Non-Fiction

[roshanarose]

TO NONFICTION BOOK TALK

What are you reading?  Autobiographies, biographies, history, politics?

Tell us about the book; the good and the bad of it. 

Let's talk books!

Discussion Leader: HaroldArnold

GumI did find a link for Hans Heysen.  Gorgeous watercolours.  Ghost gums as well.

http://www.artgallery.sa.gov.au/agsa/home/Learning/docs/Online_Resources/Heysen_Trail.pdf

[maryz]

I'm watching Nigel Hamilton on BookTV talking about his latest book, American Caesars, about the 12 presidents since WW2 (Roosevelt through W).  I've just put it on reserve at our library.  Sounds fascinating

[Gumtree]

Thanks JoanK for the Namatjira image - He was an iconic indigenous painter working in the European way and his work is unmistakable.

Roshanarose: Thanks - I found that Heysen link but it wouldn't load properly - my computer problem I think. - hasn't got the image I wanted either - there's one of Heysen's everyone uses or copies for postcards showing ghost gums in all their glory.

[roshanarose]

Maryz - I think that I will add that one to my TBR.

[Babi]

Ooh, the jacaranda is gorgeous! They resemble our crepe myrtles, but more vivid in color.  And the trees in Namatjira's painting are so beautiful. No wonder we love trees!
 Lavender is one of the crepe myrtle colors, JEAN, and I'm sure you must have some in Fla. The
blossoms are almost identical to the jacaranda.  (I wonder if it is the same tree?)

[Gumtree]

Babi - I'm following you around tonight... I have a crepe myrtle and three jacarandas in my yard - the flowers are similar but far from being the same. They are two distinct genus - jacaranda mimosifolia is the blue flowered one which does so well here but being blue flowered it originally hails from South America. The crepe myrtle - lagerstoemia is from Asia and also does well here.

[Ella Gibbons]

ROSE, beautiful watercolors!  I think I could just pick up one of those onions, peel it and slice it.  And the gum trees.  I remember years ago in college I signed up for an art class and the instructor sat us down by a stream and said paint the water and no one, NO ONE, use green or blue.  I laugh now when I think of all our glances at each other. 

And another little art story I have - don't we all?  I met an artist who had finished advanced classes and she told me one should not admire paintings that have detail (as from a camera).  It should be representational - abstract. 

I like them all.  But on Heysen's wife's portrait I can't imagine that  her hair is coming down on her face like that.  Does she have a hat on???

[Frybabe]

Wonderful watercolors. I am more fond of watercolors than oils. The Spring, 1925 and the Bronzewings and Saplings, 1921 are my favorites.

[roshanarose]

Ella - It looks like some sort of turban or scarf on Heysen's wife's head.

Never have onions looked so good.  Getting the shine on the onions is not easy to paint: light and shade and form - ah harking back to art classes.

[Gumtree]

Yes, painting is all about the light...

and as Ella says representational and abstract art should be representational and abstract but they are just styles - there are many accomplished artists who strive for and achieve a photo-realism and whose work is highly valued and sought after - it is simply their style

[roshanarose]

Gum and Ella - I have a problem in explaining why I like certain pieces of art and not others.  It comes down to those two words for me "I like".  What draws one to a particular piece of  art is entirely subjective, imho.  I know that probably sounds like a cop-out.  I have no problem explaining why I like some art, but the first time I saw Jackson Pollock's "Blue Poles" i was enchanted, but when I saw a Rothko for the first time I felt nothing.  I love Picasso, especially his Blue Period and his cubism, but Matisse does nothing for me.  And so on.  If I went to a ritzy gallery and saw "representational and abstract" works, I would probably love some, but not necessarily what some people regarded as the "masterpiece".  As you say, Gum, it is just a style.  Terms like representational and abstract may turn away potential art lovers, because they feel that they must see those pieces of art in that light.  Is it something like the story of "The Emperor's New Clothes", or is there something that draws the majority to the masterpiece?  I have spent quite some time pondering this question, as it applies to so many other aspects of life, e.g. poetry, books, colours, art, wine, even men, but as yet only come up with the answer - the appreciation of these things is, and must be, subjective, otherwise we would live in a world where there was only one artist; only one brand of wine; only one poet; only one writer.  Tell me what you think?

[Babi]

Thanks for the info, GUM. Both trees are so lovely. If crepe myrtle grows well
there, I wonder if jacaranda would grow well here?  Seems reasonable.
  Now that I think of it, ELLA, I don't think I've ever seen a green or blue
stream. Most of them in my part of the country tend to be shades of brown,
and I was just looking at a picture of a small waterfall that was all white and
gray.
  ROSE, God himself obviously loves variety!  I believe in following his example. 

[Gumtree]

Roshanarose I think we're way off topic here and hope everyone will indulge us.

I can't possibly answer your questions but only add my own thoughts -
I think you answered your own question by saying the appreciation of art (in any form) is subjective. The more one knows about any subject the more appreciative and discerning one becomes - think of wine lovers... they train their palate - in the same way art lovers train their mind to appreciate the myriad ways of describing the world through the chosen medium - and the more one learns the more there is still to learn. But having said that I think anyone can enjoy art. The 'I Like' test is tried and true. I think the thing that draws the majority to a masterpiece (painting, music, writing,  whatever) is the natural attraction of the creative genius.  

Babi I've not seen blue or green water either - the colours they appear to be are simply reflections of the sky, clouds, vegetation and sometimes discolouration due to mud, minerals, etc. When I began to paint my teacher banned the use of green for anything - we had to paint green leaves or anything else green by using other colours that when combined the viewers' eye would mix and read as green. Good exercise.

[roshanarose]

Thanks Gum and Babi for your thoughts. 

[Babi]

 You had my eyebrows up for a second there, GUM, when you said the teacher
forbade the use of green. Green is probably the most common color on earth.
But I agree it would be a great exercise to use a mixture of colors to get
different shades of green. After all, there are so many shades! I can look
out the window and find six shades of green w/o half trying.
  My relationship with art is entirely one of enjoyment. I have no artistic
talent whatsoever.

[ANNIE]

JoanK,
When we lived in Torrance, CA, where you are located, there was a whole subdivision off of PCH which was completely planted by the sidewalks with Jacarandas.  When you drove through, you were in a tunnel of those blue blooms.  Gorgeous!
This subdivision was featured on TV once when we lived there for their Christmas decorations.  The whole place was covered over with many decorations, much music and the Jacaranda's, which had been allowed to grow across the streets until they touched, had those tiny little lights in them.  It was a magical place to visit.  My grandkids, from NY, loved going there to see it.  You had to get in line out on PCH and wait to drive through.  We truly enjoyed the decor!
In Texas, where we lived in Austen, people grew Poinsiettias in large pots on their front porches and they were always in bloom at Christmas.

I am really enjoying the pictures and links that you all have put here.  What a pleasure!

I looked up the tree books, PatH, and found reasonable prices for them on Amazon.  Used but in fine condition.  I wonder if those count towards Seniorlearn's points or one has to order a new book for those?

[JoanK]

Annie: I'll bet I know the place. I've been there to see the Christmas decorations, but not when the trees were in bloom, so I didn't realize what they were.

[Frybabe]

The bunch over on Seniors and Friends have been talking about Michael Shumacher's, Mighty Fitz: The Sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Has anyone here read it? It sounds interesting.

I was surprised (even though I saw a TV program several years ago) that it  happened in 1975. I thought it had happened much earlier. I had never heard of the disaster before Gorden Lightfoot's song came out in 1976. So, instead of being a folk song about a long ago event, his song was actually a timely memorial to the crew and ship.

[ANNIE]

JoanK
When do the Jacaranda trees bloom in southern CA???  I can't remember but if they are out in Australia now, Torrance's must be 4-6mos after that??  Is that right?

Frybabe,
I was unaware of the Fitzgerald's sinking that short time ago.  Always thought it was nearer WWII.  Or even WWI.  Well, must get back up on my history!

[Ella Gibbons]

The ship and its sinking rang a bell in this aging brain of mine - yeah, it still works!  Some years ago, my husband and I decided to travel up into the UP, (Upper Penisula in Michigan) never having been there.  It always sounded rather romantic to me for some reason???

On our way up we stopped in many little towns and went to a few little museums and in one there was the records and models of all the ships who have sunk in the Great Lakes.  And one of them was the Edmund Fitzgerald.  There is one place that is very dangerous to ships when they have to round a curve (here I get fuzzy) and if there is a storm then.....

[Jonathan]

Ella, I'm the same age as you, so I know exactly what you are saying about the bells set ringing by awakened memories. What a merry part of growing old. One bell starts another ringing, until remembering turns into a carillon.

Now then, can you remember the town in Upper Michigan with the maritime museum. I would like to see that. I haven't been that way in a long, long time. It used to make a nice short cut driving from eastern to western Canada. Upper Michigan seemed like wilderness enough. North of Superior took one right out of this world. We had prisoner-of-war camps up there during WWII.

A few years ago I met, at a roadside park in upstate NY, a young German lad who had just spent the night in his little tent and was getting ready to resume his travels on his bicycle. He had arrived in NYC, and was now on his way to find the camp, north of Superior, where his grandfather had spent several years as a prisoner. He seemed very grateful for the map of Ontario which I offered him. I've always wondered if he came out of that wilderness alive. He must have had a fine story to tell.

The sinking of the EF was in the news again a short while ago, with a new theory about the cause of the disaster.

[HaroldArnold]

If my memory is still sound I remember the recording of the "Edmund Fitzgerald" was unusually long.  Its  playing time ran longer that 10 minutes.  Was it 11 minutes or was it 14?  Both  come to mind.  In any case it was a favorite of DJ's as an opportunity for a bathroom break or even a quick snack chance.

[Ella Gibbons]

Goodness, what memories!  Wonderful!

Harold, I didn't understand until I read this:

"On November 10, 1975, while traveling on Lake Superior during a gale, the Fitzgerald sank suddenly in Canadian waters approximately 17 miles (15 nmi; 27 km) from the entrance of Whitefish Bay at a depth of 530 feet (160 m). Although it had reported having some difficulties before the accident, the Fitzgerald sank without sending any distress signals. Its crew of 29 perished in the sinking with no bodies being recovered. When the wreck was found, it was discovered that the Fitzgerald had broken in two.

The sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald is the most famous disaster in the history of Great Lakes shipping. The disaster was the subject of Gordon Lightfoot's 1976 hit song, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald

Jonathan, the bells on the UP stopped ringing in my head.  I don't remember the town, just fragments of the trip.  One - I talked to a waitress in one little cafe who told me there were only 4 students in her senior year of high school!  Imagine!  Another fragment.  We drove and drove, and more, in the UP, beautiful country, but it was getting dark, no motels, no lights, all woods, what to do?  We didn't plan the trip very well.  We finally arrived late at a place (a motel?  all I remember was it had beds and lively people drinking).  We took a tour of an iron mine, I think it was.  It was like something from outer space - big shovels had made inroads in a huge mountainside, round and round, crater like.  We had to put on helmets and walked through a dark plant which was very noisy.  We were given a sample of the little iron pellets which were the end product of the mine.



Aren't you sorry you asked me about that trip, Jonathan?

[Ella Gibbons]

An now back to the book.  I have it on hold at my library. 

[Jonathan]

Thanks, Ella, for the informative link to the Fitzgerald ship disaster. There are three museums mentioned. Could the one you visited be the Great Lakes Ship Museum at Whitefish Point, near Paradise, Michigan? I'm going to look for it when I'm down that way.

...beautiful country, but it was getting dark, no motels, no lights, all woods, what to do?

You put it so well. I remember the darkness, once, driving late at night, just staying in the tunnel of light that my headlights carved out of the black woods. Mesmerised by the flashing railway crossing light at what seemed like miles away. Until my headlights picked up the slowly moving freight cars crossing the roadway in front of me. I hit the breaks and managed to stop in time. Just barely.

I have picked up an interesting-looking book. Dixie & The Dominion,with the subtitle Canada, the Confederacy, and the War for the Union. By, Adam Mayers.

It's more than coincidence that the Dominion of Canada was formed in 1867, just two years after your Civil War ended. It must have seemed a serious threat thinking of a powerful, victorious North, with expansionist notions. And then the northern British colonies had been used as a base for Confederate commando incursions into the northern states during the later years of the war.

Does anyone know of a good history of the 1812-14 war? Its 200th anniversary is coming up. That war had all kinds of political ramifications on both sides of the border. Haven't we been good neighbors since.

[Ella Gibbons]

JONATHAN, Paradise, MIchigan.  That rings a bell, yes, that might be the place.  I remember smiling at the town - the village - that called itself Paradise.  How blatant!  How arrogant!  How ridiculous, indeed! 

A few hundred permanent residents - even today!!   -   http://www.paradisemichigan.org/

I have often wondered, Jonathan, how it is, how it was, that Canada was not caught up in the revolution that the lower colonies exhibited toward Great Britain.  Why were the Canadians so loyal?  Were they not taxed like the colonists to the south of them?  I remember we (the American revolutionaries) attempted to catch you up - Aaron Burr tried to capture Quebec, if memory serves!

Yes, we've been wonderful neighbors!  How fortunate we both are, let's have a toast!  Hip, Hip Hooray.

Your book sounds very good.  Tell us more!

[Babi]

 I don't know, ELLA.  That little town sounds like a lovely vacation spot to me.  I could see where the local residents might feel they had found themselves a small paradise.

[ANNIE]

So are there two Paradises in Michigan??  We spent a week on Paradise Lake when our children were younger.  Loved it there.  Once when we visited further north, Petoskey, we came home via Lake Huron and it was very sparsely populated.  We stayed in a family motel while driving across the state and it was the only one for miles around. The woods along with the lake on our left was just gorgeous.   I have always wanted to return.  Is the peninsula still that way? Sounds like a tempting destination for exploring.
We visited Castle Farms in Charlevoix, which was  built back in 1918. 

http://www.castlefarms.com/about-us/history/

There were pieces of sunken ships on display that had been taken from Lake Michigan and restored.  Beautifully done.  The castle belonged to the Loeb family who were connected to Sears and Roebuck.  It was my understanding that the castle was abandoned when a Loeb son was involved in a murder in Chicago.  The father spent millions of dollars defending his son, even hired Clarence Darrow to take the case.  http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/sep2001/loeb-s08.shtml

[Ella Gibbons]

THE LEOPOLD AND LOEB CASE.  Have you never read the books about this famous case, ANN?  

YEs, BABI, I agree, but they should have hid themselves, hid their natural beauty, their assets, from the public rather than proclaim it to the world.  Fortunately, though, the public hasn't populated the area; no doubt, it is isolated, very cold, a winter wonderland and no industry around for jobs. 

[ANNIE]

I have known about the Loeb-Leopold case for ages.  As soon as my mom heard that we were in the formerly owned Loeb Castle, she told us all about the murder.  Then, sometime since then, one of the men was released from prison and he had been trained as a medical person.  It was my understanding that he moved to South America/Brazil to serve the poor.

[Babi]

But Ella, if they have no industry for jobs, isn't tourism their best, if not only,
means of serious income?  Without it, they might not be able to stay in their
'wonderland'.   Only the seriously wealthy can afford to occupy beautiful countryside
and shut others out of their precious enclave.

[Ella Gibbons]

Probably, yes, BABI.  Tourism, particularly in winter, wouldn't you say?  Well, any season actually.

[serenesheila]

There is small town, in Northern California, called Paradise.  I have spent some time, there.  It is located in the Sierra foothills.

I've watched the CSpan 2 books show, the past two weekends.  I recorded a couple of programs.  One was with Nigel Hamilton.  He has written a book called "American Ceasars".  It is about 12 American Presidents, from FDR, to George W. Bush.  It sounded interesting, so I ordered it for my Kindle.

The other week featured Mark Feldstein, who wrote "Poisoning The Press", Richard Nixon and Jack Anderson.  It is now on my Kindle.  I remember both of them.  I will never forget the year that RN ran for Congress, the first time.  On election day we found a pink paper on our front porch.  It warned us that his opponent, Helen Gauhagen Douglas was a communist.  It was too late for her to deny the charge, and she lost to him.

So, I have some good reading ahead.  I look forward to learning some new information about a lot of people.

[roshanarose]

Once upon a time there was a happy holiday town on the shores of the Pacific Ocean just south of Brisbane, Queensland.  The holidaymakers, female, were fond of wearing gingham bikinis and sporting dark brown tans; the males would wear board shorts adorned with hibiscus, white rubber thongs, and drive woodies with mallies on the top rack, all in slavish imitation of Gidget.  The holidaymakers would often stay in Guest Houses on the beach with names like "Stella Maris" and "Ocean Pebbles".  It was an unspoilt Paradise, except for the holidaymakers, that is.  In their wisdom the Councillors of the time called this place Surfers' Paradise.

Fast forward about 45 years.  In Surfers' Paradise one can't find a park to save oneself.  The odd surfer may be found on his/her small board.  Drug deals take place on the streets and murder is not infrequent.  This week is "schoolies week" at Surfers' Paradise.  Kids from all over Queensland converge on the town as this is "muck up" week, and the kids who have their first taste of independence, sans parents, take over the streets.  Schoolies week is the culmination of 12 years of school and the end of school exams for the Year 12s.  Japanese tourists, for whom Surfers' is Mecca, avoid the place at all costs during Schoolies Week.  The rest of the year they can find their way around easily because the street signs are written in Japanese as well as English.  Young Japanese peddle wares from their shops on the footpath.  They only target fellow Japanese.  Australians are oddly out of place in what was once the most Australian of surfing towns.  I am not taking sideswipe at the Japanese; the truth is that the average Australian holidaymakers, children of the woodie drivers and the gingham bikinis wearers can no long afford to visit Surfers'. Their holiday destinations of choice are frequently offshore, e.g. Fiji, Bali, Samoa.  Places which rather ironically are cheaper to visit than the popular Australian holiday spots. The Gucci, Dior and Louis Vuitton shops in Surfers' are devoted only to duty free shoppers.

http://www.surfersparadise.com/ 

Sometimes I visit.  Once I used to stay in one of those guest houses, now the Versace Plaza is slightly out of my price range and I wouldn't feel comfortable there anyway.  When I do get a park in Surfer's I love looking at the Bally shop devoted to duty free shoppers only.  I feel uncomfortable in the Bally shop too.  Is this Paradise?  Only the name is the same - Surfers' Paradise.

[ANNIE]

Roshanarose,
What a sad story concerning Surfer's Paradise.  But here in the states we have the same type of things happening.  Our eastern graduates and their siblings haul themselves down to Florida beaches on the Gulf and on the Atlanta and the noise and drinking are overwhelming.  Youngsters who have no idea why they are there,  just following along with the rest of the sheep.  Pretty sad!
I think this type of celebrating goes on in all countries.  Ours is named "Spring Break", not very original but means the same thing at "Schoolies".

Sereneshiela,
The books that you mentioned from CSPAN sound good.  I believe Ella has read and mentioned the one about the presidents, "American Caesars" and liked it.

[Jonathan]

This is wonderful. Paradise here and now. In Michigan, California, and down there on the beautiful Pacific shore in Australia. Should I cancel an earlier reservation for the paradise in the sweet bye-and bye? Woe is me. By putting it off, will I find it trashed when I get there? Like surferparadise.

Maybe I'l just get away to some of the interesting places I can find in my neighboring state, New York. I can easily get to Rome and Rotterdam. Amsterdam and Athens. Troy or Ninevah and Naples. Versailles and Vienna. Babylon and Barcelona. Damascus and Dresden. And on and on.

But what's this? Sodom, NY? Should I take a chance?

[maryz]

Go for it, Jonathan! 

[HaroldArnold]

In Post 1455 above Ella asked the following:  I have often wondered, Jonathan, how it is, how it was, that Canada was not caught up in the revolution that the lower colonies exhibited toward Great Britain.  Why were the Canadians so loyal?  Were they not taxed like the colonists to the south of them?  I remember we (the American revolutionaries) attempted to catch you up - Aaron Burr tried to capture Quebec, if memory serves!

This is an interesting question and in the absence of further comment I will offer the following.  First when the American Revolution began in 1775 and 76 English population of Canada must have been quite low.  The previous settlers were French and I suspect that during the American Revolution years the English in Canada were mostly English Military and their dependents, people inclined to be most loyal..  Also remember that when they evacuated Boston in 1776 they took several thousand “Boston Tories to a new life in coastal Canada.  After the war other American Tories also relocated.  

The successful end of the American Revolution was quickly followed by the French Revolution and the Napoleonic wars.  These events led to increased English Nationalism and loyalty both in the British isles and colonies..  They also set off the beginning of immigration of war veterans with generous grants of Canadian land to veterans particularly Waterloo Veterans.  I think this early migration were the most loyal people  hardly  interested in following their cousins in the U.S. l

[Ella Gibbons]

Thanks, HAROLD, yes, I do remember, French Canadians.  Of course, Quebec.  One forgets history at times.

Those British colonists in the 17th and 18th century would have profited better had they sailed northward.

Sodom and Paradise, is there a Gomorroh?  Methinks it would be better to rename those cities!  And there are gingham bikinis! What horrors!

[roshanarose]

Ella - There were gingham bikinis in the late 50s and early 60s in Australia.  I had a chartreuse gingham bikini, great for showing off the tan that so many of us craved.  Gingham was very popular 'cos Bardot used to wear bikinis and dresses made of gingham.  She was our idol.  Melanoma wasn't even invented then :-)  Shocks me now.  I did have develop melanoma on my forehead at age 28. It can kill, but mine was operated on early and the bony skull stopped the cancer spreading too easily, but the scar is horrible.

Jonathan - Sodom, NY sounds a bit risky (or should that be "risque").  Now if there was a Sodom in Salem that would make good copy.

AdoAnnie - I was almost certain that the US would have their own version of Schoolies.  That's probably the inspiration for Schoolies.