Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1

[Simonson]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome to join in.

Major Pettigrew's Last Stand  by Helen Simonson

April Book Club Online  

"When Major Pettigrew, a retired British army major in a small English village, embarks on an unexpected friendship with the widowed Mrs. Ali, who runs the local shop, trouble erupts to disturb the bucolic serenity of the village and of the Major’s carefully regimented life.   "As the Major and Mrs. Ali discover just how much they have in common, including an educated background and a shared love of books, they must struggle to understand what it means to belong and how far the obligations of family and tradition can be set aside for personal freedom. Meanwhile, the village itself, lost in its petty prejudices and traditions, may not see its own destruction coming."  New York Times   (best seller) "...a wry and witty love story set in a little English village where small town prejudices, and race and religious intolerances are alive and well. With gentle insight, the author captures the thrill of falling in love after 60 and the disruption romance can introduce into a well-settled life."

Discussion Schedule:

April 1-7 ~ Chapters 1-6]
April 8 - April 15 ~ Chapters 7-12

(E-readers ~ Last lines in Chapter 12:
 ..."he could not help but register a certain sense of exhilaration at having thrust himself into the heart of Mrs. Ali's life in such an extraordinary manner.  He was tempted to celebrate his own boldness with a large glass of Scotch."

*****

Some Topics for Consideration
April 8-15 ~ Chapters 7-12

1. The two  guns look nothing  like a pair."   What does the condition of Bertie's gun say about what they meant to him?  Would you say that Bertie and the Major's son, Roger,  share the same disregard for the history of the Churchills?

2. Is it accurate to say that Mrs. Ali  admires the Major's "Englishness," his house, his books, while he admires her for herself, apart from her Pakistani heritage?

3.  "One begins to accept, at a certain age, that one has already made all the friends to which one is entitled."  Do you find this to be true?  Can you share examples of the grief and loneliness that seem to permeate these pages?  

4. How many times have you noticed the Major unfavorably comparing Grace with Mrs. Ali?   Why is Mrs. Ali happy to have been asked to help with the dance at the club?  Why does this upset the Major?

5.  Why does the Major feel sorry for the doctor's wife, Saadia Khan?  Did you feel any sympathy towards her?  What moved the Major to invite Mrs. Ali to attend the dance as his guest?

6.  Is Mrs. Augerspier sharper than she appears to be - or is she another old woman about to be taken advantage of by the younger man?  Do you have any idea why Roger is interested in this house or the furniture?

7. What has caused  the ladies to change the theme of the dance from the Mughal to the Maharajah to focus  on the Major's father's service in India? What do you think of Roger in the role of Colonel Pettigrew?

8.  How will the Major adapt to the changes that are coming to the undisturbed peace of the village? Do you see a change in him already?  How does  Amina's appearance on the scene signal change?  

Related Links:
SeniorLearn Readers' Interview with Helen Simonson, Part 1;
 SeniorLearn's Questions for Helen Simonson;    NPR's Interview with the Author;  Churchill Rifles - "World's Finest" ;    Churchill Method: Rules of Shooting;

  

 Discussion Leaders:  Barbara & JoanP

At one point my wonderful editor said that my metaphors were so beautiful...that I should really limit them to one per page!  I tend towards wordiness and I delight in language and in finding new images to describe things.  It's very English to steep oneself in language and back home all sorts of people delight in long words.  In the USA we are Hemingway-direct and prefer the simple approach often.  In the UK I fear we are all Mr. Pickwick at heart!

[CallieOK]

 Hello from Oklahoma.

Have you personally discovered big differences between your age group and the Major's age group?

I am 75 and I think there are more differences between my age group and yours than there ever were between my age group and the one 20 years older.

[JoanP]

Please readers, feel free to ask your questions as Callie did.   As you can see, Helen is quick to answer questions.

One of our readers, who I know is here right now, asked this question earlier about the amount of research that went into this book -
 
Did you have to do much research for your book -- about the guns, and the Mughal Empire, etc.? How long did you work on the book from the first inspiration, to the publishing?

[Simonson]

No I am not 'qualified' to write about Pakistani heritage from any first hand knowledge - but I write to ask myself questions and to explore what I do not know.  I did a lot of research - from academic studies on chain migration to message boards of young Pakistani people in the UK - and I was pleased to find that families are mainly the same the world over.  We all have mother-in-law issues or funny aunts or long-winded siblings, don't we?  We have more that unites us than we know,  and a conservative Muslim family may have more in common with an evangelist Christian family than with,say, a liberal New York family of no religious background.

[JoanP]

May I ask from which side of the Atlantic did your wonderful editor tell you to limit your metaphors?  I loved them. 

[pedln]

and then start taking them apart layer, by layer to show their individuality and also life in contemporary England.

I love this statement of yours, and I think that is one of the outstanding features of your book.


Please answer this only if you have time.

I recently read, and found most interesting, your review of Paula McLain’s The Paris Wife.  Are there any writers, not necessarily whom you would like to emulate, but whose particular style you admire?

[Simonson]

On the topic of age.  I feel I stand on the ridge of a hill and can see back to my twenties and forward to the days when I shall receive my meals-on-wheels and order my books in large print from the library.  I may know more as I age, but I am the same person as well.  I am Helen the small child, the awkward teen, the mother - and I can see me really working on being fit enough to keep traveling.  I do have experience working with frail elder adults and I can tell you, they always felt perfectly young - only sometimes the body betrayed them and other people thought them invisible.  I hope I could sit and have a lovely chat with you at 75.  I know we'd have more to talk about than I do with my sons - who are monosyllabic teens right now!

[Simonson]

Boy - this is hard work.  My fingers hurt from the fast typing!!!

[Simonson]

My favorite author is Edith Wharton.  I also admire Somerset Maugham and I love Toni Morrison, Barbara Kingsolver, David Mitchell, Ian McEwan...the list goes on.  What I loved about the "Paris Wife" was that I am usually very hard on unfaithful men, but this book made me see that Hadley made her own bed when she married Hemingway.  She knew it, she had her own reasons to take the bargain - and then she made the classic mistake of wanting to change Hemingway into a suburban dad.  By the end, I could not find where my loyalties should lie and I thought that masterful.

[CallieOK]

Unfortunately, I must leave for a while. 

Thank you, Helen, for coming in to visit with us.  I look forward to reading all the comments.

Having grown up in a town of 3,000 dear souls and having lived in several others during my adult years,  I always enjoy reading about life in English villages where the same attitudes prevail - but seem so much more charming.

....and I LOVE the metaphors and the Major's "mental" observations and comments! 

[JoanP]

See you later, Callie -

Time flies when you are having a good time!  Don't know how much time you have left, Helen, but will try to squeeze in a few more questions from the end of the list...

 Do Edgecombe St. Mary and Hazelbourne-on-the-Sea really exist or are they purely fictitious?

Can you tell us the reason Frank Ferguson refers to Lord Dagenham as "Double D"? Are these his initials?

Where had the Major served when in the military? And secondly "did his military service influence his personality?"

How long must we wait for your next book? I am a "forever fan" of yours, until my life runs out!

[Simonson]

I love research.  I can not believe that the New York Public Library and the Library of Congress will give me a photo ID and let me use their marble halls, oak desks and the services of library personnel.  Librarians fetch your books!  In London, the British Library Colindale (for newspapers) will hold your laptop while you go to lunch!  This is the epitome of enlightened society - that we the people own and have access to these mansions of learning.  What a privilege!

[JudeS]

Hele
When you thought of the major as your protagonist did he come full blown into your mind or did you  discover him layer by layer?

[Simonson]

The towns are fictitious amalgamations of places I know and love.  Yes, Dagenham's initials are DD and his aristocratic-sounding name is the name of an English industrial town where they make cars! 

[Simonson]

It turns out that if I have a 'gift' or more likely a small 'window' into the writing process it is that characters present themselves to me, coats on, handbags on the elbow, waving a bus ticket and demanding that I accompany them somewhere they need to be.  I do not outline or know where I'm going - I only catch a glimpse of someone turning a street corner and hurry after them. 

[pedln]

Helen, thank you so much for spending time with us.  Your book is definitely one of my favorites and I’m looking forward to your next one.   I’ll be forever grateful to my daughter-in-law Emily for letting me carry her signed copy from Bethesda to Missouri.

Thanks again, and good luck.

[Simonson]

The Major participated in the British army's "Small Wars" as one web site calls the post world war II era.  There were many 'police actions' and so on to places like Aiden, Suez and they are largely forgotten.  The USA has also experienced this diminution of respect for some conflicts over others.  People do not remember Korea like they now acknowledge Vietnam (I think???).  The Major was very much an 'information' man and an army bureaucrat and I wrote lots of back story in which he saved men and resources through efficient filing systems.  Alas such back story can weigh down a tale and I dropped most of it. 

[Simonson]

I'll be around in early May and can drop by again.  Any excuse to turn away from the novel writing!  Seriously, thanks for having me and I'd love to check in when you've all finished the book.  Goodbye for now.  Helen Simonson

[JoanP]

You have already been so generous with your time.  Can you possibly be working on your next book while raising two teenage sons, book tours etc.  I felt guilty  asking you for more.  But I thought I'd ask anyway...since this is an unusual situation.  How many book groups do you speak to - who have only read half of your book?   There have been several who have questions concerning the end of the book.  Thank you so much for offering to  drop in again now that you have found us.

Thank you, Helen!  Have a good trip!

[JoanP]

Phew!  That was fast and furious.  Helen types fast!  How wonderful to know that she will return in early May.  We can get started on a  list of questions for then now.  Will include your questions on the new list, Laura's on the stereotyping and Sheila's on her next book.   That was fun...fast-paced, but fun. Never did anything like this before.

Shall we get back to the tasting party at the Taj Mahal Take Out.  Poor Grace.  She is totally out of her element...

[pedln]

A very successful event, JoanP.

Before I forget about it, when HS was talking about Lord Dagenham, she mentioned that it was the name of a town where cars were made.  There's a fairly recent film (comedy) out -- Made in Dagenham -- about a strike in 1968 by women protesting their pay and treatment.  I had heard about it somewhere, but had forgotten about it until HS mentioned it.  Now on the Netflix queue.

[Frybabe]

Sorry I had to miss the fun - classes this morning, and then the water people came to establish that, yes, there is still a leak. It appear that when they "fixed" the pipe the other day they self-inflicted another one.

[JoanP]

Frybabe, it was fun, somewhat hectic but at least we know now that we can conduct a "live" interview in this format.  A lot of things we've learned that I think will influence how we react to the rest of the book.  And the wonderful news - our Helen Simonson will return at the end of the discussion.  Laura will be glad to hear about that.  Certainly we can get into the stereotype questions.

What did you think of  the scene in the Taj Mahal Take Out?  Wasn't it wonderful?  The two elderly Rasools, sitting there looking grim - and disapproving.  Not a word of English. Were they the owners?  Their son invites the Major and the women to have a seat with them.  They aren't happy about this.  Neither is Mrs. Rasool.  You'd think they'd be happy for the business, but obviously they are not.  Maybe they're just trying to figure out the purpose of the visit.  The whole tasting and sampling goes on as the elderly Rasools sit and watch.  I think it is understandable that they are puzzled, don't you?

Not sure what to think of Dr. Khan's wife, Saadia.  Clearly she is well off and yet she's angling for a step up the social ladder in the town.   Did you notice her attitude towards "Jasmina"?

  What exactly does stereotyping mean to you?  I'm wondering whether you consider any of these people stereotypes?

[Steph]

Just a marker.. I have read part of the interview, but am running out of time.. Back soon.

[JoanP]

Good morning, Steph-

Marcie fixed a nice interview page - Interview is now all in one place.   Will keep it in the heading, plus we'll start a new page of questions for our next interview with Helen S. when the discussion is over... SeniorLearn Readers' Interview with Helen Simonson, April 11, 2011

Back in a bit...

[Laura]

I am thrilled our author will be back with us for the “end of the book” questions!

Meanwhile, to the scene at the Taj Mahal Palace…

This was one of my favorite chapters!  I relished what was not said even more than what was said. 

I also noted the contrasts…
First, the contrasts in color between Grace, who would have been “invisible in any mildly wet woodland,” with her tweeds, and Mrs. Rasool in her bright mustard colored outfit in the restaurant with the orange walls.
Second, the contrasts in the food, from goat gosht to the “more popular alternative” of Yorkshire pudding, from the rasmalai to the trifle for dessert, and the different reactions of Grace and the Major to the food.

I felt a bit badly for Mrs. Khan.  She was dressed like Grace, but Grace didn’t seem to accept her as part of the same group as she herself belonged to, yet Mrs. Khan didn’t seem to want to be part of the same group as Mrs. Ali either.  Mrs. Khan is a person stuck between two worlds.

[Frybabe]

I am of two minds regarding Mrs. Khan. Is she a social climber, or she just very badly want to fit in?

[JoanP]

If she wants to fit in, I guess that's understandable.  Doesn't everyone?  Look how Mrs. Ali lights up when Grace asks her to tea.

You know, those ladies of the club are not all that high on the social ladder, are they?  I don't know that Saadia Khan is beneath any of them.  I'll say she just wants to belong?  Grace stares at her, wondering why she has never heard of her.  Is Dr. Khan a member of the club?  Or no?  Does his wife want to be in this club, or does she want her husband to be a member?

Her husband, a doctor at the local hospital,  is not the stereotype of the foreigner, is he?  I remember when the Vietnamese first came here - back in the 70's.  They couldn't practice what they were trained for.  Rather, they took unskilled jobs - anything to get an education for their children.  Top students Music lessons, the works.  I remember one girl in my son's class won the Spelling Bee for Arlington County - after learning English only two years before!  If there was a stereotype, this was it!  These kids did not want to fit in to any group - they wanted to excel.

Laura describes Mrs. Khan as someone "stuck between two worlds."  Is that how most foreigners in a new world feel.  I'm still struggling with the whole idea of stereotyping.  What exactly is it?  Is it reaching certain conclusions about a group of individuals and deciding that all of that ethnic group must be the same?

[rosemarykaye]

IMO Mrs Khan is a complete social climber.  She looks down on Mrs Ali.  She looks down on the less elevated Brits. Her husband has made a lot of money and she wants the status she feels should go with that.  I have had clients like her (not Asian, white Scottish, but with similar attitudes).   When the husband has made money, the wife almost inevitably seems to take on all sorts of airs and graces, whilst the husband, in my limited experience, stays relatively normal.

Rosemary

[Steph]

Finally back at last.. I agree with Rosemary.. Social climber to the core. Mrs. Ali does not seem to care, but does feel so obligated to her husbands family.. I find myself mentally trying to push her into more independence. Silly, but the characters ring so true, that I want to meet all of them.

[pedln]

It will be interesting to see what they have to eat at the dance.  I love this bit .   .   .

"Anyone who doesn't find this food delicious is a fool, " said the Major.  "However,.  . . "

"However, it is not foolproof, so to speak,"  Mrs. Rasool asked.

Mrs. Kahn may not be the most likeable character, but even  bad guys have feelings, and there is no doubt some angst on her part that her husband, and she, as his wife, are denied access to what would come easily to other persons.  That hurts.  I remember when my childhood next door neighbor Margie was having a birthday party, and Doris, who lived down the street was not invited. "My mother said there was not room at the table," said Margie. Several months later a group of us little girls were headed to Doris' house after school for ice cream and cake. As we gathered around the back door, waiting to enter, Doris' mother said, "I'm sorry Margie, there's no room at the table here. No room for Doris at Margie's party, no rooom for Margie at Doris' party."  Don't know if that fits our discussion, but I often think of that experience whenever stereotyping and discrimination comes up.

[Steph]

The food discussion in the book for the party is wonderful.. Two generations, two entirely different ideas on food..
Discrimination is a t wo edged sword.. I suspect that the Pakistani community has affairs as well.. I know here in central Florida, we have any number of Puerto Rican festivities and even a parade or two.. All can go,, so are the oriental parades and at least one Muslim festival. We also have a Zora Neal Hurston festival.Each are mostly attended by members of the ethnic or cultural group, but all are welcome.

[JoanP]

It seems that the ladies have decided they want this Mughal themed dance, complete with authentic food, dance, music - but Grace is deciding that everything presented is too "foreign" and unfamiliar, and so she settles on the more western options.  I'd been thinking the Major was super critical of Grace in previous chapters, but he seemed to agree with her on most of the plans - the food, cease with the sitar music...

I'm not sure which of the ladies, Sadie Khan OR Amina had the bigger impact on the story...but they both enter during this lunch - attended by the Major, Mrs. Ali, Grace... This has to be one of the best scenes .

Grace is pleased with Mrs. Khaan's offer to supply wall hangings, table coverings, runners.  Mrs. Khan is happy because she has got one foot inside the door of social acceptance.  What did Mrs. Ali get out of attendance at the meeting in the Taj Mahal Takeout?

I think the three of them,  Grace, Mrs. Ali and the Major make a funny threesome.  Somewhere earlier in the book, I remember reading  of three swans (they usually swim in pairs).     

[pedln]

During Monday’s visit when asked about her use of metaphors Helen Simonson  responded 

“At one point my wonderful editor said that my metaphors were so beautiful...that I should really limit them to one per page!  I tend towards wordiness and I delight in language and in finding new images to describe things.”

In his NY Times column today David Brooks has much to say about metaphors.

In his fine new book, “I Is an Other,” James Geary reports on linguistic research suggesting that people use a metaphor every 10 to 25 words. Metaphors are not rhetorical frills at the edge of how we think, Geary writes. They are at the very heart of it.

Brooks then describes how we use metaphors in various fields, food, religion, science, etc before concluding.  The link to the article  is below.

Most important, being aware of metaphors reminds you of the central role that poetic skills play in our thought. If much of our thinking is shaped and driven by metaphor, then the skilled thinker will be able to recognize patterns, blend patterns, apprehend the relationships and pursue unexpected likenesses.

Metaphors -- Poetry for Everyday Life

[Steph]

I loved the lunch scenes. I can just see the older parents insisting on a version of their food and the visiters struggling with them.. Everyone loves to eat a little ethnic, but not totally..
I know in Great Britain, curry shops are everywhere. Sort of like our Pizza places.

[maryz]

We're back in town, and I want to read from here.  I don't know if I will be able to read all of the posts, though.

[BarbStAubrey]

Wheee marvelous confab with Helen Simonson - Just wonderful JoanP - just wonderful - her fingers were sore form typing so fast - precious - thank  you JoanP for asking the questions that we left for Helen - I was thrilled to see the answer to the development of the Major and those guns - who would have guessed it was a chance meeting with a neighbor - have to re-read again the contact - but someone whose brother had moved to Australia with the second gun from a set.

Oh and JoanP you were 'right' the double D was because of his name - now I have to re-read closer to find where his first name is mentioned - I have not read all the posts yet...just peeked in here - I am dead on  my feet - I need a shower, a bowl of soup and an early appointment with my pillow and I will be back in the morning - JoanP I feel funny saying thanks but really thanks - funny, in that we were a team but boy did you come through - and then to read Helen Simonson will look in again when we have completed the book - wow! It does not get any better. You did it!

A personal note - difficult - not sure where we are with my sister - my other sister who is much younger relieved me but she can only stay till next Monday - one foot in front of the other - what will be will be---

[rosemarykaye]

Great to see you back safely Barb - hope you had a good sleep, and look forward to reading your comments when you wake up!

And very best wishes re your sister too.

Rosemary

[Steph]

Me too, Barb.. I am sorry and will hold out the very best wishes for your sister. I did finish the Major and adored it.. Ending and all.. I will not fink ontelling ahead though.

[JoanP]

Good morning, Barbara!  I'm hoping you had a good deep sleep in your own bed.  We're happy to have you back with us for however long you can stay.  Thoughts and prayers for you and for your sister.  What a blessing for her to have sisters  like you.

Maryz - welcome back!  Jump right in with us now...without reading back posts, but do read Helen Simonson's response to our questions.  You'll find a link to our interview with her in the heading on this page under Related Links.
Her responses add another layer of understanding and appreciation for her book.  She refers to her "beloved Sussex."  She's writing from memory of her childhood home, perhaps,  when she describes the Major's home - "a real Sussex cottage with a white-boarded front and lots of windows looking out on a garden."

Tomorrow we will move on to Chapters 13 - 17 --  We are approaching the much-anticipated scene - the club dance.
I'm not exactly sure how the decision came about to change the theme from the Mughal Empire of the 18th century, to the Maharajah at the time of the Partition in the 20th century.  I don't believe the ladies came up with this themselves.  I suspect  but am not certain that there was outside influence ...  What is your understanding of how this came about?

And how about that gallant Major?  All he wants are those quiet moments with Mrs. Ali, talking of Kipling.  I'm quite sure he didn't want to put Mrs. Ali into  an embarrassing situation by inviting her to the dance, but she already became involved with the planning.  When he saw the dismay on her face - when she realized that the ladies were interested only in having her work the dance as a hat check girl, he did the only thing a gentleman could do...How did Grace react to this?  Do you remember?

I'm really looking forward to the next section!