Elegance of the Hedgehog ~ Muriel Barbery ~ Book Club Online ~ April 1st

[JoanP]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  everyone is welcome to join in.

"Prickly and popular novel on class and culture" -    "Central to the book's appeal is the compelling voice of its main character, Renée Michel, a 54-year-old Paris apartment-building concierge who struggles to hide her self-taught erudition and cultivation from snobby, rich tenants. She disdains their élitist notions of class and social order, but she knows the residents would be outraged at discovering what a deep grasp the hired help has of art and learning. So Renée masks her intellect behind the persona expected of her lowly station." Time Magazine The second narrator in the book is the precocious 12 year old daughter of one of the tenants, who hides her intelligence  from a world she finds meaningless.  The two characters neatly mirror one another in a philosophical tale of contrasts which succeeds in resolving some issues of life and death.

Discussion Schedule: April 1-3 ~ Marx Preamble pgs.17-27 April 4-12 ~ Camellias ~  pgs.31-129 April 13-16 ~ On Grammar ~ pgs.133-170 April 22-26 ~ Paloma ~ pgs. 241-315 April 27 ~ My Camellias ~ pgs. 316-325 Final Thoughts

For Your Consideration
April 22-26 ~ Paloma ~ pgs.241-315

 1. Has Paloma entered the concierge's loge to hide from the world,  just as Renée seems to be emerging from her camouflage? 

2.  Do you think Renée has any business resenting the affectation of the rich, like Colombe, who dress as if they are poor?  What of intelligent people who disguise themselves as ignorant?

3.  Why is Renée dismayed as  she reads the final draft of Colombe's thesis? Do you think that Renée too has an obligation to use her acquired knowledge to contribute to the common good?  Does Renée believe that?

4.  Why do kids burn cars?  Why does Paloma want to burn the apartment?  Do the answers to both questions relate to Renée's situation?

5.  Were there instances of "laconicism" and humorous exchanges that you enjoyed in these chapters while attempting to grasp the deeper philosophical implications?

6.   Why is the movement of the falling rosebud so special to Paloma?  Do you see Beauty in a fallen rosebud yet to blossom - or does it make you sad?

7.  Why did Renée turn down Kakuro's invitation to celebrate his birthday?  Was it the photo of his beautiful wife, Sanae?  Would she have faced the  real reason had Paloma not forced the issue? 

8. How did Renée's tearful revelation affect Paloma?  (A doctor or a writer - are they nearly the same?)
 
9.  What did Kakuro tell Renée at dinner that changed everything and caused her not to sleep that night?

10.  "Suddenly class struggles seem less important."  Were they ever really as important as Renée believed them to be?  Do you believe  class differences are  real or imagined?

Relevant Links:
Online Dictionary (English);
Glossary of posted Definitions
French-English Dictionary;
Hôtels particuliers; An Interview with Muriel Barbery;

Discussion Leaders:  JoanP & Eloise

[JoanP]

Ah Gum!  Thanks so much for the update on B.O. - what relief you must feel, knowing the situation -  and  looking at a good prognosis.  That's wonderful news.
What have you been knitting - what yarn are you using? - famous wool from the  Antipodes?

Thanks for mentioning those Camellias.  I've been down in South Carolina, where the moss hangs from the trees...living moss. Actually, it is quite beautiful A camellia could bloom, partially hidden by moss.   While there, I was wondering what the moss looks like in that Ozu film Renée likes so much, in which she viewed the camillia in the moss.  What do you think?  Is the beautiful camellia living, blooming on a tree draped in moss?  OR

Babi - do you see a living camellia on a stone wall, nesting in moss? OR-

Do you see a camellia that has dropped off the stem, lying on the ground - in the moss?

I can see the camellia representing  "beauty that sparks a moment of pleasure and joy despite all the grayness
of life" - but I'm wondering how Renée is like the  Camellia? 

Yes, Babi - I see the Chrisophe/Colombe retort as Gum does...Marguerite putting Paloma's sister in her place.  Marguerite, the newly-introduced-best-friend seems to spend a lot of time at Paloma's home, though Maman doesn't seem to be too pleased about it.  Marguerite  has dark skin, is of mixed race - and doesn't pussyfoot around when racial comments come her way.  She speaks right up -   I think she is a mouthpiece for Paloma, don't you?  She doesn't keep her sarcastic thoughts to herself - just  says what's on her mind, putting everyone in their place.  She sees the Josse family as Paloma does - and is squarely in her friend's corner.  Why didn't we know Paloma had a friend like this before?

Another best friend - can we compare Marguerite to Renée's friend, Manuela?

[straudetwo]

It is the beginning of April vacation in Massachusetts and my grandchildren are in and out, each taking turns at the computer.
So  can't manage a longer answer at this time.

JoanP.  I have already answered some of the questions but more are emerging, right and left.
I totally agree with the impressions  Babi and Gum have related. For Renée the experience is overwhelming - mind-boggling - unanaticipated, out of the blue.  All her preconceived notions about needing to hide who she is, what she represents as a human being and is able to offer, evaporate like drops of water on a hot stone. It's an EPIPHANY.

I agree that Renée at age 12 could have been nothing like Paloma.  She had only just been "awakened" from muteness, so to speak, by a dedicated teacher to her possibilities.  Paloma instead was raised in a well-cushioned nest and already fully aware of her extraordinary intelligence.

Éloïse, I fear we need your help to tell us about that repartee in the exchange between Marguerite and Colombe.
What significance does the name "Christophe" have, and perhaps more important,  what does it imply?  Something nasty, no doubt.

I'm afraid you were right when you asked earlier. . There is little the concierge can exchange with Manuela other than gossip and practical, every-day things.
R. says  something to that effect  but I can't find it now.

Here's more proof of how important flowers are to the author and this book. Now we have Paloma's best friend named after one =Marguerite.  Paloma says their friendship was "love at first sight" - does that sound a bit effusive to you?
And have you noticed that Paloma is mentioning the most handsome boy in class, Achille Grand-Fernet, TWICE in her P.T. # 12? 
I have to get off line now.
GUM, thinking of you, sending you good thoughts and best wishes for what must be anxious, very hard moments.
Fondly, Traude

[straudetwo]

Paloma has "Dr." Theid  down to a "T", doesn't she? 
 "newly minted Seychelles"  and "marron glacé".  Hmmmm  Someone light colored from the Seychelles Islands? 
But aren't those  racial terms ? 

What is a supermarket "flunkey" ? 
"Wallou" seems to mean "nada",  where does it come from?  Is it a new idiom?

[JudeS]

Streude
Il ooked up the words you mentioned .Here are a few of the many for Flunky (Flunkey)
Failure- Victim, bankrupt flunky
Servant -Attendant , squire valet, flunky
Servility-Sycophant, parasite, toady. snob, flunky

The combination of Supermarket and flunky brought up the following-I quote from the article:
"We buy or"outsource" domestic labor time when we purchase heat and serve food in the supermarket. In a sense....these foods are a form of commodified domestic labor.
 
As far as wallou is concerned there were 12 pages of info. but no specific definition.  It seems that the word is used as a titlle together woth woo or woi for various and sundry Rock groups, furniture establishments etc.

I don't know if this material is helpful.

As far as Palomas friend Marguerite is concerned-she, like Paloma, is an outsider.  So I don't know if it is a true friendship or  a self protecting mechanism -i.e. the two of us against the rest rather than myself alone against the rest.

Renee's friendship is based on a common past of poverty, striving and a good sense of humor. They both fulfill low positions in every day life yet when together they escape their jobs and find a breath of fresh air between them. They are true friends.  It is not necessary for Renee to share her intellectual self to be a warm and good friend.

[Eloise]

I am in awe of all the wonderful posts. I am in the middle of family situations that require lots of my time. But I will be back tomorrow to respond to some very interesting ideas about what is happening at 7 rue de Grenelle. Isn't it getting interesting though.

[straudetwo]

Thank you so much,   Jude. I had checked and all but exhausted my possibilities, which include my two French Larousse dictionaries, heavy tomes I have difficulty holding (!). 'flunk' as a verb or adjective is not a problem, but I wondered what precisely a supermarket flunky (or flunkey) could possibly be. Itinerant vendors offering cheap trinkets to customers coming out of the grocery store?  Majolr and even minor European cities are flooded with them and I have experienced them myself in Italy, notably in Venice.
Given the spelling of "flunkey" and some terms in the translation I wonderwhether the translator is English. 

What Paloma means is "nothing", no reaction from the so-called doctor, nada. But Wallou is new to me.
Yes, there are many nuances we may not readily absorb, for example Paloma's references to her republican father, a Socialist and member of Parliament.  Here, of course, the Democrats are automatically associated with any phrase that hasd "social" in it Not in France.

Also mentioned in Paloma's Profound Thoughts# 12 is Giscard d'Estaing, and I wonder how many of us remember the tall, dignified man who was he 20th President of the French Republic from 1974-1981. 
Another venerable figure is mentioned by Paloma, General de Gaulle (or those who long after his death are 'Gaullists').  Churchill did not like de Gaulle, and his stiffness was not appreciated much here.. But he was a brilliant general in WW II and a statesman. In fact, he  founded the 5th Republic of France in 1958. 

Paloma also mentions 'Lacan' and I looked him up: he was a 20th century French psychoanalyst.

Éloïse, no hurry, of course. With your measured, calm reasoning any problem can be resolved, of that I am sure.
One last question: the English title of chapter 11 is "Existence and Duration".  Is the original title Existence et Durée?
Special thanks.
And thanks to all of you for hanging in. You will not regret it.

[JoanP]

Eloise, we look forward to your return with your handy little French insights  and original French edition!

Traudee, you've been busy!   Paloma seems to have  captured your attention.   I couldn't bring myself to linger over her schtick.  I'm glad that you did!

 Let's not gloss over what has happened between the tenant and the concierge!!!  I want you to translate the "ooh ooh ooh's"  for me!!!
We just cannot skip over the dinner in M. Ozu's apartment.  That was the highlight of the Summer Rain chapters, don't you think?  According to the schedule, tomorrow is our last day before moving on...unless you tell us that you'd rather slow down... and extend a bit.

 

"If you have but one friend, make sure you choose her well."

Gum, Paloma didn't go to M. Ozu's place unescorted - she had her outspoken friend, Marguerite, at her side! 
And Renée has Manuela in her corner or I don't think she would ever have pulled it off, do you?  Why do you think she accepted M. Ozu's invitation - because she didn't know how to turn him down - or because she really wanted to go?

  Jude, I do see Marguerite as an outsider, now that you point it out  and I think that Manuela is certainly not in the social swim, but she had taste, didn't she? - I guess  she had experience picking up Mme. Josse's clothes to know what would work for such a dinner.

 What a transformation!!!  Wasn't the dress just too, too perfect for the occasion?  I kept looking for some sort of a reaction from M. Ozu.  Did he even notice her??? 

We were deflected from any comment because Renée's eyes went right past him to the copy of Pieter Claesz'  still life...
What is your response to still life painting?  To this particular one?

Pieter Claesz still life - click picture to enlarge

 

[Gumtree]

Gum, Paloma didn't go to M. Ozu's place unescorted - she had her outspoken friend, Marguerite, at her side! 

Yes, JoanP but that was Paloma's second visit to Mr. Ozu's apartment. The first occurs in Profound Thought No 11 after they had met in the lift and he comes to the door to invite Paloma to come to his apartment. Maman enticed by where this could lead, accepted eagerly on my behalf...  In short I went to have tea at his place and meet his cats...

Paloma tells how after the tea they went on to discuss the definition of intelligence, then began to talk about Russian literature and Ozu decides to send Renee a copy of Anna K.

This is where I question what sort of a mother Madame Josse really is and begin to see that Paloma has good reason for her attitude toward her Maman.

[Eloise]

Gumtree, Traude,  I think Marguerite mentioned Christopher Colombus because the French for that name is Christophe Colomb meaning it was no more an old name than Marguerite. I didn’t look for further explanation.

Paloma is portrayed as much older than 12 by the author when in fact she had just come out of primary school at that time. Where did she have time to become so well read? And even if she is brilliant academically how can she have the reasoning of a 20 something? But that also is entertaining, I can picture this little slip of a girl in deep conversation with a Mr. Ozu. He talks with her like an equal, something Paloma has never experienced before. Parents always think of their teenagers as babies still

The title of that chapter Traude on page 203 is Existence Without Duration. Une existence sans durée.

In the scene before our eyes-silent, without life or motion-a time excempt of projects is incarnated, perfection purloined from duration and its weary greed-pleasure without desire, existence without duration, beauty without will. For art is emotion without desire.

Something to ponder?

The dinner with Mr. Ozu was one of my best part of the book with Renée becoming mesmerized by Pieter Claesz’s still life. Personally I like to see people in art instead of still life.

What did you all think about the bathroom episode? Is it a bit far fetched? White walls and a yellow carpet, not my style, I prefer color on the walls and ceramic tiles on the floor. Renée's description of being locked up in the bathroom was so funny.

I think Wallou is just teenage jargon, it’s like computer shortcuts kids use today. It’s not in the dictionary. Wallou is in the French version also. I think it means ‘nothing’.

[Babi]

JOANP, as I recall the description, the moss was growing on the stone wall of a
temple, and the Camellia was nesting in the moss. I don't think it is so much
that Renee' is like the camellia as that she keeps finding these spots of beauty
in life, which she likens to that image of the camellia.  Actually, other people
do seem to be finding in Renee those moments of 'pleasure and joy'. 

  Yes, Marguerite is definitely being sarcastic with Colombe. I just don't under-
stand what was sarcastic about the reference to 'Christophe'. 
 But Yes!!! I now see that Eloise has provided the explanation. Christophe Colomb was unquestionably much older than grandmother! 

Paloma and Marguerite play a game called ‘Fate’,  in which they make up future destinies for the people they know.   But Paloma says,   “…the most awful thing is not that we’re playing this game, but that it isn’t a  game.” These are things she fully expects to happen….a la goldfish bowl.

  Here I thought I was fairly familiar with the Dutch Masters of the 17th Century.  The names I think of are Rembrandt, Hals, Vermeer, Steen, de Hooch.  Now Renee’ lists  master artists that I never heard of…
Claesz, Heda, Kalf and Beert, all masters of the genre of still life, which Renee‘ loves.   I must investigate.

http://www.nga.gov/fcgi-bin/timage_f?object=72869&image=18888&c=gg47 (Heda)
http://www.nga.gov/images/decor/claeszinfo_fs.shtm  (Claesz)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Willem_Kalf_001.jpg   (Kalf)
http://www.nga.gov/fcgi-bin/timage_f?object=91389&image=20561&c=   (Beert)

 You know what entranced me about the bathroom episode?  A commode with
multiple choice push buttons for flushing!  I've never heard of such a thing. Not to mention musical accompaniment!  Ah,...the toys of the wealthy. 

[JoanP]

Gum, I didn't notice that the child went alone to Kakuro's apartment!  (His secretary was there though, wasn't he?  A chaperone?)  I guess Maman let her go -out of curiosity about the renovations - which Paloma probably didn't share with her mother after all.  Kakuro is an open, affable fellow, isn't he?  Perhaps he sends off vibes to the tenants, to everyone -  that we can't feel - that he is harmless, and  and godlike.

He even invited the concierge to his place - not to just have a look around - but to dinner!  And what's more - she says YES!  Why did she do that?  You'd think her reflex action would have been to pull back  into her shell - and refuse him -  for any number of reasons.  Concierge's don't have dinner with the rich tenants!!!  But she said yes - without considering - anything!  I guess she really wanted to go - and I don't think it was out of curiosity!

Babi - thank you for your research into still life paintings.  I considered every one, trying to understand their appeal.  I guess I'm like you, Eloise - I prefer people - or landscapes...I prefer life over still life perhaps. 
I know I don't see the Claesz still life as Renée did - this is the very one I believe-

Pieter Claesz still life
 - click picture to enlarge

Admittedly, I'm not hungry - and it was dinner time for her.  She sees it as a slice of life - a meal, wine, a plate of oysters the artist is anticipating as soon as he finishes painting. 
I look at a still life painting  - this one -  as an artistic arrangement, pleasing in placement and color, yes, but something more "contrived" than a desired meal.

I'm reading the quote Eloise left for us to ponder this morning - and maybe I do understand after all -  I'm looking at the arrangement - without desire -

In the scene before our eyes-silent, without life or motion-a time exempt of projects is incarnated, perfection purloined from duration and its weary greed-pleasure without desire, existence without duration, beauty without will. For art is emotion without desire.

I'd love to hear a better interpretation of both the charm of still life painting - and what the author is conveying here - what is it that Renée and Kakuro adore about this particular painting?

I just lost a post on the bathroom episode - will respond to you later this afternoon..

[Laura]

The bathroom episode was funny, but I also felt sorry for Renee in that situation.  She had sheltered herself so much that she was much more intimidated by the toilet than the average person would have been.  As for the bathroom décor, I find carpet in a bathroom odd.  We had carpet in our bathrooms in our rented house in England and we hated it.  Talk about a mold trap!

The still life Monsieur Ozu has in his apartment is more appealing to me than some of the others shown in Babi’s links, but I would prefer something “lighter.”


I thought it was interesting that the author devoted an entire chapter, 16. And Then, to just one sentence:

And then, a summer rain.

I thought of several interpretations of this:

The dinner with Monsieur Ozu was a watershed moment in Renee’s life, and she will talk about her life in segments, before the dinner and after the dinner.

My husband’s grandmother used to call a summer rain shower “a cleansing rain.”  I imagined that Monsieur Ozu was the shower that cleansed Renee of her feelings of inadequacy.

Rain / water provide life, so the summer rain of Monsieur Ozu will allow Renee to grow and flourish.  Maybe Renee will be like the camilla now, visible out in the sun and rain, not like the moss, in the background and unnoticed.

[JoanP]

Babi, Laura - everything about the bathroom episode made me laugh!  Especially the way Renée would edit her remarks - almost using euphemisms - or something course, but finally ending up saying just the right thing.  And I loved the way Kakuro always answered her with equanimity, accepting all of her blurted out questions as if perfectly natural - which I guess, they were good questionsl

But I am wondering as we are laughing, if you are as puzzled as I am at the choice of music accompanying the flush?  Why not Handel's Allelulia Chorus - or something really uplifting?  Why a Requiem Mass? -    Mozart's Confitatus?
It would be startling to hear this music pouring forth as the toilet flushed.  I looked at the translating for the "Confutatis maledictis" - something I think both Kakuro and Renée are quite familiar with -  You might find it interesting to hear this in the bathroom -

Rest thy soul in eternal sleep
heaven waits as the earth gently weeps
for you...

Gone the shadow veiling your eyes
Lost your inner light
All beauty dies

Confutatis maledictis
Flammis acribus addictis:

Voca me cum benedictis
Confutatis maledictis

I am without you now
How can I live?
How can I live on?

Oro supplex et acclinis
Cor contritum quasi cinis

Gere curam mei finis
Oro supplex et acclinis

Eternal sleep...
I weep...
I need to hold on to you
How can I let you go?

Dona eis Requiem

I keep you in my heart

Confutatis maledictis
Flammis acribus addictis:

Voca me cum benedictis
Confutatis maledictis

Despite the awkward moments, the evening ended well - - more shared passions and interests.  I look forward to your explanations of what went on outside the bathroom door - Can you translate the multiple sighs - the ooh ooh oohs - and the tears streaming down Kakuro's cheeks?  Do you see a budding romance?

Laura - wasn't there a refreshing summer rain that fell on Tolstoy's Levin as he was wielding the scythe in the heat of summer?  I like your husband's grandmother's "cleansing rain."

[JudeS]

Oh my.  I am having different thoughts than all of you.

I see in my mind's eye Renee in Beige-a very neutral color , very much like the main color of the still life.  She is dressed up in Beige , not yet ready to commit herself -she is still a STILL LIFE.  there, but not moving.  Afraid to feel, afraid to arouse emotion in her Japanese swain or would be swain.  A person stuck in inaction. A human still life.

The bathroom scene breaks the ice.  We and they are humans.  If we can laugh we have ceased our pose of still life.
Nothing is more freeing than a good laugh. Nothing releases tension like laughter.

This portends good things to come.

[Laura]

JoanP, yes, it did rain on Levin out in the fields with the workers.  I think he rejoiced in it, now that I think about it.

Jude, I love the idea of Renee as a still life!

I do not see a budding romance between Monsieur Ozu and Renee.  I think they will become dear friends.  Weren’t the tears because they were laughing so hard after discussing the bathroom toilet?

[JoanP]

Running a bit late - will be in to comment on that "beige" dress and still life, but first the "gym class" beckons.

Since no one has begged for extra time to discuss the Summer Rain chapters, we'll move on to "Paloma" - but PLEASE, if you haven't already read the book - will you not go beyond page 315 this week!!!  Don't even be tempted to turn the page!!!

On the other hand, if there are still observations you would like to make on any of the pages before 315 - we'd welcome hearing from you!

[Babi]

 I like still lifes, portraits, landscapes...and a very few of the more modern 'isms. The still lifes, to me, have a richness, a sense of a moment captured forever, and that balance that Mr. Uzo defines as 'harmony'. I enjoyed all those examples I found.
  I don't think it the food that was appealing to Renee'.  It was the light in the
picture that first caught her eye, then the richness and, yes, the balance.

  In “What Congruence”  Barbery goes into lecture mode again.  The sum of it all is that she believes what makes a ‘great work’, what makes it timeless, is the balance in the arrangement.  I suspect that also reveals to us a good deal about Muriel Barbery.  'Balance' is important to her.

 Before we got on to "Paloma", there are a couple of things re. Paloma in 'Summer Rain' that I think are important.
    Paloma says her father, ’with his republican soul’,  has inculcated in her the virus of deontology.  Back to the dictionary!  Deontology:  in philosophy, a theory or examination of the nature of moral obligation.  From ‘deon’,= ‘that which is obligatory’. 
  She is shocked, therefore, that her mother’s therapist believes  her threat to spread rumors about him.  It only confirms her view of the ugliness of the world, and turns her back to her conviction of the wisdom of leaving it.

  Then, Paloma does not recognize the inconsistency of her closure in Profound Thought #13. If we have been ‘placed’ her on earth to perform a specific task, then there is something divine involved.  Since obviously not everyone is performing that ‘task’,  there must also be a choice and freedom to make it.

 Finally, before we go, the subjects Mr. Uzo and Renee discussed, including “the irreducibility of culture”.  I do wish she had said more about that, as I have no idea what she means by it.  But I love her perception of  Kakuro Uzo…”…he combines a sort of  childish enthusiasm and candor with the attainments and kindliness of an old sage.”
 It is so rare to see someone who has been able to retain that enthusiasm and candor into old age, and so wonderful when one does.

[Eloise]

Joan, a beige dress reminds me that Renée might want to stay somewhat invisible, unnoticeable. I just looked at the Susan Boyle sensation on Utube and she is wearing a beige dress like the one Renée describes. Beige is definitely not my color.

Babi,    She is shocked, therefore, that her mother’s therapist believes  her threat to spread rumors about him.  It only confirms her view of the ugliness of the world, and turns her back to her conviction of the wisdom of leaving it.

Yes of course, that therapist should have seen through Paloma's tirade. He only had to move a little and that might have satisfied her that he was 'normal'.  Is rigidity a sign of extreme nervousness I wonder? I am not a therapist but it would certainly make me react in some way.

It is so rare to see someone who has been able to retain that enthusiasm and candor into old age, and so wonderful when one does. YES

“the irreducibility of culture”.  I Googled 'exile and the irreducibility of culture' and it is said of the Russian culture in general. For whatever it means, "irréductible" means cannot be reduced.

[JoanP]

Oh don't you see a great resemblance between Renee and Susan Boyle, Eloise - in so many ways!  Thank you for bringing that up today and so fitting as Jude brought up that beige dress!  I bet that Susan didn't borrow that dress for her TV appearance though.

Before moving from the Summer Rain chapters, let's  talk about that beige dress - and then Dr.Theid's shades of autumnal browns and tans...

 I like the comparison of Renée as a still life - in a way, she is "contrived" - carefully put together after years of self-education.  What we see in this still life didn't just happen.  But I am seeing her more as a work in progress rather than a subject frozen in time, incapable of change. Babi - do you think Renee has achieved Balance in her life as a concierge acting as though she understands nothing?
 
I'm glad we're talking about beige dress.  It's borrowed, remember.  It's not something Renée has chosen for the occasion -  I'll bet anything that was Susan Boyle's own dress that she was wearing in talent performance.  OR, maybe she had nothing suitable to wear, and a friend found that one for her?

Before Manuela came up with the dress, I had made a note about what Renée had in her closet - what could she possibly wear to dinner? 
Here were her choices -
1. "a sort of white nuptial meringue buried beneath layers of mothballs"  (is this her wedding dress?)
2. "her everyday concierge dresses"
3. "a lugubrious black pinafore she wears to funerals."

Renée tells Manuela she has decided on the black funereal dress -  (Had she worn the black, she would have fit in with Mozart's Requiem in the bathroom.)  I thought it was kind of sad that these were the only clothes Renée had to wear.  Between her wedding, and funeral, she has lived her life only as a concierge in this building as an inferior to the tenants.

I hadn't thought of the "ooh ooh oohs" in connection with the hilarious bathroom themes-the tears rolling down M. Ozu's face, associated with laughing so hard.  I keep looking for ...more.   For a realization that theirs is a special rapport which is turning into more.  It's good to read there are other ways of looking at what is happening here - you keep this romantic grounded!
Laura, tell me, at least do you see Kakura and Renée growing closer?  Have you totally ruled out romance?  Isn't this refreshing new feeling that washes over her like a summer rain - something that she has never felt with any man before - romance?

[JoanP]

Deontology:  in philosophy, a theory or examination of the nature of moral obligation

Babi, that word goes right up into our vocabulary list - I'm so glad you brought up the fact that Paloma understands  and is appalled (rightfully) when she witnesses Dr. Theid's lack of any such obligation.  I'm thinking that Paloma has some sort of moral obligation to let her mother know the doctor is without scruples.  He's destroying her mother's mental health!

Traudee, you asked about racial undertones in Paloma's description of Dr. Theid's "autumnal"appearance - "dead leaves"  as she described him.  While I don't fully understand the emphasis on the tans- I didn't think she was making a racial comment on the color of his skin - except for his "newly minted Seychelles tan".
[The Seychelles  are a favorite island getaway on the Indian Ocean - for the rich - I'm not speaking  from experience - but I'm sure Dr. Theid can afford to get away to work on his tan frequently - considering what Solange Josse pays him for all those sessions!

Sad, Paloma's views are reinforced after this experience - she doesn't want to be part of such a world -

[Gumtree]

I am still immersed in the medical world and taking each day as it comes and though the knitting (and yes, with Antipodean wools) proceeds apace I am finding it difficult to string a coherent thought together. Your words of comfort have meant so much. Thanks to all...


The comparison between Renee and Susan Boyle is so very apt - beige dresses and all - wish I'd thought of it! -

Both ladies are very definitely 'works in progress'  Renee has been privately slogging away creating the as yet unseen Renee of the mind - Susan has also been slogging away at her singing  - one can't produce a voice such as she has without constant practice. They are both gifted - one with the voice the other with considerable intellect and it may not be too late for either of them.

I am not a fan of the 'still life' - somehow there are always elements within them that appear to be too contrived...like the grapes hanging off the edge of the table, or a knife or tray balanced so precariously that it should fall to the floor - and they are often a little too sombre in the palette choices. But so often the technical  artistry in depiction is sublime and then I question my own lack of appreciation.

I didn't see any racial reference  in the description of the 'shrink' and took the 'Seychelles tan' simply to mean that he has money and opportunity to escape to the sun. Here in the Antipodes    ( at least in West Aust) we call such a tan a 'Rottnest Tan' in reference to a very small holiday island just off our coast. Everyone knows the tan costs  a lot to acquire and that it will wash off in a very short time after we come back to the everyday grind.

[Laura]

Babi said:  But I love her perception of  Kakuro Uzo…”…he combines a sort of  childish enthusiasm and candor with the attainments and kindliness of an old sage.”

I loved that description too, Babi.  I couldn’t help but think of Yoda.  LOL!

JoanP said:  Laura, tell me, at least do you see Kakuro and Renée growing closer?  Have you totally ruled out romance?  Isn't this refreshing new feeling that washes over her like a summer rain - something that she has never felt with any man before - romance?

Kakuro and Renee are growing closer, especially Renee in her trust of him as another human being.  I took the refreshing feeling of the summer rain to be love and appreciation by another human being, something basic we all want and need, but Renee has lacked in her life.

Gumtree, your thoughts seem perfectly coherent to me.  Hang in there!

As we move into the next section, I have two things to say to begin:

Renee and Paloma have finally interacted with one another!  I thought the page would never come!

It is absolutely killing me to not finish a book with only ten pages left to go!

[Babi]

  Yes, I understand what 'irreducible' means, ELOISE, but I can make no sense of it as it is used here.  What does she mean by saying that a culture...Russian or otherwise..is irreducible?  How would one go about 'reducing' a culture? 

No balance yet for Renee', JOANP, but as you say, a work in progress.  As for Paloma telling her Mother Dr. Theid is a fraud, I doubt if her mother would believe it for a moment. After all, her 'therapy' sessions are her favorite topics of conversation and give her a sense of importance. Paloma has shown that she is well aware of this.

GUM, I have to agree that the colors in still lifes..especially the Dutch...are very
somber. I think, tho', that is deliberate done in order to emphasize the light
that draws the eye and attention. And of course, the arrangement is 'arranged' by the artist.  No good Dutch housewife would have left that mess once the meal was over! 

YODA! Thank you for reminding me, LAURA. A wonderful comparison.

Yes, Paloma finally arrives at Renee’s door, thanks to Colombe’s  pique and cowardice and with Mr. Uzo’s previous encouragement.  Renee sees in her  “a trenchant acuity, a chilly wise way in her”,  and concludes with considerable accuracy that Paloma is a 'Judge of Humanity'.

[JoanP]

Babi, do you think that Renee also sees a desperate unhappy child, who has been contemplating suicide.  A Judge of Humanity who happens to find the future futile?

Do you think that Paloma was waiting for an excuse to examine the concierge more closely - that Colombe's request was just what she was waiting for?
Once in, she wants to come back.  I'm trying to figure out her state of mind.  After the appointment with the analyst, this "Judge of Mankind"  has been understandably disillusioned and concludes that "it's time to leave a world where something that moves can reveal something so ugly."

But then there's that conversation with Colombe about the bees - Her comments were  so full of wisdom - and  purpose... from the "Judge"...

"Personally there is only one thing to do:find the task we have been placed upon this earth to do, and accomplish it as best we can, with all our strength...

This is the only way we will ever feel that we have been doing something constructive when death comes to get us."

Death comes to get us - not the other way around?  Do you think Paloma's comes to Madame Michel's to hide out until June 16 - or to find a reason to live?

Laura, it's just a few more days - and I know you will understand then why we are waiting.

Gum, we are right there with you - honored that you are sharing with us during this difficult time.  Prayer, hugs...we're here, each day, thinking of you.

[Laura]

All’s quiet today --- I guess everyone is reading.

I think Paloma was glad to have an excuse to visit the mysterious concierge.  I think she went there looking for a reason to live!

Besides, I may as will admit it: I don’t really feel like dying.  I want to be able to see Madame Michel and Kakuro again, and his unpredictable little great-niece Yoko, and ask them for help (pg. 291).

[Babi]

No, JOANP, I don't think Renee has any idea that Paloma has had suicidal intentions. I think she is simply seeing a very intelligent, observant child who can, and does, form very accurate opinons of the peope around her. Since the shared understanding between Paloma and Mr. Uzo about Renee, I suspect she has been wanting an opportunity to visit  with the concierge. Her curiousity is definitely aroused.

On  pg. 243:   Poor Renee….or is it poor Prof. Barbery?    She does not see the search for beauty  and meaning as the sign of an elevated nature, but  rather as “a primed weapon in the service of a trivial and material goal”.Trivial?  Material?  It is “a consequence without consequence of the subtlety of our cortex…”.  Alas, Renee/Barbery have accepted the view that all of human nature and intuition can be reduced to chemical and neural synapses.  But, “it makes the fufillment of our essential duties more bearable”.   Duties?
If we are no more than the sum of our physical parts, why do we have ‘duties’?   Ah, of course, ..duties are necessary for our survival as a species.  How very dreary.

p.247-8
The universal vs. the singular.   Didn’t Plato postulate that there was a ‘perfect’ universal form, and everything material was merely an imperfect copy of that form?  And  what do Ockham and Plato  mean in their use of the word ‘real’?   By real, do they mean materially, physically existent?  An idea has existence,  surely it is also ‘real’.  Of course we have basic concepts by which we recognize objects, whether the table here, or Plato’s horse.   But I see the ‘idea’, the concept,  as a basic pattern in which the object or creature is formed, not an imperfect copy.  The basic concept does not have the infinite variety which gives everything its interest,  beauty and splendor, so how can it be perfect?

[JoanP]

Hmmm, Laura, yes, it is extremely quiet - which could mean two things...
Perhaps everyone is reading the "Paloma" chapters (up to page 315) - OR  there is the other possibility that folks read BEYOND page 316 and are stunned into silence, fearing they will let something slip unintentionally.

Which is it?  Hopefully we will learn more today after yesterday's silence.

Did you think that was unlike this concierge not only to open the envelope delivered to Colombe - but to read the whole thesis - and to criticize it?  There have been a number of references to moral responsibility - and yet we see many lapses.  Is the author saying that this is the nature of the beast? 
 - We see the psychoanalyst diagnosing the young girl in sound mental health, simply because she makes a veiled threat to ruin his reputation. 

 - We see the young girl keep this from her mother, because her mother probably won't believe her, as Babi says - but what of her moral responsibility?  She concludes that this is how things are in the adult world.  Is she right?  Is this what the author is telling us?

 - We get a look at Colombe's final draft of her Master's Thesis (in Philosophy!) - with hardly a comment on it.  Our self-educated concierge does a detailed critique of the paper on William of Ockham's life work - and finds that Colombe has failed to address the most important issues that William addressed.   What is the author saying about Colombe - no, what is the author, a Professor of Philosophy, saying about Colombe's professor - the entire profession - education in general?

 - and then there is Renée herself - who criticizes Colombe for not using the opportunities given to her - to serve mankind.  Do you think Renée has any obligation at all - to use her acquired knowledge for the common good - or to keep her knowledge to herself for her own enjoyment.

 - and finally, can someone explain to me what happened at the dry cleaners - when Renée went in to pick up the stained beige dress?  Did she know the plum colored dress was not the one she brought in? Someone else's dress?   But took it anyway? She really did that?  How did you understand this incident?

ps.  If you finished the book, please let us know - and we'll figure out how to go on from here.  It's better than silence, really it is!

EDIT - BABI, I was typing away while you were!  Happy to hear from you this morning.  I agree, poor Professor Barbery.  Have we happened on the reason she has turned to writing, over teaching?  Thank you for your comments - will address them later - as I'm running late right now.

[joangrimes]

I have not been able to keep up with my reading because this book is not large print and it is hard for me to read much at a time but I am still reading.  I just want to say that I think the book is wonderful.  That is a change from what i felt for  a while and it seemed to just suddenly happen.

I am not reading your comments here because I am behind in the reading but I will go through the discussion and read all of the comments after I finish the book or if I am able to catch up I will read them then.

Joan Grimes

[Eloise]

Hello everyone. Today I can spend some time at last on the great ideas coming in. Do I detect a sense of hope for Renée and Paloma now that we are learning more about them? I will be back this afternoon. Wonderful posts everybody.

[JudeS]

I will repeat again what I said about the Psychaoanalyst-"He is portrayed as a "Booby".  The whole scene is a total  farce.  Perhaps Opera Buffe is the best comparison.
 
This book is not all of one piece of cloth.  It is the authors first attempt at fiction.  There are places where she succeeds and places where she falls flat on her face. I usually see a book as fairly smooth. I like it or I don't .  This book has excellent elements i.e. the writer shows promise. It also has parts in which I feel she needed to do a rewrite or needed a better editor.

The symbols of the color of her new clothes are meant to move the action or feeling forward in a pseudo-symbolic manner.  It seems so simplistic compared to the attempt at deep philosophic thought that comes and goes as we read along.

On page 251  we have Paloma's take on   her sister's thesis on William Ockhams' "Sum of Logi"c. Now no matter how bright she is she can't possibly analyze this theory and wipe aside all her sister's arguments in one fell swoop of super-dooper deep philosophical thought.  First of all the fact that Colombe is at University and studying Philosophy shocked me and made me wonder why this fact was not mentioned before.

It also made me wonder if perhaps the author is portrayed partially as Colombe who has an annoying younger sister who was hard to live with?  Or is she making fun of all the "stupid" girls who learned  philosophy with her? Or perhaps stupid pupils she has been forced to teach?

Again, I am meeting the author and not her characters. w                                                                                                                                                                                           

[Eloise]

Right Jude, Muriel Barbery is a new novelist but in a link posted earlier she explains herself in more detail and she says how surprised she was that her novel became such an instant best seller.
Again, I am meeting the author and not her characters. I am wondering if it prevents you from enjoying it. In a certain way I feel that authors write about themselves most of the time.  If this novel shows only promise as you say, I wonder how popular her future novels will be because right now this one is a huge success worldwide. Thank you for this fine analysis, it makes one read more in depth.

[straudetwo]

It is school vacation in Massachusetts, and the grandchildren have been here several times.
I haven't had the time to get to the questions in the header, let alone answer posts.  But I have a free so here I am.

First,  I find myself in agreement with Babi and Jude on various points and will get to them.
But first some replies to questions.

JoanP The envelope with the manuscript "is open. Wide open, without ver having been sealed closed . The adhesive strip still has its white protective strip ..."
Renée did NOT actually OPEN  it.  Of course she read it.  This is another built-in opportunity for the author to shine.

I am aware that 'Seychelles' refers to the island archipelago in the Indian Ocean. Well-heeled Europeans started visiting there a few years ago. The islands are named after Jean Moreau de Séchelles, Minister of Finance under king Louis XV of France. Vasco da Gama discovered them.
The 'doctor' could conceivably be a native.  The moniker "fat marron glacé" is yet amother example that Paloma can be as caustic in her remarks as Renée (who refers to Coloombe  as Her Majesty Colombe de la Riffraff (!). This latter is of course another arrow pointed at society by the author.
In fact, the author skewers French society mercilessly in this book, and it is surprising that it became a bestseller there first.  Nota bene, however, there have been critical voices as well.
BTW "a marron glacé is a small confectionary".

There is no evidence that Renée had any idea of Paloma's suicidal thoughts.
Question # 4 needs to be examined more closely, and the 'banlieus' have to be explained.

More later

[straudetwo]

P.S.
The color beige certainly suited Renée.  Manuela liked the dress on her, and so did Kakuro.
But it had not been HER choice.
Nor was the purple dress, which she accepted after the beige one could not be found at the dry clearners'.  She felt remorse, but she walked off with it nonetheless. That dress too was a success on her.

Question # 5.  The only "laconicisms" in this book is the Haiku poetry IMHO. Many other passages are quite dense.

Question # 9.  Kakuro's magic words "You are not your sister"  and "Wew can be anything we want to be"  were Renée's final release.
 
Question # 10.  IMHO class differences have always existed, and class struggles were the underlying cause  for the French and for the Russian revolutions, for example.
Noteworthy in this connection is the essay The Revolt of the Masses by the Spanish philosopher José Ortega y Gasset.

In haste

[JoanP]

We seem to find it easy to accept that Madame Michel does not find anything upsetting or abnormal, certainly not suicidal  in Paloma's behavior and yet find fault with Dr. Theid for sending her out of his office after one conversation.  She had come to him, not because she felt she needed his help, but because her mother had sent her to him.  Rather than cave to her threats, perhaps he really  felt she was wasting his time - and her mother's money.   Is it possible that what we heard from Paloma about his caving in to her threat was simply her  own interpretation?

I'm trying to see him as less of a quack, a "booby" as you put it, Jude.  I want to excuse  his conduct as Paloma was clearly playing games with him.   (Traudee, I still fail to see racial undertones here, honestly.  A "newly minted tan" describing Dr. Theid's skin color - does not indicate to me that he was born in the Seychelles, but rather had just returned from vacation on the Josse family's dime.)

I will concede that Madame Michel did not technically unseal the envelope  containing Colombe's Master's thesis, Traudee,  but she surely read it. 

Jude, wasn't it the concierge who analyzed the thesis?    I'm going to have to look at that again.  I agree, Paloma could not possibly have done so.
But  I agree with you - the very fact that Colombe is studying Philosophy, writing her Master's thesis on William Ockham seemed out of character from what we had seen previously of her.  I had much the same feeling when it was revealed that Paloma, a complete loner, had a best friend.  Suddenly Marguerite is in the picture, Paloma's confidante, visiting Kakuro's apartment with her.

JoanG - take care of those eyes!  Continue to read in slow, brief sessions, just as you have been.  I'm so glad you are enjoying the book.  I am too - though I do agree with what has been said -  there are some awkward moments - and more proof-reading could have caught some of the obvious typos.  I still find many delicious, exquisite moments that more than make up for the rough spots.

[JoanP]

Babi - you hit the nail on the head - Renée sees her acquired knowledge - her education as making   "the fufillment of her  duties more bearable”.   You're right - that is dreary.  And in light of what she said about Colombe and those who have been well educated having an obligation to use their knowledge for the common good - it makes Renée's use of her own knowledge - quite, well, quite selfish, in a way, doesn't it?

Really, is that what happened in the dry cleaners?  They gave her a different dress, the plum-colored one - because they lost the beige one??? I'm finding that hard to believe!

By the way, I was surprised to hear that  you found that Kakuro actually complimented Renée on her appearance in that dress. I must have missed that.  I was looking for a reaction from him after her "makeover" - and was satisfied when there was no reaction, that superficial appearance did not matter to him - it was the real Renée that he was seeing - the rest didn't matter.  She could have been wearing her concierge uniform for all he cared.  That's how I took his lack of comment, at any rate?

[Laura]

Because the envelope with the thesis in it was wide open, I was not surprised that Renee looked in it.  However, I was surprised that she read the whole thing, and delayed getting it to Colombe to do so.  Yes, there are contradictions in thoughts versus behavior in the book.  To me, the thoughts represent some idealized situation that could not be replicated in the real world, and therefore, the real world cannot live up to the expectations of the ideology.


Renee leaving with what she knows is the incorrect dress without alerting the clerk at the dry cleaners had me laughing out loud again at her!  She really is hilarious!  I love her inner thoughts!

To the chapter of my turpitudes I must now add the abduction of a dress that does not belong to me, in place of one stolen from a dead woman, by me.

At first I thought she didn’t want to raise a fuss and just left, but as I read on and found out she wore the dress, I realized her moments hesitation was not about making a fuss, but about whether or not she could get away with taking it and wearing it!  Too funny!  Wrong, but funny!


JoanP said in response to Jude:  … the very fact that Colombe is studying Philosophy, writing her Master's thesis on William Ockham seemed out of character from what we had seen previously of her.  I had much the same feeling when it was revealed that Paloma, a complete loner, had a best friend.  Suddenly Marguerite is in the picture, Paloma's confidante, visiting Kakuro's apartment with her.

We must remember that what we are learning about Renee and Paloma are what they are choosing to reveal to us via their own writings.  Therefore, we are getting an extremely biased view of how they perceive the world and how they feel about things, often their feelings are those in particular moments and are often changing, especially with Paloma.  Yes, those revelations did come as surprising to me too, but I can only imagine what else is going on around Renee and Paloma that we are reading nothing about.

[straudetwo]

Laura Thank you for quoting the phrase regarding the purple dress, I was just looking for it.  The scheduled Final Thoughts period may give us a chance to talk more about the structure of the book as we as readers see it, its raison d'être, so to speak.  

Incidentally, Barbery wrote an earlier novel published in 2000. Titled "Une Gourmandise", it features a food critic (a progenitor of M. Arthens??).  The English translation of that first book is due out later this year, clearly because of the success of the "Elegance of the Hedgehog".

[JoanP]

All the hype about Mme. Barbery's "next"  book, is actually about the publication of "Gourmet Rhapsody" which will be available in the US on August 25,  2009 - but as Traudee said, it was published as "Le Gourmandise"  in 2000.   As Jude pointed out,  the author is just beginning her second career as a writer, and I am really interested to learn  what she has written after Hedgehog, which was published in France in August 2006.  Please let us know if you hear anything about  her latest work.

Traudee, yes, Pierre Arthens is the  same food critic in Gourmandise - a summary -

"In the heart of Paris, in the posh building made famous in The Elegance of the Hedgehog, the greatest food critic in the world, is dying. Revered by some and reviled by many, MonsieurPierre Arthens has been lording it over the world’s most Here, as in The Elegance of the Hedgehog, Muriel Barbery’s story celebrates life’ssimple pleasures and sublime moments while condemning the arrogance
and vulgarity of power"

The translator, Alison Anderson, is the same who translated Hedgehog.  Mme. Barbery must have been satisfied with her work.
Somewhere I've saved another interview with the author, which reveals more about the Hedgehog characters...

[JoanP]

Here are some further revelations  regarding Hedgehog from Elizabeth Floyd Mair, a Times Union freelance writer, with the author-

How did the idea for these characters come to you?

A: Renée, the concierge, was a secondary character in my first novel. I ended up reading some of the chapters of “Gourmet Rhapsody” several years after it had been published — totally by chance, because the book was buried in my library. And as I was reading I recalled something my editor had told me. In the original manuscript, I had Renée talking in a way that was extremely crude, stereotypical; she came across as a caricature of a concierge. My editor said : “You’re a novelist, anything is possible; your concierge could just as well express herself like the Duchess of Guermantes.” I remembered these words and I suddenly had the urge to attempt the voice of a well-read and erudite concierge; I sat down at my desk and wrote the first pages of “Hedgehog.”
As far as Paloma is concerned, she emerged a little bit later and rather by chance during the rewriting. My husband (and first reader) found the character interesting and suggested I give her a voice.

Q: When you were writing, did you move back and forth between the two characters after a few pages, the way the book does? Or did you spend more time with each character before returning to the other?

A: Well, I wrote more than two hundred pages in which there was a single voice, that of Renée. Then Paloma emerged. I then changed the voice so as to insert the new chapters of the young girl between those of the concierge. Finally, I had almost finished using this technique of alternating voices. Only a few chapters from the end did I begin writing both characters concurrently.
Interview conducted by Elizabeth Floyd Mair

I sensed that, did you - that the author was writing the two narrators concurrently at the end?  Especially when she got down to the similar motivations of each - when she spoke about the reason why kids burn cars -

Laura, of course you are right, the revelations are coming from the two narrators, who choose to relate incidents of their lives in their own good time...it doesn't really matter - to them- if we were prepared when they revealed new information! 

Traudee, is there anything you would like to say about the structure of the book now, rather than wait?  Are you refraining out of a concern that you may reveal the final pages?