The Architect's Apprentice: A Novel by Elif Shafak Prediscussion

[BarbStAubrey]

Tartışmalarımıza Hoş Geldiniz (Welcome to our Discussion) A historical novel, brimming with all the intrigue, romance, beauty, power, pageantry and brutality of the Sixteenth century told through the eyes of Jahan, the apprentice to Sinan, the Architect and Mahout to the white elephant, gift to the Salton. “I work to honour the divine gift. Every artisan and artist enters into a covenant with the divine.” Sinan, Architect for three Sultans Discussion Schedule: Mon. & Tues., September 17 & 18.....To page 18 Tuesday, September 18...........Before the Master Tuesday, September 25...........The Master Monday October 1.....................The Dome - to page 256 Monday October 8.....................The Dome - page 257 to 331 Monday October 15...................After the Master

Helpful Links for reading and watching

“People must be walking now across the courtyards of the mosques, not knowing, not seeing.”

• Mosque of Selim II, Edirne (includes naming and explaining all architectural parts of a Mosque)
• A (6 min) story of Suleiman the Magnificent.
• 16th Century Ottoman, Safavid and Mughal, the three 'Gun-Power Empires' (10 min)
• Harem - How the Harem functions and became a Power Center within the Sultan's Imperial government
• Seven part (approx. 15 min each) story of Suleiman the Magnificent
• Discovery Channel documentary (5 hour) The History of the Ottoman
• Sufism - Islamic Mysticism (6 min)
• Janissaries (2 min)
• Janissaries the elite corps of the Sultan
• Mimar Sinan (2 min)
• Sinan, a short bio with links to his accomplishments
• Elif Safak, author

Discussion Leaders: BarbStAubrey

[BarbStAubrey]

So far instance after instance where death is around the corner - it is as if death is chasing every scene - Jahan's story of how he came to the Palace is a relief and yet, lurking in the background there is still this overcast of being caught.

What is this backdrop of death trying to tell us in this story?

Death in a story is usually the symbol for rebirth - Will we be seeing the rebirth of Jahan or the rebirth of Istanbul or of the Salton or of any of the characters we have met so far?

Or maybe the threat of death is letting us know there is powerful hand running the show regardless earthly power. We see the hand of death even in the Palace -

What do you think - do you feel the hand of death lurking in these scenes as you are reading?

[bellamarie]

Barb, 

Bellamarie you comments on the reference to the Bible had me curious - earlier there was the reference to the two mothers and who cared about the child that was destined to be split - well it came together - I think this is Shafak's way of subtlety letting us know that the Port is a Portuguese stronghold - This is the staging area in India that Portugal fought for several times and finally won and is their jump off place to the entire Asian coastline.

Yes, I was discussing this with my hubby at the breakfast table this morning.  I remembered the part where the Captain finds Jahan and Gurab, and says he will decide which should stay to tend to Chota.  It immediately made me think of this:

The Judgement of Solomon

1 Kings 3:16–28 recounts that two mothers living in the same house, each the mother of an infant son, came to Solomon. One of the babies had been smothered, and each claimed the remaining boy as her own. Calling for a sword, Solomon declared his judgment: the baby would be cut in two, each woman to receive half. One mother did not contest the ruling, declaring that if she could not have the baby then neither of them could, but the other begged Solomon, "Give the baby to her, just don't kill him!"

The king declared the second woman the true mother, as a mother would even give up her baby if that was necessary to save its life. This judgment became known throughout all of Israel and was considered an example of profound wisdom.

The Captain could see that Jahan cared dearly for Chota, so both boys were left to stay.

Jonathan, So, Captain Gaveth does return for his treasures he expects Jahan to have stolen for him.  Oh dear, what ever will happen if he does not have the goods?

Barb,  Yes, there is a backdrop of death, Chota could have died when he was birthed due to not being able to reach his mother's milk.  Jahan could have been killed had Sinan not saved him with an alibi, sacks full of dead young boys, the sufi and his nine disciples were hanged, and now we have tons of soldiers being killed in the war.  But in life there is always death, lurking somewhere.  Just this summer, I had four deaths, of either family or friends.   

I suspect if there is a semblance for death, it shows how easily life can be taken, due to circumstances either beyond our own means, or other wise.  Death in the Bible certainly does not mean the end, but rather a new life, everlasting.  It will be interesting to see where this takes us.

[PatH]

I see a  backdrop, of cruelty, fear, and harsh, arbitrary authority on one side, but in contrast, there is in some of the characters a gentleness, kindness and goodness.  There is amazing splendor, and terrible poverty, fierce loyalty and scheming, plotting, and jockeying for favor.

It's a rich and colorful tapestry, and I'm sure glad I don't live in it.

[BarbStAubrey]

Hi Pat, yes, you nailed it - extremes on both sides of the morality line. We never do get an accurate picture of life today in the middle east but I am wondering if these extremes are still the way of things. Turkey's leadership seems to be less so but I wonder about some of these Islamic Gulf nations. The news from and about the areas seems to be more about showing life to fit our politicized narrative.

[BarbStAubrey]

Now I do not know what to think - trying to get a handle on the word delibashlar on page 74 - looked up definition, meaning and translation - this is all I get - part 1 and part 2

Here is part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3_ESU5oZ78

[BarbStAubrey]

Wow - evidently "The Battle of Mohács was one of the most consequential battles in Central European history. It was fought on 29 August 1526 near Mohács, Kingdom of Hungary, between the forces of the Kingdom of Hungary, led by Louis II, and those of the Ottoman Empire, led by Suleiman the Magnificent."

http://epicworldhistory.blogspot.com/2012/05/battle-of-mohacs.html

Again - never heard of it and here it divided Hungary in half - this has to be the basis for the Bosnian war with Muslims against Christians - difference - during current history the Muslims are in the minority - this war is probably what set up this grudge that was buried deep but still alive. Reading further it was a war that strengthened both sides because the Hapsburg Kingdom represented the Christian side and the Hapsburg's, as a result of this war strengthened their position of control over Central Europe. 

A nice article with illustrations of elephants in battle through history
http://www.articlesonhistory.com/index/the-war-elephant-through-history

[BarbStAubrey]

Janinissari Helberdiers

[BarbStAubrey]

The first bridge on the Horn, built by Byzantine Emperor Justinian the Great, can be seen near the Theodosian Walls at the western end of the city (see upper right) in this rendering of old Constantinople.

[BarbStAubrey]

aha the Black Bogdania is what today we call Moldavia -  "Moldavia borders on Ukraine in the northeast and on Walachia in the south. In Romania it comprises roughly the modern administrative divisions of Bacău, Galaţi, and Iaşi. Suceava and Iaşi, its historic capitals, and Galaţi, its port on the Danube, are the chief cities. Moldavia, a fertile plain drained by the Siretul, is the granary of Romania."

"Moldavia reached its height under Stephen the Great (1457–1504), who in 1475 routed the Turks, but in 1504 it became tributary to the sultans. Although it was frequently occupied by foreign powers in the continuous wars among the Ottoman Empire, Austria, Transylvania, Poland, and Russia, Moldavia remained under the Ottoman Empire."

Well no wonder this recent diaspora from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan headed from landing in Greece up through these nations - there is a long history of Muslims holding and battling and settling in this area of eastern Europe. And then Turkey sided with Germany during WWI so that was a match - it was not just the success of the German economy that drew those fleeing the Middle East - there was an historical relationship dating back to the early nineteenth century.

Whereas, in the sixteenth Century the area we call Germany was still various principalities - it was not till the eighteenth century that Prussia went to war with Saxony and other areas including Austria creating what we call Germany today. And so during the sixteenth century Hungary was 'the' strong advisory representing Christian Europe rather than Germany.

Interesting - never learned in school about the early adversarial relationship between Muslims and Christians in Europe   

.

[Jonathan]

Thanks, Barb, for all the wonderful links to the grand backdrop of history in which our story is set. Overwhelming. What a clash of civilizations. How exciting for someone like Jahan to find himself in such a time and place. But he's hardly aware of it. He longs to meet the girl who will love his winning smile, as his mother would have him believe. He's not much for looks. And when he does get his hands on some of the Sultan's diamonds and emeralds it will set him up for the good life, back in Hindustan. Life in the Palace is too hazardous.

[BarbStAubrey]

Glad you enjoyed the links Jonathan - so far we have not read about Jahan and jewels - sounds like maybe in the next section is where we will get into how Jahan handles himself if he is in a position to nab some jewels - looking forward to it.

In the meantime I think we have finished reading this first section along with those first 18 pages that introduced us to the story when Jahan was in his middle years - We moved up discussing the next section to Tuesday - probably we could have moved it up even further but we need to give the others a chance to comment so let's hold off and do The Master starting Tuesday

Getting on with the story is how this book pulls us in. But, so early in our read I hate to rush those who we have not heard from yet. In the meantime the one thing that I'm curious about is looking at how the atmosphere or tone of telling the story is different between those first 18 pages and this section Before The Master

Seems to me there was more description of the night, the grounds and the rooms making innate things like the wind, magical. Where as in this first section Before the Master Jahan tells his story in both India and his experiences on the way to war as a straight-on story of the actions taken.

I do not know about y'all but I have learned tons so far reading this and also watching the various videos related to the story - I do not know about y'alls knowledge or education about this part of the world but mine, except for current news, pretty much ended with the end of the Crusades - in fact I had to look up the difference between Saladin and Suleiman - yep I thought they were one and the same till we started this read.

Had you read anything or learn in your younger years any of this history about Istanbul or these wars between the Ottoman Empire and Christian Empires?  How about did you know about the use of elephants in war?

As to these buildings, the only ones I heard about was the Taj in India that I did not even know where it was located in India and the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople mostly because we were taught how it was originally a Christian Church and now a Mosque. I chuckle, we make a fuss over non-partisanship in journalism but never realized the partisanship in education or at least mine.

[bellamarie]

Barb,

Had you read anything or learn in your younger years any of this history about Istanbul or these wars between the Ottoman Empire and Christian Empires?  How about did you know about the use of elephants in war?

No, I don't ever remember learning anything what so ever on the history about Istanbul.  In my years in school all I do remember is American History being taught.  No, I had never heard of elephants being used in wars. 

Barb, thank you for all the pictures and links, that give us a better picture and understanding of the places and happenings.

PatH.,  Rich and colorful tapestry indeed, and I sure am glad I don't live in it as well.  But it surely is capturing my interest.  I would never have read this book, had it not been for our book club discussing. 

[ANNIE]

Barb, I seem to remember Brunileschis Dome! I will look up the author’s name.  Might be in our archives!  Looking now!

[ANNIE]

I looked at the Archives but couldn’t find that title.  Guess I wii Google it.

[ANNIE]

Barb, I sent you a link about touring the Dome. I don’t know when we read the book but will get the author’s name in a minute. 

[ANNIE]

Author was Ross King and the title is “Brunelleschi’s Dome: How a Genius Changed the Building of
”
Joan Grimes had visited Florence with one of her student travel classes.  I forget who led the discussion but we all enjoyed it.

[PatH]

I found it:
http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/nonfiction/BrunelleschisDome.html

We did it in December/January of 2004, and Jonathan led it.  I was new at the time, got the book, but didn't have time to participate.  You'll need your most powerful glasses if you want to read that tiny print.

[BarbStAubrey]

Yes, Yes so glad you found it Pat - Johnathan's discussion on Brunelleschi's Dome - and welcome Annie - so glad you found us in this discussion -

Interesting - this article on "Building Construction" from the Encyclopedia Britannica exemplifying the problem why we never heard of the buildings in Istanbul or India where dome ceilings were prolific - this article about the developing dome ceiling architecture is focused on Rome as the center of power and the example of Gothic architecture that was either copied or rejected as the dome became the challenge

https://www.britannica.com/technology/building-construction/The-Renaissance

Looks like in the west the first dome was a bell tower in Florence followed by Brunelleschi's Dome which was built in 1420 long before Sinan was building by a bit over 100 years - However, The Hagia Sophia, is a domed monument originally built as a cathedral in Istanbul, during the sixth century A.D.

Brunelleshchi's Domed Church - Basilica di Santa Maria del Fiore


Hagia Sophia began in A.D. 532

[BarbStAubrey]

Annie thanks for bringing attention to that discussion - talk about names from the past - Joan Grimes and so many others. What a monument to literature did Ginny and Joan Pearson build - They were the two who started all of this over 20 years ago - there may have been a third but do not remember.

[Frybabe]

If ever I had gone to Turkey, the two places I most wanted to see were the Hagia Sophia and Topkapi Palace.
I am sure it has been added on to over the years, but here is a lovely picture of Topkapi now.
http://topkapisarayi.gov.tr/en Topkapi was built before Sinan's time, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of Topkapi was added to or remodeled by him. Maybe we will find out later in the book.

[Jonathan]

Thanks for the reminder, Frybabe. About the Topkapi. Do you remember the movie? With Peter Usinov? I have it somewhere in the house. I must look for it.

Barb, I could think of you making a good third in this splendid book club of ours. Ella and Harold led so many discussions. I always regretted not finishing the Brunelleschi discussion. A good read. I was brought a DVD on the Dome just this summer as a souvenir. What a genius. And here we have the young Jahan drawing and sketching and imagining improvements to the Mufti's mansion. And taking note of the jewellry worn by the princess and her mother. This is very promising.

Her mother, Khurrem, is of couse the notorious Roxelana.

[PatH]

Frybabe, looking at that picture of Topkapi, I could believe it had been added onto more than once.  Quite a rabbit warren.

Bellamarie, I don't remember ever learning anything about the Ottoman Empire at the time of the book.  Can't remember whether I learned about the Crusades in school or just from all the fiction I read involving them.  But we did learn about an earlier use of elephants in war--Hannibal brought them across the alps with his army to attack the Romans.

[BarbStAubrey]

Here is another tidbit about Istanbul/Constantinople from more ancient times, mentioned in the link showing the first bridge - Theodosius’ Walls, built during the 5th century to protect Istanbul, after the Goths were successful taking Rome.

https://www.ancient.eu/Theodosian_Walls/

[bellamarie]

I'm so surprised to learn elephants were used in wars.  They are such large, slower moving animals, compared to horses, I would expect them to be easy targets. I would think it would be a sure bet they would be killed. 

[BarbStAubrey]

From what I've read Bellamarie the advantage was to panic horses and scare the opposing troops - they also were like towers with these box like contraptions holding several archers shooting down on the opposing army - if the opposing soldiers got too close the elephant would knock them over and trample them to death - however throwing lances took down an elephant - Even if I had seen an elephant before a battle the bellowing charging elephant would be enough to rattle me.

http://www.articlesonhistory.com/index/the-war-elephant-through-history

[bellamarie]

Barb thanks for the link.  This is so very sad.

The Disadvantages of using War Elephants
While the use of war elephants was often a very beneficial use of domesticated animals in history, it also brought with it risks for an army employing them and when things went wrong, the results could be dire. During a battle, they could easily be wounded by iron spikes that were either in heavy wooden frames or wound through chains. In modern warfare, the equivalent to working with these animals could be said to be the use of armoured vehicles however when they get damaged, they tend to just stop.

These ‘weapons’ from the animal kingdom on the other hand are a different story and when an elephant was injured or lost its driver, then it would often become uncontrollable. They could end up killing or wounding large numbers of men from the ranks they were supposed to be helping, indiscriminately trampling on anyone who got in their way. Sometimes, riders would carry large hammer and chisel type tools in order to kill the animal if it appeared that it might lose control; the chisel would be driven into a point on the back of the head, stopping the elephant in its tracks before it could run amok.

I am off to read the next section so we can begin discussing it tomorrow.  Ya'll have a great day! 

[Jonathan]

How very interesting to read about the use of elephants in war. It has me wondering why Jahan didn't seek glory on the battlefield in a military career, rather than architecture. It looks like he's given an opportunity. Were these milk brothers too timid? To be born not tall enough to reach your mother's teat must have been discouraging. I can't remember, but some early reading must have left me with the dread of being trampled by an elephant.

[BarbStAubrey]

Sinan - The Master

[BarbStAubrey]

Not the construction across the Pruth however, another bridge build some years later.

Stari Most

In 1557, Suleiman the Magnificent realized strategic position of Mostar and ordered construction of a new, stone bridge. Order fell on Mimar Hayruddin, student of chief Ottoman architect. Mimar Sinan, under the threat of death if construction does not succeeds. Construction lasted for nine years. When the bridge was finished it was the bridge with a widest arch in the world at that time. It had no foundations on which to lean. Just abutments of limestone, which secure bridge to the walls of the cliffs. Construction was supervised by Karagoz Mehmet Bey, Sultan Suleyman's son-in-law.

[BarbStAubrey]

The Story of Seth - 12 minutes
Seth (Shith) was born to Adam and Eve, after Cain killed Abel. God gave the Revelation to Seth after the death of Adam. God revealed 50 booklets to Seth, as narrated by Ibn Hibban that Abu Dharr al-Ghifariyy heard this from Prophet Muhammad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee6qv9oOkyA

[BarbStAubrey]

Have you ever destroyed something you made just to remake it so it would be better than the earlier try?

[bellamarie]

I keep noticing that Jahan seems to always be in the right place at the right time, or so it appears the wrong place at the wrong time, yet fate steps in and saves him from his near demise.  The Captain saved him on the ship, yet has now come back wanting jewels and money.  The Sultana wants Chota to perform at the celebration, and things go awry, again fate steps in, and instead of the elephant's unruly behavior being punished, it brought laughter to the Sultan Suleiman by embarrassing The Grand Vizier when he took his turban off of his head, so he is saved from any banishment.  Poor Jahan, took an arrow pierced to his shoulder, yet Sinan visits him, and offers to get him in the finest school, so he can be educated to become his apprentice. 

So, I ask each of you . . . have you throughout your life, had that one person, who seemed to give you the edge you needed in life, to accomplish something you never even knew you were capable of achieving, like Jahan has with Sinan?

I never went to college, I married a year out of high school, and had my daughter a year later.  I was a stay at home Mom, and when my third child was entering Kindergarten I had no idea how I would fill my days.  I had worked a few part time jobs along the way, but now I found myself wondering what was next for me.  I began volunteering at my children's Catholic elementary school, and the principal Sr. Myra and I became fast friends.  I suppose me always saying, yes, to everything she asked me to help her with had a lot to do with us spending much time together.  One day she decided she wanted to take me and my friend the other volunteer Mom out to lunch.  At this very swanky restaurant, she asked me if I would consider teaching CCD (religion class).  I expressed I had no formal college education.  She replied, "You don't need a college education, you have what many don't, the true passion for our faith."  Well, needless to say, I began teaching first grade CCD the following year, and then a few years later she promoted me to a sacramental grade, eighth grade Confirmation.  Along the way our PTO group had been approaching her to begin a computer lab in the school, since technology was coming fast and furious in schools.  The mothers were having a hard time convincing Sr. Myra this was necessary, so since they knew I was good friends with her they asked if I would talk with her.  I approached her one on one, told her the reasons why computers would benefit the students who were not only struggling in certain subjects, but also those who were advanced in their grade level, and of course those in between.  I had a daughter needing more audio help in learning, and a son who was a few grades ahead of his grade level who would seem bored after completing his class work.  Sr. Myra listened intently then said, "I am willing to begin this program only if YOU will be the one to help me set it up."  Oh dear, I felt like Jahan when Sinan told him he would send him to the finest school to learn all he needed to become an architect.  Sr. Myra told me, much like Sinan told Jahan,

pg. 114 "All you need to do to climb up is to work hard." 

Work hard I did, all summer learning about computers, and all the different educational programs on those square floppy disks.  By the end of summer, our computers were purchased, our small lab was set up and ready to go!

Sixteen years later, when I retired to open my in home day care business, I had one of the finest elementary labs in the Toledo diocese, and city.  I had gone to workshops, and learned more about computers and programming, to the point of being asked to teach the high school teacher workshop at our local university. 

It took just one woman to see in me, what I did not see in myself. 

Like Jahan, I was from a very low income family, my father was killed by a train when I was only three years old, and I had a horrible abusive step father.  I had a lot of fear and anger inside me, but my faith and love of God outweighed everything else.  I too needed to learn the important lesson Sinan was teaching Jahan when he said:

pg. 114 " but you must let go of the past,"  "Resentment is a cage, talent is a captured bird. Break the cage, let the bird take off an soar high.  Architecture is a mirror that reflects the harmony and balance present in the universe.  If you do not foster these qualities in your heart, you cannot build."  His cheeks burning, Jahan said, "I don't understand. . . Why do you help me?"  "When I was about your age, I was fortunate enough to have a good master.  He is long dead, may God have mercy on his soul.  The only way I can pay him back is by helping other," Sinan said.

I am still teaching CCD on Wednesday evenings, and I hope I can pay Sr. Myra back, by helping other. 

[BarbStAubrey]

Interesting thoughts and questions you pose Bellamarie as you reflect on your own life - It appears, like Jahan, others have believed in you more than you believed or even saw valuable qualities in your-self - a gift to be sure.

I like this section so far (I have not finished reading) because the tone reminds me of the way with words Elif Shafak used in those first 18 pages - far more poetic and expressive than Before The Master.

[Jonathan]

What a strange tale. And what a wonderful post, Bellamarie. And just like that I realized what's going on, in the story. Sinan sees an architect in the boy. The ship captain wants to make a thief out of him. His stepfather has taught him to hate. The elephant is bringing out strong feelings in the boy. And I get the impression that the Sultana will also see something useful in him. Thanks for the tip.

[bellamarie]

I especially like this....

pg. 125  Sinan did not seem to mind these beliefs, though he clearly did not share them.  Even so, Jahan would discover that he was superstitious in his own way.  He had a talisman that he wore all the time.  Two circles, one inside the other, both made of leather, one light, one dark.  He fasted for three days before he embarked on a design.  Upon finishing it, no matter how great the building, he would leave within it a flaw__a tile placed the wrong side up, an upended stone or a marble-chipped on the edge.  He made sure the defect was there, visible to the knowing eye, invisible to the public.  Only God was perfect.

Could this be the secret we are searching for, "the Centre of the Universe."

Jonathan, my fear is that the Princess Mihrimah, while smitten with Jahan, and he her, could be his downfall, if he is not careful.  Some things are not always attainable.  As the famous Virgil wrote, Love conquers all, may be poetic, but we know love can also destroy a person.  Hence, Romeo & Juliet.

[Jonathan]

'Could this be the secret we are searching for, "the Centre of the Universe." '

Perhaps you're right, Bellamarie. Both architect and apprentice are searching for it. Perhaps it's the architect's Holy Grail, Golden Fleece, or something of that nature. Perhaps we're going for the meaning of Art. Isn't this beginning to look like a 'bildungs roman', the story of Jahan's education, in both love and learning. He's put onto Dante. Then it's a flying visit to Rome and an interview with Michelangelo. Beauty and love come to him in the form of Mihrimah. And yet, sometimes he gets homesick and wants to go back to Hindustan.

The book is growing on me. I don't want it to end. It's fun both to dwell on a page and then to turn it. Those wild Arabian Nights.

Jahan amuses Mihrimah. She's fond of the elephant.

[bellamarie]

I have not finished reading this section yet, I am up to pg. 145.  They have finally completed the mosque for the Sultan Siueimaniye. 

Now as he stood admiring the dome they had built on four giant piers, seeing it for the thousandth time but almost seeing it anew, he felt the same thing.  The dome had blended with the firmament above.  He fell on his knees, without a care as to who might be watching him.  He lay down on the carpet, eyes closed, arms and legs open wide, once again that boy under the birch trees.  Alone in the mosque, only a dot in this vast expanse, Jahan could think only of the world as an enormous building site.  While the master and the apprentices had been raising this mosque, the universe had been constructing their fate.  Never before had he thought of God as an architect.  Christians, Jews, Muslims, Zoroastrians and people of myriad faiths and creeds lived under the same invisible dome.  For the eye could see, architecture was everywhere.

Hence, with a stolen rosary in his hand and an inexplicable gratitude in his heart, full of conflicts and confusions, under the majestic dome of Suleimaniye Mosque, Jahan stood, a most intelligent animal-tamer an a most perplexed apprentice.  Time, too, stopped with him.  It seemed to him that in that instant he had unknowingly, come a step closer to the centre of the universe.

Jonathan, 

Perhaps it's the architect's Holy Grail, Golden Fleece, or something of that nature.

Holy Grail indeed!  You got me thinking.....  The Holy Grail has always been sought after, we have movies, legends, books, etc., all about possessing The Holy Grail.  Why?  What is it they feel they will possess once this is in their possession?  Do they see it as a special power?  Do they think since it was the chalice that held Jesus' blood at the Last Supper it will make them more holy?  Do they think owning it, is a feat since it represents a part of Jesus the Son of God?

The Holy Grail is traditionally thought to be the cup that Jesus Christ drank from at the Last Supper and that Joseph of Arimathea used to collect Jesus's blood at his crucifixion. From ancient legends to contemporary movies, the Holy Grail has been an object of mystery and fascination for centuries.



I see this book more about a journey of faith, family, friendship, fortune and future.  Jahan is learning not only to become an apprentice in architecture, but he is learning to become a believer in God, and how reaching the center of the universe, he will finally have learned the true meaning of life.  Ultimately, for me personally, I feel it's reaching Heaven, paradise, the ultimate centre of the universe.

I especially love how Sinan was willing to take all blame if anything went wrong building the mosque, and was going to give all rewards to those who helped build it, when it was finished and a success. He had faith in God that it would all turn out, it was easy to make them this promise.

[PatH]

I was traveling yesterday, and packing the day before, so have only read half of the current section.

Bellamarie, so the book has a special relevance for you, and your comments clarified the role of a mentor in my mind.  He sees the qualities in his protegee, maybe not recognized or believed in by the p himself, and helps the p to recognize and believe in them, then gives the p the tools to make the most of these qualities.

[BarbStAubrey]

MY oh my great posts - look I need the day - did something really dumb this morning - mosquitoes are so bad and here they are dangerous - so I set off one of those canned bombs that kills bugs and whatever in the world when I pressed the tab it shot right up on my face and arms - immediately took shower but too late - I am so allergic to any kind of bug killer and so I've been on everything in my emergency kit - I should be fine by this evening or tonight - these things usually only last 8 hours.

Fabulous thoughts and posts - be back later - another from the first exchange with Bellamarie and Jonathan - reminds me the often argued, Fate versus controlling your Destiny.

So glad the center of the universe is part of this section of the book - OK till later...