Hobbit, The by J.R.R. Tolkien Book & Film ~ November/December Book Club Online

[PatH]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

 November Book Club Online

The Hobbit turns 75 this fall, an occasion likely to cause many thousands of people to reflect with fondness on their childhood memories of the adventures of Bilbo Baggins. Though a much loved and widely respected children’s book, this work is too often overlooked by adults who relegate it to the nursery bookshelf.  "The Hobbit is a brilliantly constructed story unfolding themes that adult readers will still find compellingly relevant to the modern world: themes such as the nature of evil and the significance of human choice, or the corruptive power of greed and the ease with which good people can be drawn into destructive conflict." Corey Olsen is an Assistant Professor of English at Washington College in Maryland  Bilbo Baggins begins as a cautious and conservative hobbit, well respected and considered a pillar of the hobbit community. When he reluctantly sets out on a quest to recover the stolen treasure of a band of dwarves, he encounters dangers of all descriptions. His adventures, which figure prominently in a prophecy of the dwbarves, are like stepping stones on the inner journey Biblo must take to find his courage. Bilbo faces trials which again and again force him to look deep inside himself for the strength and resourcefulness he needs to complete the task expected of him.

Discussion Schedule

 

Ch 1 - 3	Nov 12-16
Ch 4 - 6	Nov 17-21
Ch 7 - 8	Nov 22-26	Now Discussing
Ch 9 - 12	Nov 27-Dec 1
Ch 13 - 15	Dec 2-5
Ch 16 - 18	Dec 6-9
Ch 19 and overall	Dec 10-13

Questions for Consideration

To notice for the whole book:

Tolkien incorporated many elements of myth, legend, and fairy tale.  What ones do you see?  Are they effective?

The story takes place in Middle Earth.  Is this our world?  How is it the same or different?

The Hobbit is a prelude to The Lord of the Rings.  If you are familiar with LOTR, notice which elements are present here, and what differences there are.

What different races of creatures do we meet?  What is each like?

Chapter 7.

The Eagles appear like Black Shadows and Gandalf describes Beorn as easily annoyed with no certainty how he will act – both are protectors – both offer hospitality around a fire – What is the difference in their fire?

Do you see those who protect us in life as scary?

In what ways is Bilbo fearful and how does he handle his fear?

Why does Beorn leave his guests for a full night till the next morning?

What is similar about Beorn and Bilbo?

What does Beorn accomplish do you think when he impales his conquests at his gate?

What is the most important advice that Beorn and Gandalf give for the journey through the Forest?

How does their advice make you feel; safe, cautious, fearful, constrained, unlocking your imagination. Does the advice make you feel adventurous, tentative, or creative?

Chapter 8.

What does the strength of the rope used to pull the boat mean to you?

What about the Deer made the dwarfs shoot their arrows? What is the message of using our resources as they used their best arrows?

What about the carrying of the sleeping Bombur remind you of today? Was it Bombur's fault that he fell in the stream?

How did Bilbo become separated from the dwarfs and how does he manage to escape the giant spider?

Can you remember a time when you acted foolhardy flush with a recent success?

What was important enough that Bilbo let the dwarfs in on the secret of the ring?

What strengths and weaknesses do the individual dwarfs show and how do they cope with the situations they encounter. Do you see yourself in any of them - how they handle themselves when captured or in battles?

 

Discussion Leaders:  PatH; Marcie, Babi , Barbara

[PatH]

This is our last day on this section, and we still have two more races to meet--the wrathful wargs and the elevated eagles.  And another cliffhanger to get out of, and a plot against humans.

[JoanP]

Gollum/GOLEM
That is "neat," Jude  - do you see any connection between the original Golem and Tolkien's character? Do you think Tolkien was aware of the Golem when naming Gollum?

I've a question about Gollum, ever since Barb wrote

"With Gollum and Bilbo both hobbits I had a flash as if symbolically they were two sides of a coin..."

I'm trying to follow the thought and the idea of Gollum a hobbit?  Where did that come from?  We're talking symbolicaly, right? Surely Gollum is not a dark hobbit - does not even recognize a hobbit when he sees one.  Doesn't know whether Bilbo is good to eat or not.  Tolkien doesn't let on where G. came from - just that he is very old, small and dark - "as dark as darkness."

"I don't know where he came from, nor who or what he was."  

The narrator.

For the first time, I'm wondering who is narrating the tale.  Tolkien himself, right?

Why would Bilbo decide to keep Gollum's ring?  Because he realizes that he might need it again in the future?  Perhaps he will meet Gollum again - on the way home - and make restitution?

Just a bunch of questions today - no  insights.  Sorry!
Will be back to face those Wargs...now those are the stuff of nightmares.  Must make the stuffing first so I feel I'm making progress.

[Babi]

 Really? I'll definitely go find that verse, JUDE. I can't imagine reading a word
like 'Golmi' and not investigating it. But then, I do most of my Bible reading from
the modern translations.

   The dwarves may have been mystified, but Gandalf knows something has happened.  Bilbo isn't sure about Gandalf's remark, "What did I tell you? Mr. Baggins has more about him than you guess."Considering the 'queer look' he gave him,  Bilbo senses a possible double meaning there.
 
  On the march...dinnerless, supperless,  etc.  Poor hobbit.  I looked up sorrel, wondering how helpful that might be.  Found this:  "sorrel ..is an indigenous English plant, common, too in the greater part of Europe...  about 2 feet high, with juicy stems and leaves.."
Used, apparently, in salads and meat stews  
   Cockscomb clover:  I couldn't find it in Explorer.  Google had one, very hard to find, with a link
about five lines long.  It looks much like a yellow thistle, but without the thorns.
   Eagles with Golden crowns and collars.  Today's Golden Eagle, perhaps?

  I couldn't find a good picture of the big bees, but I saw some in my yard a couple of years
ago.  Bigger than the bumble bee,  with the coloring more vivid.  I thought they were beautiful.
Have not seen one since. I would be glad to see them again.

   Have you noticed?  All of these fantasy species are the same.  Not as other species, of course, but all goblins behave the same, all wargs all alike, trolls uniformly mean and ugly.
Apparently only humans and elves have differences, uniqueness.  I include the elves because
of the difference between the Lord of the Homely House, and the Elvenking, but that difference
by also be attributed to the human heritage of the Homely House elves.

[JoanP]

Hmm...Babi - there was only ONE Gollum though, as there is only one Hobbit.
Why only one Gollum, why not many?

I'm remembering something PatH posted earlier -

Gandalf chose Bilbo to be an antidote to the greed which is the dwarves' biggest fault.

Perhaps Bilbo is supposed to represent an antidote to the dark side of Gollum.  

Do you think the dwarves...or Gollum himself for that matter, will change as a result of their association with Bilbo by the end of the tale?

[BarbStAubrey]

Without checking the story I remember Gollum, before he lived in the cave he was described as having lived near a river or stream in a hole - it did not say specifically a hobbit hole but so far they are the only ones who live in holes and that is where I thought those who said he was also a hobbit got their information - something about Gollum having lived with his grandmother. Since Gollum and Bilbo are paired during the story it seems a symbolic relationship that resonates as the dark or as I see it the neglected and isolated aspects of Bilbo. I forgot till I wrote this - when Gollum lived in his hole he was also near water -

Found an online Dictionary of Symbols - not as complete as most books but it does show a few of the bits of we read about in the story - like Cave, and Forest, and River...
http://www.umich.edu/~umfandsf/symbolismproject/symbolism.html/

I like what Dr. Louis says in his online Symbolism in Literature
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6472314/Symbolism-in-Literature

The term, symbol, when used in literature is often a figure of speech in which a person,object, or situation represent something in addition to its literal meaning. Conventional or traditional literary symbols work in much the same way, and because they have a previously agreed upon meaning, they can be used to suggest ideas more universal than the physical aspect itself.

[JoanP]

Barb - it occurs that if Gollum once lived with his grandmother -in a hole, and if, in fact a hobbit - might she have been a Took? Just a thought...

Not sure about the symbolism of this last group of terrorists...they are simply wolves - wolves that go by a different name - Wargs.  What was Tolkien telling us with these evil-doers?  Not forgetting that the tale was written for his children - children have always been threatened by big bad wolves. To see GANDALF up a tree, not knowing what to do next - "dreadfully afraid" we're told - the only thing he could think to do was toss burning pine cones at the wolves! Tossing flaming cones -in a forest! How clever was that?

What would have become of him, the dwarves and Bilbo had the Eagles not been flying overhead at that moment and come to their rescue? It was luck, wasn't it?  Sheer luck. Come to think of it - luck plays an important part in each of these episodes - as when Bilbo came across the Gollum's ring at the very moment he would have been killed.
Is there a message here?

[BarbStAubrey]

hmmm yes, you are right - I wonder if she was a Took - interesting - and yes, happen chance - there is some sort of saying something about once committed providence moves and all sorts of things happen to assist you in your endeavor. I guess your life, your existence, saving your neck, is a strong enough commitment that providence moves in spades.

Too bad it does not move for everyone in life - it must be a shock to see your not going to be saved if you kept to the belief that providence would assist. Makes you think there is a flash of thought as to what the depth of commitment had to be. I kinda prefer your observation - it is just luck and we control none of it...

[BarbStAubrey]

Hope you have a memorable Thanksgiving - we really are so blessed aren't we - Today we continue the journey into the Forest with Chapters 7 and 8 - those Goblins sure can bring about a lot of scary happenings - and Bilbo seems to be a poster child for the saying if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger.

We left the story with the Eagles having landed and whisking them off to safety - now they are perched on the top of the world - again, hungry -

[PatH]

Perhaps Bilbo is supposed to represent an antidote to the dark side of Gollum.  

I think so--they are the opposite possibilities of one being.  And when Bilbo is desperate to get out of the cave, its mouth blocked by Gollum, he feels a wave of pity as he realizes what Gollum's life is like, how far he has fallen, and that except for better luck, he, Bilbo, could have come to that.  It's an important decision not to take the first step down, not to murder Gollum to escape, and that gives him the burst of strength to leap over Gollum's head and get away cleanly.

[JudeS]

Joan K
Ypu asked if I think Tolkien knew about the legend of the Golem.Of course he did. To the point that he got feedback that pointed to the idea that people saw Gollum like a GOLEM. i.e.big, lumbering and not too smart. Tolkien, in his later editions of his book made sure that he gave more exact dimensions of this creatur and more details about his character so readers wouldn't confuse the two.
As we saw so explicitly in The Tempest by WS there are lines and ideas stolen from various  other author's plays, essays, stories and novels.
To give another examples of this "borrowing trend":
In Peter Jackson's version of LOTR Gollum looks very much like Dobby of J K Rawlings Harry Potter.
In fact this whole search into Gollum began because he so much resembled Dobby that I thought my imagination was running away with me and I was seeing things that weren't there.
Now I am on Terra Firma again and all is right with the world  (sort of) on this lovely Thanksgiving day !

[PatH]

This has nothing at all to do with The Hobbit, only with golems.  Judy, are you familiar with the writer Avram Davidson?  He wrote mostly fantasy and science fiction.  One of his early short stories is The Golem.  In it, an elderly couple in Los Angeles see a grey-faced person, who walks strangely.  He tells them: "When you learn who--or rather what--I am, the flesh will melt from your bones in terror."  They manage to dismember the electronics inside him, write the correct word on his forehead, and subdue him into an automaton who will mow their lawn, all the while gossiping about their family and seemingly mostly oblivious to what they are doing.  Short and sweet and very funny.

[JudeS]

Pat
Never heard of that story. However in other stories about The Golem you have a similar scenario.
The word on The Golem's forehead is EMET in Hebrew meaning truth. If you remove the first letter (in Hebrew, Aleph) the letters that remain are "Met" which in Hebrew means DEAD.....
Spooky!

[Babi]

   True, JOANP, thankfully. One Gollum is more than enough, I would think. And
since this Gollum apparently was once a hobbit, I am happy to know he's the only
one that fell into this terrible condition.  Will Bilbo change any of the dwarves?
Hmm.  Certainly we can see Bilbo being changed. We'll just have to watch for any
real change in any of the them.
   The wargs were not the only 'terrorists'. (Good name for them. ) There are both
wargs and wolves in the story. So much seems to depend on luck in this adventure.
Do you think it was all luck?  I don't really believe much in luck.

  You see much of the same in dreaming, BARB. Dreams are full of symbolic associations,
which can vary widely in their possible meanings. A single symbol can mean different
things, depending on the circumstances of the dream and the dreamer.

  Beorn!   Well, we've all heard of werewolves,  but a werebear?   A vegetarian werebear?!  I love it!  Gandalf warns all the group, repeatedly,  that Beorn has a bad temper and they must be most careful not to offend.  Actually, I've noticed Gandalf can get pretty snappish himself.   
 I really like Beorn.  He loves his animals and loves a good story. 
 Gandalf repeated the warning "Don't leave the path".  so many times,  I find myself dreading that one of them will almost certainly leave the path.

[BarbStAubrey]

How is this for a Hobbit house or maybe an elf house since we are told Hobbits live in holes

[JoanP]

A vegetarian werebear!  Love it.  Bilbo seems to be a vegetarian too, forced to eat mutton and rabbit  when hungry enough. (isn't Bilbo part rabbit? No wonder he doesn't like to eat rabbit!)  He'd prefer tea and toast.  Here at Beorn's he gets those twice-baked cakes and honey - much more to his liking.  Do you know what they are, those twice-baked cakes?

Don't you just KNOW they are going to leave the path, Babi?  I can't imagine an easy trek through Mirkwood, keeping to the path.  Whenever Gandalf leaves the little band, they get in trouble - no wonder they are dismayed to hear he is off again.  But he always shows up when they need him most, doesn't he?
I was thinking that Gandalf is like a guardian angel - but not sure about Beorn yet. He did go check out the Wargs and the Goblins who threaten the dwarves. But a guardian angel remains with you - doesn't leave you in danger.  

 I don't think Beorn  has much respect for the hobbit - but Gandalf still does.  In fact he's telling the dwarves that they'll be fine with Bilbo in their midst - there's more to him than meets the eye.  Do you get the feeling that Gandalf considers Bilbo their guardian? They're told that with a "tremendous slice of luck" they'll make their way through that black forest of Mirkwood.  Luck - and courage.

Gandalf thought that Bilbo was asking him if they really had to go through with it, but he was simply asking if there wasn't another way to continue without going through the dangerous Mirkwood to reach Lonely Mountain.  When Gandalf tells him he must go through "or give up his quest" - I had to stop again and think about Bilbo's "quest."  I understand the dwarves' - but still not sure what Bilbo's is.  Does Bilbo himself know?

[JoanP]

There it is again - the reference to the dreaded "Necromancer." Don't know why he spooks me more than any of the other goblins, wargs, etc.   I'm glad they decided to go through Mirkwood, rather than to the south where the Necromancer dwells...but afraid that we'll have to meet him somewhere along the way.

[Babi]

 I love the little tree trunk house, BARB. Where did you find that?
About Bilbo's quest, it seems to me that whenever he stops to actually think about
it, he wonders what on earth he's doing there.

 A necromancer definitely appears in the LOTR trilogy; don't know if it's the same
one. Maybe he's only here to explain why Gandalf keeps disappearing when the
dwarves and Bilbo could really need him. It would have to be something important.

 I don't see Beorn as disrespectful of Bilbo.  Beorn loves his creatures, and I think he is
enjoying the little Hobbit. So long as his guests are within his realm, they are under his
protection. I think I would feel very safe with him.

[marcie]

That's a wonderful little "tree house", Barbarba.

JoanP, yes, as Gandalf prepares to leave the group as they enter the Mirkwood forest, he tells them that Mr Baggins "has more about him than you guess, and you will find that out before long." I don't think that Bilbo himself knows his capabilities. He's never gone on an adventure to test them before. This is a huge adventure and Gandalf keeps reminding them that it's a dangerous one... life or death. Bilbo and the dwarves will discover a lot about themselves.

I also had a passing thought that Gandalf might be referencing the ring that Bilbo found when he says, Bilbo "has more about him than you guess."

[PatH]

I also had a passing thought that Gandalf might be referencing the ring that Bilbo found when he says, Bilbo "has more about him than you guess."

Gandalf certainly knows about the ring; he gave Bilbo a very queer look when Bilbo told his escape story to the dwarves without mentioning it.

[BarbStAubrey]

Well I am thinking a Hobbit moved in next to my house sometime this summer - and I fell into the hole -

Wednesday the guys were here from the city to trim the trees near the wires - they called at my request and said they would be here at 8:30 and sure enough the knock on the door - there are two trees that I did not want them hacking into until we could discuss alternatives - the growth on both are my only protection from a street light in front and a barn light off a neighbors house in back -

Walking in only houseshoes (learned my lesson the hard way)  down the side of the house on the deer trail with little grass since last year's sever drought - the path has tree roots exposed and calichie worked up - yep, you guessed it - down I went on my side - trying to grab a tree trunk protected me from a broken arm but a small bone in my foot is broken, a huge baseball size knot on my knee, whacked my hip that affects my spine that is again sore and probably did some nerve damage - we shall see - my shoulder is sore - blood flow into my arm and hand is challenged - what a mess for Thanksgiving - It was just that Hobbit that moved in under the live oak near the AC discharge hose so it could get water and only had to get out of the way when the deer came through.

Thank goodness as embarrassed as I felt the guy from the city was there to help me up - and thank goodness the plan for Thanksgiving was to go out to eat - and yesterday I slept and slept and slept - felt like Bombur because my plan is to take it very easy with lots of naps in hopes by Monday all is well and there will be no further need for any more ex-rays etc.

[BarbStAubrey]

Reading this together so far I was fascinated to see in front of our eyes the quote in action that is something about a story becoming the reader - because we bring to a story our experiences -

We have some seeing Gollum as the twin side of a 'good/bad' within Bilbo - after seeing again the Bill Moyers show with the guest that talked of our dark side in reference to his going to war I could see clearer that viewpoint. I think there are some who saw the good/bad as a metaphor for society - and then, I know I saw Gollum more as the twin side of the neglected and isolated aspects of ourselves - and then some see Gollum as a separate and unique individual rather than the symbolic twin of Bilbo and still others see in Gollum an ancient tradition of Golem - isn't it just fascinating how we each read a story from our own experience and perspective - how rich is this experience we share reading this together - love it...

[JoanK]

Goodness, Barb: I hope you'll be alright! {{{{{{HUGS}}}}}

[BarbStAubrey]

An interesting aside - we know that Tolkien incorporated Nordic, Christian and Celtic myth in his stories - seems the main Spider is in her terrible aspect a weaver of destiny and spins the thread of life from its own substance and attaches all men to it as the umbilical cord that binds them to the pattern of the world. The spider represents the world center. - the Christian view is the Spider is the devil that snares sinners and is the miser of the poor where as, mother Holda and the Norns in Scandinavian and Teutonic myth are spinners and weavers of destiny.

http://www.northernpaganism.org/shrines/holda/holdas-rituals/holdas-weaving-blessing.html

this link from the same site explains who is Holda
http://www.northernpaganism.org/shrines/holda/about.html

[BarbStAubrey]

JoanK thanks - at this point all I can do is try and sleep it off - and laugh as much as possible - and such is life as we age thinking we can do what we did as recently as 5 or 10 years before...

[JoanK]

I know -- it's always a shock when we suddenly realize we can't.

[BarbStAubrey]

A nap is calling this old Bombur but before I go I've realized - how many distinctive kinds of little people in myths and children's stories - Hobbits, dwarfs, Goblins, Elves, Fairies, Gnomes, Tom-tens, Trolls, Brownies, Hobgoblins, Bodrigis, Duergar, Loki - goodness...found this site that has lots of Fairy tale lore - http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/tfm/index.htm

[PatH]

JoanP, you are quite right to be spooked by the Necromancer.  We don't see a lot of him in The Hobbit, but he is a big part of LOTR, where he is Sauron, the evil one who is trying to rule the world, and a very nasty piece of work.

Tolkien had not yet written, or even worked out the plot, of LOTR when he wrote The Hobbit, but he had already worked out quite a lot of the earlier history of Middle Earth.  Sauron has a long earlier history of evil, defeats, and rising again.

[marcie]

Barbara, I hope that you recover from your fall soon. Thanks for the links to the folklore.

[BarbStAubrey]

Maybe the Took house or maybe even Gollum's childhood home with his grandmother

[JoanP]

Barbara - you are getting the best advice here- rest, sleep! You've provided us with so much to think about and talk about...don't worry about us.

PatH- I think the reason  the Necromancer spooks me is his communication with the dead... Tolkien's imagination knows few limits. He probably touches on at least one fear we each have. Those spiders...fear of heights, etc. I read through the link on folklore - didn't see Necromancer. There was so much there though.  Probably read right past it.

I wasn't aware that he did the drawings for the 1938 edition - including the cover illustration shown in the heading.
I found his illustration for Mirkwood...

[Frybabe]

Barb, I wish you a speedy recovery.

Re the little houses. I used to occasionally work on Faerie Magazine dedicated to all things fairy. It seems people put these little houses in their gardens so that traveling fairies have a place to stay overnight. I remember seeing an article or two about how to make them, where to place them in the garden, pictures of people's fairy houses and gardens, etc. Looking through their website I noticed that there are two fairy festivals held each year very near to me.

[JoanP]

It was so essential to the tale that the dwarves and Bilbo leave the path through Mirkwood, wasn't it?  Did Gandalf and Beorn know this when they warned them not to? Were the warnings their way of preparing them for the danger they were facing? I'm wondering what the moral for disobeying orders or warnings will turn out to be...

My beautiful annotated edition has this note by Tolkien in a letter to his grandson in 1966:

"Mirkwood is not an invention of mine, but a very ancient name, weighted with legendary associations. It was probably the Primitive Germanic name for the great mountainous forest regions that anciently formed a barrier to the south of the lands of Germanic expansion...especially of the boundary between Goths and Huns."

[JoanP]

Good morning, Fry. You've had some fascinating work experiences!  Did you put up a little fairy house in your own garden?

It's difficult for me to imagine the elves had such sweet dwelling places - in Mirkwood!

[PatH]

Good morning all.

"Mirkwood is not an invention of mine, but a very ancient name, weighted with legendary associations.

This is true of a lot of the things in Tolkien.  I suspect that it adds to the effectiveness--the names and legends and characters have stood the test of time.

[Babi]

 BARB, where are you finding these wonderful little make-believe houses? Any child
would be enchanted with them. Shuck, I'm enchanted with them. And thanks for the
Mirkwood illustration, too. My '37 edition is illustrated, but doesn't have that
one.  

 FRYBABE, I had no idea there was a 'faerie' following. What a charming idea. May
we hope you will attend on ot the festivals, and tell us all about it?

  Well, it really became a matter of leave the path or sit here and die, didn't it?  I may need to
take another look at that section, but I don't believe they left the path heedlessly.

  Look at the jeering names.  'Tomnoddy' and 'Attercop'.  Can't you imagine a child being tickled with those words?  I can just hear one shouting to another,  "Tomnoddy, tomnoddy!"     I'm surprised it hasn't entered the common language.   Tomnoddy, perhaps, might be related to our 'tomfool'.   With a stre-e-etch of the imaginaton,  attercop might be translated into addlepate.  How about 'lazy Lob'  and 'crazy Cob'?   What would a lob
or a cob be?  Any ideas?

[PatH]

Attercop turns out to mean spider.  My book says it comes from Old English, and the OED lists it as obsolete or dialectical.  Possibly some of Tolkien's readers would recognize it.  My book also says that lob and cob mean spider.  I guess that's where cobweb comes from.

While we are on words, my book also says that Beorn is an Old English word for "man, warrior", but originally meant "bear".  Appropriate, since it's unclear which Beorn is.

[JudeS]

Joan P
Sorry that I put my answer re:The Golem to YOUR question in the name of Joan K.

Someone asked what kind of Hobbit is Gollum. He is Stoor Hobbit of the River folk who lived near Gladden Falls.

I find it somewhat weird talking about these characters as though they are real with histories, dwelling places, and appetites.
I never felt that way about the odd  creatures in "Harry Potter" or "The Chronicles of Narnia."
But in those books there were human characters to mediate the weirdness I find here.

Also someone asked who is telling the story. Tolkien is telling it in the voice of an Omnipent observer of  the events as they happen as well as of the background. This makes it, for me, more of a Fairy Tale than a novel. (A lo-o-o-ong fairy tale).

[JoanP]

Yes, I see Tolkien as the narrator too, Jude - an omniscient observer who sees the whole picture, slowly unravelling the story as he entertains his own children...I can hear his voice, as if he's reading it to us.  Someone said it's best to read it out loud.  I agree with that!  

"Well, it really became a matter of leave the path or sit here and die, didn't it?"

 Babi - remember how the dwarves wanted to know how much further they had to go - and hoisted Bilbo high in the tree to see if they were almost through?  Bilbo made a mistake, misjudged, and told them there was no end in sight.  They probably would have made it safely, had they not left the path.  But look what Bilbo would have missed - the realization that he is a fiercer, bolder person than he knew...that he is capable of more than blowing smoke rings, cooking bacon and deciphering riddles...
I'm wondering if this was all part of Gandalf's plan or did he expect them to heed his warning?

[mabel1015j]

Noticed this notation on "BlogHer" site thought you might want to take a look, or comment on her blog.

http://www.blogher.com/blogher-reads-hobbit#comments