health care systems around the world. That was most interesting to read.

The elderly in the US have Medicare - that's our "government option" and it works well. It's underfunded and it needs to be updated to address fraud and waste, but that can be done easily, compared to redoing the rest of the health care system.

Steph · « **Reply #291 on:** September 06, 2009, 09:34:37 AM »

Our system is not proactive, but reactive and when you dont have insurance, you show up in the emergency room.. Probably the most expensive way to treat small problems. We need basic care in each community.. We need family doctors, not all of these specialists. If even 1/4 of all of those cosmetic plastic surgeons did something else, we would have enough doctors. But they just love the non insurance type stuff. Our system is beyond broken.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #292 on:** September 06, 2009, 09:47:05 AM »

Steph: How true. Yet it is being defended so vehemently that one wonders where are America's brains? I was considering retiring to Canada because I love the Victoria area and the health care was a big plus. But my retirement fund lost 1/3 of its value in the dot.com bust and I moved to Oregon instead.

bellemere · « **Reply #293 on:** September 06, 2009, 01:00:23 PM »

When my son was in high school, all the boys were herded into the auditorium to listen to recruiting speeches by all three branches of the armed forces. They even took quickie 'aptitude" test; a lot were told they seemed to have a talent for electonics. Parents only heard about this session after the fact. This was during the Viet Nam war.
President Obama is a living example of the benefit of staying in school and studying. Yes, he probably got breaks getting into some great schools, by he had to work to stay in. And Presidents Ronald Reagan and George Bush also thought it important to encourage students.
Yes, I am troubled too by the mean spirited atmosphere of the debate ABOUT HEALTH CARE. I call it "Drawbridge mentality" I've got mine; I don't care about anything else.

bellemere · « **Reply #294 on:** September 06, 2009, 01:14:06 PM »

David Brooks and Mark Shields are great. The Lehrer News is my news source; I look forward to it every night, even when David and Mark are not on. I also enjoy their sometime subs, Rick Lowry and Ruth Marcus. Yes, sometimes they beat a subject to death, and I yawn, but never do they distort or misinform. They are truly jounalists, not entertainers.
Margaret Warner and Gwen Ifil are fearless in asking tough questions of their interview subjects. Thank heaven for PBs news

Eloise · « **Reply #295 on:** September 06, 2009, 02:04:48 PM »

Bellemere, during the past year I had 6 Specialists visits 4 of them because of a bad fall last winter, one visit to my GP two or three visits to a Walk-In clinic for a minor problems. I was seen within the hour and I never had to pay a cent, never filled a form and most physicians took the time that was needed without rushing.

No, our system is not perfect, we are going broke, we loose too many doctors who move South of the Border, but I never heard of Canadians going broke because of health issues. The poor and immigrants are just as well taken care of as the rich.

Seniors especially benefit from our health care system. We pay a franchise every month for our medicine but my pharmacy bill comes to about $600 a year, that's all. In Switzerland where my son lives, they pay $600 a month just for insurance, but the poor don't pay for health care.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #296 on:** September 06, 2009, 06:19:53 PM »

I heard a snippet on NPR today: Every second someone in America goes bankrupt because of medical bills. It can't be true, However this report from the Washington Post is frightening enough: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/health-care-reform/2009/06/new_study_shows_medical_bills.html

Steph · « **Reply #297 on:** September 07, 2009, 08:36:42 AM »

Jackie, Medical Bankrupcy is rising each day.. It is by far the commonest way people go bankrupt.. Our medical systems ( especially hospitals) have a lot to answer for.. If you are homeless and go through emergency rooms, they dont even try to collect, but if you have anything,, even the smallest house or a low paying job, they come after you with all teeth bristling. Sad.. and the word non profit is sort of weird when applied to health care.

bellemere · « **Reply #298 on:** September 10, 2009, 03:29:52 PM »

I followed the speech to the joint houses of Congress with great interest. The President came out swinging. His explanations were lucid, and the urgency in his tone was compelling. I was apalled by the Congressman who yelled "You lie!" as the President was speakingl Never heard anything like that in my life. And the remark recognizing that some members see political capital to be gained by defeating this effort instead of improving it was right on target.
There is a small contingent of conservative congresspeople that are beginning to act in an almost deranged manner. Very worrisome, they do hold positions of responsibility and represent a lot of Americans. I understnand the above gentleman was from South Carolina. What must the people think of his behaviour? And shouldn't he get a censure of some kind from his peers in Congress?
And ex-governor Palin continues to peddle her Death Panel threat , this time in the Wall St. Journal.. Why would they give her a platform?

mrssherlock · « **Reply #299 on:** September 10, 2009, 08:30:23 PM »

Did anyone post this about the "death panel" rumors? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/health/policy/14panel.html
I think it says much about the psychology of people who can't find any reason to try to arbitrate differences. There are many on the right who's attitude seems to be "My way or no way" and i find that similar to Al Quaidda's supposed agenda. Seems as if we are in a fight to the death over the future, whether it should be forward or whether it should return to the past. Why is this kind of thinking so often aligned with religious fundamentalism? Other examples are the Amish and the Hassids. The kind of thinking that sees each contest has only two outcomes, winning or losing.

bellemere · « **Reply #300 on:** September 10, 2009, 11:22:24 PM »

Yes, sad that so much of this stuff has a religious tinge, although surely only an extremist wing of religions. But I speak as an agnostic; when was the last time you heard of a band of agnostics hijacking a plane or murdering a doctor on orders from God? We are probably the most peaceful of all minorities!
Let us hope the cooler heads prevail msherlock. There actualy even tougher questions ahead for the country, namely, Afghanistan and the Israel-Palestine struggle.
If we cant accomplish health care for all our people, what are we going to do to solve those questions?

Babi · « **Reply #301 on:** September 11, 2009, 08:24:38 AM »

He did get a censure from many of his peers, Belle. His own party
leaders insisted he apologize, which he did. In the news coverage of that
major blunder, the Senator from South Carolina looks well aware that he
he in deep trouble and may have self-destructed as far as his career goes.
Good question...why would the Wall St. Journal give space to Palin's
opportunistic bandwagon?

JACKIE, how on earth did the Amish get into this? They have never
insisted on pushing their ways onto others; they just insist on their
right to live their own lives as they choose. No 'fight to the death'
there. And please, BELLE, people who commit murder 'on orders from God'
are psychotic. You can't brand a whole belief system on the actions of
a brain sick member. Psychotics have also been found among atheists and
agnostics. I do hope we're not going to drag religion into this.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #302 on:** September 11, 2009, 08:54:23 AM »

Babi: If I've wronged the Amish, I apologize to the entire community. What I was expressing was the universality of the attempt to turn back the clock based on a religious foundation. The Hassids are not threatening death to the unbelievers, either, although the situation in Israel seems complicated by their insistence that they are living as God demands. Psychopaths have "answered the call" and are ready recruits I'm sure but the policy wonks are the ones who are pulling the strings and I refuse to believe that it is piety that spurs them on.

ANNIE · « **Reply #303 on:** September 11, 2009, 08:55:31 AM »

Sensible comments, Babi! My feelings exactly.

bellemere · « **Reply #304 on:** September 11, 2009, 11:56:52 AM »

Yes, religion should not be brought into a discussion unless it is the stated topic. I wanted to say that agnostics cannot use God as their excuse for their deeds. they have to find something else: historical imperative: Josef Stalin; intrusion of government, Timothy Mc Veigh; general misanthropy, the Unibomber. But today is the anniversary of a horrific deed by men who, according to all we can find out about their motivation, truly believed in a god, and that their actions would be pleasing to him, and would earn them eteeternal life. And the hundreds of suicide bombers in Iraq and Afthanistan and London and Bali and Palestine and Israie - they are not described as psychotics. ;Until they commited their suicide bombings, they were teachers, students, doctors, housewives, merchants. How can we ever come to terms with religious extremism of this sort? We simply cannot blame it on mental illness; they were not insane. It is a mystery to us. And one more reason why religious extrmism of any sort is to be feared by us all.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #305 on:** September 11, 2009, 01:41:20 PM »

These comments have helped me refine my thoughts on this subject. Please do not condemn me for fuzzy thinking.

Dana · « **Reply #306 on:** September 11, 2009, 11:03:36 PM »

Haven't been here for a while, just spent some time catching up! Love Sheilds and Brooks, Jim Lehner news hour and NPR also. Now live in S. Carolina and horrified by the support for Congressman Wilson described by our local paper--apparently most of the calls to his office to-day were in favour of his outburst!!
I am beginning to think that our President is too timid to take stands on issues --he wants consensus and for everyone to agree. Won't happen.
I do think also that religious fanatics are responsible for much of the trouble in the world. It also seems to be quite easy to convert someone into a religious fanatic. Until the London underground bombings I had thought that suicide bombers must come from a deprived and hopeless background. Why else would they want to kill themselves? Wrong.....these guys that blew up the subway came from comfortable backgrounds in Britain, one even was teacher of the year or citizen of the year or some such in his Yorkshire community! It boggles the mind--they were so easily brainwashed. But when you think about it, I guess we are all so easily brainwashed it's scarey......look at the Germans in Naziland ....

bellemere · « **Reply #307 on:** September 12, 2009, 08:51:44 AM »

Yes, it appears that the health care reforms can win if the final bill is attached to a budget reconciliation bill, which cannot be filibustered and which only requires a somple majority, I think 51 votes.
Move On.org , an organization that understands hardball, is raising enormous sums of money for Congressman Wilson's opponent, over $800,000 in just 48 hours.

Babi · « **Reply #308 on:** September 12, 2009, 09:28:41 AM »

Quote

"..the policy wonks are the ones who are pulling the strings and I refuse to believe that it is piety that spurs them on."

Unfortunately, this is all too true, BELLE. Whether it is political leaders
looking for a cover for their agenda, or people looking for a 'cause' to excuse
their crossing of moral and ethical barriers. Anything, religion or patriotism or
any other high-sounding theme, will serve to allow them to turn their backs
on humane compassion.

Steph · « **Reply #309 on:** September 12, 2009, 10:01:16 AM »

A young friend of ours who was career navy got through to the congressmans web site before it crashed. He was furious that a career military would be that rude to the President, who was in fact his commander in chief. Interesting reaction and not one that I would have thought of.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #310 on:** September 12, 2009, 10:55:04 AM »

Quote

But today is the anniversary of a horrific deed by men who, according to all we can find out about their motivation, truly believed in a god, and that their actions would be pleasing to him, and would earn them eteeternal life.

Painful but true. Since these perps are acting in "good" faith one must look to the source of their beliefs. It is the cynical leaders who manipulate them for their own ends, power, power, power. If women ran the world, what would it be like?

ANNIE · « **Reply #311 on:** September 12, 2009, 12:03:39 PM »

Probably just the same, Jackie!

mrssherlock · « **Reply #312 on:** September 12, 2009, 04:16:28 PM »

I don't believe that!

bellemere · « **Reply #313 on:** September 12, 2009, 07:02:41 PM »

So what's the consensus here on using parliamentary maneuvers to get the bill passed? is it unfair ? Or just realistic. Should the proponents keep working for consensus ? Or face the fact that the opponents see political capital to be made by defeating the President? What would you do if it were your call?

Babi · « **Reply #314 on:** September 13, 2009, 09:59:53 AM »

It has often been said, in one way or another, that the female of every species
tends to be the more practical and pragmatic gender. Which, IMO, generally means they tend to look instinctively to the protection and survival of the species, and to h___ with any fine ideals that tend to kill us off.

mrssherlock · « **Reply #315 on:** September 13, 2009, 10:06:00 AM »

Hear! Hear!

mrssherlock · « **Reply #316 on:** September 13, 2009, 10:09:43 AM »

bellemere: Seems as if the opponents are so deeply entrenched that there is little room for compromise and the best plan, if adoption of a health care reform bill is the object, is to plow straight ahead.

bellemere · « **Reply #317 on:** September 13, 2009, 12:49:36 PM »

Sadly, I think you are right. so on behalf of the millions in need whose voices are not heard in all this screaming lunacy, I think they should use every legal means to get it passed.
Maureen Dowd in today's Times says there was one word missiing from Congressman Wilson's "You lie..........boy"
Incidentally, I belong to a Medicare Advantage plan. I have always been satisfied, but since the President talks about these plans as "waste" I have been lookin at it differently. We get "discount memberships " at some sports clubs; I always prefer to support my community YMCA. We get our Weight Watchers dues refunded if we complete a program, whether we lose weight or not. Nice incentive for some, but a good walk migh be just as effective. We get a pair of glasses for about 60 dollars every year, whether our prescription changes or not. A great boon for some , like a certain husband , who loses glasses, but not strictly necessary. My doctors accept all insurance, so I wont lose them. I can change.
So what about the reconsiliation route? Good or bad?

Steph · « **Reply #318 on:** September 13, 2009, 12:54:03 PM »

I wish he could get bipartisan support, but that is not going to happen. We have become a nation of anger.. I dont understand why at all.

bellemere · « **Reply #319 on:** September 13, 2009, 02:48:33 PM »

As I said, the "drawbridge' mentality: I've got mine; if you don't have yours that's not my problem.
And if it passes withoug apublic option, the insurance companies are going to be rolling in money.
And if all the comfortable Medicare enrollees are confident that the statis quo will preserve their Medicare, I wouldn't bet on it.
Would love to see the govt. junk the manned space program, the Afghan was, the tobacco subsidies, the tax breaks for the oil companies, and pay for the health care reforms.

News:

Author Topic: Talking Heads - Healthcare Reform (Read 102590 times)