Author Topic: Last Dickens, The ~ Matthew Pearl ~ October Book Club Online (Read 68105 times)

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #280 on:** October 19, 2009, 10:21:27 AM »

The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome to join in.

Click register at the top of the page to create a username and password so that you can post messages in the discussions here on SeniorLearn.

Welcome! Everyone is invited!

We are happy to announce that the author, Matthew Pearl, is joining us in the discussion of his latest novel, "The Last Dickens," as he did with his "Poe Story" and "The Dante Club.

Matthew's literary fiction picks up where Dickens left off in "The Mystery of Edwin Drood." The story of the fate of Edwin Drood is a mystery within a mystery. When young Edwin disappears after dinner on Christmas Eve and his watch and chain are later found in the nearby river, everyone suspects foul play. Could one of Edwin’s acquaintances have murdered him – and, if so, what could their motive be? Tragically, the mystery is destined never to be truly solved, as Dickens died before he could finish this novel – all that is left are the clues that can be found in the completed chapters.

Pearl sends a partner of Dickens’ American publisher, James Osgood, to the Dickens' estate in England where we meet the "fugitives" from the characters of Dickens' novel. Is Edwin Drood dead or alive? Was he killed by his uncle, John Jasper? Or did he somehow escape that fate, possibly to return later? We are anticipating more intrigue as Pearl's fictional characters search for answers in the author's well-researched fiction.

Chapter discussion schedule

October 1-6: First Installment ~ Chapters 1-10 ~ June, 1870
October 7-10: Second Installment ~ Chapters 11-17 ~ November, 1867
October 11-13: : Third Installment ~ Chapters 18-22 ~ June, 1870
October 15-17: Fourth Installment ~ Chapters 23-26
*October 18-23: Fifth Installment ~ Chapters 27-29
Oct. 24-28: Fifth Installment cont. - Chapters 30 - 39
October 29-31: Sixth Installment ~ Chapter 40/Historical note

Discussion Leaders: JoanP, Andy

Dickens' Gadshill estate, Kent

Some topics for discussion Oct. 18-23: Chapters 27-29 ~ Kent, London ~ July. 1870

1. What had happened to James Osgood that night in Sally's opium den? Why was he taken to jail? Do you have any reason not to trust the respected Marcus Wakefield - other than the way he looks at Rebecca?

2. Given Dickens habit of using actual names and characters in his novels, is it far-fetched that he would include his neighbors in Kent and Rochester as he wrote his last novel?

3. How does the relationship between Eddie Trood and his uncle Nathan resemble or differ Edwin Drood and Jasper John? Why do you think Dickens would portray the relationship one way and Matthew another?

4. Why would do you think Dickens' last words would be to call for Forster, Georgy, one of his daughters - or Ellen Ternan?

5. When you consider Dickens' interest in the George Hartman murder case and the incriminating forensic evidence when in America, do you think Dickens could have intended to reopen a real murder case in this novel?

6. Had Dickens actually hypnotized Datchery? Why did Osgood decide to give him another chance, even after Tom Branagan revealed his disguise?

7. Why does Datchery/Rogers believe that Osgood is in danger?

8. Does Yahee's revelation of Herman's childhood experience explain his cold-blooded behavior now? How would Dickens have veiwed this character? Why would Herman be following Osgood?

9. Do you think Dickens may have planned his Mystery of Edwin Drood backwards, with the second half in mind as he wrote the first six episodes? If he had actually written the second half first, where is it? Did he leave a clue with someone?

10. Why does the note that Forster received from Christie's Auction House cause Osgood to start packing to go home?

Readers' Guide Questions from FIRST - FOURTH INSTALLMENTS

Related Links : SeniorLearn's Q & A with Author, Matthew Pearl; 19th century Boston publishing houses ; check out Mr. Osgood here; James R. Osgood Co. closes, May, 1885 - NY Times , Listen to Matthew's Interview at the Parker House in Boston; Dickens in America - by Matthew Pearl

Some Recent Questions for Matthew:http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/lastdickens/lastdickens_q_a.html

Matthew is explaining a few of the mysteries in these chapters, isn't he? I'm just into Chapters 27 and 28, very long chapters, indeed. It was good that Rebecca finally put to rest the doubts she and others had of her brother's death; he was poisoned and his last words were an attempt to get the bundle of papers to Osgood. He tried, poor fellow, to do what was right, which perhaps will begin to heal the death of Daniel for Rbecca.

A tosher? That's a new word, an English word of some sort?

And now, Mr. Wakefield. This businessman, who shows up to rescue Osgood from a charge of being a public nuisance, I hope will take his pleasure in another's company; Rebecca is not for him. Perhaps we can match him up with "a fair-haired, pretty, and tightly cloaked young woman, a woman whom everyone knew about even if they were not meant to."; another individual who mysteriously appears at Gadshill when Osgood and Rebecca visit before returning to London.

What a story about Edward Trood, only in fiction, truly! His son's bones falling upon his shoulders from a rotting celing. Good heavens! Surely, this has to do with THE MYSTERY OF EDWIN DROOD, but as I have not read the book, I know not what. Suffice it to say I shall learn from others what mysteries are contained within the story of the landlord of the Falstaff Inn.

ANNIE · « **Reply #281 on:** October 19, 2009, 10:35:11 AM »

I have just finished the 26th chapter and read all of these questioning posts to Matthew. When I was in HS, we had to write a term paper at the end of the year. I chose Edgar Allen Poe and truly enjoyed living in the main library in Indianapolis, researching my author. But, without the internet, I didn't begin to find all of the info imparted here.
I have always believed that Poe drank himself to death from the research that I did. Remember, I was only 16 yrs old and in a hurry as most HS juniors are. Had to return to my social life as soon as possible.

JoanP · « **Reply #282 on:** October 19, 2009, 12:46:50 PM »

Ella, do you trust Mr. Wakefield? He showed up at the police station - and bailed out our Mr. Osgood. Why did the police think him a "tosher"? (I looked up "tosher" for us -

Quote

A tosher is someone who scavenges in the sewers, especially in London during the Victorian period. This activity began around the time of the construction of the London sewerage system, designed by Joseph Bazalgette.

The toshers decided to cut out the middle man and it was a common sight in 19th Century Wapping for whole families to whip off a manhole cover and go down into the sewers, where they would find rich pickings.

As most toshers would reek of the sewers, they were not popular with the neighbours.

I can see why they thought that - since that's where he as found - reeking. Disturbing the peace. How did Mr. Wakefield turn up at just that time? Remember that it was Mr. Wakefield who stepped forward and accused Herman of pouring a bucket of water so Osgood would fall when aboard the ship. I believe he was leering at Rebecca then too!

I can't see his role here - but he doesn't seen like one of the good guys.
It was interesting to read that Osgood had been injected with opium - just as Daniel had.. But where? in Sally's opium den? Where they using needles? I thought just pipes. I think we need to hear from Sally in the coming pages...

You're right in assuming there is a parallel between the stories of Matthew's Eddie Trood and Dickens' Edwin Drood. Both of their uncles are suspected of murdering these young lads, their nephews. There's a major difference though - Edwin Droid was a sweet young boy with a bright future before him. Eddie Trood is a run-away, a drug addict and involved in smuggling. The question is - why do you think Matthew chose to describe the nephew in this way, when Dickens described him more in such a better light?

I'd like US to address this question first - and after that, ask Matthew for his thoughts...

PatH · « **Reply #283 on:** October 19, 2009, 02:46:32 PM »

I agree that Wakefield is suspicious, and he's certainly after Rebecca, but he turned up at the police station because Osgood had his card in a pocket, and the police sent for him to help clarify things.

Quote from: JoanP on October 19, 2009, 12:46:50 PM

The question is - why do you think Matthew chose to describe the nephew in this way, when Dickens described him more in such a better light?

That's an interesting question; I'll have to think about it some.

JoanP · « **Reply #284 on:** October 19, 2009, 03:16:03 PM »

I'm looking forward to what you come up with, PatH...
also, I've been thinking about what you said about Wakefield's card showing up in Osgood's pocket. I'm wondering if that's the truth? Osgood dressed for the low life in London - didn't wear his best clothes. Tried to fit in with those who frequented the opium den as he set off with Datchery. Did it make sense that he'd fill his pockets with calling cards of folks he met on the ship? I am finding that hard to imagine... Does ti make sense to ylou?

serenesheila · « **Reply #285 on:** October 19, 2009, 05:37:40 PM »

I, too find it odd that JO would carry a business card in the pocket of his least good suit of clothes. It will be interesting to see if this leads anywhere.

I just read the change in our reading schedule. I am now at chapter 36. So, I will attempt to not give anything away.

Sheila

pedln · « **Reply #286 on:** October 19, 2009, 06:20:02 PM »

Interesting point about the business card. I wonder if it was in a little holder, just as some men carry business cards today -- something that like a wallet, that automatically went into the pocket after one had dressed for the day.

JoanK · « **Reply #287 on:** October 19, 2009, 09:42:55 PM »

Well, I've read through Ch. 29. More twists and turns. And a forray into the lives of pirates.

More info from the period. I had never heard of the tunnel under the Thames. What an atmosphere to hear about piracy and muder.

ANNIE · « **Reply #288 on:** October 20, 2009, 08:05:49 AM »

Wow, not only twist and turns but many new names are being added. Too much information to digest in Chaps26-29!!
Here's a link to the Thames Tunnel:
http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1791.htm

JoanP · « **Reply #289 on:** October 20, 2009, 09:13:15 AM »

Yes, there's a lot going on in this Fifth Installment, JoanK. I think we can handle it - if we follow Osgood - along with everyone else! Let's stick with the action and revelations in the first two chapters - 27-29, which lead up to James Osgood and Rebecca deciding to pack it up and go home, recognizing failure.

Thanks for the tunnel links, Annie! - the sewers and tunnels of London provide great settings for high nighttime intrigue, don't they? (Matthew, I'm betting the abandonned Thames Tunnel is no longer there - nor the opium dens for your research. Can you speak to Dickens' visit to an opium den as part of his research for writing his MED?) Who knew there were such people known as Sewer Hunters? Lucky for Osgood - Steve the Sewer Hunter came upon his body while there was still life in him. Someone is following him - and wants to kill him. Not surprising that it turns out to be Herman. He seems to be the only killer we've come across. It seemed he got what he came for - doesn't it? Datchery? I thought he wanted to kidnap Datchery, thinking him hypnotized with knowledge of Dickens' plans for the ending. Wrong!
So if Herman wasn't after Datchery, but murdered Osgood - what was he after as he followed the two to the opium den? Not the ending of Dickens' Drood? Then what?

By the way - Maryal figured it out, didn't she? Daniel's last words - "It is God's" = "It's Osgood's." That's one for our team! Hope you are feeling better, Maryal!

I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on Eddie Trood and Edwin Drood - and why do you think Matthew chose to describe the nephew as a wastrel and drug addict, when Dickens described him more in such a better light? Both of their uncles were addicted to opium - but Edwin Drood? Will this shed some light on the story?

ALF43 · « **Reply #290 on:** October 20, 2009, 10:26:03 AM »

Yuk- sewer hunters! Are they akin to the hobos who live in the NY City sewers- under the tubes?
Is it coincidental that Wakefield keeps popping up all of the time? He assists JO and Rebecca aboard ship and now he has him freed from jail. He also seems rather hot for Rebecca doesn't he?
"I confess that although I am horrible alarmed by Mr. Osgood's surprising state, I take solace in the pleasure I feel to be in your company again."

Then he tells Rebecca that Osgood told of her being a divorcee'.
Maybe I am just too much of a cynic but WHY does he keep appearing when the chips are down, practically drooling over Rebecca?

ALF43 · « **Reply #291 on:** October 20, 2009, 10:38:58 AM »

Matthew, I love this Falstaff impersonation by Wm. Trood. Dressed in a costume the landlord of the inn provided information and insight just like Shakespeare's Falstaff. Was Trood a drunk, a merry maker, like Falstaff? No, I don't think so. Didn't Falstaff believe that "Life is a big charade?" I'm confused with this Falstaff reference so far.

FALSTAFF-

Even his name invites humor, as it is a sort of pun on impotence, brought on by the character's excessive consumption of alcohol. Scholars also note the potential for a pun on the author himself - Fall-Staff; Shake-Spear.

marcie · « **Reply #292 on:** October 20, 2009, 12:00:53 PM »

Regarding the police finding Wakefield's business card in Osgood's pocket, it's believable to me that, the night that Osgood and Datchery went to the opium den, Osgood had on a suit that he was wearing on the boat, presumably when Wakefield gave him his business card. Osgood didn't have a lot of clothing choices. In Chapter 19, as he gets ready to go with Datchery, the text says "Osgood returned in a suit only a little less formal. 'I am afraid I shall still stand out,' he said, smiling."

Wakefield does seem to turn up at the moments when Osgood encounters Herman: first on the ship when Herman caused him to slip on some water and then when Osgood appears to be attacked by Herman in the opium den.

marcie · « **Reply #293 on:** October 20, 2009, 12:12:09 PM »

Quote from: JoanP on October 19, 2009, 12:46:50 PM

The question is - why do you think Matthew chose to describe the nephew in this way, when Dickens described him more in such a better light?

Well, in The Last Dickens, we have the important relationship between Edwin Drood and Rosa, around whom the main plot seems to revolve. Edwin Drood has to be likely match for Rosa so he has to be an upstanding person and we have to care about his possibly being murdered.

I see a sort of blending of characteristics and events relating to the Eddie Trood character with both Edwin Drood and his uncle Jasper in The Mystery of Edwin Drood. Some of the events in Eddie Trood's life parallel those of Edwin Drood (taken under the wing of his uncle; possibly killed by his uncle)and he also shares the kind of Jeckyl and Hyde personality of Jasper (seemingly good but has a side of him that steals things with no recognition or remorse).

marcie · « **Reply #294 on:** October 20, 2009, 12:20:42 PM »

It seems to me that Dickens could have been doing research for "The Mystery of Edwin Drood" to learn more about the "how tos" of murder and the disposing of a body when he toured the lab related to the Parkman-Webster murder case.

JoanK · « **Reply #295 on:** October 20, 2009, 03:03:19 PM »

"Who knew there were such people known as Sewer Hunters?" Anyone who reads mystery stories! They are stock figures in finding bodies there.

There were so many poor people in London, that no possibility of earning a living went unexplored. There were also "mudlarks", small boys who would search along the mud banks of the Thames for anything they could sell.

matthewpearl · « **Reply #296 on:** October 21, 2009, 07:28:10 AM »

I'll get to some of the question in a second.

I have a new link this time a guest post about my writing space.

matthewpearl · « **Reply #297 on:** October 21, 2009, 07:33:14 AM »

Hi again, Writing from Texas. Returning home a bit later (then no travel to speak of for a while, thankfully!)

"Matthew, I'm betting the abandonned Thames Tunnel is no longer there - nor the opium dens for your research. Can you speak to Dickens' visit to an opium den as part of his research for writing his MED? "

Yeah, those places are definitely not there anymore! Dickens wrote several letters describing his visit to the opium den, so I had details. Plus, other journalists and writers visited the same dens--there were only two main ones--around the same time, so I was able to get tons of details, and they also stayed very close to what you read in The Mystery of Edwin Drood.

We're so close to everything being tied up, I don't want to give anything away!

JoanP · « **Reply #298 on:** October 21, 2009, 09:33:19 AM »

Good morning, Matthew!
We can't tell you how much we appreciate your stopping in and sharing so much with us during your busy travel schedule. Not only have you shared information on the writing of this novel - but we have enjoyed the extra information you have written in blogs elsewhere.
This morning's glimpse into your work space was a treat! I like to think of you on your couch - (or lying in bed!) in your late 19th c. house - as you dreamed up the scenes we are now reading in The Last Dickens.. You are really caught up in this period - in is only fitting that your new work space will continue to provide the mood. Can you tell us again what you are planning for your next book? As I recall it did have something to do with Dickens. Terrible memory, these days.

Your mention of "trinkets' surrounding your writing desk reminded me of my visit to the Dickens' Museum on Doubty St. in London several weeks ago. The docent there told of how Dickens' liked to surround himself with familiar objects when he sat down to write. I took a picture of these monkeys which were said to be on his desk as he wrote Drood -

JoanP · « **Reply #299 on:** October 21, 2009, 09:53:45 AM »

You are so right, Matthew - we are in the process of tying things up. I think we are all on different pages - and are now afraid to say anything that will give things away. With each turn of the last pages, there are more revelations! Treading gently here - and still trying to keep the discussion to the first two chapters in the 5th Installation.

Marcie - all right, it's possible from the quote you brought here, that Osgood was wearing the same suit he wore aboard the ship and that would explain why Wakefield's calling card is still in his suit pocket. Also Pedln's explanation that he was carrying a wallet, or a clip with a number of cards in his pocket would explain the same thing. I still don't like the way he keeps turning up - and suspect him of ...something.

When Matthew wrote that he chose the room at the front of the house - looking out at neighbors, perhaps - and what is going on beyond his workspace, I thought immediately of Dickens in his workroom at Gadshill. We know in other of his novels he wrote of actual people and their doings. Changed their names - and characters, somewhat, to fit into his story. It really isn't too far-fetched to think of him choosing to write of the troubled Trood boy - and then changing his name to "Drood" - do you think? Nor is it hard to believe that he would choose to write of this boy in a better light - ever conscious of the difficulties poor boys faced at the time. Dickens may have rehabilitated his Drood boy for his novel and wrote of his trusting relationship with his drug-addicted uncle instead.

Here's a question to play with today - How do you think Dickens came up with the name "Drood" for his Edwin? Is it a play on words? Was it the name of an actual person? The only thing I can come up with is - "Druid" - but can't see how that would work here.

Must run, be back soon. In the meantime, don't give anything away!

Ella Gibbons · « **Reply #300 on:** October 21, 2009, 10:04:40 AM »

Writing in bed! That's unusual, Matthew, I would think.

Do you write in longhand or on a laptop? If on a laptop, do you have a bed tray of some sort?

I read in bed much of the time, but haven't tried writing. The new pencil leads are good for writing while lying down, though, as I have found when reading and making notes in the margins.

I am ahead of the reading schedule, but, perhaps, I can inject an interesting note about James Harper, founder of Harper and Brothers publishing House, mayor of New York in 1844. Here is a biography of the man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harper_(publisher)

MATTHEW, it must have been fun to do the research on this book, delving into historical facts and figures. I noted that Harper ran on the KNOW NOTHING party, that's so different as to be almost comical, but it was a real party at the time and has an interesting history that we have run into as we have discussed a couple of nonfiction books dealing with that period.

PatH · « **Reply #301 on:** October 21, 2009, 10:23:55 AM »

Quote from: JoanP on October 21, 2009, 09:53:45 AM

Here's a question to play with today - How do you think Dickens came up with the name "Drood" for his Edwin? Is it a play on words? Was it the name of an actual person? The only thing I can come up with is - "Druid" - but can't see how that would work here.

The introduction to my copy of MED gives some things Dickens scribbled down on a piece of paper as he was trying to zero in on a title and character name:

Friday, Twentieth August, 1869

The Loss of James Wakefield.
   Edwyn.
   James' Disappearance.
   FLIGHT AND PURSUIT.
   SWORN TO AVENGE IT.
   ONE OBJECT IN LIFE.
A KINSMAN'S DEVOTION.

   THE TWO KINSMEN.

The Loss of Edwin Brood.
   The Loss of Edwin Brude.
   The Mystery in the Drood Family.
The Loss of Edwyn Drood
   The Flight of Edwyn Drood. Edwin Drood in hiding.
   The Loss of Edwin Drude.
The Disappearance of Edwin Drood.
   The Mystery of Edwin Drood.
   Dead? or Alive?

Wherever he got the idea, you can see him fiddling around with it. But look at the first line. Wakefield? The Wakefield in our book can't be Trood, because Trood's bones were found, and besides Wakefield doesn't have a club foot, but it's a very suspicious coincidence.

PatH · « **Reply #302 on:** October 21, 2009, 10:29:36 AM »

Ella, I work crossword puzzles and Sudoku in bed a lot. The only problem is falling asleep while doing it and rolling over on your pencil. Ouch.

I've only read through chapter 29, on schedule, and I'm glad, because the plot keeps twisting around. It would be hard not to give something away.

serenesheila · « **Reply #303 on:** October 21, 2009, 10:38:06 AM »

Just a reminder. Today, the program about opium, morphine and heroin, is being shown on the History Channel. It is called "Hooked: Illegal Drugs and How They Got That Way".

Sheila

ANNIE · « **Reply #304 on:** October 21, 2009, 10:55:39 AM »

Thanks, Sheila, for that reminder. I hope it doesn't interfere with the baseball game!

marcie · « **Reply #305 on:** October 21, 2009, 01:13:12 PM »

Matthew, Thank you for the link to your guest post at http://www.savvyverseandwit.com/2009/10/matthew-pearls-writing-space.html. It must be fun to be able to design your own workspace. I love the story about your grandmother giving you the framed print of the American poets just when you were writing the Dante Club.

Joan, I love those weird monkey figurines. I'm glad you took all of the photos you've been sharing with us. It helps me to visualize Dickens.

PatH, some of those titles make me wonder now if Edwin Drood was actually killed in the Mystery of Edwin Drood (especially the "Edwin Drood in hiding" one, although his dead body could be hidden).

Thanks for the reminder, Sheila.

JoanK · « **Reply #306 on:** October 21, 2009, 02:25:16 PM »

Yes, the titles certainly make it sound as if Edwin Drood is in Hiding!!

I'm caught up, too, but as was said afraid to say a spoiler for those who aren't. In other discussions, we put SPOILER in caps before anything that might do that.

serenesheila · « **Reply #307 on:** October 21, 2009, 02:49:25 PM »

I have decided that Edwin Drood just disappered. It seems to me that if he had been murdered, the book would have been titled: "The Murder of Edwin Drood". Of course, I have never been any good, at guessing outcomes. Either in fiction, or in real life.

Sheila

PatH · « **Reply #308 on:** October 21, 2009, 06:52:37 PM »

Shiela, Dickens was being very close-mouthed about the end of the book because any leak would have hurt sales. The same introduction I quoted suggested he might even have misled Forster or deliberately fed him inconsistent remarks.

PatH · « **Reply #309 on:** October 21, 2009, 07:55:54 PM »

SPOILER!!! DON'T READ THIS IF YOU AREN'T UP TO CHAPTER 29!

Well, let's not all speak at once. Wow! the plot certainly goes a long way in these chapters. Tom Branagan resurfaces, we find out who "Datchery" really is, we learn a lot more about Herman, and the details about what's behind everything are starting to become clearer. Of course, I wouldn't put it past Matthew to change half our perceptions in the next chapters--he can be pretty sly.

Where to start? I think with Herman, though he's not first in the section. What a scene! Down in a dank tunnel with the terrified Yahee, who knows he will be killed if Herman finds out he's been talking, then we hear Herman's grisly story. What a tale! His whole family, opium traders, killed by rival Chinese pirates, he being taken prisoner. The harsh life would have been enough to make anyone vicious, but he seems to have been without any conscience or compassion from the start.

Now he has a big opium smuggling operation going, and much of the plot turns on it. Eddie Trood knew too much about it. Herman is afraid that Dickens' novel will reveal too much, so he's trying to get hold of it. And presumably what Dickens in India is zeroing in on is that end of the operation.

JoanP · « **Reply #310 on:** October 21, 2009, 08:29:37 PM »

PatH, as I listened to Yahee describe young Herman's sad childhood, I felt I understood how he grew up with no concept of right or wrong - no attachment to another human being. The boy never had a chance. He had to struggle just to survive. I know, I know, he's a murderer - but I'm wondering if anyone else felt a bit of sympathy for him when reading of his childhood, his capture aboard the Chinese pirate ship. I'm expecting him to show some sort of feeling, self-realization - before Matthew is finished with him. I think he's the kind of boy that Dickens would have reached out to help. (As I write this, I'm thinking it's probably too late.)

What does Herman want? Why is he following Osgood? It wasn't Datchery he wanted - to take him to the end of the tale, was it? He wants to get to the end so that he can murder the person who might reveal the opium smuggling operation? He's not working for Harper after all. That's what I had thought at first. You're right, Pat - Matthew has us in the palm of his hand. Didn't you believe that Dickens had hypnotized the farmer to believe he is Datchery? I thought it was a pretty good story and was willing to follow him into the opium den while he and Osgood got to the bottom of what had happened to Edwin Drood. (Thanks for the names Dickens considered - before he settled on "Drood." Don't you wonder why he wanted it to rhyme with "Brood"? Wouldn't you love to interview Dickens? Over a meal - at Gadshill?)

Oops, I'm missing the History Channel - Hooked! Will be back later...

PatH · « **Reply #311 on:** October 21, 2009, 08:31:58 PM »

SPOILER (SORT OF)!

This is only sort of relevant, but it's too good not to share. Herman's time with the Chinese pirates reminded me of a book I read a few years ago: "I Sailed With Chinese Pirates" by Aleko Lilius. Lilius was a Russian-born, Finnish-raised American journalist who, in the late 1920s, on commission for several magazines, managed to worm his way onto a number of pirate ships in the south of China and photograph their operations--a pretty impressive feat for a white man with little Chinese language skills. They weren't anything like as bloody and vicious as Herman's pirates, but the feel was the same. Lilius seems to have had a taste for danger, but he was still pretty lucky not to have been killed.

His first and most important contact was a woman pirate, Lai Choi San, thought by some to be the model for the Dragon Lady in "Terry and the Pirates". (She doesn't look much like the Dragon Lady, though.) And if there are any Arthur Ransome fans out there (I bet there aren't--I only know one among all my acquaintances) they will suspect that she is Missee Lee.

PatH · « **Reply #312 on:** October 21, 2009, 09:01:46 PM »

Matthew, your new working room reminds me of a room at the top of the house I grew up in. My room had wonderful vibes--peace and happiness. I hope yours will too.

JoanP · « **Reply #313 on:** October 21, 2009, 09:20:37 PM »

I wonder if Matthew read "I Sailed with Chinese Pirates," PatH...let's ask him. I have to admit, that I was unable to find the History Channel program - they showed it this morning at 10am! How could I have read that wrong? I'm going to have to depend on you for details, Sheila. It was on again this afternoon at 4pm and then at 6 pm. I paged ahead to see if there was a repeat - without luck.

That was a touching description of Dickens' last day as he lay dying in the dining room. All the more so because it seemed an accurate description of what it was like that day at Gadshill. One question, Matthew - did Dickens really say John Forster's name at the end? I understand he was his best friend, but what of his family gathered around? His daughters - Georgina? Or Ellen Ternan? Did he really call Forster's name - or is that fiction? I thought it was interesting that Ellen came - was this the first time that she had ever visited Dickens' home? I know she lived in a house nearby - purchased by Dickens - but somehow I got the impression that he kept Ellen and his family completely separate - never discussing her with them.

Here's a photo taken at Gadshill shortly before Dickens' death -

Group portrait in the porch at Gads Hill Place, H.F. Chorley, Kate Dickens, Mamie Dickens, Charles Dickens, C.A. Collins and Georgina Hogarth

JoanP · « **Reply #314 on:** October 21, 2009, 09:40:33 PM »

Sheila - one more question before I turn off this computer tonight- when did you conclude that Edwin Drood had slipped away, not been murdered after all? I know you were part of the Dickens' discussion - how did you vote at the end of it? How about you, PatH? JoanK - Marcie? If you changed your mind since then, can you share what is making you think Edwin is hiding somewhere? Is there any one thing?

PatH · « **Reply #315 on:** October 21, 2009, 11:19:36 PM »

I'm winding up packing to go off to the west coast tomorrow early. I'll have internet access there, but probably not much time until Friday. I'll read the next installment on the plane.

JoanP · « **Reply #316 on:** October 22, 2009, 09:04:41 AM »

Bon Voyage, PatH! Have a great visit to the west coast! Didn't Andy have a travel day yesterday too? To upstate New York? We get around, don't we?

Ella, I've spent the morning poking around the link you brought yesterday to background information on James Harper - what a character! A big man, Mayor of NY, and a shrewd publisher! Started his own police force - (Banished free-roaming pigs from the streets of New York, and began work on establishing a citywide sanitation system.)
He was ruthless, he did want to be the first to publish Dickens' MED in hardcover - before Field and Osgood did it. But you know, he doesn't seem to be a man who would stoop to murder, does he? Unless, he hired such people to follow Osgood and turned his back if they resorted to murder to get their hands on the needed information. I think they are following Osgood - that Jack Rogers aka "Datchery" was one of his hired hands, but Datchery is right when he tells Osgood that he is in danger.

But Osgood seems not to be as concerned with his own safety - or Rebecca's. He wants to find the missing installments.

What do you think of the idea that Dickens had written the ending pages first - and that they are hidden somewhere? He really was interested in the story Poe related about William Godwin's Caleb Williams, do you remember? If Dickens lived to publish Installment Seven, where do you think he might have gone with the story? For those of you who haven't read Dickens' novel, we were left after the 6th installment with Datchery, an investigator (we think he was someone else in disguise) on Uncle Jasper's trail - and the Opium dame, was a connection that he was pursuing...

I'm caught up in the idea that Dickens' had already written the conclusion - before he even began the 6 existing episodes. Although, on another day, I believe that Dickens still hadn't figured out how he was going to end the story!

ALF43 · « **Reply #317 on:** October 22, 2009, 09:24:29 AM »

Good grief, I'm traveling for one day and all hell has broken loose between these hearty 3 chapters!
I will be in and out all day. My daughter is leading a Great Books discussion for the children of the 5th grade and at this moment is entertaining 14 women who are meeting to distribute 999+ bags for the Saratoga County Children's program.
So-- I will scoot in and out most of the day.

I agree Joan that Dicken's unhappy childhood seems to be reflected through our Edward Trood; albeit the club foot. What didn't ring true, to me, was the "genuinely kind and amiable " personality that seemed to do an about face in the presence of the evil, nefarious Uncle Nathan. WE learn from William that this resulted in the death of both Nathan and Edward being "walled off" from existance. Poor William suffers from the belief that he held the skull of his beloved son evene though he told friends and neighbors that he had been lost to the sea.

I also had a problem with Dickens dying in that manner. Perhaps, befoee I beat that to death, I will ask Matt if he has any information about Dickens last few hours?

ALF43 · « **Reply #318 on:** October 22, 2009, 09:46:25 AM »

Joan- I don't know about DRUID. I do know that in early Irish law and literature they were portrayed in early Irish sagas and saints' lives -set in the pre-Christian past of the island, usually accorded high social status.

The evidence of the law-texts, which were first written down in the seventh and eighth centuries, suggests that with the coming of Christianity the role of the druid (Old Irish druí) in Irish society was rapidly reduced to that of a sorcerer who could be consulted to cast spells or practise healing magic and that his standing declined accordingly.

We know Mr. Dickens dabbled in allof this stuff. Maybe you have hit on something here with the bastardization of the name DRUID to TROOD or DROOD. Ok Matthew, are we way off base here?

Our historical knowledge of druids is very limited but throughout history Druids have had different conotations; ignorant savages, priests and get this! From Wikipedia
-"The Pythagorean doctrine prevails among the Gauls' teaching that the souls of men are immortal, and that after a fixed number of years they will enter into another body."
"The principal point of their doctrine", says Caesar, "is that the soul does not die and that after death it passes from one body into another" (see metempsychosis).

Hello! Did we have some exchange of metempsychosis here in The Last Dickens, I ask? Yes we did! Did Dicken's play with that word Druid in his writing?

/

JoanP · « **Reply #319 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:36:37 AM »

Andy, don't you wish we could sit down to dinner with Dickens' and ask him about all of this? Brood/Drood - Druid? and why those monkeys on his writing table? They seem so...unlike Dickens, don't they? Gifts from daughters? From Ellen? We'd probably forget to ask this - as we peppered him with questions about the ending of his story. He probably wouldn't tell though.

Meanwhile, back in London.... Tom Branagan appears on the scene! Bigger and better than ever - like Superman! Reveals Datchery's identity - and becomes self appointed protector of Rebecca and Osgood. Thank heavens! Someone needs to help them. They are so focussed on finding what they came for, they seem to shrug off Herman's threat - and he's out there somewhere - probably not far away either!

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