Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1

[JoanP]

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Major Pettigrew's Last Stand  by Helen Simonson

April Book Club Online  

"When Major Pettigrew, a retired British army major in a small English village, embarks on an unexpected friendship with the widowed Mrs. Ali, who runs the local shop, trouble erupts to disturb the bucolic serenity of the village and of the Major’s carefully regimented life.   "As the Major and Mrs. Ali discover just how much they have in common, including an educated background and a shared love of books, they must struggle to understand what it means to belong and how far the obligations of family and tradition can be set aside for personal freedom. Meanwhile, the village itself, lost in its petty prejudices and traditions, may not see its own destruction coming."  New York Times  (best seller) "...a wry and witty love story set in a little English village where small town prejudices, and race and religious intolerances are alive and well. With gentle insight, the author captures the thrill of falling in love after 60 and the disruption romance can introduce into a well-settled life."

Discussion Schedule:

April 1-7 ~ Chapters 1-6]
April 8 - 15 ~ Chapters 7-12
April 16 - 24 ~ Chapters 13-17

(E-readers ~ Last lines in Chapter 17:
 ..."She hurried down the driveway, and as she disappeared, blue dress into deep night, he knew he was a fool. Yeat at that moment, he could not find a way to be a different man."

*****

For Consideration
April 16-24 ~ Chapters 13-17

1.  "When we pick and choose around the rules, we discover later we have  set aside something precious in the process."  Do you remember who said this?  The Major?  Sandy?  Abdul Wahid?  Mrs. Ali?

2.  How do you score on first impressions?  Has your first impression of Sandy changed?   Perhaps she herself has changed?  Do you see a future for Sandy and Roger?

3.  Can you tell how long the relationship between Roger and the Major has been strained or what caused it?   How does Abdul Wahid's relationship with his father differ? 

4. What does the shop represent to Mrs. Ali?   When she offers the shop to her nephew is she giving away more than the  financial investment?

5.  Did the duck hunt on Lord  Dagenham's estate fulfill the Major's expectations?  Did Roger's presence spoil his dream of showing off the Churchills?

6.  Had the Major expected that Ferguson was going to "pillage the village"  with his drastic redevelopment of St. Mary Edgecombe? Why is the Major the key to the success of the village makeover? 

7.  What is Ferguson's real interest in the Churchills?

8.  Was Mrs. Ali's ravishing appearance at the ball something out of a fairy tale?  What were your most vivid memories of the evening - before the ensuing melee? 

 9.  What was the cause of Mr. Rasool's outburst that led to the bruhaha abruptly ending the entertainment?

10..  What stopped the Major from running down the driveway to take  Mrs. Ali home?
 

Related Links:
SeniorLearn Readers' Interview with Helen Simonson, Part 1;
  SeniorLearn's Questions for Helen Simonson;    NPR's Interview with the Author;   Churchill Rifles - "World's Finest" ;    Churchill Method: Rules of Shooting;

   

  Discussion Leaders:  Barbara & JoanP

[JoanP]

Steph, you're doing a great job of not revealing the end of the story.  Isn't this a good book to reread, though?  There is so much you can sail right over while following the plot...which you can appreciate more at a closer reading when you know how things are going to play out.

I haven't finished the book, won't let myself read ahead of the schedule, but have noticed things I've missed when looking to earlier chapters for something -

Today, while searching for the passage describing those three swans, for example, I found more references to the clematis flower - remember the  crimson clematis flowers on Nancy's housecoat the Major was wearing in the  opening scene?  They appear again - this time purple clematis admired by Mrs. Ali in the Majors garden.  Are these flowers common in Sussex, I wonder? 
I also came across other lines  - descriptions - like this one, which I don't remember reading the first time around - this one on page 64.  Oh yes, another discovery.  My library book was due back and I couldn't renew it.  It was hardback.  I then purchased a paperback and find that the page numbers in the paperback and the hardcover correspond!  I thought that was amazing...

"Memories were like tomb paintings, thought the Major, the colors still vivid no matter how many layers of mud and sand time deposited." 
Don't you find this so true?.  A powerful thing, the brain!

I started finding things while looking to see exactly what the Major had thought about those three swans. - reread the book again all the way up to page 128 -
"three bleached-looking swans.  There were always just three and it fascinated the Major to try to work out which was the odd one out and why it stuck around."

Did you think of these swans as you watched Grace, Mrs. Ali and the Major?  Which do you see as the odd one out?  Does Grace ever realize that she has any competition for the Major's attention - until the Major invited Mrs. Ali to the dance, that is?  Do you see any reaction from Grace at this?
 
 

[BarbStAubrey]

Welcome back to you also MaryZ - looks like April was a time for many to break with routine - weren't  you out of town as well Steph?

Your post pedln was music to my ears on several fronts - I love David Brooks - he is more even in his opinions so that even when I do not agree with him I do not want to stop listening. Have you read his new book - it is on my list - and then the concept of poetry that runs through our communications -  so obvious and yet, it takes someone to point out the obvious - thanks.

Did you all feel sorry for Sadie Khan when reading the restaurant scene - you could tell she was trying so hard to be on the other side of the serving table at the country club - oh dear - and yet, the 'ladies' of the country club were probably feeling second class citizens and only by the grace of who they married and feeling important according to their position on the planning committees did they get on the bandwagon of measuring their social value. What to me is so maddening most of the guys didn't get it... well the Major, as quiet as he seems sure made an impact on the planning for the dance.

The comment by Abdul when the Major asks Mrs. Ali to the dance I thought was so perfect it made me chuckle - right down the alley of the thinking that once over a certain age you become a changed person and there are different rules for acceptable behavior.  "My aunt would not dream of attending," I love it - of course when I read it I put a lot of emphasis with a tongue and cheek broad smile on the word "dream."

JoanP I missed the clematis flower repeat - just merrily read along and it all passed me by - and that line - just too perfect "Memories were like tomb paintings," - a pause there to ruminate if that is what we do - we either mud over a memory or a wind storm comes along blowing sand that wipes out some of the sharpness of the unprotected memories - lots to ponder from those few words - and only after they are taken out of context do I see the depth of thinking and feeling from Helen Simonson. To have written such a fast moving story full of life on so many levels and yet, to have many bits of wisdom that stay with the reader - yes, let's hope Helen Simonson has more books in her.

Ok lots to catch up on - need to review the past posts especially the interview - and  yes, it looks like the big dance is our discussion for next week - Till later...

[BarbStAubrey]

Those three swans - they fleeted in and out of  my mind picture this afternoon -  I couldn't help but get a shadow of Nancy just as Mrs.Ali would have the shadow of Ahmed her deceased husband. I wondered if there is that shadow that must be acknowledged in any marriage that takes place after an earlier partner dies and so like the third swan they are always together - sorta like those tomb paintings.

[bellamarie]

Well I'm caught up to chapter 7 and must say I am fascinated with Major and Mrs. Ali.  I really like the Major, I only wonder if he is just a bit obsessed about the pair of guns.  My Mom passed away twenty yrs ago and when all of us sisters read what she wanted done with her jewelry she stated that all the sets should stay together.  That made it a bit difficult since she only specified certain sets to a few of us leaving the other sisters trying to decide who should get the remaining pieces without breaking up the set.  There was certainly hurt feelings and possibly caused the six of us sisters to hold a bit of resentment.  This sure makes me think twice about my doll collections I have as sets and how I will ask for them to be dispersed.  I can't imagine breaking up the "Little Women" series, or the Princess Diana series, or the Beautiful dreamers series, yet I have four grnd daughters and only one daughter.  Hmmm....I'm gonna give this alot of thought after reading how Mrs. Ali felt about her father's book collection and Major's feelings about the guns.

Anyway....I just love the relationship between the Major and Mrs. Ali at this point in the book.  I love  how she has seemed to awaken new life in him.  Its so sweet the two of them sharing their times together.  I love the humor, I am laughing out loud.  I am weary of Roger's girlfriend and their motives for cottage hunting near the Major.  What do they have up their sleeve?

Okay I plan to catch up and then read all the posts this week end.

Ciao for now~

[Steph]

The Major tries so hard to sound and be what he considers normal, but a poetical side does creep in. He sounds so hungry for good conversation and finding it in Mrs. Ali has pleased him so very much. I dont blame him for inviting MRs. Ali.. He is an honorable man and the ladies were being spiteful.

[Frybabe]

In Chapter 13, I see Roger's obsession with money and getting ahead coming out in full force. I also get more of a glimpse into the parent/son relationship when Roger was growing up. I am now wondering if Roger's acquisitiveness is a way of compensating for his childhood upbringing. It appears that Roger rarely got praise from his father, who preferred to criticize his son in the name of making him stronger. Roger's constant talk about his accomplishments and acquisitions seems, now, an unconscious ongoing effort to get that praise. Notice how the Major tends to rain on Roger's parade. But, I also see an inkling (in Chapter 15) that the Major is starting to recognize his own tendency to putting Roger down.

[JoanP]

It really makes you think about what you leave behind when you are making out your will, doesn't it, Bella?  My husband thinks we should just "let them fight it out"  after we're gone, but I can't believe he means it.  Maybe it would be better to give things away while we are living - to avoid all that.  If there are hard feelings, then we can do something about it, rather than leave hurt feelings as a legacy.
Read on - want to hear what you think of Sandy after you've read the next chapters.  I'm really terrible with first impressions - often am so far off that I amaze myself.

Steph, I'll agree, the ladies were dreadful - I felt Helen S. was exaggerating their bad manners.  No one could be that condescending - especially right to someone's face!  I'm trying to remember whether Grace took part in that.  She seemed  a better person than that.  Do you remember?

Frybabe, I keep waiting for the true Roger to show up - under all that bravado.  Maybe we have to learn that through Sandy?  I'm waiting to see Roger's true colors...

These chapters lead up to the big scene at the dance.  H.S. does a great job building the suspense, don't you think?

[bellamarie]

Joan P.  I'm not so sure about letting them fight over it once we are  gone.  I do like the idea of giving my treasures away while I am still able to see the joy in their faces and explain to each of them why I am choosing them.  And yes, in case there are any hurt feelings, we could discuss them and rectify them, rather they have questions later as to why did so and so get this or that.  I do know a couple of my sisters felt horribly left out because a few of us were given certain pieces of jewelry that seems more valuable and personal and they were left to split the rest.  I felt horrible that day we went through them. 

As for my first impressions of Sandy, I'm not liking her much.  She is insensitive, manipulative and seems a bit too anxious to have the finer things in the cottage.  To say he can not bring childhood attachment items that will clutter the cottage tells us who is wearing the pants in that relationship.  What does Roger see in her?  Is she a possession to acheive to give him a sense of success?  Joan, my first impressions are usually very good with people I have to admit, I have a widowed sister who meets guys online for possible dates and she always asks my advice and I am batting 100 out of 100 so far.  NO successful relationships yet for her. lol


Why am I sensing now that the Major has the gun in his possession it may not mean as much?  I am only up to chapter 12, but as I recall he didn't even take it out of the coverlet for days.  Hmmm....if it were me I would have had to see it and handle it instantly as I got home.

OMG...the whole cottage scene was so funny my husband was in the other room and came in and started laughing at me laughing out loud and had to hear what was so funny.  I read him the entire part and he cracked up.  I so LOVE H.S.'s wonderful writing style.  She captures the most intimate of colors, and feelings.  This is one of the most enjoyable books I have read in a very long time.

I stayed up very late into the morning reading all your posts and still have a ways to go, but I intend not to miss one of them.  Rosemary, once again you are here to give us such great insight into the English life.  I was a bit amazed to see the rows of colored houses.  They truly appeared to look like contruction paper buildings to me.

Okay I began my spring break/vacation today and my dear husband is off also which is a treat for the both of us to have a Saturday to share since he is a mailman and works many of them, so I must go and spend some time with him.  I chuckled when Roger asked the Major has be now become friends with the milkman as well.  LOLOL  My hubby has become a true daily friend to many of his patrons and they confide in him more than their family members and look forward to him every day.  Does Roger feel a bit threatened with the fact his father seems to be making new friends?  And what about this abrupt announcement of this fiancee'.  Woweeee...what a way to tell your father you are engaged.  Then to dismiss him as soon as they have successfully rented the cottage.  I can't wait to read more of this story but I must shove off now.

Ciao for now~

[BarbStAubrey]

Truley I do not know when I have read a  more satisfying story - I've just finished up a couple of books by new authors and they just do not hold a candle to the writing and depth of meaning in the metaphor's used by Helen Simonson.

Just the opening sentence in Chapter 13 is a perfect allegory to the relationship the Major has with Roger -

"Sunday morning it was sunny and the Major was in the back garden, forking a pile of leaves into a wheelbarrow, when his son's raised voice from the house snapped him to attention and caused him to drop the entire load with a half-formed oath."  

I love it - there he is going about the business of his life as if each day is a leaf added to the pile he is gathering and readying to move on to its next resting place when his son, as his son must have called him since he was a child, snaps the Major to attention - there he is all about duty and responsibility - his son's call is not the music of love in his ears but a call to arms so that he drops his life as being separate from his son and then is so annoyed with not being able to juggle both his life and his responsibility to be at beck and call to his son - oh just too funny - so many men who struggle with their role relating to grown children - though I must say more like men 30 and 40 years ago so that this has the ring of history but then there may be spots of places where men still see themselves as separate rather than buddies in the grown-child/father relationships.

Bellamarie - if you are reading this weekend you are in for a treat - let us know your reactions please.

Steph the Major is a poetic kind of guy isn't he - softer on the inside than we can observe in the others - do you like his golfing buddy - to me he sounds like just the kind of fun teasing partner to have while playing golf.

Frybabe there seems to be a couple of turning points in these chapters about the relationship between the Major and Roger - looks like they needed something in common to bond over as adult men. That I thought was a challenge with my own children - trying actually to get them to think of me as a friend so to speak rather than, a matriarchal governor, judge and administrator of moral lectures that seemed to be my role when they were teens.

All of a sudden the story is full with all sorts of threads - country club dances, hunts, plans for a 21st century upscale township, Americans, the guns, Marjorie and her daughter, ladies and the Major, golf and golf buddies, fantasizing about Kipling, Roger and Sandy and their cottage, Mrs. Ali's family, Abdul, Amina and George, Sadie Khan, Grace, on and on it goes - talk about a village full of characters - this story is now full to the brim.  

[Steph]

Grace stays consistantly nice. The Major likes her, but like a friend and I suspect she keeps hoping for more.
Sandy gets better.. At least I think so.
I thought that I had made a dent on my grown up sons to regard me as a friend, but when mdh died , they both seemed to revert to caretakers.. Dont need one, but they honestly believe that they are doing what their Dad wanted. Interesting to watch and now that I have made it clear , that I will make my own decisions, they are calming down.

[BarbStAubrey]

Steph I know what you mean about our kids thinking they are supposed to take care of us which more often than not seems to mean to make discussions for us. It sure never occurred to me that we had to push for our own independence and right to choose with our children which makes me wonder just how much do they think we did all those years they were growing up or do they really think all decisions came from their father. Well that is a different conversation isn't it - did you get a kick out how Roger reacted to finding Abdul in the house - a lot of conflict for Roger at that moment but fuuuunnnnny!

And then a man after my own heart when the Major parrots back, "What do you mean 'elderly people'?" - and then "Americans are just like us" oh dear, and so there it is...

[rosemarykaye]

Barb - I don't think they (or at least my children) think that their father did all the thinking when they were little - I think they think that neither of us have any mental capacity whatsoever    And sometimes I almost agree with them BUT....  at the moment, Anna seems determined to persuade me that I should not buy a house outside Edinburgh city centre, because "what on earth would you do all day?" - of course I can think of plenty of things, but I think she thinks I am living in la-la land, because her 16 year old self wants to be out clubbing asap.  Oh well, I bet I was the same at her age.

Rosemary

[BarbStAubrey]

        

[Frybabe]

Okay, I couldn't resist. Last night I finished off the whole book. Didn't go to bed until 2:45am. Of course, Twerp would have none of me sleeping in this morning. I envision me falling asleep on my evening TV viewing.

[rosemarykaye]

I have looked up "a goose walked over my grave", because although I have frequently heard the saying "someone is walking over my grave" when someone shivers, I had never heard the "goose" part.

The site i found says that the original saying dates from the 18th century, and comes from the idea that if you shiver, someone is walking over the eventual site of your grave.  Apparently in Mediaeval times, - according to the writer - the distinction between life and death was more blurred than it is now, and when someone died, a wake was held at which the living would speak to the dead, rather than, as we tend to, about them.  The goose bit is thought to be an American variation, maybe associated with the "goose pimples/bumps" we sometimes come out in when we shiver.

Rosemary

[CallieOK]

I'm chuckling at the posts about children wondering how we manage to stumble through our days.

Although I was a "stay-at-home Mom" (a term I heartily dislike!!!!), "everyone" knew I was active in the community as well as looking after my family.
Even so, when the first grandchild was born six weeks after my husband died, I was astounded at the number of people who automatically assumed I would move to the town where she lived and become the live-in Nanny.  My response was that she had two perfectly good parents and didn't need a third one.
 
A couple of years later, my bachelor son threatened to tie a bell on me so he could keep up with my whereabouts.  I told him I'd wear one if he would...end of conversation!  

Back to the book:    It seems to me that there is beginning to be a subtle shift in our characters' attitudes and behavior.  And now there's the Major's neighbor, Alice, entering into the mix.    
Hmmmm...

Am I the only one who was absolutely falling out of the chair with laughter at all the shenanigans during the duck hunt and the dance that completely disrupted the attempts to be Proper, Traditional - and Impressive?  What a delightful writer Helen Simonson is!

[BarbStAubrey]

Yes, I remember seeing a special about how a green glow would appear over a grave - something about the decomposing - and then I was amazed to read how folks set up their huts in cemeteries that later became more sturdy since they were safe there from armed conflict and animals roamed wild something about they could not be killed in cemeteries - the problem being animals sometimes unearthed the dead for supper - I need to find all that again -

Gives the idea of seeing movement and shadows in graveyards new meaning after I learned all that - As a Kid I visited the graveside of family that we just do not do any longer - between perpetual care and cremation it is not the same - back to being a kid in the graveyard and I remember my grandmother telling me not to walk on the grave plot that it brought bad luck and sure enough, when home usually around the table if we were chilled we were given a stern look that we must have walked on someone's grave.

Funny when I read "a goose walked over my grave" it registered as goose step and I quickly let it pass thinking it had something to do with WWII - with both the Major and his dad soldiers it seemed to vaguely fit. Where as it really says 'goose walk' and so I bet you are right about it being a reference to goose bumps.

Whee - you have the whole story now Frybabe - the end of this weeks read sure is a turning point for the Major isn't it - but this ball, dance, whatever - it something else again - the word I use to describe it is a Bacchanalia. I had to put the book down to enjoy parts of it and then the realization that the father's glory caused pain to the here to fore silent Pakistanis - oh dear, oh dear. That is when we realize how difficult life is because we see the world through our own values which filters what and how we see.

[Frybabe]

I could picture in my mind's eye the horrified little faces of the children when they witnessed "their" ducks being shot. How cruel for the children to have been allowed to raise the ducks only to see the results.

Again, the free-for-all at the dance - I can see the gaudy colors, the old man ranting, the fist fights, the dishes flying, etc. Yes, I can see why the old man was upset. It brought back memories of a horror no one, especially a child, could erase.

[CallieOK]

I am obviously not reading this book with the same mindset as the rest of you.

If you were inclined to respond to my last message - which I seriously doubt - please disregard it.
Thank you.

[BarbStAubrey]

Callie thanks so much for posting again - I completely missed your post - we must have been  posting at the same time this afternoon - and yes, what a hilarious bit the dance - oh oh oh -  you said it -

shenanigans during the duck hunt and the dance that completely disrupted the attempts to be Proper, Traditional

The Duck hunt had its funny moments as well but there are some in this discussion who do not see the humor because of the shooting and trying to be sensitive - we could go on and on and around and around on that how much better the shooting than how animals are slaughtered that we eat and buy at the super market - We are so used to our kids seeing animals dead on the road, hit by vehicles or shot by ranchers that we have a different perspective.

It is interesting that the telling of these two traumas are close to each other in the book - because the trauma to the children in Pakistan those many years ago was not considered when Kudos were given for the bravery to men like the Major's father - they say the victorious write the story - but then we do not eat each other so that trauma I see as painful - Since the children made pets of the ducks is what made it difficult but then we know that hours and hours put into raising an animal named as a pet for 4H that will be sold for slaughter. We still have 4H competition during the annual Spring Rodeo and so it could be Callie our ability to see the humor is because we see things differently than those who are not seeing how food is prepared for sale at the grocery store.

I know I am rather put out with newer neighbors who moved here by the droves from mostly California and they are trying to get rid of the deer that live in our neighborhood - they even secretly hired some folks to come in here at night to trap and shoot them using guns with silencers - it is the heavy handed way folks have of getting what they want that I think is what folks see in raising ducks for a Duck hunt.

But both stories have humor and Alice next door - you can just see her can't you with her banner and the villages confused by the hospitality of the very one they are protesting against. The dichotomy of these incidents is what makes the telling of this story so funny.

[Laura]

In this section of reading, there were points of hilarity, but also points of real sadness.  Here’s one example:

Hilarious --- “Roger and Sandy went to fetch their hamper and as the Major tried not to think of truffles, which he had always avoided because they stank like sweaty groins…”  (pg. 175)

Sadness --- “The truth was that now, without his wife to negotiate the space that they occupied as a family, he and Roger seemed to have little common ground.  If there had been no bond of blood, the Major felt now, he and Roger would have little reason to continue to know each other at all.  … it seemed very sad to be indifferent to one’s own son.”  (pg. 190)

The Major is becoming much more a part of Mrs. Ali’s world, from playing with George at the park and being upset that another boy was not allowed to play with George, to Mrs. Ali wanting the Major to speak to Abdul Wahid man to man.

As expected, the dance was quite an affair.  The Major and Mrs. Ali did get a lot of attention.  However, I expected the strains of the evening to bring them closer together, not to tear them apart!   

[BarbStAubrey]

Oh Laura truer words were never said - sad but so right - what I find sad is to see how different my children are from one another - they are nice to each other but distant because of those differences that include major political and religious differences - oh dear - all I know it is a delight to visit each since they each have something special that lifts me but I hate it that I cannot share with out frost the goings on of brother's family to sister's family and visa versa.

Sadness --- “The truth was that now, without his wife to negotiate the space that they occupied as a family, he and Roger seemed to have little common ground.  If there had been no bond of blood, the Major felt now, he and Roger would have little reason to continue to know each other at all.  … it seemed very sad to be indifferent to one’s own son.”  (pg. 190)

Haha and yes, my head went up on that one "sweaty groins" - Helen has more courage as a writer than I could imagine - that was funny.

[Steph]

The duck hunt distressed me. I grew up in the country and have cousins and friends who are all big duck and geese hunters, but they shoot wild ducks and geese. Never ever the situation described.. That is not hunting.. But the writing was excellent. I was shocked at how the situation deteriorated at the dance. I suspect it was all good intentions, but they do tend to get bad.. Still some was really funny, but not Mrs. Ali running away from the Major.. Poor Major.. blamed for others.

[JoanP]

Good morning, Steph - fellow early riser!

We're back from the Carolinas, Charlotte and Charleston - managed to skirt the storms that ripped through the South over the weekend.  Back home now, but with a full house - four grandchildren and two of my sons.  One leaves for London tomorrow night, but the little ones will be here until the end of the week as this is their spring break from school.  We have a busy agenda - and my attendance here will be sketchy - to say the least.  I expect they will all be up and ready to go very soon now. 

I've read quickly through yesterday's posts and love to read your changing impressions as you read on in the book!  Frybabe, you couldn't resist finishing. I knew that would happen!  Somehow, I've managed to hold off...and still can't tell how this is going to work out in the end.

 My impressilons keep changing - Bella, I'm interested to hear what you think of Sandy - and other characters  after reading the next section.
 You asked a question that never occurred to me - what does Roger see in Sandy?  I was wondering what she sees in him?  I'm seeing a change in Sandy - or maybe H.S. is simply revealing something that had been there all along.


  As Laura says, there were points of hilarity, but also points of real sadness.  Is this rare?  There is such a fine line between comedy and tragedy they say.  Helen Simonson seems to manage this with ease. Callie, you were not the only one "falling out of your chair laughing" - and probably laughing, knowing you were reading about something traumatic that was happening to those children.  How does Simonson manage this?


Rosemary, interesting information on the goose walking on the grave - an American variation, huh?  Interesting to remember that our author is from Sussex, now living her in the Washington DC Metro area.  (May 5  she is coming  to Arlington for a signing.  You bet I'll be there.)  Does anyone know how long she has lived in the U.S.?

ps - rosemary,  I still do talk to the dead.

I'll be back this evening to read more - but don't expect coherence of any kind!

[rosemarykaye]

Joan - I believe she has lived in the US for a long time - her website says "over 20 years"

Rosemary

[CallieOK]

Quote on "Major Pettigrew from Helen Simonson's web site ..."

I should add that I hope you’ll find the book funny and that you’ll enjoy the Major’s values and character. I believe he might remind us all that the world is what we make of it

I had not read this until this morning so it had not influenced my finding the humor in various situations instead of focusing on the "social issues".

BTW, the children were not supposed to be at the Duck Shoot.   Quoting, "I'm giving them a trip to the bowling alley and an ice cream party on the pier", said Dagenham. "What on earth do they have to be upset about?"
Had the activist adults not intervened, they wouldn't have witnessed the massacre of their pets.

I'm not offering an opinion of this sort of thing - just commenting.

[Gumtree]

I've been up and down with a virus for the last week and just caught up the posts...

Callie : You're not alone - I find the book hilarious in parts, but sad in others and at times downright annoying - well, the characters and their actions are - especially in the toffee nosed attitudes some have towards Mrs Ali.

Mrs Ali is still just too perfect. I keep trying to remember that we are seeing all this through the Major's perspective and he's certainly wearing his rose-tinted glasses when he looks at Mrs Ali. He should put them on sometimes when he's looking at Roger who seems to be continually striving for his father's approval and when he doesn't get it he abruptly goes his own way.

Can't make up my mind about Sandy but I have the feeling she is not all bad either though if Roger really is as self centred and thoughtless as he's made to appear by the Major then one wonders why any women would be bothered with him.

Young George is great and Amina knows what she wants - I hope it's the right thing for her as well as her son.

The golfing buddy Alec? is a perfect foil for the Major. Odd how different types often become inseparable. The Major loves formality and is set in his ways whilst Alec is more relaxed and freer in his attitudes. Not that the Major and Alec are inseparable but they are long time friends and golfing buddies so they've been through a bit together.

The church & golf club ladies are fun - stereotypes perhaps. At first they were a blur - all cut from the same cloth - but now their individuality is beginning to appear and one can tell one from the other. I was intrigued by their names - Daisy, Alma, Grace and of course Alice next door. All named for a reason no doubt though the names seem slightly old fashioned for those born say during the late 1930s or early 40s which was a time for Barbara and Patricia et al although the names chosen are  always in use.

sorry, I'm rambling

JoanP Thanks for managing that online interview with HS - such excellent insights and what a coup to have her come back again when we reach the end.

[BarbStAubrey]

JoanP with a house full of family this time of year when it is not yet too hot - what fun...I bet the kitchen gets a good workout.

Rosemary do you remember where in Britain Helen lived before she came to the States? I wonder why the big move.

Callie did you get a kick out of imagining the scene where the Major and Morris are trying to stop the shooting when the protesters took to the field - amidst all the commotion is Alice Pierce giving off a cry of rage and she "threw herself on the young man like a woolly boulder" while the adults "chasing farm youths, jabbing about their signs like pitchforks." and the banker who says, "Maybe we should just shoot them," what a hoo-ha - the slogans on the signs were precious - how much fun that would be to see on film - this story is a movie waiting to happen.

Ouch Gumtree - hope you are feeling better - no way to start the cold weather months is it - I love your expression "the toffee nosed attitudes"  Mrs. Ali shows she knows she is not part of the 'ladies' but the sentence from the Major I thought was wonderful -  "Then don't make me go in  there alone, like a spare part,"  followed up by the most gallant Edwardian statement -  "When they hand me my silver plate, I want to walk back and sit with the most elegant woman in the room."  Oh my, and then look at how frozen he was on the stairs when Mrs. Ali left the dance mumbling in his head something about guns.

[pedln]

Oh gosh, it is a horrible scene, the poor children so upset about the ducks being shot, but you have to laugh too because it almost comes across as a comedy of errors, like trying to corral a wild herd that has gone off in all directions.

Lord D, "I'll have you brought up on negligence charges for letting innocent children join in such a riot"

"Negligence?," said Alice. "You shot at them."

"We didn't shoot at them, woman, they ran into the guns."

Someone asked what Roger saw in Sandy.  He'd never admit it, but I think he knows that Sandy is smarter than he is about the ways of smart business people.  She genuinely enjoys people and they like her.  She's a good negotiator.  As for what she sees -- it's not really a fair trade off, and you see her tightening the reins on him from time to time.

Poor Abdul Wahid.  I find my feelings about him changing. He may not be the most personable guy around, but  he is trying so hard to be a man of honor, a good son, and do the right thing.

[JoanP]

Gum, hope you are fully recovered - We miss your frankness.  Yes, some of the characters are "downright annoying."  Do you think Helen S. intended them to annoy us?
The only type woman who would be interested in Roger  would be one who shared his same ambition.  They would be using one another.  They would ask of their relationship - "What does love have to do with it?"  So at this point, Sandy should be revelling in Roger's success, don't you think?  Does anyone LIKE Roger?  I can't help but wonder if his own mother liked him much.  What does that say about a person?  But Pedln points out that people DO like Sandy.  She seems interested in other people.  Is she changing since we first met her?  Or is H.S. peeling off layers that begin to reveal the real person underneath her veneer?  Don't you find Roger to be the most complicated in this cast of characters?  

Callie - it is interesting to note that the author intended this to be a funny story ...   Because her writing is bringing out such a strong response from her readers on social issues and values.  It IS great that she is coming back to talk about her book.  Is it time to start gathering a list of questions for her?  (Not about the ending itself yet, as there are still some of us who haven't finished... ) Is there something you would like to ask her?  
Barbara, I think that she mentioned returning to her "beloved Sussex" in a previous interview.  I believe she is writing from her own memory here when describing Sussex...

[JoanP]

"When we pick and choose around the rules, we discover later we have  set aside something precious in the process."  

What do You think of this statement?  Are you one who picks and chooses around the rules?  This is the one thought I can't seem to shake while considering these chapters?  There are several characters in these chapters who may have said this. Do you remember who it was?  What is Helen S. saying about this in her story?

[Steph]

The book is such a lovely mix of fun and sadness.. joy and misunderestandings.. Roger baffles me.. He seems to have no social manners at all. Like an infant.. I want it,, gimme..Oh well. Sandy does however seem to be shaping up nicely.. Maybe she can change him as well.

[bellamarie]

Good morning ladies and gents if I missed you,  I am packing to leave to spend a couple days a Great Wolf Lodge an indoor waterpark with my son's family and taking my two grndsons (3 & 9) with me since my other son is unable to get off work and his wife is staying home with the 4 week old baby.  It ought to prove to be a funfilled, exhausting two days, so wish me luck!

I have not yet gotten to the dance, but I can tell by some of your posts it turns out to be just what I was expecting.  I sensed from the planning stages this would have the unexpected mish mosh going on.  I can't wait to read it, I shall try on my drive to GWL if my 3 yr old grnd son Zak allows me to concentrate long enough in the car.  

I found it very interesting how Mrs. Ali and her nephew now are dealing with his son George.  Family shame seems to be their concern, yet this book is taking place in the recent years which as it is mentioned so much of the shame of out of wedlock children are socially accepted.  Mrs. Ali sure has taken an instant liking/love to George.

Callie~I am enjoying the humor and laughing out loud.  I also had to giggle when I read your part about the cow bell.  Great response "If he wears one too."  My kids all seem to think I am the decision maker and always have been.  I do have a bit of a strong will and independent personality.  I sense if and when I should be a widow they will feel I am perfectly capable of taking care of myself.  Then is when I suspect I would welcome their input.  Just not to the point of not allowing me to remain independent.  lol

H. S.  has done a marvelous job in writing a book that allows the reader to relate to all the characters good/bad.  She has a writing style like no one I have ever read.  This book is just what I needed and I hope it doesn't disappoint me in the end because I am wondering what Roger and Sandy's motives are for all of a sudden deciding to become close to the Major.  

Okay, one more time I am going to ask, why didn't the Major seem more interested in the gun once he finally had it in his possession?  I am sensing just getting the gun was more important to him then the gun itself.  Having the gun may be his rite to passage.  He seems to have this idea because he was the first born he had the rite to the gun.  I am second to the youngest of seven children and I can tell you throughout my years nothing bothered me more than to hear my oldest sisters say, "We should go from the oldest down."  Seems this is how the Major has lived his life.  A bit selfish and arrogant if I say so.  The Major gives the impression it bothers him that others find the pair of guns nothing more than a means to money, yet he seems to be wanting the pair to show off to his hunting buddies.  When it comes right down to it, I don't think the guns have any value emotionally to anyone.  His brother was not even inclined to make certain their was a clause for the gun to go directly back to the Major if and when he died before him.  

I do like the Major and feel other than his actions about the gun, up to this point he seems so caring.  I sense he and Mrs. Ali will end up together, they compliment each other and share so much in common for spending their later years in life together.  Alice is he silly neighbor everyone seems to have and a bit eccentric with her staking out in the bushes.  lolol  

Okay gotta run but will check in soon.  Off to finish packing and hope to succeed reading the next chapters to enjoy the hullabaloo of the ball....as it seems the posts tempt me I am in for a treat.

Ciao for now~

[serenesheila]

Well, I have finished the book, for the second time.  I am having a problem, though.  As soon as I finish a section, I realize that I cannot remember what I have read.  Do any of you find that happens for you?

The duck hunk seemed upsetting to me.  I do not understand how grown ups can enjoy shooting ducks that were raised just to be shot and killed.  But, then, I cannot understand anyone loving guns!  I am glad that none of the children was injured, or killed!

I think that both Sandy, and Roger, are quite self centered, and money/status wannabes.  I find myself wondering how Roger could have turned out the way he has, after being raised by his mother, Nancy.  From everything the Major has said, or thought about Nancy, she seems  to have been a great wife, and mother.  As loving as she sounds, why didn't Roger develop consideration, and love of others?  I think there might be some hope for Sandy.

I love the section about the appearance of both the Major and Mrs. Ali.  I was apprehensive about their welcome.  It sounds at the time they arrive at the dance, that it will be a magical evening.  I know that the Major did not follow her when she left, because he did not want the other attendees, to realize that he and Mrs. A, were a couple.  Fear about what will others think?  I am disappointed in him.


Sheila

[BarbStAubrey]

bellamarie hope you enjoy your outing with your family -  sounds like you have a full day or so ahead of you - interesting isn't it how by chance memories are made - you know they will remember it was Grandma that they were with at the Great Wolf Lodge.  Cannot wait till you can share your experience reading about the dance - sounds like you have had a few moments where the story made you question and consider - nothing does settle down with that second gun does it - As  you say,  the Major gets it in shape but then, it is like until he has a legal OK the gun is not his to pour over. Also, what do you think - I think he is pulled by the realization he will not be around forever and sooner or later the guns will be sold to benefit Roger and Jemima's bank account which makes the guns represent money rather than family pride and  tradition.

Twice Sheila - wow - how many books have your ever read twice - but it is full to the brim isn't it for such a current and simple story there is a lot packed into these pages - Did y'all see that one of the books read last year, The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society made it to Cliffnotes, which says it will be around for awhile and may even be read in schools - I wonder if that will be the future for  Major Pettigrew's Last Stand...

Roger does seem all over the place isn't he - he acts more to me like someone looking for approval from everyone and anyone - I wonder if that is what  happens when a boy grows into a man and does not feel he has his father's approval -  it is not that the Major disapproves openly but he certainly judges Roger as wanting. I doubt if that is a new mannerism on the part of the Major so that it could be he left childrearing to Nancy and being away in the army he never really connected or, as they say today, bonded with his son.

Although, I must say I see more young men like Roger and I cannot imagine they were all brought up with distant fathers. Maybe there is a challenge for men to know their value and place in such a fast changing world so that they too are caught between tradition and this fast moving open way of life where anyone with an idea and willing to risk can make tons of money. Being on the cusp of this new freedom leaves us feeling insecure with no road-map.  

In fact, that is part of what I saw in the Major's 'fear about what will others think?" when he stopped and didn't take Mrs. Ali home - The others represent tradition, the life he has been comfortable living where as following Mrs. Ali is new, with no road-map, scary, he would have to carve out a new identity for himself.  He is not a teenager who has time to make many mistakes and hanging on to what is traditional is security. Mrs. Ali represents so much -  even happiness that he has to accept because with so many reference to Nancy it seems he has been existing on creating order within the traditions with friends he knows and depended on to see him through life after the death of Nancy and now, he could choose to make a new life - again scary.  

Maybe that is the difference between father and son - I am talking out loud here as this thought just popped into my head - Roger did not have a pivotal moment where he saw possibilities - it has been a daily part of his young adult life - wait a minute that could be it -  Sandy is easily able to dance with non-traditional life style choices - we in the States are not as tied to 'tradition' and as a successful business women she was part of a non-traditional ladder of opportunity so, she had to learn how to maneuver without a road-map. As pedln said in her post, "he knows that Sandy is smarter than he is about the ways of smart business people." Looks like that is what Roger instinctively sees in Sandy.

Gives a new significance to the purchase of  the cottage  - to Sandy it was probably an investment in charm and in Roger. Where as, Roger needs to fill his childhood memories, represented by the cottage with the newest and latest. He is not yet at ease and certainly his father is no help towards his living a successful life based in freedom where the measure is money   And then, we see Roger supporting his father's ownership of the guns and Roger takes on proudly the role of his Grandfather in the play so that he has a foot in both worlds with an affiliation for family tradition.    

OK Sheila, you and others may have other points of view but your observation started me on a whole new way of looking at one of the issues being explored in this story.  We hear so much about the Arab world having to face modernity and here this story shows  us how much we are all attached to our traditions.      

[Laura]

Ah ha!  Found it!
"When we pick and choose around the rules, we discover later we have set aside something precious in the process."
Abdul Wahid said this on page 181.
I think he was thinking of his own life when he made this statement.  He discovered that he has a son, a result of a relationship that his family did not approve of.  He ignored the family’s opinion by dating someone they did not like.  However, but picking and choosing among he rules, or in his case, not following the advice of his family, he finds himself in a moral dilemma --- how to balance the obligation of having and properly raising a son with the approval of his family.  I think he has set aside two precious people, his lover and his son.  I don’t think there is a way to make everyone happy.

[Laura]

Bellamarie asked, “Why didn't the Major seem more interested in the gun once he finally had it in his possession?”

I think the Major was so relieved once he had the gun in his possession that it didn’t constantly occupy his thoughts --- wondering how he was going to get it back, wondering what was going to happen to it, wondering if he would he be tricked into selling the gun in his possession.  It seems to me that because the book is so much an inner dialogue of the Major’s, that once he could relax about the gun and not constantly worry about it, it disappeared from the story too.  I don’t take its lack of mention as a lack of interest, but as a sense of relief that it wasn’t something to worry about anymore.

[Laura]

Barbara said, “Gives a new significance to the purchase of  the cottage  - to Sandy it was probably an investment in charm and in Roger. Where as, Roger needs to fill his childhood memories, represented by the cottage with the newest and latest”

I think the cottage does represent two entirely different things to Sandy and Roger, as you say.  I think Sandy genuinely wants a place to retreat and spend time with Roger.  In that sense, it is an investment in their relationship together.  However, I don’t think Roger takes the same view at all.  I think Roger views the cottage as an investment in a business sense, as a status symbol, a means to an end of future business connections and future wealth.

[BarbStAubrey]

Great Laura - ta da - 3 ringers - great find on the quote and the realization of its meaning - golly this book offers much to think on.- another point of view why the Major is not as obsessed with the second gun after it is in his possession - and yep, Roger sees the financial benefit buying cheap and owning the cottage in such a good appreciating market -

I'm seeing from this story what we value even in the states changing from the concept that to be rich meant more than having healthy sell-able investments - I see it as many of us downsize hoping to pass along our good silver, crystal and china but the younger generation does not want them - they no longer entertain that way and so we see full silver Tea Services that may have been our mother's in garage sales for $35. and Lenox for 12 selling  pennies on the dollar where as other things have increased in value because of collectors, like the guns, the idea of cashing out family history is changing what identifies wealth.  That idea may be better seen with the guns - but it is amusing the 'things' with which Roger chooses to decorate the cottage..

I wonder does it take seeing a women vulnerable in order for her to be like-able - while Sandy was described as the successful business women we were not sure we liked her but seeing her in tears, alone our opinion changes.